When people complain about streak..

NordSwordnBoard

StaticWave wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Showing one video proving nothing.
Come in nocp and try to follow a streaking sorc.
I can show hundreds of video of streking sorc running away and no one able to catch them

I lose 4% from cp. I'm still 10% over the speed cap. Going into no CP wouldn't even make a difference for the sorc lmao.

Please show me a video of you or whoever trying to chase a sorc and failing at it. I would love to watch what you did wrong.

People don't want to change, they want the enemy to change for them. Having a GO sorc main, I can tell you I know streak well enough that a gap closer exists on all my stam toons - and sorcs almost never get away. The SnB gap closer stuns the sorc, even gives you a little shield in case you're still afraid of him, and with no ramping cost always wins vs streak.

@Marcus_Aurelius His video proves more than any of your statements. Show us the hundreds of videos of you being left behind by streak. If you approach criticism with an attitude open to change and improvement, we will have you on those sorcs like white on rice. They will never be a problem for you again.

Anybody saying streak is OP - have you used it extensively enough that you know its weaknesses? Using cloak helped me understand NBs such that I understand how the skill and tactics beat me before. Knowing stamden rotation or seeing that necro bait you into his graveyard for harmony - it all falls under experience.

Marcus_Aurelius

StaticWave wrote: »

If you are having problems with lag chances are the guy you're trying to gap close is also experiencing the same issue. I can't recall how many times I tried streaking and not having it go off while being zerged.

The video doesn't show me using gap closer either and still being able to chase down the sorc. Your point?

Nope, strek always works for me cause don't need need a target.
Try invasion, the animation will begin and then 90% of the time you will stay in the same place.
I' ll try it some times and then change skill in frustration.

Tommy_The_Gun

Dojohoda wrote: »

Sorc versus Sorc

Exactly. That is like NB vs NB...

Try catching up with sorc on anything else...

Marcus_Aurelius

[quote="NordSwordnBoard;c-7324305" The SnB gap closer stuns the sorc, even gives you a little shield in case you're still afraid of him, and with no ramping cost always wins vs streak.

[/quote]

Can you tell me where Invasion work please? I will love to play in such campaign.
I loved Quamire because I was able to use this skill, but Rawenwatch?
In Rawenwatch with all the lag you can't use invasion to hit a static guard at a resource.
You press the button and just stay there

divnyi

>title says "Streak"
>there is no Streak in the video

Clickbaited.

Streak is better at escapes since you start it on enemy and move out of any gap-closers range when enemy is still stunned.

Speed vs Streak is not an answer since sorc can easily slot speed and streak. He wasn't even using Major Expedition.

NordSwordnBoard

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Can you tell me where Invasion work please? I will love to play in such campaign.
I loved Quamire because I was able to use this skill, but Rawenwatch?
In Rawenwatch with all the lag you can't use invasion to hit a static guard at a resource.
You press the button and just stay there

Gap Closers are not perfect, true- but those problems sound like the worst lag I ever heard of. Are you exaggerating? Can anybody else gap close the guard, or is it just you it won't work for?

If detect pots failed to work in one campaign but not another, I'd ask them to fix detect pots, not change cloak. Same goes for gap closers only working in one campaign for you.

(edited to fix quoting)

StaticWave

divnyi wrote: »

>title says "Streak"
>there is no Streak in the video

Clickbaited.

Streak is better at escapes since you start it on enemy and move out of any gap-closers range when enemy is still stunned.

Speed vs Streak is not an answer since sorc can easily slot speed and streak. He wasn't even using Major Expedition.

No, streak is better at being offensive. Ball of lightning is twice as good as streak for escape because of the snare cleanse and projectile absorption. The stun wouldn’t even matter because I literally gave the dude a head start by hanging on the bridge, which is equivalent to being stunned by streak, and STILL caught up to him after he spammed it 3 times.

Major expedition wouldn’t have mattered. I still have more speed than he does and the speed doesn’t get carried over while you are streaking. It might have created a few extra meters of distance, but I could just slot a gap closer and close that distance immediately.

StaticWave

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

If you are having problems with lag chances are the guy you're trying to gap close is also experiencing the same issue. I can't recall how many times I tried streaking and not having it go off while being zerged.

The video doesn't show me using gap closer either and still being able to chase down the sorc. Your point?

Nope, strek always works for me cause don't need need a target.
Try invasion, the animation will begin and then 90% of the time you will stay in the same place.
I' ll try it some times and then change skill in frustration.

