Eso stop players queuing in wrong roles for dungeons

svendf

MrMazurski wrote: »

And again.

1. DD population is too big, waiting minium 30 mins as DD only to do daily, especially for TC. No way.
2. Normal you can do with 4DD even if you are all below 50lvl with randoms gears.
3. I don't think most players have more than 1, maybe two tanks / healers in their heroes collection.
4. Few people have a problem with it. Personally, I want to do daily as soon as possible.

5. Vet, that's another matter. But there are problems with random queue other than fake roles.

1. Role out a tank. Na you know what kind of treat you are in for. Lol
2. Could you have missed those, who wanna role out a tank or healer because dd isn´t their thing ? Or those, who like healing, tanking or both. Lets throw them all into vet at once xD. Normal dungeons are good for beginners.
3. How can you be sure of that ?
4. Hm again are you really sure ? Maybe you are in for a surprice
5. Mm other than fake roles. Are you thinking of low/inexperienced dds, tanks, healers. The better the get go the better they get

deleted221106-002999

Not really sure why some players do not recognise or will not accept the dungeon/group finder tool as anything other than what it actually is: a simple tool to enable four random players to group for a random dungeon.

If you don't want random players then PRE-FORM your own group.
If you don't want a specific player in the group VOTE-KICK or LEAVE.

It's not rocket science and it's not broken (has been in the past - a lot).

Now LAG - that needs fixed.

svendf

Call_of_Red_Mountain wrote: »

What i see in normals? 5k dps form 2-3 low lvl players. What i need? Fast run and random daily complete. So, i can solo normal dungeon very fast. But... also i can help someone with this dungeon. Yes, as... dd/heal/tank. Don't blame vets for wrong roles. If you need something serious... just find ppl in zc or guilds.

Two dds in a triad, who learn to stand on their own two feet are much more reliable and efficient than two dds getting carried by two skipping speedster day in and out. I somehow beleive you don´t agree xD but that´s ok.

"Don´t blame vets for wrong roles". I have seen the last two year´s where all this have escalated that it´s on a broard scale.

I do not know what an "vet" player is. But if you mean a player, who run vet content or a player, who have been paying ESO some year´s or both ? Im guilty on all acounts - maybe I disqualify because I also do normal dungeons in the parst not so much now - and trials.

And you are absolutly right. Im not to blame beccause Im not fake queing - I know what you mean I just put another twisst to it. It´s alway`s good to help others just be careful, you can be too much of an help, which ban backfire. Which is something that can be seen i vet dungeons.

Now back to ESO

Thank You

magnusthorek

Y'know, I used to be really mad at fake-tanks but, as long as it's not a veteran DLC, I'm good with them taking aggro at least of the bosses.

Here's some amusing situation that happened to me yesterday.

I queued for Wayrest Sewers II pledge (guess that one was yesterday) and, after a while, I've got a group. One player rushes in and dies to the very first group of mobs. I ignored, holding myself of a sarcastic comment like "that's what happens when you don't wait for your healer". We moved on and the same person died at the first attack o Malubeth, the Scourger (you know it's the first boss, the full name is just to keep the audience entertained ).

Then someone else in the group says in chat "are you sure you're a tank? you have only 16k HP". I confirmed by opening the Group Panel and this time I couldn't resist some meanness. I soft-taunted the boss and me and the other (real) DPS, supported by the healer, of course, finished the boss without resurrecting the fake-tank.

During the whole fight the dead body begging in CAPS LOCK "Help?" and "I'm dead" and also "Guys, help me". After the boss died the player who noticed the super low health for a tank said "fight's over, you can resurrect by yourself". Nothing... the fake-tank remained there, lying on the ground, asking for help. We moved on.

Past the flames boss, the fank-tank wasn't up yet saying "Guys? I'm dead Why you don't help me?". Then I said: "you were told when the past boss died to resurrect by yourself, all you had to do was press a button to get up". Sure, I knew he, perhaps, could have no soul gems with him but, at this point, I confess I was entertaining myself of his misery and, honestly, I wasn't going to help because he someone who tried to skip the queue — and failed (even though Wayrest Sewers II doesn't really need a tank).

We then vote to kick him. I offered to fake-tank the rest of the dungeon, except now it would be "for real" (as long group provided enough sustain). Someone popped a Companion just to close a 4-men group and prevent that fake (or any other fakes to queue with us), even though I'm not sure that was needed but, anyway, I've slotted my Inner Fire (not even morphed) and we finished everything without any problem, except for the squishy Bastien that died all the time.

