Add a separate Deathmatch queue for Battlegrounds!

MurderMostFoul

ZOS,

I don't really hate anything about these patch notes. However, this change needs to be made as well. Practically everyone who plays battlegrounds wants this to happen. It'll benefit the players who want to just focus on player versus player combat, allowing them to choose Deathmatch. It'll help the players who prefer objective modes, by removing the players from those modes that ignore the objectives and just go for kills.

Battlegrounds community has spoken loud and clear on this and I can't imagine it would be a terribly difficult change. Please show us that you are listening and at the very least respond to this request.

trackdemon5512

And further split a player base from engaging in all BG modes. This is what got us to where we are today, catering to a small minority of die hards that are super focused on one type of play essentially disenfranchising every other player. It’s not like this subset hasn’t already tried to turn other BG modes into kill-fests.

There just aren’t enough active BG players to do this properly. You’ll basically change the random bg into a guaranteed deathmatch every time as you’ll never fill flag games except with the same small group of ppl.

Minyassa

Please, yes. It's clearly upsetting for both groups of players. There's no point in forcing two such wildly opposing play styles into the same games, it just poisons the community.

JobooAGS

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

And further split a player base from engaging in all BG modes. This is what got us to where we are today, catering to a small minority of die hards that are super focused on one type of play essentially disenfranchising every other player. It’s not like this subset hasn’t already tried to turn other BG modes into kill-fests.

There just aren’t enough active BG players to do this properly. You’ll basically change the random bg into a guaranteed deathmatch every time as you’ll never fill flag games except with the same small group of ppl.

Have fun with deathmatchers entirely ignoring objective and go on mindless killing while you complain about them not capping flags then

MurderMostFoul

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

And further split a player base from engaging in all BG modes. This is what got us to where we are today, catering to a small minority of die hards that are super focused on one type of play essentially disenfranchising every other player. It’s not like this subset hasn’t already tried to turn other BG modes into kill-fests.

There just aren’t enough active BG players to do this properly. You’ll basically change the random bg into a guaranteed deathmatch every time as you’ll never fill flag games except with the same small group of ppl.

I think the current BG population (Plus players who return because they can finally pick deathmatch) could easily support these four queues:

-Group Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

Daily bonus being attached to the objective queues would hopefully help keep a decent number of players cycling in. Worst case scenario, the objective queues struggle to make matches. But what does that mean? It means that the majority of players are getting exactly what they want, the ability to play Deathmatch on demand. I don't think that's a bad thing.

sabresandiego_ESO

This is the most important change that needs to happen. I ignore the objective in every single game and so do many other deathmatch players who are forced into these game modes.

Jameson18

Or... hear me out for a second...

You just play DM no matter what. Your team loses, and your MMR doesn't continue to climb. Thus leading to more DM with nice KB ratios!

(lol).

MurderMostFoul

I for one would gladly wait twice as long for matches to be made, over having to play four or five matches to get the game mode I want.

Viewsfrom6ix

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

And further split a player base from engaging in all BG modes. This is what got us to where we are today, catering to a small minority of die hards that are super focused on one type of play essentially disenfranchising every other player. It’s not like this subset hasn’t already tried to turn other BG modes into kill-fests.

There just aren’t enough active BG players to do this properly. You’ll basically change the random bg into a guaranteed deathmatch every time as you’ll never fill flag games except with the same small group of ppl.

I think the current BG population (Plus players who return because they can finally pick deathmatch) could easily support these four queues:

-Group Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

Daily bonus being attached to the objective queues would hopefully help keep a decent number of players cycling in. Worst case scenario, the objective queues struggle to make matches. But what does that mean? It means that the majority of players are getting exactly what they want, the ability to play Deathmatch on demand. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I definitely agree with adding a DM queue but spliting it into 4 queues will not work. The BG population isn't high enough to support that. It'll have to be only 2 queues, DM and objective. Whether or not it is group or solo for both, I don't really care.

gariondavey

Jameson18 wrote: »

Or... hear me out for a second...

You just play DM no matter what. Your team loses, and your MMR doesn't continue to climb. Thus leading to more DM with nice KB ratios!

(lol).

Mmr is just games played, not dependent on wins.

sabresandiego_ESO

There should be only two ques. But one should be deathmatch only. I don’t care which is group and which is solo, but this needs to happen.

MurderMostFoul

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

And further split a player base from engaging in all BG modes. This is what got us to where we are today, catering to a small minority of die hards that are super focused on one type of play essentially disenfranchising every other player. It’s not like this subset hasn’t already tried to turn other BG modes into kill-fests.

