Do I need a build?

Icy_Waffles

All this comes down to this:

Do you want to just quest and do solo stuff? No build.

Do you want to do group content including group dungeons? Get a build or prepare to often be kicked.

amm7sb14_ESO

Chuck_Finley wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Chuck_Finley wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

If you do not understand the core combat mechanics of this game, you may believe that you do not need a build or any practice. This is an ignorant mindset. There is great in game benefit to yourself and to others by increasing your understanding of the game, including how to stack skills, sets, passives, cp, food and potions to gain the maximum effect for what every avenue your pursuing. You friends will likely acknowledge your improvement should you be willing to put aside any ego that is pushing you to not learn the game.

Many good players do test builds and put these out for the public to digest. Its just a service they do and they should be applauded for doing it. No one needs to use their stuff but I dislike the arrogance of someone knocking the efforts of other players. It doesn't make anyone cool or edgy. Its unlike they know anyone who doesn't use their builds and if they did it wouldn't be worth losing any sleep over.

I disagree. Guides like Alcast / Xynode / Hack The Minotaur / Nefas etc. actively make the game worse. And it's for all the reasons why you say people are being "arrogant" about it.

People take these build guides as gospel, and then proceed to gate-keep content behind it. Content creators like this end up with a voice and influence with the ZOS devs, and the game continues to be designed around these metas. Nobody would have any arrogance against these content creators and these builds if the people running these builds weren't trying to claim exclusive domain over access to end-game content. Nobody is trying to be "edgy".

Who are these people that take a youtubers build as gospel and prevent anyone from doing content in this game? I have never seen anyone gate-keep content from a good player, ever. I'm not saying that doesn't happen but I have never encountered it in this game. Not even once. The only content I avoid is latest vet trial hard mode/achievement progression groups. And quite frankly if you are in a latest content vet hard mode trial group you aren't using these beginner youtube builds. You are using team buffing builds that synergize well with the rest of the trail group.

I've been in trials before where people got kicked because the trial leader found out someone wasn't running the sets he wanted them to, or didn't have the add-on's he wanted them to. I see and hear stories all the time of people getting kicked out of trial guilds because they didn't parse 65k minimum. Countless trial leaders will require videos of your parses so they can see your numbers. I see guild recruitment posts all the time with parse minimum requirements for entry. I personally have been told I am not truly a tank because I don't wear Yolna / Alkosh, and I have people say to me they "feel sorry for my guild" for letting me tank for them. I have even had people literally dispute me on the content clears I do have, saying it is impossible to have those clears because I don't wear the Alcast meta builds.

On a lesser scale, you see it in the dungeon queue when someone insta-drops because someone in the group isn't a desired CP level, desired class / role combination, or the vote kicks to kick someone who isn't wearing the expected gear setups.

People gate-keeping vet level content for exclusively meta and fully optimized min / maxed builds is as common in this game as breathing. It happens everywhere you turn. I honestly don't believe that you are 1. in this game and 2. part of the online community and have never seen gate-keeping in vet level content.

Lol ok I see the problem right here, you attack me for saying I've never seen the community gate content behind youtubers beginner builds. Give evidence where people aren't being kicked because of youtubers builds but because they want a CP level high enough to clear content and of DPS minimums not being met on parses. You claim I must not really play this game to have not seen it and honestly I think your attitude has a lot more to do with people not wanting to play with you than your gear. CP level being low and DPS not being met for trial content isn't the fault of a youtuber build.

You're doing a whole lot of projection and assuming. I have no problem finding people to play with. I have a whole guild full of people to play with - people who want to play with me, and enjoy and appreciate the way I play the game.

Trust me - I do not lack for people to play with in this game.

amm7sb14_ESO

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

@fred4 Except he didn't say youtuber followers. He said content creators make the game worse. And thats just as obtuse as all the examples you use for your own anecdotal evidence. And thats the crux of my argument. There are many rude and obtuse players in the game, but take care that your also not one of them. So many folks have no self awareness about their own quality of tolerance for others. Folks demand acceptance then do not offer it to others.

