Are nighblades killing cyrodiil?

Kravz

/rude

Sephyr

Can uh... Can we kill something that's technically already dead (just on life support)?

VaranisArano

Nah, the Wardens got there first and did most of the work. The Nightblade just jumped in there with the execute and is trying to claim the killing blow. Or was that the Sorc, calling down lightning on every low health target in range?

I've now seen threads blaming all three classes for killing Cyrodiil.

So clearly the answer to balancing Cyrodiil is to immediately remove all Wardens, Nightblades, and Sorcerors.
Then, Necromancers, because sometimes they kill me.
Oh, and Templars too, because they make it harder for me to kill people.

Just don't remove Dragonknights because that's what I play.

Janus_Cruenti

Nightblades are extremely annoying, but not of a problem when it comes to serious objectives that are captured in a group anyway. Plus there are abilities that allow you to relatively effective counter them. For warden, I don't get see them problem with them.

TBois

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nah, the Wardens got there first and did most of the work. The Nightblade just jumped in there with the execute and is trying to claim the killing blow. Or was that the Sorc, calling down lightning on every low health target in range?

I've now seen threads blaming all three classes for killing Cyrodiil.

So clearly the answer to balancing Cyrodiil is to immediately remove all Wardens, Nightblades, and Sorcerors.
Then, Necromancers, because sometimes they kill me.
Oh, and Templars too, because they make it harder for me to kill people.

Just don't remove Dragonknights because that's what I play.

They've already clipped your wings...

Man, I never played dk, but I miss the days dk's could leap into keeps if the ppl defending stood too close to the ledge. It made seiging much more interesting. Even if I was left to click seige I could have some fun watching the dk's cause havoc.

Dojohoda

The good old days of DK. When I pvped on dk(2015), I would gloriously leap in, (and if I didn't break through the world), pin them all down, and spin to win.

hundergrn

You see... the problem with Nightblades isn't that they are overpowered in PvP, its that they take some skill to play.

Magblades be squishy as f in PvP. Healing reduction kills their main survival tools. Is heavily reliant on timing, debuffs, buffs, and dots.
Stamblades are not as bad as Magblades but still pretty squish.
Gankblades are annoying, yes, but Snipe and relentless focus have loud announcements, poor track, travel time. Outside of abusing lag, they are opportunists that go down easily after dodging the initial burst. Easily countered by multiple detection methods.
Bombblades are similar to gankblades.

-Relentless focus proc has a loud warning at the beginning of its animation and a rather long animation, travel time, poor tracking.
-Shadow Cloak/Shadowy Disguise is buggy and gets ripped away easily by any debuff, LA still track towards you, detect pots tend to break it completely, pets too.
-Ambush/Lotus fan is only good on chase or surprise. As a gap closer, it loses out to sorc and dk gap closers (probably others too). If your ambush is still in animation or closing the gap, the opposing gap closer wins every time.
-Swallow Soul's self heal is just about useless in pvp. Typically high resistances and battle spirit heal debuff makes it a very very weak health sustain. Its travel time at distance and sub par tracking make it an easy dodge as well.
-Leeching strikes is helpful but is mostly used for sustain only as it heals very little in pvp.
-Soul teether is reliant on distance, within 10m. Breaks as soon as that distance is overcome. Channel time leaves NB susceptible to easy death even when close to full health in group situations. Not that useful in 1v1/2/3 situation unless paired with fear.
- Mass Hysteria be a 3 sec stun, easy to break free less lag gets you. Does nothing else. Limited to 6. Bad for balls. Good for a hopeful opening to gtfo, burst proc, or ult but not much else.

All above skills have been nerfed multiple times due to player complaints, NB has been bottom tier meta since shortly after Morrowwind expac came out. Their toolkits have been thrashed time and time again... they are the og weavers, dependent on LA, ambush, and surprise. They require being built to a purpose and lack flexibility to survive an encounter once countered.

Relegated to the patient troll/ganker or skilled player that just loves the class... they are no DK, leaping tanks of resistance shattering death... they are no sorc, frag cannon streaky happy lighting boi w/pets always in the way..... they are no templar, jab happy immortal while in my circle... they are no warden (what ever the f they do cause its always their templar/sorc friend that jumps in for the final blow).

Are NB killing Cyrodill? No, they are playing with the cards they have cause the big bois kicked them out of the tree house a long time ago. Pushed to the shadows to be opportunists and religious bombers due to their lack of sustain in a proper fight. They are the outcast rogue that makes the long treks on the boring plains of Cyrodil fear inducing, they are the risk you take when you travel alone to your destination, they are the unseen unknown that keeps you on your toes.

Side Note: NB camping quest givers should be shot on sight. That there is uncouth and has no honor.

rabidmyers

yes they are killing cyrodiil ahahahhahahahahahahha.... get it?