Felt good... 😎

amm7sb14_ESO

magnusthorek wrote: »

Y'know, I used to be really mad at fake-tanks but, as long as it's not a veteran DLC, I'm good with them taking aggro at least of the bosses.

Here's some amusing situation that happened to me yesterday.

I queued for Wayrest Sewers II pledge (guess that one was yesterday) and, after a while, I've got a group. One player rushes in and dies to the very first group of mobs. I ignored, holding myself of a sarcastic comment like "that's what happens when you don't wait for your healer". We moved on and the same person died at the first attack o Malubeth, the Scourger (you know it's the first boss, the full name is just to keep the audience entertained ).

Then someone else in the group says in chat "are you sure you're a tank? you have only 16k HP". I confirmed by opening the Group Panel and this time I couldn't resist some meanness. I soft-taunted the boss and me and the other (real) DPS, supported by the healer, of course, finished the boss without resurrecting the fake-tank.

During the whole fight the dead body begging in CAPS LOCK "Help?" and "I'm dead" and also "Guys, help me". After the boss died the player who noticed the super low health for a tank said "fight's over, you can resurrect by yourself". Nothing... the fake-tank remained there, lying on the ground, asking for help. We moved on.

Past the flames boss, the fank-tank wasn't up yet saying "Guys? I'm dead Why you don't help me?". Then I said: "you were told when the past boss died to resurrect by yourself, all you had to do was press a button to get up". Sure, I knew he, perhaps, could have no soul gems with him but, at this point, I confess I was entertaining myself of his misery and, honestly, I wasn't going to help because he someone who tried to skip the queue — and failed (even though Wayrest Sewers II doesn't really need a tank).

We then vote to kick him. I offered to fake-tank the rest of the dungeon, except now it would be "for real" (as long group provided enough sustain). Someone popped a Companion just to close a 4-men group and prevent that fake (or any other fakes to queue with us), even though I'm not sure that was needed but, anyway, I've slotted my Inner Fire (not even morphed) and we finished everything without any problem, except for the squishy Bastien that died all the time.

Felt good... 😎

This sort of reminds me of a story from a few nights ago, albeit it wasn't a fake role. It was an actual DD. We had gotten vet Moongrave Fane as our random vet daily, I was the tank, and so I led the charge into the first trash fight. I hadn't noticed that one of the DD's had asked for a moment (presumably to set his bars or gear or something?), and aggro'd the pull. I noticed his chat during the fight, so after we finished the fight I said "Sure, no problem!"

The other DD then says "F--- that, I'm not waiting" and transforms into a werewolf and charges the 2nd trash pull. The healer and I run up to the edge of the fight, but don't engage. The impatient werewolf DPS finally clears the 2nd group, and as soon as the fight is over, the healer votes to kick. I add in my vote, and when the original moment requesting DPS came back, he voted too. The werewolf DPS went on a profanity laced tirade in the seconds before he was kicked from the instance, to endure the DD queue time one more time.

Call_of_Red_Mountain

@svendf,
My message was about "help yourself and help other ppl in one run"'. Not "teach them and explain mechanics". Because you know what? I tried before. Some ppl was angry, some ppl just ignored. I explain mechanics only when someone asks me.

So if you need a teacher just find someone with experience and ask him. Or just type something like: "Please, slow down", I need QUEST" Believe me it'll work.

Amerises

Call_of_Red_Mountain wrote: »

@svendf, i'm not using activity finder for veteran dungeons. Especially for dlc. It's a bad idea. I wouldn't recommend it.

My massage was about "help yourself and help other ppl in one run"'. Not "teach them and explain mechanics". Because you know what? I tried before. Some ppl was angry, some ppl just ignored. I explain mechanics only when someone asks me.

So if you need a teacher just find someone with experience and ask him. Or just type something like: "Please, slow down", I need QUEST" Believe me it'll work.

Very true. People get VERY defensive when trying to help. I have no problem slowing down if someone has quest, I have no problem slowing down and not doing God pulls if someone doesn't know how and dies a lot, I have no problem being a cp1000 in gold gear having completed vet trials as a tank and going a little slower through Fungal I, but please just say something, it's all good. People just get so frustrated when someone doesn't think exactly like them for some reason...