The desire to play nonmeta builds in the "competitive" difficulty levels speaks volumes about who a person is as a person.... obtuse. But even worse are the many folks that aren't anywhere near that level of difficulty and mock those players that are for their dedication to the game. It's the fox and the grapes and they call content creator sour because they will never enjoy the fruits of their labors.

Talks about people being obtuse, but then displays the same obtuse behavior he tries to knock others for,

Vet trials are not "competitive". There are competitive achievements to it if you are shooting for leaderboards or titles. But vet content itself is not "competitive". So you are displaying the same sort of elitist attitude that I am talking about when you are trying to knock people for trying to play vet content in non-meta sets. You are displaying the behaviors that I am talking about entirely.

zaria

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

AppleJuiceBox2 wrote: »

Pretty much this. Do I truly need to go to alcast or some guru and do a build? I know it’s okay your way. If I play my way and do whatever is it really hindering me from content or some groups if I want to experience the game. I’m not in to that whole min/max scene or crazy crap in WoW.

No, you do not need to go to Alcast or any other build guides.

You can complete literally any content in this game without min / maxed meta builds.

Meta builds might be more necessary if you want to do leaderboard / trifecta trial runs. But if you just want clears, you can complete even vet trials without a min / maxed meta build from Alcast.

More to the point, many of the min / maxed meta build is hard to keep up not only requiring an very precise rotation but also support and heals, magic build is more likely to run out of magic as magic has lower sustain compensated by healer sustain sets. In dungeons you don't get that most of the time, yes an competent healer drops shards or balls.
But in an pug healer assumes this is your dungeon group.

and your job it to do most of the damage while keeping the chickens alive

ibkickin

Just throwing my opinion out there, but I'd say yes. It pains me to say it as I've always hated metas but even if you don't do endgame and are a casual at heart, it'll eventually eat away at you knowing you could be doing more than you already are. I myself have experienced this multiple times and while I try not to follow a meta or popular build religiously, I'll try to be aware of it and work around it.

Stormvessel

You do not need a build starting out. You need XP. Make sure the class you choose is the class you really want to play, and just jump in and level. It don't matter what you choose, as long as you keep leveling. Once you hit level 50 you should be swimming in gold - so you can choose your build then and respec. And by then you will have a better understanding of the game's intricacies.

amm7sb14_ESO

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

So the real question(s) is(are): Why do you want to be weaker? Why do you want to take longer to do the same content?

Because playing a variety of builds is funner than "cLeAriNg tHe cOnTenT fAsTeSt"

It's boring using the same 3 builds over and over and over again. It is fun to come up with unique and individual concepts, themes, and playstyles. The game has hundreds of sets for a reason.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Why are people so sure on these builds?

How do you know they are even decent players?

Iccotak

Simple answer:

For "Overland / Story" content = No, you do not need a build. Basic gear and skills will be fine because Overland is incredibly simple that nothing will ever challenge you except for the isolated group events like Dolmens & World Bosses.

For Content such as Dungeons/Arenas/Trials = Yes, you will need to actively work on a competent build. That content will have expectations of the player and so you will have to work on your builds and player skill to perform well. Whether solo or with a group.

tenryuta

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why are people so sure on these builds?

How do you know they are even decent players?

human botting, and fighting a defenseless innocent dummy with infinite amounts of epeen sadism, the moment a boss moves out of the way, or casts a less common scripted aoe for their exact rotation(botting) they cry over not having 900000 on their dpsmeter.

marvel heroes died to me when it became all about the dummy ttk, and nothing but, and all the characters ruined by the devs re:pass of many characters that didnt need to be ruined, glad it died... just wish it was over the devs designs instead of legal issues.

im all for a theme, not build, namely spellsword, on every class, cherry picking skills from everywhere to make my character the beezknees, currently my sorc is decked in ember and k.slayer(good damage, but heavy only attack is easily not spellswordy, so itll go sooner or later)

WrathOfInnos

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why are people so sure on these builds?

