Do I need a build?

AppleJuiceBox2

Pretty much this. Do I truly need to go to alcast or some guru and do a build? I know it’s okay your way. If I play my way and do whatever is it really hindering me from content or some groups if I want to experience the game. I’m not in to that whole min/max scene or crazy crap in WoW.

WrathOfInnos

Yes you need a build. It can be your build, with personal preferences. You don’t need to run a specific build, but most of the ones available are a good starting point. Looking at the successful builds of others’ can save many hours of testing.

MirandaSharp

No, you don't need any of that. Just do what works for you. Most important is to enjoy the game and have fun!

Sylvermynx

I did when I first started as this particular MMO is very different from WoW and RIFT (the ones I'd played before). But after maybe the first year, I just pretty much do my own thing. Especially for my multitude of alts: they wear whatever they find in overland - sometimes I get lucky and get a couple of 5 piece overland sets for someone, and sometimes they wind up in a mish-mash for a while.

Also, there's some pretty decent craftable sets in this game....

Danikat

You have a build. The only way to not have one is to use no skills and possibly no gear (or at least no set gear.)

What you don't have is a build copied from someone else, and in most cases you don't need that. If you want to do difficult group content like achievements in vet DLC dungeons or trials you need a good build, and one which works well with the rest of your team and if you're not confident theory crafting yourself copying a build from a website is an easy way to get one. But even at that level you can create your own build if you want to and if your group isn't opposed to the idea.

In other areas the game isn't as demanding so there's a lot more flexibility in what will work, meaning you can design your own build and it doesn't matter if it's not perfect, if it's good enough to get you through the content and you like using it that's enough.

Herr_Flocke

AppleJuiceBox2 wrote: »

Pretty much this. Do I truly need to go to alcast or some guru and do a build?

of course not. ESO has a lot of content, you can do with a variety of builds. But... the closer you get to real endgame (group) content, the narrower the window of variety gets.

And that's where Alcast (or any other guru) come into place. Do you (eg. as dd) build for crit, for pen, for wd or for reg... they usually get a good grasp of the general direction of an effective build. How you handle the details is up to you and the setup of your group. Not so very different from other games really.

belial5221_ESO

I tried builds from sites as a base,didn't like em,so swapped gear and ested myself.I jsut got what I tohught was best,and it works better for my playstyle. For high end stuff like vet trials,etc you probably want certain builds if you want it to be a little easier, take less time,and/or keep groups who wanna run with you.

amm7sb14_ESO

AppleJuiceBox2 wrote: »

Pretty much this. Do I truly need to go to alcast or some guru and do a build? I know it’s okay your way. If I play my way and do whatever is it really hindering me from content or some groups if I want to experience the game. I’m not in to that whole min/max scene or crazy crap in WoW.

No, you do not need to go to Alcast or any other build guides.

You can complete literally any content in this game without min / maxed meta builds.

Meta builds might be more necessary if you want to do leaderboard / trifecta trial runs. But if you just want clears, you can complete even vet trials without a min / maxed meta build from Alcast.

Sheezabeast

You don't need a build per say, but keep these things in mind.

1) Your damage scales off your highest stat. You want to have high stamina or high Magicka.

2) Your racial passives do effect your performance to a degree, but it is not the end all. You can be a Khajiit Mag Sorc if you put your armor together right, for example.

3) Your armor passives are important, and wearing 5 of the same weight is important for the 5 piece bonus. Stam wears medium, light for Magicka.

4) ZOS makes changes to sets in the game and class abilities very often. You have to be flexible. Going full ham on a flavor of the month Alcast build and golding it out will do you NO favors. You will waste mats, and it will likely get nerfed if enough of his following suddenly start using it and it's the new 'meta' for two minutes.

5) Try using guild finder to find a guild to join so you can have dungeon run buddies, people to port to, and hopefully crafters that can help you out if you have needs.

