Storytime with Bastian in Normal Dungeons (and why we need a story mode)

BretonMage

I can't believe I've just seen this thread. This is awesome, spartaxoxo. I'm not watching the videos yet since I plan to one day quest through them myself (I've done a few, not all), but I'd love to know how you spec'd Bastian not to die. I assume he tanks? Mine dies in most normal DLCs on all blue vigorous gear.

dmnqwk wrote: »

A tutorial mode for dungeons would not be a bad idea. (Naming it story mode isn't necessary because you can already enter solo for the story).

I like the idea of story/tutorial mode. I don't think the difficulty needs to be trivial, after all if you trivialise the difficulty, then mechanics don't matter at all. They could add the prompts as suggested and maybe slow the combat down just a little during those prompts so players can see what's happening.

Btw not all players can solo normal DLCs for the story. I mean, they can enter the dungeon, sure. They may not be able to complete it though.

spartaxoxo

@BretonMage

My Bastian has just enough Vigorous gear to get to 35k and the rest is in Bolstered.

ETA: He has a couple of purples too.

BretonMage

spartaxoxo wrote: »

@BretonMage

My Bastian has just enough Vigorous gear to get to 35k and the rest is in Bolstered.

ETA: He has a couple of purples too.

Thanks! I've tried mixing vigorous and bolstered as well. I'll try to get him to 35K health and see how that goes.

Vrienda

Yes please. Until a storymode exists for dungeons (Just let us bring our entire roster if companions or something!) they’re dead content to me. I don’t find them fun and because of the nature of “MMO’s” (Which ESO hardly qualifies as to begin with as per the devs own admission) you can’t stop and listen to all the dialogue without being kicked.

Necrotech_Master

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ive also had problems with companions on the first boss of coral aerie when you have to swim and jump on the ledges, the companions dont "jump down" and will just die

Heavy attack as soon as you get up the ledge, and as soon as you get down, and they will join you. It may be best to swap to a sword and board if you're using an ice staff. I'm guessing if they are in range to do a ranged attack, they won't. But I know for sure they will if they need to be in melee range to target what you just told them to target with the heavy, they will relocate to you. I actually had Bastian tank for most of the bosses the first time I did normal Coral Aerie (with a group) because the tank left.

ill have to try that sometime, i technically didnt need the companion to solo these, so i usually end up just leaving them dead lol, having the companion does make it significantly easier to solo though

spartaxoxo

Speaking of Coral Aerie, they were next up on my list of DLC Dungeon stories....

Coral Aerie

https://youtu.be/d0LW2L45_ss

Shipwright's Regret

https://youtu.be/ps8jLnDobdk


BTW does anyone know if companions benefit from the activity finder in some way. Bastian was easier to keep alive tanking for the activity group that I needed to use him with than when I just ported into the same dungeon directly by myself. But, I'm unsure if that was just luck or not. LOL I ended up slotting guard for the first boss, but I didn't have to do that when I used him while he tanked using the activity finder.

tohopka_eso

Thanks for this, I'd prefer a story mode with companion also. Why I have never touched a dungeon in ESO.

MrGhosty

I've been around this game for a long time and with the exception I've learned due to the sheer volume of runs I've done in them I couldn't tell you what any of the stories were. Having a mode that could be done solo to let me actually experience the story and lore would be awesome.

SammyKhajit

@spartaxoxo thank you so much for posting this. Your Bastian is better at staying alive than Sammy’s, even though he is fitted out with heavy armour (health or less damage), Bastian tends to die a lot easier for this one. Are you able to share his build and gears?

spartaxoxo

Sure thing, @SammyKhajit

I suppose since I got this question a couple of times now, might as well share it more detailed this time...


He's currently got a mix of Vigorous and Bolstered gear, I made sure to get him to 35k HP and the rest is bolstered. He's currently sitting 35.1k HP.

His Mace (Vigorous) and Chest (Bolstered) are both purple gear. They are just pieces I happened to find, but they did make a pretty significant difference imo.