How do you know they are even decent players?

Valid point. There are a lot of poor builds out there, often with fake parses (not using gear or skills advertised, sometimes with buffs from a friend). Even with good ones you have to be careful, if it’s over 3 months old there’s a good chance some of the gear or skills have been nerfed, which could have significant impact on the whole build.

AppleJuiceBox2

Thanks everyone. Im looking it over and decided to just do what I want but keep it in regards to at least one of each skill. Outside of that now its less stressful by not worrying if im picking something good or crappy.

Kadraeus

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

All this comes down to this:

Do you want to just quest and do solo stuff? No build.

Do you want to do group content including group dungeons? Get a build or prepare to often be kicked.

Idk about you, but I never put much effort into my build besides "this makes me a lil bit stronger," and I've never been kicked from dungeons. It really isn't that serious. You don't need a 3rd party guide to tell you how to play the game. If that were the case, then that would make the game poorly designed, in my opinion. I think the game does a decent job explaining stuff like this and allowing you the freedom to make whatever combination of skills you want.

Reading a guide is just an option for allowing you to easily create the most effective character you can create. It is not and should never be a requirement for experiencing half the features in this game.

pklemming

The reason to go for a content prov

Chuck_Finley wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Chuck_Finley wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

If you do not understand the core combat mechanics of this game, you may believe that you do not need a build or any practice. This is an ignorant mindset. There is great in game benefit to yourself and to others by increasing your understanding of the game, including how to stack skills, sets, passives, cp, food and potions to gain the maximum effect for what every avenue your pursuing. You friends will likely acknowledge your improvement should you be willing to put aside any ego that is pushing you to not learn the game.

Many good players do test builds and put these out for the public to digest. Its just a service they do and they should be applauded for doing it. No one needs to use their stuff but I dislike the arrogance of someone knocking the efforts of other players. It doesn't make anyone cool or edgy. Its unlike they know anyone who doesn't use their builds and if they did it wouldn't be worth losing any sleep over.

I disagree. Guides like Alcast / Xynode / Hack The Minotaur / Nefas etc. actively make the game worse. And it's for all the reasons why you say people are being "arrogant" about it.

People take these build guides as gospel, and then proceed to gate-keep content behind it. Content creators like this end up with a voice and influence with the ZOS devs, and the game continues to be designed around these metas. Nobody would have any arrogance against these content creators and these builds if the people running these builds weren't trying to claim exclusive domain over access to end-game content. Nobody is trying to be "edgy".

Who are these people that take a youtubers build as gospel and prevent anyone from doing content in this game? I have never seen anyone gate-keep content from a good player, ever. I'm not saying that doesn't happen but I have never encountered it in this game. Not even once. The only content I avoid is latest vet trial hard mode/achievement progression groups. And quite frankly if you are in a latest content vet hard mode trial group you aren't using these beginner youtube builds. You are using team buffing builds that synergize well with the rest of the trail group.

I've been in trials before where people got kicked because the trial leader found out someone wasn't running the sets he wanted them to, or didn't have the add-on's he wanted them to. I see and hear stories all the time of people getting kicked out of trial guilds because they didn't parse 65k minimum. Countless trial leaders will require videos of your parses so they can see your numbers. I see guild recruitment posts all the time with parse minimum requirements for entry. I personally have been told I am not truly a tank because I don't wear Yolna / Alkosh, and I have people say to me they "feel sorry for my guild" for letting me tank for them. I have even had people literally dispute me on the content clears I do have, saying it is impossible to have those clears because I don't wear the Alcast meta builds.

On a lesser scale, you see it in the dungeon queue when someone insta-drops because someone in the group isn't a desired CP level, desired class / role combination, or the vote kicks to kick someone who isn't wearing the expected gear setups.