PrimusTiberius

Purple_Sam81 wrote: »

Eso stop players queuing in wrong roles for dungeons

Will never happen until ZOS finds a way to reduce DPS wait times.

Its like sitting in a traffic jam and that one guys gets tired of waiting and decides to hit the shoulder to get a head of the traffic and then 5 other cars see this and peel off onto the shoulder too and then everyone is doing it, next thing you know, everyone is on the shoulder and in the car pool lane all locked up in traffic.

its one of the main reason why I avoid dungeons when not with guildies, the wait time for DPS is absolutely ridiculous and ZOS turns a blind eye to the problem. The only solution at this time is to hook up with guildies and hit them, its a good way of of getting guild activities rolling.

~ Cheers

Purple_Sam81

Jacozilla wrote: »

Purple_Sam81 wrote: »

As title says

Please eso powers that be make it so players stop queuing in the wrong roles for dungeons, stop DDs queuing as fake tanks or fake healers.

Make it so that you can only queue in the role that your toon’s build is.

Will you ask for a ban on addons as well? Or at minimum, a ban on swapping gear the old fashioned way - e.g. manually swap gear/skills?

Because if you ban queuing unless you pass some arbitrary X build list for Y role, then you'd simply have:

1. one click with addon to swap build to queue
2. enter dungeon, one click to swap build
3. or if addons banned, then manually swap gear/skills
4. or if all build swaps banned once in dungeon, congrats - tons of ppl more upset over the ban on skill/gear swap than the fake queue

If people were good enough to play the game properly, they wouldn’t need add ons to cheat or be lazy

Purple_Sam81

They brought companions out so that you and a buddy could do a group content and each have a companion of a different role, without having to group up with random players, yet if you queue for a random dungeon to get your daily do and 10 transmute rewards, it kicks your companions out of group and replaces with random toxic players

Pevey

My bow/bow 27k health tank/dps stamden got kicked from a normal dungeon once right after loading. This is very rare. If it does happen, I just laugh, because after kick I can instaqueue again. No biggie. Was wearing powerful assault/perfected yolna and had void bash available for trash fights and had inner beast slotted. No need even for healer because I need to spam the vigor every 10 seconds anyway for the group buff. If you happen to get a "fake healer," swap the PA out for olorime ice staff back bar for easy 3 dps run. People need to be more open minded. DLC dungeons can be facetanked with this set up no problem.

Viewsfrom6ix

Purple_Sam81 wrote: »

They brought companions out so that you and a buddy could do a group content and each have a companion of a different role, without having to group up with random players, yet if you queue for a random dungeon to get your daily do and 10 transmute rewards, it kicks your companions out of group and replaces with random toxic players

The transmute and exp reward is an incentive to queue with others or help others queuing for a specific dungeon.

You and your buddy still can run specific dungs with your companions.

Kusto

I haven't seen fake tanks in dungeons because I always queue as one myself lol.

Learn how to fake tank and do it yourself so you dont have to deal with them. Theres nothing wrong with fake tanking normals, including dlcs. All you need is to slot inner fire to hold busses still and do decent dps. All trash mobs in normals are like overland, they die when you look at them. Some dlc bosses can hit hard but once you know which ones then you can just rolldodge their heavies. I've never been kicked. I'm doing dailys on multiple toons and have played for years. Just do it right and no one has any issues with it.

disintegr8

The only way to avoid this is to form your own group.

Nemo78

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

While we're at it, let's add a requirement to stop fake DDs too.

Yes, why not stopping people that deal no decent damage from queuing as DDs as well?

The "fake" problem already has a solution, if the group does not like it, they can make de democratic decision of vote kicking.

EDIT: People forget something, if the "fakes" were somehow prevented, how long do you think the queues would be?

Amottica

I heal some dungeons merely with one heal. I suppose a taunt is all that is required to be heard to be a tank. A player can merely slot one thing to be built for the role and nothing Zenimax can do will force them to use that still.

They can change it after getting into a dungeon. Preventing players from changing gear and skills would be a very bad idea as some players, especially DDs, might be using a questing build while waiting for the queue to pop.

I mostly run with guildmates so we have control over the makeup of the group. There does not seem to be a workable solution that I have seen mentioned in the forums. Have an alt build and vote kick the fakes.

neferpitou73

I'll stop queueing as a fake tank when your average dungeon DPS player can hit above 20k. This is not me being elitist. I've wasted more time in dungeons because the dps can't kill the boss than I've ever spent raging over a fake tank. Asking others to wait because you queue for a role you can't perform is just as bad as queueing for a tank without a taunt.