Katahdin

Lag and poor server performance are killing Cyrodiil

spacefracking

No way... Magblade requires me use every ability on both bars during a particularly difficult 1v1. Lots of timing. When I see sorcs, wardens, etc running around fighting with like 4 abilities (or less) and getting kills, it makes me a jealous, but I like being able to sneak around.

Gankers are glass cannons anyway. You have your bow gankers, blade gankers, and bombblades. The best bow gankers can take players down in 1-3 shots, which is a bit much. Its mostly due to sets like Morag Tong and Deadly-- stat based sets. Blade gankers hit really hard too this patch. And bombblades pull off what they do so easily this patch because of vicious death.

What it comes down to though.. is that PVP requires defenses to survive. Most of these can be avoided by either wearing more armor, keeping major/minor resolve up, roll dodging, blocking, fast break free response times, line of sighting, staying on a back bar with defensive weapon trait, slotting radiant magelight to auto-block sneak attacks, etc etc etc.

To sum it up: have to pay attention and not run a glass cannon build if you wish to stay alive.

Except vicious death. I can't believe they buffed it. So cursed. Good bombers could do it during no proc, but now its everyone.

heng14rwb17_ESO

CARPET BOMBARMENT !
NUCLEAR BOMBARMENT !
PRECISE TARGET BOMBARMENT !

Cadbury

If Nightblades are truly killing Cyrodiil, I can't see them...

...

...

...


Get it? Cause they're cloak- *dies*

LonePirate

hundergrn wrote: »

You see... the problem with Nightblades isn't that they are overpowered in PvP, its that they take some skill to play.

Oh please. NBs are by far the easiest class to play in Cyrodiil nowadays. All it takes is a few minutes to learn the timing and then you do nothing but hit Cloak, fire up Prox Det and follow-it up with Soul Tether just before the actual detonation while wearing Vicious Death and you can easily do 40K+ damage to several enemies at once. It's the closest thing to a one shot mechanic I have seen with player skills since this game launched. I could teach a four year old to do what NBs are doing in Cyrodiil lately.

Bucky_13

No.
Next question?

xylena_lazarow

Invis Cloak should have a ramping cost increase like Streak.

If you don't like that idea, then how about we remove the ramping cost increase from Streak...

LonePirate

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Invis Cloak should have a ramping cost increase like Streak.

If you don't like that idea, then how about we remove the ramping cost increase from Streak...

I was going to suggest that Prox Det should take the player (even NBs) out of stealth/cloak once it is cast. A ramping increase to a skill cost doesn't really solve this issue.

Ackwalan

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Invis Cloak should have a ramping cost increase like Streak.

If you don't like that idea, then how about we remove the ramping cost increase from Streak...

Cloak and streak are two vastly different skills. Cloak allows a NB to reset a fight, streak will stun cause damage and allow the Sorc to reposition. If cloak were to get a ramping cost, it should also get a buff like damage and fear AOE.

HanStolo

performance of the servers are killing cyrodiil.

Amottica

Noobie here so please disregard my comments as they are mostly based on experience in other MMORPGs. So if a class tends to be challenging then it seems the best course of action is to figure out how to counter what seems to make that class so challenging.

vesselwiththepestle

LonePirate wrote: »

I was going to suggest that Prox Det should take the player (even NBs) out of stealth/cloak once it is cast. A ramping increase to a skill cost doesn't really solve this issue.

The cast itself already takes out of stealth. So if you keep your eyes open there is a high chance you will notice a bomber around. If you can't keep the bomb invisible after, you will make it impossible to use proxy as a counter against big groups / zergs, it will then be a ball group only tool.

xylena_lazarow

Ackwalan wrote: »

Cloak and streak are two vastly different skills. Cloak allows a NB to reset a fight, streak will stun cause damage and allow the Sorc to reposition.

Streak is a one-way ticket due to the ramping cost. Cloak lets you nigh infinitely engage, disengage, and reset. If they spam AoE, you simply spam Cloak in return. If they use detection, you shade port out of their detect pot or Magelight radius and resume nigh infinite invisibility. Yes I have played both specs quite a bit, an AR50 stamblade and an AR44 stamsorc.

master_vanargand

If you use the pot correctly, the NB will become garbage.
Unfortunately there is no pot to kill Sorc.

Scamandros

Nightblades architected the tri-alliance war

Xelyum

Maybe if the detection skills/pots behaved like the NPC detections where there's a ball of light circling around the detected player for a few seconds it would be fine, but it doesn't, and they just run away and cloak again.

DrSlaughtr

Shadowy Disguise isn't cheap and it only lasts 3 seconds. A stamblade can only hit it a couple times in a row. A magblade with a bigger pool can use it more but it still limits their ability to go on the offensive.

If you ever play a NB you will learn a few things.

1 Shadowy is buggy as hell. There are plenty of times you will hit it and immediately get pulled out because of a dot or debuff you didn't even know was on you.