There just aren’t enough active BG players to do this properly. You’ll basically change the random bg into a guaranteed deathmatch every time as you’ll never fill flag games except with the same small group of ppl.

I think the current BG population (Plus players who return because they can finally pick deathmatch) could easily support these four queues:

-Group Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

Daily bonus being attached to the objective queues would hopefully help keep a decent number of players cycling in. Worst case scenario, the objective queues struggle to make matches. But what does that mean? It means that the majority of players are getting exactly what they want, the ability to play Deathmatch on demand. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I definitely agree with adding a DM queue but spliting it into 4 queues will not work. The BG population isn't high enough to support that. It'll have to be only 2 queues, DM and objective. Whether or not it is group or solo for both, I don't really care.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There should be only two ques. But one should be deathmatch only. I don’t care which is group and which is solo, but this needs to happen.

What about:

-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

?

Only split the more popular queue.

Viewsfrom6ix

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

And further split a player base from engaging in all BG modes. This is what got us to where we are today, catering to a small minority of die hards that are super focused on one type of play essentially disenfranchising every other player. It’s not like this subset hasn’t already tried to turn other BG modes into kill-fests.

There just aren’t enough active BG players to do this properly. You’ll basically change the random bg into a guaranteed deathmatch every time as you’ll never fill flag games except with the same small group of ppl.

I think the current BG population (Plus players who return because they can finally pick deathmatch) could easily support these four queues:

-Group Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

Daily bonus being attached to the objective queues would hopefully help keep a decent number of players cycling in. Worst case scenario, the objective queues struggle to make matches. But what does that mean? It means that the majority of players are getting exactly what they want, the ability to play Deathmatch on demand. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I definitely agree with adding a DM queue but spliting it into 4 queues will not work. The BG population isn't high enough to support that. It'll have to be only 2 queues, DM and objective. Whether or not it is group or solo for both, I don't really care.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There should be only two ques. But one should be deathmatch only. I don’t care which is group and which is solo, but this needs to happen.

What about:

-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

?

Only split the more popular queue.

It could possibly work but that is entirely up to ZOS to figure out what the right balance is since only they have the data. Enough options but also short enough queue times.

Magio_

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

you’ll never fill flag games

Why is this a bad thing? The game shouldn't force people to play game modes they don't want to play. Flag games are boring and clearly the majority of the BG population agrees.

Even an objective gamer like yourself can't deny that the only queues that will die are objective mode queues, and for good reason. They're straight garbage.

Yeah, adding more queues will split the playerbase, but we know the vast majority will go to Deathmatch queues. Dead game modes should just be scrapped.

Tell me one reason why it's a good idea to keep a dead game mode alive artificially by forcing people that don't want to be there to queue into it?

gariondavey

Solo random
Dm group

Make it so

vesselwiththepestle

I'd prefer a no proc queue.

Kusto

What I would like Zos to do is to change the BG queue default to solo. When you open the BG queue window, you got 2 options (drop down menu) on right top corner which most people are not even aware and they queue for group BG. When I select solo I wait for hours, but if the default option (random BG, which allows groups and but doesn't mention it), its less than a minute. So if you wanna do BGs, you're basically forced to play against pre mades. Last night I did like 10 BGs in a row and got the same pre made group every time, farming solo players and won every match. If you don't wanna change the default choice to solo then at least add the word "group" to the current default.

tomofhyrule

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

And further split a player base from engaging in all BG modes. This is what got us to where we are today, catering to a small minority of die hards that are super focused on one type of play essentially disenfranchising every other player. It’s not like this subset hasn’t already tried to turn other BG modes into kill-fests.

There just aren’t enough active BG players to do this properly. You’ll basically change the random bg into a guaranteed deathmatch every time as you’ll never fill flag games except with the same small group of ppl.

I think the current BG population (Plus players who return because they can finally pick deathmatch) could easily support these four queues:

-Group Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

Daily bonus being attached to the objective queues would hopefully help keep a decent number of players cycling in. Worst case scenario, the objective queues struggle to make matches. But what does that mean? It means that the majority of players are getting exactly what they want, the ability to play Deathmatch on demand. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I definitely agree with adding a DM queue but spliting it into 4 queues will not work. The BG population isn't high enough to support that. It'll have to be only 2 queues, DM and objective. Whether or not it is group or solo for both, I don't really care.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

There should be only two ques. But one should be deathmatch only. I don’t care which is group and which is solo, but this needs to happen.

What about:

-Solo Objective (Daily Bonus Eligible)
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Deathmatch

?

Only split the more popular queue.