Sounds like you just had lag. All abilities are affected by lag so I don’t see why that’s an argument.

Ragnaroek93

Streak is fine, it's the other morph which is ridiculous, especially after ZOS reworked Dk wings. Good luck killing the sorc in that video on a build which relies on projectiles

Marcus_Aurelius

StaticWave wrote: »

Sounds like you just had lag. All abilities are affected by lag so I don’t see why that’s an argument.

Cause there is always lag.
You can't judge skills by reading the tooltip, you have to judge the skills seeing how they work in real fights and there is a big difference between Streak (no target required) and any other gap closer that require a target when you play in Cyrolag.

The fact that -in theory- a gap close should work dosn't change the reality that you can't use a gap closer to pursue a streaking sorc.

ThePedge

StaticWave wrote: »

Vizirith wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

The problem with streak is not that it works as a spammable gap closer or as an escape tool, or that it does aoe damage, or that it works as an unblockable stun. Is that it does all that together.

Is it the only overloaded ability in the game? No, but it surely is one of them.

It should probably have a higher ramping cost maybe 100% instead of 50%. The skill in and of itself is okay, maybe if anything remove the damage.

Ok then give stamsorc more healing if you want to completely gut streak. Also make cloak have a 100% ramping cost because apparently them spamming cloak is completely ok but streaking already with a cost increase still deserves more nerfs.

Tell me how many counters Streak has, and how many Cloak has, then evaluate why you shouldn't compare the two.

universal_wrath

ThePedge wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Vizirith wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

The problem with streak is not that it works as a spammable gap closer or as an escape tool, or that it does aoe damage, or that it works as an unblockable stun. Is that it does all that together.

Is it the only overloaded ability in the game? No, but it surely is one of them.

It should probably have a higher ramping cost maybe 100% instead of 50%. The skill in and of itself is okay, maybe if anything remove the damage.

Ok then give stamsorc more healing if you want to completely gut streak. Also make cloak have a 100% ramping cost because apparently them spamming cloak is completely ok but streaking already with a cost increase still deserves more nerfs.

Tell me how many counters Streak has, and how many Cloak has, then evaluate why you shouldn't compare the two.

Streak
1- terrain
2- range attack
3- charge/*** closers, ping related
4- immoblization
5- stun
6- speed
7- indoor usage
8- penalty for use

Cloak
1-potions only for magicka
2- detect skills expensive to use.
3- AOE
4- sentry set

You can obviously see that even when claok has 4 counter, only two work, realistcly.

Both detect skills and sentry set are dedicated to fighting cloakers and offer nothing notable to be used other wise, you need to be a cloaker bot tto use them and even most of the detect skills are useless because of short range/duration or being only usefull against nightblades and epensive. Detect potions are only good for magicka users, but still a good option with big range. Aoe is only good if you are at choke point and good ping, nightblades can reach speef cap in cloak so they aviod most AOE attacks.

techyeshic

I find it a bit odd to see someone act like streak is not only easily countered but even sub-par somehow. It's the same way that some bad NBs will tell you cloak just doesn't work when that's all they do, with no extra speed or shadow image themselves. The sorc ran down here apparently also has no extra speed to keep pace between streaks, nor cheesey LOS blockers if they did to combat gap closers if needed. Gap closers, which I really wished work; but become a liability in lag due to position desync impacting targeted gap closers the way it does. They dropped dead probably really easy because they ran themselves OOM because they are not good.

I'm not saying they need a nerf; but I've dumpstered a lot of bad wardens and necros. If I show a vid of that, does it mean their defensive are weak?

Edit:. I love how I typed this up and go back and look to see this devolve into yet another sorc vs NB thread. Lol 1st world problems with escape tools and CC

StaticWave

ThePedge wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Vizirith wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

The problem with streak is not that it works as a spammable gap closer or as an escape tool, or that it does aoe damage, or that it works as an unblockable stun. Is that it does all that together.

Is it the only overloaded ability in the game? No, but it surely is one of them.

It should probably have a higher ramping cost maybe 100% instead of 50%. The skill in and of itself is okay, maybe if anything remove the damage.

Ok then give stamsorc more healing if you want to completely gut streak. Also make cloak have a 100% ramping cost because apparently them spamming cloak is completely ok but streaking already with a cost increase still deserves more nerfs.

Tell me how many counters Streak has, and how many Cloak has, then evaluate why you shouldn't compare the two.