His skills are the standard ones most people use, I'd imagine. Provoke, On Guard, Drake's Blood, Kindle, and Basalt Barrier. On Guard in particular is his second cast skill because it scales off his max hp, so having 35k hp is helpful there. Often he can save his heals for when he needs them because he's got on guard going rather than constantly putting Drake's on CD and then not having it when he needs it.

Other things I do to aid his survivability is watch for when a heavy attack is going to appear and heal him to help him survive it. A lot of times I find that a companion will die just because they weren't at full health when they were hit with a heavy, and if you toss them a spot heal yourself, they'll live.

There's some other things I do when I don't feel like soloing it and want him to tank but he's struggling, e.g. slotting some supportive skills, but 9/10 his setup is good enough on it's own that he doesn't require much babysitting.

SammyKhajit

@spartaxoxo thank you so much for this detailed and helpful explanation 😺

This one hasn’t thought of using provoke due to worries that he will die but will give it a go. Purple gears - well, Bastie old boy, this one knows you hate thieving so Mirri and Sammy will go on a crime spree to save up and buy those obscenely $$$ chest armour, but you will be sharing them with Isobel!

Tornaad

I really don't care what else the throw in with it, (even if the story mode just gives us the kind of loot you would get from a delve) I just want to be able to experience the story of the dungeon at my own speed and without having to worry about what speed my group is going at. I want to be able to stop and read the lore books and truly enjoy the content hidden behind the massive number of players who all want to speed through the dungeon as fast as possible.

magnusthorek

I craved a Story Mode for a long time but, by now, if it gets implemented, I'd probably have no motivations for it because most likely I would need to do it in a different character other than my main.

Now, if ZOS makes it repeatable, so players who can't stand/don't have time to level/gear a new character or those with bad memory (also me, he-he) could do it every now and again would be awesome.

Tornaad

magnusthorek wrote: »

I craved a Story Mode for a long time but, by now, if it gets implemented, I'd probably have no motivations for it because most likely I would need to do it in a different character other than my main.

Now, if ZOS makes it repeatable, so players who can't stand/don't have time to level/gear a new character or those with bad memory (also me, he-he) could do it every now and again would be awesome.

They could always reset the quests for everyone and take the skill point away from the quest and attach it to the first time your character completes the final boss in the group version of the dungeon.

spartaxoxo

Earthen Root Enclave
https://youtu.be/3BSAAM2rY7g

Graven Deep
https://youtu.be/LIHdSFzU2lM

I actually uploaded this a few weeks ago, but I forgot to post about it.

amig186

Damn, I never thought a companion would be able to survive that archdruid's breath attack. Maybe they are worth investing into after all.

Tesman85

I heartily support implementing a story mode! It has bugged me since starting doing group dungeons that the quests just zip by incoherently when running the dungeon through with a pug. When I have soloed those dungeons I'm able to, I've seen that many of the quests are actually well written. But they can't be enjoyed with a pug and I feel guilty when asking guildies to do a story run with me (for wasting their time). So there should be an easier difficulty option.

Fortunately I haven't ruined the quests yet with more than one character who was the first to be dungeon-ready. So I can still build for soloing and experience those stories with a bunch of other characters. But then, we run into the problem having bosses and other mechanics that require multiple players in many dungeons. So, a big chunk of content is still unsoloable. Therefore, a story mode option is still needed.

The way I see it, the story mode could be somewhere between public dungeons and present normal difficulty. Basically, it would be designed to be ideally played with an NPC companion. The rewards, of course, should be more restricted. The skill point for the quest is fine, we get those even for certain public dungeon bosses. The gear drops, however, could be reduced to one green item from the final boss - or something similar. No titles or awards would be awarded for a story run. That way the challenge and the reward would be balanced.

This would be one of the biggest positive things I'd like to see in the game. I can always run the "proper" dungeons later with some randoms, but as a story- and questing-fiend I'd like to experience the quests first at my own pace.