This is something I don't understand, but then again I don't play BGs much. But when I do, I'm on comms with a group of friends and we're talking and strategizing.

Flag games? "That flag's undefended." "Purple inbound." "Leave that one, it's almost out." "Go to the new one." "Let me die, get the other one." etc.

Ball games? "Everyone's at purple, let's go green." "I'll guard base." "Orange has our relic." "Stay there, purple dropped ours." "Green's coming back to base." etc.

Domination? "Purple is squishy." That's it.

It always seemed to me that there's a lot more strategizing and working with the team in the objective games, whereas the deathmatches pretty well always turn into 'go kill them.' There's a huge difference in how well objective games will run on comms and if everyone is just doing their own free-for-all. I'd argue that if there were only two queues, the deathmatch one would work better as the solo one and the objective as the group one.

...of course, that would preclude groups from using organized sets in DM games, which I bet most DM players are very against.

Now I don't think splitting them is altogether a bad idea, especially since some builds are better at certain game styles (I have a modified PvE tank build so I'm usually fine for games like chaosball or holding flags or relics, but I'm lucky if I can get more than one kill in a DM since I mostly get assists). The big problem is the reward structure. BGs have a low regular population, and again games like DM are not going to do anything to convert PvErs to PvPers when the PvErs just get flattened every time... which means the population of BGs is always just decreasing.

There's also the same issue that people who run random dungeons have - there are very few people who are excited to see a DLC in their daily random (let's face it, most people are mad about anything other than FGI), but the whole point of the queue is to help players who need those DLC dungeons find groups. Likewise, there are several rewards and achievements that only come from objective games, so removing the major population of BG players makes those achievement/style hunters with infinite queue times. Let's face it - how many people would queue for the 'objective' BG if DM-only was an option? You could try to offer rewards for the objective only, but then you'd still get the 'I hate CTR but I want my Rivyn's reward box!' threads all over. Unless ZOS makes the outfit styles/dyes/etc. available for any BG game instead of specific ones, this'll always cause problems, and then you're basically saying that getting things like the BG dyes are physically impossible. The difficulty of those achievements already skyrocketed since you can't choose your match style, and making the queues last for hours will just make them completely unavailable.

...like I think I managed to cap my 20th relic over MYM, and the only think I can think is 'I need 80 more of these?' I have a guildie who's super Grand Overlord, tons of PvE and PvP achievements and he doesn't even have that one done.

ketsparrowhawk

At least half the BG's I'm in ppl are arguing in group chat about this very topic. Nobody on either side of this conversation is getting what they want out of BG's. We either need a Deathmatch queue option, or kills need to earn points towards a victory in objective modes.

Urvoth

I would prefer them just change it back to the way things originally were. Hardly anyone actually plays in the solo queue, and group players are what keeps BGs alive rn. Who cares if the solo queue has to get deleted in order for dm to come back, the quality of games in the solo queue are absolute trash anyway.

katorga

While they are at it, and DSA and BRP to group finder.

xylena_lazarow

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

And further split a player base from engaging in all BG modes.

Or maybe a lot more people would be interested in BGs if they could choose the game mode they like?

Amottica

I think Zenimax made the wise decision to allow us to choose between solo and group queue and eliminate the choice of match. I think those truly interested in PvP will not care about which match they get.

xylena_lazarow

Amottica wrote: »

I think those truly interested in PvP will not care about which match they get.

There are a lot of purists who don't consider objectives to be "PvP" and will solely focus on player kills regardless of the game mode. This leads to a lot of frustration for both objective players and deathmatchers alike.

ketsparrowhawk

Amottica wrote: »

I think Zenimax made the wise decision to allow us to choose between solo and group queue and eliminate the choice of match. I think those truly interested in PvP will not care about which match they get.

I’m in a large BG-focused guild and they very much do care.

DrSlaughtr

My issue is that all the modes other than death match are geared toward tanky builds. So I prefer death match. But I rarely get it. Seems I mostly get relic and domination.

sabresandiego_ESO

A deathmatch only que benefits objective players just as much as dm players because they don’t have to deal with people ignoring objectives in every single match

Jameson18

So add a designated death match queue, but solo only.

Change the MMR system, so that groups that bg together have to have composition strategy to get themselves up there. (i.e. having a good group comp, swapping gear when game mode is discovered on load-in etc.)

or..

Just simply up deathmatch frequency in the rng and then everyone's generally happy.

Jameson18

I'm also all for adding a proper proportioned point contribution for kills no matter the game mode.

DrSlaughtr

It would be really cool if there was a solo DM queue that had no teams.

Bashev

Or at least make it 33% chance for DM.