Besides for everything outside of II vet dungeons and higher you can get away with a fake tank just fine.

svendf

Is it bad hoping it all backfires on all supporting fakeroles ? It already have in a small scale in vet dungeons. Lets se how it all turn into "the fake dd" excuse xD and the next excuse, and the next excuse.

There where a time fakeroles was almost non existing. We did content in a triad connfig with lower dps than we have today.

It have become a really bad idea using gf in vets. The same can be said about normal dungeons.

I will alway´s support posters, who rightful want to play through gf in a triad config. That doesn`t mean I can´t be without dungeons, because I can and have been for two or so month.

For people, who like a tank and healer - Im sorry Im not queing with any of mine, same for my dds.

EpicHero

So are we going to see a new thread on this every week now?

The point becomes mute if you can't even be bothered to check if there is already a thread on it =/

Make friends and play with those... it makes the game a lot more fun.

LalMirchi

Somehow the recurring threads on this subject remind me of the dear Don https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

I fear that this will never be solved.

MrMazurski

svendf wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

And again.

1. DD population is too big, waiting minium 30 mins as DD only to do daily, especially for TC. No way.
2. Normal you can do with 4DD even if you are all below 50lvl with randoms gears.
3. I don't think most players have more than 1, maybe two tanks / healers in their heroes collection.
4. Few people have a problem with it. Personally, I want to do daily as soon as possible.

5. Vet, that's another matter. But there are problems with random queue other than fake roles.

1. Role out a tank. Na you know what kind of treat you are in for. Lol
2. Could you have missed those, who wanna role out a tank or healer because dd isn´t their thing ? Or those, who like healing, tanking or both. Lets throw them all into vet at once xD. Normal dungeons are good for beginners.
3. How can you be sure of that ?
4. Hm again are you really sure ? Maybe you are in for a surprice
5. Mm other than fake roles. Are you thinking of low/inexperienced dds, tanks, healers. The better the get go the better they get

Bla bla bla,

I have tank, i dont play healer not my cup of tea. And know what problems have randoms dungeons.

Yes im sure, more than your wierd answers which bring nothing

RoninMB

What if ZOS put in a report feature? After a certain number of reports then the dungeon is logged so ZOS can look over it and determine if the reported player was actually fake queueing. The player would then maybe get 1 or 2 warnings then be banned from the group finder for a time period.

People keep saying to form your own group if you don't like all the fake queuers, but how about all the fake queuers stop being selfish and form THEIR own group.

Michaelkeir

Souterain wrote: »

Not really sure why some players do not recognise or will not accept the dungeon/group finder tool as anything other than what it actually is: a simple tool to enable four random players to group for a random dungeon.

If you don't want random players then PRE-FORM your own group.
If you don't want a specific player in the group VOTE-KICK or LEAVE.

It's not rocket science and it's not broken (has been in the past - a lot).

Now LAG - that needs fixed.

This person sums it up nicely. You hate fake tanks, you have options in game to fix it. No need for dev involvement. I don’t understand why those complaining are even complaining when you can simply vote kick or form your own group. I don’t see any legitimate reason from the complainers as to why they can’t use the tools at hand to solve their fake roll problems.

Only reason I could see is the DD’s wait time. And even that can be solved with joining a guild or make some in game friends to form a group with. Or better yet do like most of us do, create a tank and help the GF by queuing instead of complaining. I have several tanks, dds, and 2 healers, so I see it from all sides. I only run vet content but I have plenty of experience with normal dungeon runs when I was leveling up.

One finial solution. If you join a random and you find yourself queued with a good tank. Talk to him, befriend him, and ask him could you add him to your friend list. And when you need a reliable tank hit him or her up and ask for help doing the dailies. I cannot tell you how often this happens to me and I’m more then willing to help out. I get tells all the time asking for vet hm clears or just dailies in general.

MissAethe

I think a lot of my thoughts have already been stated by others, but I'll toss my comments into the pool anyway.

