Rush of Agony should never see the light of day in Cyrodiil

techyeshic

Right off the bat; this is a terrible idea. No need to test. There is already a pain in CC and not being able to break free. Lag causing double and tripple break free. Your testing likely did not involve peak time lag issues and neither will PTS.

Get rid of this now

Rush of Agony – Medium
2 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
3 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
5 – When you deal direct damage with a Blink, Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, pull enemies within 10 meters to you. After 2 seconds, deal Physical Damage to all enemies within 7 meters. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage. The pull will not apply Crowd Control Immunity to a target.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
We expect to see a lot of power from this set with its ability to pull enemies without applying crowd control. In early internal playtesting, we experimented both with and without CC immunity application, and with it, the pull from this set felt challenging to engage with as your goal was to keep everyone clumped up for a prolonged period of time for the boom… but you couldn’t do it. With no CC immunity application, we hope there is both enough time to get out before you get hit with a big stun like Dawnbreaker of Smiting and the explosion from the set, and enough room to try and deny your opponent to do that. Note that this set’s pull will still respect CC immunity, and not pull targets who are immune to CC.

techyeshic

Never mind the position desync caused by abilities that move other players.

Grimlok_S

Improve the scaling, punish people for standing in stupid, whatever but under no circumstance should a CC not count towards immunity.

Willing to bet it pops the Slippery CP's cooldown too.

VaranisArano

I'm curious to see if the pull has the same issues with elevation differences as MagDK chains does.

It sounds like it has potential as an anti-group set that can break apart a ball for a few moments, but we'll see how that actually works out. Probably not til the Live servers though, since I don't think there's much large group play on the PTS.

sabresandiego_ESO

As soon as any potentially interesting or unique item set is released an army of muppets tries to get it made useless so that the game stays exactly the same for another hundred years.

techyeshic

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

As soon as any potentially interesting or unique item set is released an army of muppets tries to get it made useless so that the game stays exactly the same for another hundred years.

There is an actual issue with how the game is working and this set will make it worse. Nothing interesting other than abusing a broken part of the game.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm curious to see if the pull has the same issues with elevation differences as MagDK chains does.

It sounds like it has potential as an anti-group set that can break apart a ball for a few moments, but we'll see how that actually works out. Probably not til the Live servers though, since I don't think there's much large group play on the PTS.

This will be opposite of breaking up a ball group. Ball groups will use this to gap close a target and pull everyone into their bomb while they can still then fear them all.

TequilaFire

Lol, this is a bombers dream patch.

FantasticFreddie

Forums: omg do something about ball groups!
Zos: OK
Forums: OMG NOT THAT

VaranisArano

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Forums: omg do something about ball groups!
Zos: OK
Forums: OMG NOT THAT

Eh, we'll see. Some of those sets like Dark Convergence and Plague Break are going to be really interesting.

It might be that they are used to kill ball groups. It might be yet another case where the ball groups end up using those sets against the zergs far more successfully.

It'll be fun to see how this shakes out. ZOS has finally given players powerful sets designed to let a few players make a big difference against much larger groups...we'll see how much difference it really makes once this goes Live.

Wuuffyy

Very bad, I agree. Like silver leash stun but off cool down. Not a good idea with the way PvP functions in regards to your character being controlled by CC.

techyeshic

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Very bad, I agree. Like silver leash stun but off cool down. Not a good idea with the way PvP functions in regards to your character being controlled by CC.

Silver least pulls you but then you are CC immune. This will pull you and allow you to be stunned immediately after.

"We expect to see a lot of power from this set with its ability to pull enemies without applying crowd control. "

jaws343

TequilaFire wrote: »

Lol, this is a bombers dream patch.

That was my first thought as well. You could get some crazy bombs with this set.

But I was also eying this set and the addition of spell damage in the Fighter's guild passives for my sorc. Streak in, pull everyone who is not CCd from the streak to me, and dawnbreaker them. Even Meteoring an entire group could be interesting with this set.

danthemann5

techyeshic wrote: »

Right off the bat; this is a terrible idea. No need to test. There is already a pain in CC and not being able to break free. Lag causing double and tripple break free. Your testing likely did not involve peak time lag issues and neither will PTS.