I_killed_Vivec

Tesman85 wrote: »

I heartily support implementing a story mode! It has bugged me since starting doing group dungeons that the quests just zip by incoherently when running the dungeon through with a pug. When I have soloed those dungeons I'm able to, I've seen that many of the quests are actually well written. But they can't be enjoyed with a pug and I feel guilty when asking guildies to do a story run with me (for wasting their time). So there should be an easier difficulty option.

Fortunately I haven't ruined the quests yet with more than one character who was the first to be dungeon-ready. So I can still build for soloing and experience those stories with a bunch of other characters. But then, we run into the problem having bosses and other mechanics that require multiple players in many dungeons. So, a big chunk of content is still unsoloable. Therefore, a story mode option is still needed.

The way I see it, the story mode could be somewhere between public dungeons and present normal difficulty. Basically, it would be designed to be ideally played with an NPC companion. The rewards, of course, should be more restricted. The skill point for the quest is fine, we get those even for certain public dungeon bosses. The gear drops, however, could be reduced to one green item from the final boss - or something similar. No titles or awards would be awarded for a story run. That way the challenge and the reward would be balanced.

This would be one of the biggest positive things I'd like to see in the game. I can always run the "proper" dungeons later with some randoms, but as a story- and questing-fiend I'd like to experience the quests first at my own pace.

I was in total agreement, I've said before that it is unfortunate some great stories are locked behind "difficult" content, until this: " ideally played with an NPC companion".

So people who don't want to play with a companion get excluded? And people who don't have access to companions, but do have access to base game dungeons are excluded?

In several threads (particularly the one about overland difficulty) I have commented about the "cheat" that companions provide: if you want harder overland content then don't bring along a companion to make it easier - and if you do then your rewards should be reduced.

The comments I get say that companions don't make that much difference, they get in the way, pull the boss when they shouldn't, die when they shouldn't. And yet here is a thread about how "soloing" with a companion gives a story mode - with people saying that dungeons are so much easier with a companion!

Story mode should not be designed to be played with a companion.

Tesman85

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

I was in total agreement, I've said before that it is unfortunate some great stories are locked behind "difficult" content, until this: " ideally played with an NPC companion".

So people who don't want to play with a companion get excluded? And people who don't have access to companions, but do have access to base game dungeons are excluded?

In several threads (particularly the one about overland difficulty) I have commented about the "cheat" that companions provide: if you want harder overland content then don't bring along a companion to make it easier - and if you do then your rewards should be reduced.

The comments I get say that companions don't make that much difference, they get in the way, pull the boss when they shouldn't, die when they shouldn't. And yet here is a thread about how "soloing" with a companion gives a story mode - with people saying that dungeons are so much easier with a companion!

Story mode should not be designed to be played with a companion.

Oh, I didn't mean that the story mode should be impossible without a companion or anything like that. I meant the difficulty should be designed with using them in mind, like the dungeon difficulty now is designed for a team of four players. And people still solo many dungeons even so. But of course an easier mode should be completeable all alone, that's the very idea. Thus, I merely meant that the difficulty and completion time should be designed to be "just right" with a companion-using player, not that completion should be impossible without a companion. After all, even if many don't use companions, an even greater proportion of players do. Speaking about excluding and so on is, frankly speaking, quite an overreaction when no such thing is meant or even implied.

Tannus15

Tesman85 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

I was in total agreement, I've said before that it is unfortunate some great stories are locked behind "difficult" content, until this: " ideally played with an NPC companion".

So people who don't want to play with a companion get excluded? And people who don't have access to companions, but do have access to base game dungeons are excluded?

In several threads (particularly the one about overland difficulty) I have commented about the "cheat" that companions provide: if you want harder overland content then don't bring along a companion to make it easier - and if you do then your rewards should be reduced.

The comments I get say that companions don't make that much difference, they get in the way, pull the boss when they shouldn't, die when they shouldn't. And yet here is a thread about how "soloing" with a companion gives a story mode - with people saying that dungeons are so much easier with a companion!