The biggest suggestion I've seen overall to this problem is the "Player Checks" to make sure someone qualifies for a specific role. That's just not going to work, it isn't:

1. Tanks Require S&B: Okay, what about those who tank with Ice Staffs using Frost Clench? What about those who tank 2H with Inner Rage? What about DPS who use S&B without a taunt? S&B isn't a tanking requirement.
2. Tanks Require A Taunt: Anyone can slot a taunt to get past that check, that doesn't work.
3. Healers Require a Heal: Every class has healing skills, that's way too broad when any DPS can slot a heal
4. DPS Have to Hit X DPS: Having a DPS damage number to hit is ridiculous for running random dungeons, especially when hitting top-tier numbers require fully geared sets and perfect technique use/bar swapping. So we're just going to exclude anyone who needs to run said dungeon to collect said gear to reach that point? Or maybe someone just made a DPS and they're still learning, we're going to block them, too?
5. Gear Locks: No. Just no. What if someone runs in as a DPS and decides "hey actually, my bow would be more useful here than dual wielding" but now they can't by the forced gear-lock? What about a tank running a specific monster set who decides half-way through they need to change it for something with more or less support? Can't, they're stuck.

Checks just aren't a great idea when playing a game like ESO. Build variety is crazy, hybrid is the way to go Overland, there isn't one forced-meta-way to do anything, so trying to use a specific skill or gear as the Player Check doesn't work.

Don't get me wrong, it is annoying when I go to tank a dungeon and we have 3 DPS and no healer, so I end up stressed trying to also play the healer, or my daily random vet dungeon has no tank and the boss chases my tiny healer butt all over the room. But on the same breath, I've been vote-kicked for running a backbar lightning staff with Wall as a "fake healer", and I've been vote-kicked from a dungeon before we even started as a "fake-tank" for running ice staff on both bars. You can't expect a game full of people who think there is only one Perfect Way to do something to decide on rules. You can't expect people who are level 1000+ CP and didn't know Frost Clench was a taunt to decide I'm not allowed to tank a dungeon. Not everyone who plays this game knows all of the mechanics, knows the variety of builds, actually comes online to learn what the game doesn't bother to explain.

Variety in this game is both a blessing and a curse for that reason, and yes, I think there should be some better way to encourage people to lock the roles they actually play, but I also recognize this freedom to do whatever style of build you want prevents that a lot of the times. It simply isn't an easy fix, as much as people demand a solution, the solution isn't going to come at the expense of build-freedom. That isn't the answer. If ESO didn't want people to play how they want, we wouldn't have the gear and sets that we have to allow for that.

svendf

MrMazurski wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

And again.

1. DD population is too big, waiting minium 30 mins as DD only to do daily, especially for TC. No way.
2. Normal you can do with 4DD even if you are all below 50lvl with randoms gears.
3. I don't think most players have more than 1, maybe two tanks / healers in their heroes collection.
4. Few people have a problem with it. Personally, I want to do daily as soon as possible.

5. Vet, that's another matter. But there are problems with random queue other than fake roles.

1. Role out a tank. Na you know what kind of treat you are in for. Lol
2. Could you have missed those, who wanna role out a tank or healer because dd isn´t their thing ? Or those, who like healing, tanking or both. Lets throw them all into vet at once xD. Normal dungeons are good for beginners.
3. How can you be sure of that ?
4. Hm again are you really sure ? Maybe you are in for a surprice
5. Mm other than fake roles. Are you thinking of low/inexperienced dds, tanks, healers. The better the get go the better they get

Bla bla bla,

I have tank, i dont play healer not my cup of tea. And know what problems have randoms dungeons.

Yes im sure, more than your wierd answers which bring nothing

You are right to have your opinion ok by me. Just tank on and enjoy. xD

ixthUA

I don't understand why people queue into dungeons that only require 1-2 dps and expect to meet a tank and healer there.

LyricsEcho

This forum plus the reddit forum has similar topics I have not checked usernames so I will just assume same person beating a dead horse: The easiest way to remedy this is to use the tools you have in front of you. IE zone chat to make a premade. It may take longer to do this but at least you have some control when you use group finder.

Arbit

I’d like to see a group finder like they have in guild wars 2 so you can group up with ppl as they advertise their group. Rather than grouping with randoms whose values you may not agree with.

Chrysa1is

* pre battle speech vibes * Get rid of dungeon finder and bring back the days where people stood outside dungeons and hand picked their teams like the pirates do in Captain Phillips.

Bigmatt2

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Oh yeah, the weekly cry for fixing the Dungeon Finder mess.

Let me grab my popcorns!

Stole my comment.