Get rid of this now

Rush of Agony – Medium
2 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
3 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
5 – When you deal direct damage with a Blink, Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, pull enemies within 10 meters to you. After 2 seconds, deal Physical Damage to all enemies within 7 meters. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage. The pull will not apply Crowd Control Immunity to a target.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
We expect to see a lot of power from this set with its ability to pull enemies without applying crowd control. In early internal playtesting, we experimented both with and without CC immunity application, and with it, the pull from this set felt challenging to engage with as your goal was to keep everyone clumped up for a prolonged period of time for the boom… but you couldn’t do it. With no CC immunity application, we hope there is both enough time to get out before you get hit with a big stun like Dawnbreaker of Smiting and the explosion from the set, and enough room to try and deny your opponent to do that. Note that this set’s pull will still respect CC immunity, and not pull targets who are immune to CC.

I don't know about you, but I am looking forward to absolutely abusing the heck out of this set.

Used in a group with the new Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak sets...

SimonThesis

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm curious to see if the pull has the same issues with elevation differences as MagDK chains does.

It sounds like it has potential as an anti-group set that can break apart a ball for a few moments, but we'll see how that actually works out. Probably not til the Live servers though, since I don't think there's much large group play on the PTS.

Ball groupers will probably use this set to pull together zergs of players for easier bombs. Most ball groupers have immovability pots on cooldown anyway so would be immune to this most of the time.

red_emu

It will not affect ball groups in the slightest. Their healing is completely off the scale with 6-10 instances of regen + 6-10 of echoing vigor on every single player per second! Nevermind the sea of Aoe ground based heals and perma CC immunity 😊

Firstmep

I wonder if the other pull set theyre adding also ignores cc immune, from the wording its not clear.

Sandman929

red_emu wrote: »

It will not affect ball groups in the slightest. Their healing is completely off the scale with 6-10 instances of regen + 6-10 of echoing vigor on every single player per second! Nevermind the sea of Aoe ground based heals and perma CC immunity 😊

I'm interested to see the sets mentioned in this thread in action, but I'm worried this is true. I didn't see the changes to heal stacking that would make a real difference where ball groups are concerned.

Tommy_The_Gun

CC-ing someone and not applying CC-ed status effect is basically them breaking rules & guidelines they established themselves, just saying.

Every set and ability that has CC effect (stun, immobilize, pull etc) applies CC effect, so you can break free & gain short CC immunity. Imagine if stun for example did not applied CC-ed status effect so you can not break free.

But, anyway, I am more worried about the other set from rewards of the worthy:

Hrothgar’s Chill
5 – Stunning or Immobilizing your enemy causes them to burst with frost magic, applying the Chilled status effect and dealing 26% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance as Frost Damage to themselves and enemies within 8 meters of them. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

Ok, so what is the average Armour in PvP nowadays ? 15 - 20K or something ? So if a Player has 20 phisical & 20 spell resistance, that is 40K combined. 26% is 10400 AOE dmg, just for a stun or using Bombard. Even if you will apply new 55% battle spirit reduction, that is still 5720 dmg After applying dmg mitigation it will be something around 4K dmg.

And if a player has 33K resistance ? Just calculate it yourself, it looks pretty busted. A set doing more dmg than a skill should not be a thing imho. It will be Sload 2.0 Especially when combined with Oblivion weapon enchant.

The 26% should be something lower, or like every other dmg dealing set should scale with your weapon / spell dmg (so the more weapon / spell dmg you have, the more % you have).

Sandman929

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

CC-ing someone and not applying CC-ed status effect is basically them breaking rules & guidelines they established themselves, just saying.

Every set and ability that has CC effect (stun, immobilize, pull etc) applies CC effect, so you can break free & gain short CC immunity. Imagine if stun for example did not applied CC-ed status effect so you can not break free.

But, anyway, I am more worried about the other set from rewards of the worthy:

Hrothgar’s Chill
5 – Stunning or Immobilizing your enemy causes them to burst with frost magic, applying the Chilled status effect and dealing 26% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance as Frost Damage to themselves and enemies within 8 meters of them. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

Ok, so what is the average Armour in PvP nowadays ? 15 - 20K or something ? So if a Player has 20 phisical & 20 spell resistance, that is 40K combined. 26% is 10400 AOE dmg, just for a stun or using Bombard. Even if you will apply new 55% battle spirit reduction, that is still 5720 dmg After applying dmg mitigation it will be something around 4K dmg.

And if a player has 33K resistance ? Just calculate it yourself, it looks pretty busted. A set doing more dmg than a skill should not be a thing imho. It will be Sload 2.0 Especially when combined with Oblivion weapon enchant.

The 26% should be something lower, or like every other dmg dealing set should scale with your weapon / spell dmg (so the more weapon / spell dmg you have, the more % you have).