People gate-keeping vet level content for exclusively meta and fully optimized min / maxed builds is as common in this game as breathing. It happens everywhere you turn. I honestly don't believe that you are 1. in this game and 2. part of the online community and have never seen gate-keeping in vet level content.

Lol ok I see the problem right here, you attack me for saying I've never seen the community gate content behind youtubers beginner builds. Give evidence where people aren't being kicked because of youtubers builds but because they want a CP level high enough to clear content and of DPS minimums not being met on parses. You claim I must not really play this game to have not seen it and honestly I think your attitude has a lot more to do with people not wanting to play with you than your gear. CP level being low and DPS not being met for trial content isn't the fault of a youtuber build.

In trials, tanks and healers are often asked to run certain sets in order to help the rest of the trial, whether it be to improve dps, sustain, or increase mitigation. These roles usually have the stricter set requirements.

As a DD, you usually have more flexibility in what you wear. In vet DLC content, you are expected to be able to perform your role. 65K is actually kind of a low requirement now, with it being usually 75K, 80K or higher. They are not 'gatekeeping' content, they want to succeed at the trial, being upset that you can not join at 35-40k dps is not their fault. You need a certain amount of damage to complete this content due to mechanics.

You also do not need to run meta in trials, I often don't. Siroria, and Relequin are nice on a dummy, but can not easily be used in all content. I have never had a RL tell me to leave because I was running off meta sets. As long as I do my role( which is kill things with extreme predjudice) they really don't care.

There are a couple of exceptions, where they may want a brittle warden, or a necro to fill a utility role, but it depends on the trial.

Again, they are not purposefully leaving you out of trials. Do what the rest of us do. Sit on a dummy, practice your rotations and get to the dps level required, they you won't be carried by the other 11 people. If you do not want to do this, do not complain about not getting perfected gear, or achieves. ESO is not a hard game, it does not take long to go from bad dps to good dps.

pklemming

Need more coffee. Quoted the wrong person... Apologies Chuck. I was supposed to be quoting this:

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
» show previous quotes

I've been in trials before where people got kicked because the trial leader found out someone wasn't running the sets he wanted them to, or didn't have the add-on's he wanted them to. I see and hear stories all the time of people getting kicked out of trial guilds because they didn't parse 65k minimum. Countless trial leaders will require videos of your parses so they can see your numbers. I see guild recruitment posts all the time with parse minimum requirements for entry. I personally have been told I am not truly a tank because I don't wear Yolna / Alkosh, and I have people say to me they "feel sorry for my guild" for letting me tank for them. I have even had people literally dispute me on the content clears I do have, saying it is impossible to have those clears because I don't wear the Alcast meta builds.

On a lesser scale, you see it in the dungeon queue when someone insta-drops because someone in the group isn't a desired CP level, desired class / role combination, or the vote kicks to kick someone who isn't wearing the expected gear setups.

People gate-keeping vet level content for exclusively meta and fully optimized min / maxed builds is as common in this game as breathing. It happens everywhere you turn. I honestly don't believe that you are 1. in this game and 2. part of the online community and have never seen gate-keeping in vet level content.

pklemming

Dammit, actually, I give up. Getting more coffee. I know what I mean anyway.

amm7sb14_ESO

pklemming wrote: »

Need more coffee. Quoted the wrong person... Apologies Chuck. I was supposed to be quoting this:

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
» show previous quotes

I've been in trials before where people got kicked because the trial leader found out someone wasn't running the sets he wanted them to, or didn't have the add-on's he wanted them to. I see and hear stories all the time of people getting kicked out of trial guilds because they didn't parse 65k minimum. Countless trial leaders will require videos of your parses so they can see your numbers. I see guild recruitment posts all the time with parse minimum requirements for entry. I personally have been told I am not truly a tank because I don't wear Yolna / Alkosh, and I have people say to me they "feel sorry for my guild" for letting me tank for them. I have even had people literally dispute me on the content clears I do have, saying it is impossible to have those clears because I don't wear the Alcast meta builds.