Story mode should not be designed to be played with a companion.

Oh, I didn't mean that the story mode should be impossible without a companion or anything like that. I meant the difficulty should be designed with using them in mind, like the dungeon difficulty now is designed for a team of four players. And people still solo many dungeons even so. But of course an easier mode should be completeable all alone, that's the very idea. Thus, I merely meant that the difficulty and completion time should be designed to be "just right" with a companion-using player, not that completion should be impossible without a companion. After all, even if many don't use companions, an even greater proportion of players do. Speaking about excluding and so on is, frankly speaking, quite an overreaction when no such thing is meant or even implied.

as long as some companions are added to the base game instead of being a DLC exclusive. just like battle grounds were added to the base game i think a companion per "faction" would be a good addition.

honestly "story mode" is my guess for the "long requested feature" they are teasing. it opens up a lot of content to people who otherwise avoid it and they might actually feel more comfortable joining a group after they have seen the dungeon and know what to expect.

Syldras

Tannus15 wrote: »

honestly "story mode" is my guess for the "long requested feature" they are teasing. it opens up a lot of content to people who otherwise avoid it and they might actually feel more comfortable joining a group after they have seen the dungeon and know what to expect.

They've announced it will be a new type of activity. I don't think having an extra easy mode or a difficulty slider for content really fits that desciption. Don't understand me wrong; I'm all for a story mode for dungeons and trials. I just don't think this is what they have in mind this year (or maybe at least not as the "new system" for Q4).

TheImperfect

I hear said that you should go with someone who agrees to do story mode but trying that is not an adequate solution.

What happens if you have voice chat is dialogue gets talked over. (OK so you don't have to voice chat) Spells get spammed during dialogue so you can't concentrate. Also if the other players are doing the same quest and skip dialogue then it skips it for everyone and you miss bits. Also you should get at least a full five minutes before the dungeon timer at the end kicks you out.

BretonMage

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

In several threads (particularly the one about overland difficulty) I have commented about the "cheat" that companions provide: if you want harder overland content then don't bring along a companion to make it easier - and if you do then your rewards should be reduced.

The comments I get say that companions don't make that much difference, they get in the way, pull the boss when they shouldn't, die when they shouldn't. And yet here is a thread about how "soloing" with a companion gives a story mode - with people saying that dungeons are so much easier with a companion!

I think I remember your comment in that thread. Have you used a companion yourself? Curious if you think they make that much of a difference, because my experience is that they don't make a world of difference - 10% difference, maybe? Most of the time, my Bastian dies to bosses in DLC and vet base game dungeons, and I either end up finishing without him, or I don't at all (eg. can do FH and Icereach with or without him, can't do MHK or MoS at all with or without him). In this thread, I suspect spartaxoxo is able to solo all of these dungeons by themself anyway, as I think it takes just as much or more skill to manage a mechanic-heavy dungeon while keeping a tank companion alive.

But in any case, I agree that story mode should be designed for players without companions (not, as I always maintain, that it makes that much of a difference).

spartaxoxo

Scrivener Hall

https://youtu.be/qLlaiWFNfxk?si=PWa-VY5Xv4yu24cp

Bal Sunnar

https://youtu.be/cjJfNNUoNGk?si=2NoZlOwvhAPNTtbD

I found the visuals in Ban Sunnar to be a bit annoying during the boss fights. I slowed down a couple of visuals because I figured if the flashes were annoying me, they might cause headaches or something for others. I obviously can't guarantee that Bal Sunnar isn't still too flashy. They use a lot of the same visual principles of the Arcanist throughout the Bal Sunnar boss fights.

Remathilis

Facefister wrote: »

I am ok with a story mode as long as they don't drop gear, title and skins.

