Start some momentum behind a DK buff

Bl4ckR3alm93

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Not even fully buffed, only igneous weapons. CP not optimized for damage (so no CP results similar).



At least be honest about skills and how much they should be scaled. Scaling them to about 1.5x would be ridiculous, and considering the skill can be used with less restriction than either shalks or blastbones (as long as you are near a target), it's too much of a buff to the skill damage-wise.

We'd just have another skill doing the damage of an ultimate and it's not healthy for the game.

There is another idea if you think your DK's damage is too low: run a real damage build. If you do that first instead of using some strange heavy armor build that you know isn't working, then maybe you might gain more support.

Spreading misinformation or pretending the change wouldn't be a massive buff? Nah.

Im a MagDK main and I can definitely confirm that Deep Breath hits this hard in PVE. Deep Breath definitely does NOT need a damage buff like you said lol. I sometimes crit over 35k Deep Breaths in dungeons/trials fully buffed and proc'd with BSW+Skoira+Maw.

Deep Breath just needs a cost reduction is all. Between 2500-3000 magika. Warmth does need to be changed to either minor sorcery, increased flame damage of some sort or something else that helps with sustain. After that I think MagDK will be fine in my opinion. I was thinking the other day that maybe Warmth can be changed to something similar to the old Implosion as a unique execute for us since were already an unique class, just make it balanced

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Implosion

Bl4ckR3alm93

Veg wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Deep breath could certainly use a look at, although I don't think it should simply be reworked to be a DK delayed burst clone of blastbones/shalks. It's just making DK work like other classes. Not sure what it should do though - but at the moment I agree it does seem to be doing too many things and none of them particularly well so could use a bit of focusing of its function.

When morphed from inhale, the new effect for Deep Breath is more damage. I think furthering that damage is the most reasonable buff we can ask for. Blast bones and shalk came after Deep Breath and basically took everything great from the ability and dropped all the useless parts. If anything, they are copies of Deep Breath.

Inhale seems to break into 2 categories when morphed, healing and damage. Draw Essence get a 50% boost on the healing and some sustain. Deep Breath gets a small boost in damage and a possible stun. So we should just ask to have each morph be pushed further down that path. More damage and no healing for deep breath. Right now the only real difference between the two morphs is that Deep Breath can stun and Draw Essence returns magic.

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

I know its harping on about older design ideas but to me DKs should still be all about DoTs, and more recently the molten whip mini game. The problem is that for quite a while (apart from the one update) DoTs haven't been great as a focus and burst has been more successful, due to a lack of DoT damage and also ready access to purge for some classes. I would much prefer to see a change that somehow makes this conceptual playstyle more viable so it would need to address the current issues with DoTs.

I don't think DK will ever be able to use it's DoTs effectively in PvP. Simply because they're done over 14 seconds. If you had 100% pen then you would need 28k damage on your tooltip for your DoT to do 1k damage per second. Unless the timer for the DoT abilities gets down to 10s, DK's will never be able to use DoTs effectively.

A standard Mag DK may have 16-18k damage on burning embers in PvP. That's 500-640 damage per second if you have 100% pen. Applying a 10% damage buff doesn't really do anything since the damage value is so low making it difficult to further buff your damage from things like engulfing flames.

Looking back at DoT procs, they would hit for about 1.5k-2.5k per second. Even looking at soul trap, you'll do more damage per second than any DK DoT.

Deep Breath is fine damage wise. It needs a cost reduction is all. ZOS needs to change Warmth to a damage or sustain passive. That way all the other abilities (including Deep Breath) will get a damage buff across the board.

I have an idea, how about change Warmth to a execute similar to how Implosion worked in the pass for Sorcerers? It would be unique since DK's are already a unique class. I think this will make every DK user happy especially when we dont have an execute in the first place

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Implosion

the1andonlyskwex

Amottica wrote: »

Is that a single target or AoE interrupt associated with Deep Breath? If it is an AoE interrupt then I would suggest the skill is not comparable to the two others skills OP is matching it with. An AoE interrupt is

The interrupt is AoE.