If it were every 7 seconds per target, we might get our first ever frost meta

YandereGirlfriend

jaws343 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Lol, this is a bombers dream patch.

That was my first thought as well. You could get some crazy bombs with this set.

But I was also eying this set and the addition of spell damage in the Fighter's guild passives for my sorc. Streak in, pull everyone who is not CCd from the streak to me, and dawnbreaker them. Even Meteoring an entire group could be interesting with this set.

You could get some awesome ult-return by doing that and using Shooting Star, hehe.

Might even be able to cast two in a row.

techyeshic

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

CC-ing someone and not applying CC-ed status effect is basically them breaking rules & guidelines they established themselves, just saying.

Every set and ability that has CC effect (stun, immobilize, pull etc) applies CC effect, so you can break free & gain short CC immunity. Imagine if stun for example did not applied CC-ed status effect so you can not break free.

But, anyway, I am more worried about the other set from rewards of the worthy:

Hrothgar’s Chill
5 – Stunning or Immobilizing your enemy causes them to burst with frost magic, applying the Chilled status effect and dealing 26% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance as Frost Damage to themselves and enemies within 8 meters of them. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

Ok, so what is the average Armour in PvP nowadays ? 15 - 20K or something ? So if a Player has 20 phisical & 20 spell resistance, that is 40K combined. 26% is 10400 AOE dmg, just for a stun or using Bombard. Even if you will apply new 55% battle spirit reduction, that is still 5720 dmg After applying dmg mitigation it will be something around 4K dmg.

And if a player has 33K resistance ? Just calculate it yourself, it looks pretty busted. A set doing more dmg than a skill should not be a thing imho. It will be Sload 2.0 Especially when combined with Oblivion weapon enchant.

The 26% should be something lower, or like every other dmg dealing set should scale with your weapon / spell dmg (so the more weapon / spell dmg you have, the more % you have).

8 meters is a lot of reach. I guess it's intended to break up stacks of players but once again; will make things for everyone else that doesn't have stacks of heals worse.

I'm thinking no CP no proc for me just to escape the wild swings in set balance. The games insistence on releasing something new every 3 months has pushed absurdity and dramatic changes with no impact for the better.

MisterBastahrd

You think the 1 shot build is bad now... wait til streak hits you for 8K with that Hrothgar's chill set.

techyeshic

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

CC-ing someone and not applying CC-ed status effect is basically them breaking rules & guidelines they established themselves, just saying.

Every set and ability that has CC effect (stun, immobilize, pull etc) applies CC effect, so you can break free & gain short CC immunity. Imagine if stun for example did not applied CC-ed status effect so you can not break free.

But, anyway, I am more worried about the other set from rewards of the worthy:

Hrothgar’s Chill
5 – Stunning or Immobilizing your enemy causes them to burst with frost magic, applying the Chilled status effect and dealing 26% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance as Frost Damage to themselves and enemies within 8 meters of them. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

Ok, so what is the average Armour in PvP nowadays ? 15 - 20K or something ? So if a Player has 20 phisical & 20 spell resistance, that is 40K combined. 26% is 10400 AOE dmg, just for a stun or using Bombard. Even if you will apply new 55% battle spirit reduction, that is still 5720 dmg After applying dmg mitigation it will be something around 4K dmg.

And if a player has 33K resistance ? Just calculate it yourself, it looks pretty busted. A set doing more dmg than a skill should not be a thing imho. It will be Sload 2.0 Especially when combined with Oblivion weapon enchant.

The 26% should be something lower, or like every other dmg dealing set should scale with your weapon / spell dmg (so the more weapon / spell dmg you have, the more % you have).

Wait. Is the cooldown per target or only once from the wearer?

VaxtinTheWolf

Haha, I didn't even think of PvP at first. I was imagining this on myTemplar Tank as a way to get some CC without destroying my Stamina Pool trying to Leash in enemies one at a time.

Tommy_The_Gun

Sandman929 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

CC-ing someone and not applying CC-ed status effect is basically them breaking rules & guidelines they established themselves, just saying.

Every set and ability that has CC effect (stun, immobilize, pull etc) applies CC effect, so you can break free & gain short CC immunity. Imagine if stun for example did not applied CC-ed status effect so you can not break free.