I hope this helps you ☺️

Bradyfjord

Once you get an understanding of the tradeoffs regarding dps vs burst vs survival vs mobility vs sustainability, you should be successful whatever you do.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

If you do not understand the core combat mechanics of this game, you may believe that you do not need a build or any practice. This is an ignorant mindset. There is great in game benefit to yourself and to others by increasing your understanding of the game, including how to stack skills, sets, passives, cp, food and potions to gain the maximum effect for what every avenue your pursuing. You friends will likely acknowledge your improvement should you be willing to put aside any ego that is pushing you to not learn the game.

Many good players do test builds and put these out for the public to digest. Its just a service they do and they should be applauded for doing it. No one needs to use their stuff but I dislike the arrogance of someone knocking the efforts of other players. It doesn't make anyone cool or edgy. Its unlike they know anyone who doesn't use their builds and if they did it wouldn't be worth losing any sleep over.

JoDiMageio

AppleJuiceBox2 wrote: »

If I play my way and do whatever is it really hindering me from content or some groups if I want to experience the game.

Define "experience the game" (for you).

It might hold you back from some end game content (trifecta trial achievements for example) since a lot of guilds who do progression runs have requirements about DPS (if you're a DD) or require certain gear and set-ups (even when you can hold your own and demonstrate that your build is just as viable as what they are asking for).

Other than that, I have found that it is much more enjoyable to do you own thing and discover what works for your playstyle and what you want to accomplish.

fred4

AppleJuiceBox2 wrote: »

Pretty much this. Do I truly need to go to alcast or some guru and do a build? I know it’s okay your way. If I play my way and do whatever is it really hindering me from content or some groups if I want to experience the game. I’m not in to that whole min/max scene or crazy crap in WoW.

If you do overland questing, you don't need a build. Just wear anything and use any skills.

If you want to do vet Vateshran or vet Maelstrom arena, or any "high-end" group content for that matter, you absolutely need a build.

If you want to do something inbetween those difficulties (public dungeons, solo world bosses), you may need a build.

You don't need a build from Alcast or anyone else. All builds imply a playstyle and playstyles can be quite varied. My impression of Alcast's playstyle is: "I know all the mechanics and I play the squishiest build I can get away with, because I'm addicted to power (magblade ) and, well, that works. I just mow down everything, bypassing or minimising my exposure to mechanics where I can."

I could be wrong. I don't follow Alcast regularly, but have tried one of his builds in the past. It was a DD build. He parsed 35K to 40K (a long ago patch) with a static rotation and thought that was easy. I got 25K. I could not do any more with the same build. I don't think people like Alcast quite understand how others struggle and that, if your aspiration is only to absolve content without ever wanting to post competitive times and scores in the future, you don't need to play nor build like him at all. In that case I think there are other content creators that may serve you better. Hack the Minotaur comes to mind. Perhaps Deltia. Best thing, though, is to understand buildcraft well enough that you make your own builds. You want to do the harder content, you do have to learn about builds and mechanics. It can make the difference between finding some content really hard and getting stuck on it versus just sailing through.

My personal favorite PvE build at the moment is my stam DK, a fairly tanky "Brawler" build that does vet Vateshran / Maelstrom trifecta runs very comfortably. Master's 2H / Brawler / Pale Order is easy mode. It's the kind of build that, once you try it, can make you feel pretty stupid for not having done it sooner. For example I was completely stuck on the final vet Vateshran round when the shades were closing in on me. You can take the Alcast aproach and essentially practice your rotation until you do so much damage it's not an issue anymore. Or you can take my approach and realise there are non-meta things in the game that will do the same with less effort. Once you look at what the Brawler skill does and what the Master's 2H weapon does, you'll understand. Defense and damage both scale with the number of mobs and that makes it very hard for you to get overwhelmed, even when your rotation or understanding of mechanics aren't perfect. This will also dispatch most single bosses in relative comfort, except it's not meta, because it doesn't set DPS / speed records. I also take this build into normal trials from time to time and no one has yet complained. Also good for the vet group arenas and dungeons. I have full runs of the solo arenas and a vet hard-mode solo dungeon on my YouTube channel, in case you're interested:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3jZELdKsjDJlEZwlgIAqFw/videos

amm7sb14_ESO

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

If you do not understand the core combat mechanics of this game, you may believe that you do not need a build or any practice. This is an ignorant mindset. There is great in game benefit to yourself and to others by increasing your understanding of the game, including how to stack skills, sets, passives, cp, food and potions to gain the maximum effect for what every avenue your pursuing. You friends will likely acknowledge your improvement should you be willing to put aside any ego that is pushing you to not learn the game.