On a lesser scale, you see it in the dungeon queue when someone insta-drops because someone in the group isn't a desired CP level, desired class / role combination, or the vote kicks to kick someone who isn't wearing the expected gear setups.

People gate-keeping vet level content for exclusively meta and fully optimized min / maxed builds is as common in this game as breathing. It happens everywhere you turn. I honestly don't believe that you are 1. in this game and 2. part of the online community and have never seen gate-keeping in vet level content.

You should drink more coffee, because nothing you stated in your response to me is accurate.

75k - 80k is not required for a trial clear, vet or otherwise. The 35k - 40k that you say is "too low" is all you need to clear, and insisting otherwise is 100% gate-keeping.

alanmatillab16_ESO

AppleJuiceBox2 wrote: »

Pretty much this. Do I truly need to go to alcast or some guru and do a build? I know it’s okay your way. If I play my way and do whatever is it really hindering me from content or some groups if I want to experience the game. I’m not in to that whole min/max scene or crazy crap in WoW.

You only need to have a specific build etc for some of the late game trial content. If someone is demanding you have a certain build/gear set for normal instances tell them to shove it.

Sanguinor2

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

You should drink more coffee, because nothing you stated in your response to me is accurate.

75k - 80k is not required for a trial clear, vet or otherwise. The 35k - 40k that you say is "too low" is all you need to clear, and insisting otherwise is 100% gate-keeping.

Actually 35 to 40k isnt enough for every vet or otherwise trial clear, granted it is for about everything but not for every single one. In the end it is up to the group/groupleader what dps numbers everyone should have not people like us on the forums, if they say one should bring 80k then you bring 80k, if they say 35k is fine then 35k is fine. If one doesnt like the number asked from them they can always look elsewhere.

amm7sb14_ESO

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

You should drink more coffee, because nothing you stated in your response to me is accurate.

75k - 80k is not required for a trial clear, vet or otherwise. The 35k - 40k that you say is "too low" is all you need to clear, and insisting otherwise is 100% gate-keeping.

Actually 35 to 40k isnt enough for every vet or otherwise trial clear, granted it is for about everything but not for every single one. In the end it is up to the group/groupleader what dps numbers everyone should have not people like us on the forums, if they say one should bring 80k then you bring 80k, if they say 35k is fine then 35k is fine. If one doesnt like the number asked from them they can always look elsewhere.

Nah, nobody has the right to dictate how others play.

Keep up with the gate-keeping tho.

Sanguinor2

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Nah, nobody has the right to dictate how others play.

Keep up with the gate-keeping tho.

But you have the right to tell groups to shove it and not build their group like they want it? Entitled much?

amm7sb14_ESO

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Nah, nobody has the right to dictate how others play.

Keep up with the gate-keeping tho.

But you have the right to tell groups to shove it and not build their group like they want it? Entitled much?

Build your group how you want. I couldn't care less what you do, and if there are any ESO gods, I will never encounter you or players like you in game.

But stop imposing this "yOu nEeD 75k - 8oK tO cLeAr vEt tRiALs" narrative on the rest of the community.

Sanguinor2

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Build your group how you want. I couldn't care less what you do, and if there are any ESO gods, I will never encounter you or players like you in game.

But stop imposing this "yOu nEeD 75k - 8oK tO cLeAr vEt tRiALs" narrative on the rest of the community.

I never did but if it makes you feel better to imagine I did go ahead.....

amm7sb14_ESO

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Build your group how you want. I couldn't care less what you do, and if there are any ESO gods, I will never encounter you or players like you in game.

But stop imposing this "yOu nEeD 75k - 8oK tO cLeAr vEt tRiALs" narrative on the rest of the community.

I never did but if it makes you feel better to imagine I did go ahead.....