Streak: Gap closers, chains/silver leash, speed

Cloak: detect pots, aoe, radiant mage light

Tell me why does it matter?

StaticWave

Oh by the way, AoE dots won’t break cloak in update 31 according to Gilliam, so 1 less thing to pull nb out of stealth

Chilly-McFreeze

techyeshic wrote: »

The sorc ran down here apparently also has no extra speed to keep pace between streaks, nor cheesey LOS blockers if they did to combat gap closers if needed. Gap closers, which I really wished work; but become a liability in lag due to position desync impacting targeted gap closers the way it does. They dropped dead probably really easy because they ran themselves OOM because they are not good.

I don't get it. Maybe I'm too tired or something's lost in transaltion.

When lag hits so hard that gap closers won't work then streak won't work well either. This isn't a one sided issue. But that won't fit the argument, right?

And to get this clear, your advise to that escaping sorc is to cast a speed buff and run between streaks because streak is better than running?

deleted221106-002999

techyeshic wrote: »

...
Edit:. I love how I typed this up and go back and look to see this devolve into yet another sorc vs NB thread. Lol 1st world problems with escape tools and CC

Yes, it does seem to have grown arms & legs....

It's almost like there's a forum skill bar with morphs for "nerf class x" or "nerf skill y" or "class a v class b". Once morphed it becomes a spammable: *thread parallax* LOL

Joy_Division

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Showing one video proving nothing.
Come in nocp and try to follow a streaking sorc.
I can show hundreds of video of streking sorc running away and no one able to catch them

I chased down streaking sorcs on the slowest spec in the game (magplar).

Players are perfectly capable of chasing down streaking sorcerers given the tools that ZOS has provided. But many players do not want to bother investing in these tools, rather they'd rather be able to keep they own builds without changing them up and instead have ZOS step in and just limit their opponent's tools and effectiveness for them.

Faulgor

So all those people that chase Sorcs across half the map are just ... running wrong somehow?

StaticWave

In light of the proposed new changes for NB’s cloak in update 31, it is even more apparent that only direct dmg abilities will pull NB out of stealth. AoE dots won’t be able to do that anymore, which is a huge buff for cloak. Granted, ZOS also mentioned reworking stealth detection abilities, so we’ll see how that goes. The only 2 things that can reliably pull a NB out of stealth this patch is detect potions, which last 12s, and radiant mage light, which is magicka exclusive. Other methods simply aren’t reliable especially against a NB with good movement speed.

I am specifically comparing cloak vs streak because they are the 2 best escape abilities in the game, so it makes sense to compare their strength and weaknesses. Cloaking not only removes you from the client, but also suppresses DoTs and grant a guaranteed critical strike for the next direct dmg attack. Streak on the other hand, creates a 15m distance between you and your target, stuns whoever’s on your path, and deals slight AoE direct dmg. Both abilities require your opponent to use a specific counter. Objectively, cloak is a much better ability for escape because it gives you immunity to DoTs and single target abilities. Streak on the other hand, is much better at creating distance and getting to places you normally cannot get to. They both serve different purposes, but we cannot deny the fact that cloak by itself is just as overloaded as streak. If people want streak nerfed, then cloak must also receive the same treatment.

Tommy_The_Gun

StaticWave wrote: »

Oh by the way, AoE dots won’t break cloak in update 31 according to Gilliam, so 1 less thing to pull nb out of stealth

But cloak will no longer suppress dot dmg, and any dmg at all. Even projectiles fired at you, will still hit you, but they won't interrupt invisibility. At least this is how I understood it.

NagualV

StaticWave wrote: »

In light of the proposed new changes for NB’s cloak in update 31, it is even more apparent that only direct dmg abilities will pull NB out of stealth. AoE dots won’t be able to do that anymore, which is a huge buff for cloak. Granted, ZOS also mentioned reworking stealth detection abilities, so we’ll see how that goes.

What are the proposed new changes to cloak? Was it discussed on the forums, or in a stream? Just curious.

NagualV

Nvm, I found it.

Sounds like Interesting changes....

PhoenixGrey

ThePedge wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Vizirith wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

The problem with streak is not that it works as a spammable gap closer or as an escape tool, or that it does aoe damage, or that it works as an unblockable stun. Is that it does all that together.

Is it the only overloaded ability in the game? No, but it surely is one of them.

It should probably have a higher ramping cost maybe 100% instead of 50%. The skill in and of itself is okay, maybe if anything remove the damage.