While I agree that magDKs need some help, what the OP is proposing isn't the right approach. The OP's proposal completely discards (or ignores) the PvE utility of Deep Breath's interrupt, and tries to steal Minor Sorcery from Templars, neither of which are good ideas. It also does almost nothing to address sustain (particularly in single target situations), which is magDK's primary problem.

The focus should be on magDK sustain, probably starting with the Combustion and Battle Roar passives. Burst/execute damage and group support (for healers) are also issues, but they're secondary to the sustain problem.

Bl4ckR3alm93

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Is that a single target or AoE interrupt associated with Deep Breath? If it is an AoE interrupt then I would suggest the skill is not comparable to the two others skills OP is matching it with. An AoE interrupt is

The interrupt is AoE.

While I agree that magDKs need some help, what the OP is proposing isn't the right approach. The OP's proposal completely discards (or ignores) the PvE utility of Deep Breath's interrupt, and tries to steal Minor Sorcery from Templars, neither of which are good ideas. It also does almost nothing to address sustain (particularly in single target situations), which is magDK's primary problem.

The focus should be on magDK sustain, probably starting with the Combustion and Battle Roar passives. Burst/execute damage and group support (for healers) are also issues, but they're secondary to the sustain problem.

Mhhmm I agree or make Warmth like the old Implosion ( but flame damage obviously ). Deep Breath heals, stuns, sets off balance and does alot of damage. I rather ZOS change Warmth to Sustain, Damage, or execute passive ( but balanced to about 3k-5k flame damage and physical and/or poison damage ( whichever is more balanced for StamDK ) and ( at low health 10% or 15% )

Veg

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Is that a single target or AoE interrupt associated with Deep Breath? If it is an AoE interrupt then I would suggest the skill is not comparable to the two others skills OP is matching it with. An AoE interrupt is

The interrupt is AoE.

While I agree that magDKs need some help, what the OP is proposing isn't the right approach. The OP's proposal completely discards (or ignores) the PvE utility of Deep Breath's interrupt, and tries to steal Minor Sorcery from Templars, neither of which are good ideas. It also does almost nothing to address sustain (particularly in single target situations), which is magDK's primary problem.

The focus should be on magDK sustain, probably starting with the Combustion and Battle Roar passives. Burst/execute damage and group support (for healers) are also issues, but they're secondary to the sustain problem.

I never mentioned anything about discarding the stun/interrupt. I even wrote about why having a higher damage burst with the stun still active wouldn't create an over powered ability (they dont synergize well). As for my warmth suggestion, its just that. A suggestion. We could ask for ult gen, the explosion proc that only applies to some pve mobs or a flame version of implosion. My main point was with Deep Breath.

As for everyone here stating that deep breath does good enough damage because they can crit for 20k+ in pve, thats not good enough reasoning. Talons can also crit for over 20k when your hitting some mobs in pve. Heck impulse spam will do that just fine. You have show that the skill is still useful in either end game pve groups or pvp.

In pvp this ability falls short in every way possible. High cost, low damage, target requirement to activate the damage, etc, etc. The change I proposed would change a 10k tooltip to a 15k tooltip and remove only the healing effect from the ability. For a better frame of reference, Mag leap sits at 20k with deep breath at 10k.

The problem with deep breaths damage in pvp is that the ability will min/max at 10k damage +/- 2.5k. That's 5k damage before accounting for your targets resistance. Actual damage done will range from 3-6k.

Here is an example of deep breath maxing out at 6k damage on a 500 ult balorgs on an already min/maxed build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-aesGFgYVs



This same build on a warden or necro would do more damage on each target with a simple db + AoE combo without proxy det. For an ability that costs 4k magic and requires you to hit a target to start the timer on the damage, its just not enough.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

What wish would happen:
1. Change one of the morphs to a stamina spammable, remove it's delay burst, and turn it to a poison cleave that possibly has takes the stagger debuff(similar to the stomp of stone giant but with no cast time)

2. Make the other morphs do fire damage up front, and have its damaged increased by the amount of targets hit for more cleave.

3. Swap skill lines of Inhale with chains, so that ardent flame can be a true DPS line, and have its damaged be increased by searing heat passive.

Alternatively: I would change searing heart(or warmth)to effect all poison and fire damage from class abilities in proportion to the targets remaining HP, sort like the opposite of the the sorcs amplitude passive.