I didn't imagine anything. You jumped in about my comment regarding 75k - 80k DPS defending the need for that high of DPS simply to clear.

That high level of DPS is not required for a clear of literally any content in the game. Trial leaders requiring that much for entry is gate-keeping, textbook definition of it.

There is no content in this game that requires more than 40k DPS for a clear, and imposing speedrun / trifecta standards on everyone who is just trying to participate is gate-keeping.

The game does not belong solely to trifecta players.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

If playing alone, you do you. If you are playing with others, particularly if it is via groupfinder or with others you don't know, you are doing both your group members and yourself a massive disservice by not at least putting some sort of reasonable build together, to the point of being disrespectful.

Does your build need to be min/maxed to the Nth degree? Of course not. But it should at least pass the smell test for the task at hand, especially if you are playing support roles in group content.

ESO is certainly play how you want, but at some point, it comes down to common decency if you are going to subject your playstyle and builds (or lack thereof) on others. The difference between a Meta build and the second or third best options, really isnt all that much. But the difference between a middle of the road build and some haphazard mess of randomness a lot of players end up with before doing a bit of research is massive.

*Also, a lot of people and the OP are equating Alcast with Meta builds. Hate to break it to you, but Alcast hasnt posted meta builds in years. Alcast is a great resource, but he is smart enough to know that extreme min/maxers are a very niche audience, which doesnt exactly allow you to be the biggest ESO influencer out there (which he almost certainly is) if thats all you focus on. His builds are typically about 85% Meta that have been intentionally dumbed down to some degree for the masses. Don't get me wrong, that is a great place to start, but Alcast does not equal Meta.

WrathOfInnos

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Nah, nobody has the right to dictate how others play.

Keep up with the gate-keeping tho.

But you have the right to tell groups to shove it and not build their group like they want it? Entitled much?

Build your group how you want. I couldn't care less what you do, and if there are any ESO gods, I will never encounter you or players like you in game.

But stop imposing this "yOu nEeD 75k - 8oK tO cLeAr vEt tRiALs" narrative on the rest of the community.

Xalvakka HM has a DPS check that is tough for a full group of 100k+ DD’s. That is just to clear, not talking speed strats or anything extra.

FrancisCrawford

AppleJuiceBox2 wrote: »

Pretty much this. Do I truly need to go to alcast or some guru and do a build? I know it’s okay your way. If I play my way and do whatever is it really hindering me from content or some groups if I want to experience the game. I’m not in to that whole min/max scene or crazy crap in WoW.

You certainly don't need any particular build.

For overland content done solo, you need a build that satisfies you. Period.

For dungeon damage dealing, you need a build that lets you do sufficient damage while also fulfilling other requirements and also staying alive. Period. Also, please avoid a couple of choices that interfere with other players, such as the Maw of the Infernal monster set.

For dungeon healing, there are certain expectations, and commonly just a few skills and/or sets each that can fulfill each of the expectations. Otherwise, you have a lot of latitude.

Tanking is a similar story.

Chuck_Finley

pklemming wrote: »

Need more coffee. Quoted the wrong person... Apologies Chuck. I was supposed to be quoting this:
[snip]

That's ok it was a long reply chain and I just assumed you were responding to the group and not me specifically since your reply didn't really talk about any point I made. haha

Hoolielulu

For me Alcast was a great place to start. Then along the way I decided I didn't like my monster set so I chose something else, and I didn't like some of the abilities he suggested I slot so I swapped those out, and now I'm playing with my CP. I like my build. I know how to use her. I won't be doing serious content with serious players but that's not what I'm looking for. Play around and find what's comfortable.

Nagastani

No, you don't need a build and if you're having fun with the game as is, it might be better to continue doing so. One of these days you will run into a problem that in order to solve, requires you to get organized and setup a build. In the meantime, have fun with the game and enjoy the different and unique things this game has to offer.

Don't be stupid and run straight into PvP like some of us chose to do. ;D (And also, it might help to stay out of zone chat too)