But, anyway, I am more worried about the other set from rewards of the worthy:

Hrothgar’s Chill
5 – Stunning or Immobilizing your enemy causes them to burst with frost magic, applying the Chilled status effect and dealing 26% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance as Frost Damage to themselves and enemies within 8 meters of them. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

Ok, so what is the average Armour in PvP nowadays ? 15 - 20K or something ? So if a Player has 20 phisical & 20 spell resistance, that is 40K combined. 26% is 10400 AOE dmg, just for a stun or using Bombard. Even if you will apply new 55% battle spirit reduction, that is still 5720 dmg After applying dmg mitigation it will be something around 4K dmg.

And if a player has 33K resistance ? Just calculate it yourself, it looks pretty busted. A set doing more dmg than a skill should not be a thing imho. It will be Sload 2.0 Especially when combined with Oblivion weapon enchant.

The 26% should be something lower, or like every other dmg dealing set should scale with your weapon / spell dmg (so the more weapon / spell dmg you have, the more % you have).

If it were every 7 seconds per target, we might get our first ever frost meta

I guess it will be called "blink" meta. I mean, all takes is a Sorc using this 2 sets + brutality ring, streaking through enemies and if one of them just happens to be a tank with 30K+ resistance, all of players around standing next to him will take **** ton of dmg, effective being punished not for being tanky, but standing next to someone who is tanky

And if some one tanky won't be there... don't worry, Rush of Agony will pull some one in....

Sephyr

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

CC-ing someone and not applying CC-ed status effect is basically them breaking rules & guidelines they established themselves, just saying.

Every set and ability that has CC effect (stun, immobilize, pull etc) applies CC effect, so you can break free & gain short CC immunity. Imagine if stun for example did not applied CC-ed status effect so you can not break free.

But, anyway, I am more worried about the other set from rewards of the worthy:

Hrothgar’s Chill
5 – Stunning or Immobilizing your enemy causes them to burst with frost magic, applying the Chilled status effect and dealing 26% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance as Frost Damage to themselves and enemies within 8 meters of them. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

Ok, so what is the average Armour in PvP nowadays ? 15 - 20K or something ? So if a Player has 20 phisical & 20 spell resistance, that is 40K combined. 26% is 10400 AOE dmg, just for a stun or using Bombard. Even if you will apply new 55% battle spirit reduction, that is still 5720 dmg After applying dmg mitigation it will be something around 4K dmg.

And if a player has 33K resistance ? Just calculate it yourself, it looks pretty busted. A set doing more dmg than a skill should not be a thing imho. It will be Sload 2.0 Especially when combined with Oblivion weapon enchant.

The 26% should be something lower, or like every other dmg dealing set should scale with your weapon / spell dmg (so the more weapon / spell dmg you have, the more % you have).

I had to do a couple of reads when I was looking that in the natch potes and make sure I wasn't on skooma.

Vevvev

red_emu wrote: »

It will not affect ball groups in the slightest. Their healing is completely off the scale with 6-10 instances of regen + 6-10 of echoing vigor on every single player per second! Nevermind the sea of Aoe ground based heals and perma CC immunity 😊

Indeed, which is probably why the devs are adding these two additional sets

Dark Convergence – Light
2 – Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
3 – Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
4 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
5 – Casting abilities that leave an effect on the ground will create an area that applies a 30% snare and pulls enemies every 2 seconds after a 0.5 second delay, and stun them for 1 seconds. After 4 seconds, the area deals Magic Damage to all enemies in the area, and additional Magic Damage to enemies within 3 meters of the center, increasing the damage by 10% for each target. This effect can occur once every 20 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
This set was designed with one goal in mind – kill large groups. Pesky zerg sitting on your keep or resource flag? Send them to the void by pairing this set with some hard CC and immobilizes.

Plaguebreak – Medium
2 – Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
3 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
5 – Dealing direct damage to an enemy turns them into a Plague Carrier for 10 seconds, dealing Disease Damage over the duration. If the plague is removed early, it explodes, infecting enemies within 8 meters of the carrier dealing Disease Damage. The explosion deals an additional 10% per enemy hit. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds and scales off of the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Similar to Dark Convergence, we targeted large groups again with this set, focusing on their ability to have numerous purges running, making locking them down and bleeding them out incredibly difficult to do. Now, larger groups must purge more carefully, running the risk of setting off ticking time bombs and having to heal up the aftermath instead of repeatedly casting it with reckless abandon.

One of which will explode when purged. Need to see what the actual damage value is and whether that 10% boost is as lethal as implied.

jaws343

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

CC-ing someone and not applying CC-ed status effect is basically them breaking rules & guidelines they established themselves, just saying.