Many good players do test builds and put these out for the public to digest. Its just a service they do and they should be applauded for doing it. No one needs to use their stuff but I dislike the arrogance of someone knocking the efforts of other players. It doesn't make anyone cool or edgy. Its unlike they know anyone who doesn't use their builds and if they did it wouldn't be worth losing any sleep over.

I disagree. Guides like Alcast / Xynode / Hack The Minotaur / Nefas etc. actively make the game worse. And it's for all the reasons why you say people are being "arrogant" about it.

People take these build guides as gospel, and then proceed to gate-keep content behind it. Content creators like this end up with a voice and influence with the ZOS devs, and the game continues to be designed around these metas. Nobody would have any arrogance against these content creators and these builds if the people running these builds weren't trying to claim exclusive domain over access to end-game content. Nobody is trying to be "edgy".

In actuality, these online meta builds are *not* necessary for content completion. You *do* need to have an intentional build - meaning if you are a tank, you need to be built to tank, if you are DPS, you need to be equipped to deal damage, and if you're a healer, you need to be equipped to buff and heal.

Nobody *needs* 60k / 70k / 80k+ DPS to clear content. If you have a group full of 30k - 40k, you can clear every piece of content in the game.

Your tank doesn't need to wear Alkosh / Yolna. If your tank is survivable, knows mechanics, and understands how to set up the fight and your tanks and healers know how to buff and debuff, you can clear every piece of content in the game.

Every single character I have is off-meta. I don't have a single meta build, and rarely even use a single meta set. My tanks are Bretons and Wood Elves equipped with Grave Guardian, Crimson Twilight, Brands Of Imperium, and Foolkiller. My DPS are equipped with Aegis Caller, Defiler, Unleashed, Phoenix, and True-Sworn Fury. My healers are Dark Elves and High Elves who are a bit closer to meta, equipped with Twilight Remedy, Jorvuld's Guidance, Spell Power Cure, and Hollowfang, but I don't have a single character with Olorime.

I have cleared every single vet dungeon this game has to offer, and cleared numerous vet trials. The guild that I run with is a more casual guild of players who are still learning mechanics and their own characters, so we haven't cleared everything yet. But we at least have a fighting chance at any trial we've attempted.

If you want maximum optimization and efficiency for a leaderboard run or a trifecta achievement, then yes, you will need the meta builds, and micromanage sets, races, classes, and all that other stuff.

If you just want to play through the content, normal or vet, and have an opportunity to clear the content, then no, you don't need meta builds nor a micromanaged group composition.

Chuck_Finley

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

If you do not understand the core combat mechanics of this game, you may believe that you do not need a build or any practice. This is an ignorant mindset. There is great in game benefit to yourself and to others by increasing your understanding of the game, including how to stack skills, sets, passives, cp, food and potions to gain the maximum effect for what every avenue your pursuing. You friends will likely acknowledge your improvement should you be willing to put aside any ego that is pushing you to not learn the game.

Many good players do test builds and put these out for the public to digest. Its just a service they do and they should be applauded for doing it. No one needs to use their stuff but I dislike the arrogance of someone knocking the efforts of other players. It doesn't make anyone cool or edgy. Its unlike they know anyone who doesn't use their builds and if they did it wouldn't be worth losing any sleep over.

I disagree. Guides like Alcast / Xynode / Hack The Minotaur / Nefas etc. actively make the game worse. And it's for all the reasons why you say people are being "arrogant" about it.

People take these build guides as gospel, and then proceed to gate-keep content behind it. Content creators like this end up with a voice and influence with the ZOS devs, and the game continues to be designed around these metas. Nobody would have any arrogance against these content creators and these builds if the people running these builds weren't trying to claim exclusive domain over access to end-game content. Nobody is trying to be "edgy".