Ok then give stamsorc more healing if you want to completely gut streak. Also make cloak have a 100% ramping cost because apparently them spamming cloak is completely ok but streaking already with a cost increase still deserves more nerfs.

Tell me how many counters Streak has, and how many Cloak has, then evaluate why you shouldn't compare the two.

Streak has a ramping cost. Now let's evaluate.

Even if it theoretically did not have a ramping cost, I would still catch any sorc in this game. [snip] So yeah, I would suggest we nerf cloak instead. If not remove ramping cost from streak

[edited for baiting]

PhoenixGrey

Faulgor wrote: »

So all those people that chase Sorcs across half the map are just ... running wrong somehow?

Yeah, because sorcs can't tank out 50 ppl around them like warden or necro

PhoenixGrey

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Showing one video proving nothing.
Come in nocp and try to follow a streaking sorc.
I can show hundreds of video of streking sorc running away and no one able to catch them

Mag sorc is currently one of the weakest no cp classes. I can give you a live demonstration in no cp how I burst down sorcs streaking away.

Running streak means they face tank all projectiles which means dead sorc while they are stuck in streak animation.

If you are any stamina class you should have no problem catching a streaking sorc tbh

techyeshic

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

The sorc ran down here apparently also has no extra speed to keep pace between streaks, nor cheesey LOS blockers if they did to combat gap closers if needed. Gap closers, which I really wished work; but become a liability in lag due to position desync impacting targeted gap closers the way it does. They dropped dead probably really easy because they ran themselves OOM because they are not good.

I don't get it. Maybe I'm too tired or something's lost in transaltion.

When lag hits so hard that gap closers won't work then streak won't work well either. This isn't a one sided issue. But that won't fit the argument, right?

And to get this clear, your advise to that escaping sorc is to cast a speed buff and run between streaks because streak is better than running?

Targeting is the difference. I've played with both and it's noticeable.

And just having some speed to keep moving while doing a dark conversion rather than spam and run OOM. it's not hard to figure out if you play both ways. Targeted gap closers at peak prime time will cause a sure delay on abilities and then some rubber bands. It's why I really wouldn't nerf streak given it SHOULD be counter able. . We're all fighting the lag.

ThePedge

StaticWave wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Vizirith wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

The problem with streak is not that it works as a spammable gap closer or as an escape tool, or that it does aoe damage, or that it works as an unblockable stun. Is that it does all that together.

Is it the only overloaded ability in the game? No, but it surely is one of them.

It should probably have a higher ramping cost maybe 100% instead of 50%. The skill in and of itself is okay, maybe if anything remove the damage.

Ok then give stamsorc more healing if you want to completely gut streak. Also make cloak have a 100% ramping cost because apparently them spamming cloak is completely ok but streaking already with a cost increase still deserves more nerfs.

Tell me how many counters Streak has, and how many Cloak has, then evaluate why you shouldn't compare the two.

Streak: Gap closers, chains/silver leash, speed

Cloak: detect pots, aoe, radiant mage light

Tell me why does it matter?

Gap Closers should be on Cloak list, as they're much more effective against NBs than sorcs.

Streak stun has zero counter. You can't block it, dodge it, anything. As long as a Streak stuns you, the sorc can use it again immediately and be out of Gap Close/Chain range.

Brander12

This game should be named The Elder Streak Online ;D

StaticWave

ThePedge wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Vizirith wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

The problem with streak is not that it works as a spammable gap closer or as an escape tool, or that it does aoe damage, or that it works as an unblockable stun. Is that it does all that together.

Is it the only overloaded ability in the game? No, but it surely is one of them.

It should probably have a higher ramping cost maybe 100% instead of 50%. The skill in and of itself is okay, maybe if anything remove the damage.

Ok then give stamsorc more healing if you want to completely gut streak. Also make cloak have a 100% ramping cost because apparently them spamming cloak is completely ok but streaking already with a cost increase still deserves more nerfs.

Tell me how many counters Streak has, and how many Cloak has, then evaluate why you shouldn't compare the two.

Streak: Gap closers, chains/silver leash, speed

Cloak: detect pots, aoe, radiant mage light

Tell me why does it matter?

Gap Closers should be on Cloak list, as they're much more effective against NBs than sorcs.

Streak stun has zero counter. You can't block it, dodge it, anything. As long as a Streak stuns you, the sorc can use it again immediately and be out of Gap Close/Chain range.

Again, the video I demonstrated shows that I can still chase down a sorc that is already given a head start, replicating streak's stun.