2 There is a long running detect bug that will just prevent you from going stealthing for a minute, forcing you to spam SD until you're hiding behind a rock or something until it let's you stealth.

3 literally anything will yank me out. Any aoe. Revealing flare. Caltrops. Fear totem. Frozen gate. Every single player has access to a NB killer skill. But you have to slot it and use it.

4 Spotting bombers is so easy. You just have to get better at paying attention to areas they will use to proc. Also if you have less than 28k health don't be a hero. Stand back and watch for bombers. Be ready to start firing when they exist stealth.

5 Detect pots work perfectly. You just are expecting too much from them. They aren't going to kill my for you. Same with Sentry.

Bombers ARE overturned right now but it won't last. They buffed VD for dumb reasons so now we gotta just live with it for a few months.

Xelyum

TheEndBringer wrote: »

5 Detect pots work perfectly. You just are expecting too much from them. They aren't going to kill my for you. Same with Sentry.

Well, detection pots work as well as communism does : only in theory.

Nightblades always have the same pattern :
surprise attack for the stun,
burst combo,
move on if enemy is dead,
if not, dodgeroll--> cloak
detection pot up ? Not a problem, use ambush for burst and dodgeroll cloak, the enemy can't keep up with your speed anyway.

Cloak is busted for one reason : It has no lose condition.
Nightblades are always going "boo hoo my cloak has many weaknesses and I have no survivability outside of it" yet somehow they have more CC than other classes, more burst than other classes, only second to sorcs when it comes to escaping, but hey "detection pots are OP QQ".

Nightblades are busted, they have no warning signs for when they're nearby, their biggest "weakness" is as strong as most other class' strengths and they have the highest burst damage out of every class.

Edit : Oh, and forgot to add, taking damage does nothing to the cloak, I stack dots on NB players as soon as I see them but they just don't care, always the same pattern : dodge roll, cloak, disappear for 5 solid seconds.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

If you really think about it, it was Cyrodiil that more or less killed off the nightblade.

Tommy_The_Gun

I can't tell. I don't see any "living" NBs in Cyro or IC....

Edit: Is it just me or "nerf x thing" threads appear 1000% more often during MYM when a lot of new players or pve-ers that are new to pvp are playing ?

Sephyr

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I can't tell. I don't see any "living" NBs in Cyro or IC....

Edit: Is it just me or "nerf x thing" threads appear 1000% more often during MYM when a lot of new players or pve-ers that are new to pvp are playing ?

It's definitely not you. I think that some people who go into these events without any prior intimate knowledge or experience with Cyrodiil/IC or their mechanics, they want it nerfed because they don't understand how to counter various PvP mechanics.

xylena_lazarow

TheEndBringer wrote: »

If you ever play a NB you will learn a few things... There are plenty of times you will hit it and immediately get pulled out because of a dot or debuff you didn't even know was on you.... literally anything will yank me out... Detect pots work perfectly.

AR50 stamblade here. If you ever play a NB you will learn that with practice it becomes much easier for you evade their Cloak counters and return to invisibility, than it is for them to keep their Cloak counters active. Dot suppression is extremely powerful. Building magicka sustain into a stamblade has become much easier. The radius of detect pots and other detection abilities is not as wide as you may think. Yes there are times when you are being zerged that it feels like Cloak does nothing, but any NB saying Cloak isn't good hasn't been using it to its full potential.

DrSlaughtr

Xelyum wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

5 Detect pots work perfectly. You just are expecting too much from them. They aren't going to kill my for you. Same with Sentry.

Well, detection pots work as well as communism does : only in theory.

Nightblades always have the same pattern :
surprise attack for the stun,
burst combo,
move on if enemy is dead,
if not, dodgeroll--> cloak
detection pot up ? Not a problem, use ambush for burst and dodgeroll cloak, the enemy can't keep up with your speed anyway.

Cloak is busted for one reason : It has no lose condition.
Nightblades are always going "boo hoo my cloak has many weaknesses and I have no survivability outside of it" yet somehow they have more CC than other classes, more burst than other classes, only second to sorcs when it comes to escaping, but hey "detection pots are OP QQ".

Nightblades are busted, they have no warning signs for when they're nearby, their biggest "weakness" is as strong as most other class' strengths and they have the highest burst damage out of every class.

Edit : Oh, and forgot to add, taking damage does nothing to the cloak, I stack dots on NB players as soon as I see them but they just don't care, always the same pattern : dodge roll, cloak, disappear for 5 solid seconds.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Status effects and dots will kill stealth every tick. Can you hit stealth again? Yes. But it will continue to happen until the dot or status effect ends.

You're mad at a gank who is not going to wipe a group or stop them from taking a location without help. I get the saltiness over bombers right now but that's an issue with sets, not the class.

Run flare. Run an aoe like caltrops. Get a Necro to run totem. Get a warden to drop gate. Don't get caught alone. Etc etc.

To the other person, yes, there are a million of these NB nerf threads because of MYM.