Who are these people that take a youtubers build as gospel and prevent anyone from doing content in this game? I have never seen anyone gate-keep content from a good player, ever. I'm not saying that doesn't happen but I have never encountered it in this game. Not even once. The only content I avoid is latest vet trial hard mode/achievement progression groups. And quite frankly if you are in a latest content vet hard mode trial group you aren't using these beginner youtube builds. You are using team buffing builds that synergize well with the rest of the trail group.

amm7sb14_ESO

Chuck_Finley wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

If you do not understand the core combat mechanics of this game, you may believe that you do not need a build or any practice. This is an ignorant mindset. There is great in game benefit to yourself and to others by increasing your understanding of the game, including how to stack skills, sets, passives, cp, food and potions to gain the maximum effect for what every avenue your pursuing. You friends will likely acknowledge your improvement should you be willing to put aside any ego that is pushing you to not learn the game.

Many good players do test builds and put these out for the public to digest. Its just a service they do and they should be applauded for doing it. No one needs to use their stuff but I dislike the arrogance of someone knocking the efforts of other players. It doesn't make anyone cool or edgy. Its unlike they know anyone who doesn't use their builds and if they did it wouldn't be worth losing any sleep over.

I disagree. Guides like Alcast / Xynode / Hack The Minotaur / Nefas etc. actively make the game worse. And it's for all the reasons why you say people are being "arrogant" about it.

People take these build guides as gospel, and then proceed to gate-keep content behind it. Content creators like this end up with a voice and influence with the ZOS devs, and the game continues to be designed around these metas. Nobody would have any arrogance against these content creators and these builds if the people running these builds weren't trying to claim exclusive domain over access to end-game content. Nobody is trying to be "edgy".

Who are these people that take a youtubers build as gospel and prevent anyone from doing content in this game? I have never seen anyone gate-keep content from a good player, ever. I'm not saying that doesn't happen but I have never encountered it in this game. Not even once. The only content I avoid is latest vet trial hard mode/achievement progression groups. And quite frankly if you are in a latest content vet hard mode trial group you aren't using these beginner youtube builds. You are using team buffing builds that synergize well with the rest of the trail group.

I've been in trials before where people got kicked because the trial leader found out someone wasn't running the sets he wanted them to, or didn't have the add-on's he wanted them to. I see and hear stories all the time of people getting kicked out of trial guilds because they didn't parse 65k minimum. Countless trial leaders will require videos of your parses so they can see your numbers. I see guild recruitment posts all the time with parse minimum requirements for entry. I personally have been told I am not truly a tank because I don't wear Yolna / Alkosh, and I have people say to me they "feel sorry for my guild" for letting me tank for them. I have even had people literally dispute me on the content clears I do have, saying it is impossible to have those clears because I don't wear the Alcast meta builds.

On a lesser scale, you see it in the dungeon queue when someone insta-drops because someone in the group isn't a desired CP level, desired class / role combination, or the vote kicks to kick someone who isn't wearing the expected gear setups.

People gate-keeping vet level content for exclusively meta and fully optimized min / maxed builds is as common in this game as breathing. It happens everywhere you turn. I honestly don't believe that you are 1. in this game and 2. part of the online community and have never seen gate-keeping in vet level content.

Gaebriel0410

I think meta is highly overrated and especially in ESO, often waved around like the holy gospel in some bizarre form of gatekeeping. There's nothing wrong with build sites of course, I think it's a healthy thing for any game when players share their character setups. It's just the 'everything that's not optimal is useless' attitude that's kinda counterproductive imo.

The attitude is sadly so prevalent and visible, that for years, it kept me from actually trying to run veteran dungeons at all, as I assumed you had to be some minmaxing gaming god with perfect gear and flawless skill, to not be chewed out and spat out by the average dungeon groups. Since well, I like to make my own thematic builds instead of copying what someone else does for max efficiency/speed, since ESO's character setup flexibility is one of its greatest strengths imo.