Skins and titles I agree. Same with monster helmets. But I got no problem with dropping green or blue dungeon sets, along with the quest skill point.

cyberjanet

majulook wrote: »

But ESO is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game (MMORPG), and a very social game. If that's not what your experiencing or you want play it with no other players. I can understand that but the content is for everyone. Easy mode, Storybook mode, Solo mode what ever you want to call it. If its not the Normal / Vet Dungeon or Trial mode, than you should not reap any of the rewards that are given out in Normal or Vet modes.

Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing game.
Why does Massively Multiplayer get preferential treatment to Online Role-Playing? Why can't the Online Role-playing people have nice stuff too?

evan302

This would be a really nice addition to the game. I have done one dungeon so far and while everyone waited so the quest could be completed, it felt a bit rushed and I was very conscious that people were doing me a favour by waiting around.
Did I feel motivated to jump in and do loads more dungeons after that? No, not at all.

With One Tamriel we don't have the option of waiting until we out-level the content. If you can't solo something today, you probably won't be able to solo it in the future. So I really appreciate this thread and all the hard work the OP has put into it.

A story mode would be great for people like me who want to enjoy the story, it would also be nice for people wanting to learn mechanics on a blind run. That's how I used it in my last MMO and lots of people did the same. We got to see the story, learned how the boss fights worked and when we hit Party Finder, we didn't slow people down and we had some idea of what we were doing.

spartaxoxo

Remathilis wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

I am ok with a story mode as long as they don't drop gear, title and skins.

Skins and titles I agree. Same with monster helmets. But I got no problem with dropping green or blue dungeon sets, along with the quest skill point.

The problem with the sets is there's not much reason to join group queue if not for the sets. I'd be okay with the skill point and exp from mob kills in story mode. However, I think all group drops needed to remain group queue only to protect the health of that queue. No leads. No gear. No Activity Finder Rewards. No Undaunted Dailies. No Keys. IMO Personally, I'd even go so far as classify the story mode bosses as sweepers, so they didn't count for endeavors or events either.

old_scopie1945

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

Looks cool. I think the main pain point of story mode supporters is they want to play with their own rythm. 4 people who want to listen every dialogue and fool around at every corner will raeraly, very very rarely, be in same party. Therefore a story mode will enable a new way to play for casuals.

Cons: If the rewards wont be reduced appropriately, everyone will start playing story mode to get what they want (undaunted/gear). They will be forced into it because they are players, they have to get from point A to point B by shortest route.

Whatever, when will we talk about veteran overland and veteran questing content?

I agree.This is why I don't think it should give credit for pledges or drop set pieces. I do think the first time you do it, it should count for some small amount of Undaunted skill line credit. No different than the public dungeons. But that's about as rewarding as it should get. No gear sets, no skill point, no keys or transmute crystals. Should be about on par with the rewards of doing a delve, minus the 5pc gear sets.

I don't want people to do it because it's rewarding, but because they want to hear the story. I don't want middle finger type punishments like no exp but doing it on normal group should still be superior for rewards.

I agree with you 90%. The sticking point is the skill point. The skill point is the reward for doing the quest for the first time. The number of times I have missed out on the skill point because of speed runners preventing me doing the quest are numerous. The story mode will allow you to do the quest at your own pace. There is a number of quests with long dialogue in order to complete it for the skill point. Therefore in my opinion a story mode goes hand in hand with the skill point. That's it, story mode and skill point plus what XP you have gained and nothing else. Pledges are part of the Undaunted as well as the daily delves, and corresponding rewards are part of it in my opinion. I solo base game pledges to progress the Undaunted line, but that is not so easy for some. DLCs are another matter. Story mode along with the skill point reward only need to be done once and may be the answer.

Your vid points out the time, effort and money used to make the quest story. All that talented voice acting also gone to waste in the current format. It makes me think how little ZOS understands human nature.

spartaxoxo

Oh hey, I just realized I never actually uploaded Gold Road dungeons. I actually already put in prep work for that. So I'll try to remember to do that soon.

Mods dungeons only get dropped once a year so please don't close this. I know I missed last year but that's because I forgot and no longer get a reminder in Q3!

I'd prefer to keep the videos all in one place!