Every set and ability that has CC effect (stun, immobilize, pull etc) applies CC effect, so you can break free & gain short CC immunity. Imagine if stun for example did not applied CC-ed status effect so you can not break free.

But, anyway, I am more worried about the other set from rewards of the worthy:

Hrothgar’s Chill
5 – Stunning or Immobilizing your enemy causes them to burst with frost magic, applying the Chilled status effect and dealing 26% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance as Frost Damage to themselves and enemies within 8 meters of them. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

Ok, so what is the average Armour in PvP nowadays ? 15 - 20K or something ? So if a Player has 20 phisical & 20 spell resistance, that is 40K combined. 26% is 10400 AOE dmg, just for a stun or using Bombard. Even if you will apply new 55% battle spirit reduction, that is still 5720 dmg After applying dmg mitigation it will be something around 4K dmg.

And if a player has 33K resistance ? Just calculate it yourself, it looks pretty busted. A set doing more dmg than a skill should not be a thing imho. It will be Sload 2.0 Especially when combined with Oblivion weapon enchant.

The 26% should be something lower, or like every other dmg dealing set should scale with your weapon / spell dmg (so the more weapon / spell dmg you have, the more % you have).

If it were every 7 seconds per target, we might get our first ever frost meta

I guess it will be called "blink" meta. I mean, all takes is a Sorc using this 2 sets + brutality ring, streaking through enemies and if one of them just happens to be a tank with 30K+ resistance, all of players around standing next to him will take **** ton of dmg, effective being punished not for being tanky, but standing next to someone who is tanky

And if some one tanky won't be there... don't worry, Rush of Agony will pull some one in....

That would be a pretty solid combo. Rush of Agony + Hrothgar's Chill + Malacath. And then just streak around. You wouldn't even have to do any damage yourself. Just stack health and regen.

Tommy_The_Gun

jaws343 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

CC-ing someone and not applying CC-ed status effect is basically them breaking rules & guidelines they established themselves, just saying.

Every set and ability that has CC effect (stun, immobilize, pull etc) applies CC effect, so you can break free & gain short CC immunity. Imagine if stun for example did not applied CC-ed status effect so you can not break free.

But, anyway, I am more worried about the other set from rewards of the worthy:

Hrothgar’s Chill
5 – Stunning or Immobilizing your enemy causes them to burst with frost magic, applying the Chilled status effect and dealing 26% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance as Frost Damage to themselves and enemies within 8 meters of them. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

Ok, so what is the average Armour in PvP nowadays ? 15 - 20K or something ? So if a Player has 20 phisical & 20 spell resistance, that is 40K combined. 26% is 10400 AOE dmg, just for a stun or using Bombard. Even if you will apply new 55% battle spirit reduction, that is still 5720 dmg After applying dmg mitigation it will be something around 4K dmg.

And if a player has 33K resistance ? Just calculate it yourself, it looks pretty busted. A set doing more dmg than a skill should not be a thing imho. It will be Sload 2.0 Especially when combined with Oblivion weapon enchant.

The 26% should be something lower, or like every other dmg dealing set should scale with your weapon / spell dmg (so the more weapon / spell dmg you have, the more % you have).

If it were every 7 seconds per target, we might get our first ever frost meta

I guess it will be called "blink" meta. I mean, all takes is a Sorc using this 2 sets + brutality ring, streaking through enemies and if one of them just happens to be a tank with 30K+ resistance, all of players around standing next to him will take **** ton of dmg, effective being punished not for being tanky, but standing next to someone who is tanky

And if some one tanky won't be there... don't worry, Rush of Agony will pull some one in....

That would be a pretty solid combo. Rush of Agony + Hrothgar's Chill + Malacath. And then just streak around. You wouldn't even have to do any damage yourself. Just stack health and regen.

Quality Gameplay ESO PvP

robpr

Bombing was a mistake.

Combating big groups should be done by draining resources and healing negation rather than one person going in kamikaze mode. Or sieges. Bombing is just mechanic that unrewards grouping with other people...in mmo. At least its gonna be good for server performance as you dont have to make calculation on a player that is dead.

See you all in non-proc campaign I guess?

Elo106

I think its fine apart from the not causing CC immunity, a new set should not just change fundamental gameplay rules like that.
Imagine a set that stuns but doesnt give CC immunity. After being CCed we get immunity through out the game, except this one set.

Not a good sign to start exceptions to rules like that.