I'm not a bad player at all, but I wouldn't say I'm some gaming god. So I simply assumed that my skill was far from enough to try them with any chance of success, so not really worth the time. Great was my surprise when I finally tried those vet dungeons and found I could actually hold my own very well (no I wasn't carried), and since I never saw them before, adapting to mechanics on the spot. So, then I found a regular group!

So to all players who are still insecure about stepping foot into veteran dungeons, try them! I did them (yes DLC ones) with my homemade mediocre dps offspec build and all crafted gear. It's far from 'optimal/meta/omgefficient' but I made it, I know how it works, how to play it, and find it fun to play. Since well, that's why I made it like that. I think that ultimately it's all about having a positive attitude and enouraging others to try stuff out, instead of shouting down those who don't follow build X. Of course not everything works for everything, and a light armour tank with a bow might not be too wise. But like I mentioned before, I think build variety is one of ESO's greatest strength. That's something that should be cherished imo, and not discouraged.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

One thing to keep in mind is many of the builds you see from folks like alcast are pretty specific to a certain style of play. Many times they are based on players in formal groups that do trials or vet dungeons where the other player skills and traits complement the build. These same builds are not necessarily good for open world and soloing or doing small group dungeons as frequently you will find the DPS builds are glass cannons who rely upon healers and buffs to be able to survive group content. I think the real answer to whether you need a build or not is what type of content do you intend to play and work from there. It is entirely possible you will need multiple builds to fit the different environments.

Ippokrates

IMHO builds are quite useful to see what sets and skills could be worth trying (especially with those contant changes from patch to patch) BUT you can properly assess them only once you master the game itself.

Treating builds as a gospel will quickly burn you out - cause first you will be focusing on set grinding (yeah, and most of those builds use the same few sets - Siroria, Relequen, Mother's Sorrow) and once you get them... You would get frustrated cause it is unlikely you will reach this 80k+ dps - that require a lot of practice and practice... and most youtubers do not show step by step how they reaching such values (i think only theAsianGod doing things like this).

So make few alts, check their skills, do stamina & magicka, collect some overland & dungeon sets just to wear them once and see how they proc and you will know what type of combat is most suited for you (melee, ranged, stam, mag, static or dynamic, solo or team, pve or pvp, la or ha or maybe ult), invest your time & mats into some "reasonable" build, and by reasonable i mean build that is based on some really good synergies NOT just a Xmas tree of best of the best skills & sets.

fred4

Here's the off the top of my head guide for making a PvE solo DD. The nice thing about such builds is that they also do well in 4-man pickup groups, regardless of group composition or experience level:

• Build for crit and sustain first and foremost, weapon or spell damage second. Forget proc sets. Unless you're playing a heavy attack build, you need roughly 2K magicka or stamina sustain. In a group you will oversustain. You can adjust this as you get experience with the build via mundus, food and jewelry enchants. The ideal set that fulfils all of these criteria in one set is Vicious Ophidian for stamina characters or False God's Devotion for magicka characters. If you don't have those, it's probably best to get sustain from your mundus, food and possibly enchants and wear crit sets, such as Mother's Sorrow and Julianos.
• You want to heal from doing damage. You don't want to stop and cast a healing skill, although having one burst heal or shield (Hardened Ward or Dampen Magic) is useful for emergencies - and emergencies only. This means Pale Order plus skills like Puncturing Sweeps, Crit Surge, Swallow Soul, Leeching Strikes / Siphoning Attacks, Sap Essence, Brawler, Bloodthirst, Blood Craze, Burning Embers and so on.
• You need one and one spammable only. These are skills like Force Pulse, Swallow Soul, Bloodthirst, Brawler, Dizzying Swing, Puncturing Sweeps, and so on. The bread and butter skills you can just spam when you have nothing else to do. That said, you may go for a single target and an AOE spammable, especially if they both heal you like Swallow Soul + Sap Essence on magblade. Magplar has it all in one, in Sweeps. Brawler with Master's 2H is even better.
• You want one and one execute skill only. Reverse Slice, Impale, Radiant Glory, and so on.
• You want loads of skills (if you can fit them) that do damage over time, be they directly applied, ground-based or AOE. The advantage of ground-based skills is that you can lay them down at spots you know a monster will appear, particularly in the arenas. When you see people burning bosses, that's because they pile these effects on before the boss spawns. They include Twisting Path, Barbed Trap, Razor Caltrops, Lightning Splash, Spear Shards, Winter's Revenge, and so on. Many of these skills have additional effects. Trap gives you more crit damage, Caltrops penetration, Shards a sustain synergy for group members and so on. Other damage over times skills are too many to list. The more experienced and / or group-focused you are - when you are someone like Alcast - the more of these types of skills you will slot, while going for a bare minimum of sustain and defense.
• You want to back bar a ground effect skill from a weapon (not class) skill line and have an Infused back bar weapon with a weapon / spell damage enchant. The ground effect will keep that enchant procced continuously, even when you bar swap. Skills include Arrow Barrage / Endless Hail, Elemental Blockade, Stampede, but also Blade Cloak (not a ground effect).
• If you are not grouped, you want a skill that gives you Major Brutality or Major Sorcery. You could get that from a potion too. It's up to you. You need to make sure to get Major Prophecy or Savagery as well from somewhere.
• You want to make sure that skills do not overlap. For example on my stam DK, I see Igneous Weapons and Rally as mutually exclusive. The main purpose of those skills is getting the Major Brutality. You only need one of those skills for that. By the same token I would run either Noxious Breath or Razor Caltrops on the stam DK, but not both, and so on.
• You want to wear at least 5x medium or 5x light armor. Heavy armor is out.
• If you look at my DK, you'll see a fair bit of pure defense in that build as well: Hardened Armor, Shuffle, Bloodspawn. These are a hangover of mine from PvP to be honest. The build could be specced more aggressively, however I instinctively reach for a snare removal skill when slowed and Bloodspawn is a sustain set on a DK. There's a comfort factor to Hardened Armor. It's a tanky-ish build. For soloing something like that vet HM Blessed Crucible boss, that's not a bad idea. You have to be on the ball blocking all her heavy attacks, but fully buffed and at full health I could afford the odd mistake.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

@amm7sb14_ESO WHAT???!!! How others use or abuse content creators builds is not responsibility of the build creator. I seriously can't believe you have the nerve to say that someone producing fan content for this game makes it worse. Are you upset, you have no reach or pull? Start your own content creation and join the club, if you dare because it's a lot of work for such little gratitude, if your any measure of such things.

Your attitude towards others likely makes it far worse than them. It's like a reverse elitism, I can never understand it because your not alone, there is a vocal segment of embittered players unhappy with the mechanics of the game that force them to appreciate others and learn the deeper understanding of character design.

Look, no one has to use anyone's build. And if you don't like some who ask others to do x... you dont have to play with them. But if they own the ball, it's their ball. A trial leader has every right to coordinate their trial as they see fit. Who are you to deny them that, or disparage them? Run your own trials.

I have never seen these actions that you accused people of doing being prolific, and I've been playing for 7 years. Folks run around screaming elitism at good folks and then wonder why no one wants them around.

fred4

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

@amm7sb14_ESO WHAT???!!! How others use or abuse content creators builds is not responsibility of the build creator. I seriously can't believe you have the nerve to say that someone producing fan content for this game makes it worse. Are you upset, you have no reach or pull? Start your own content creation and join the club, if you dare because it's a lot of work for such little gratitude, if your any measure of such things.

Your attitude towards others likely makes it far worse than them. It's like a reverse elitism, I can never understand it because your not alone, there is a vocal segment of embittered players unhappy with the mechanics of the game that force them to appreciate others and learn the deeper understanding of character design.

Look, no one has to use anyone's build. And if you don't like some who ask others to do x... you dont have to play with them. But if they own the ball, it's their ball. A trial leader has every right to coordinate their trial as they see fit. Who are you to deny them that, or disparage them? Run your own trials.

I have never seen these actions that you accused people of doing being prolific, and I've been playing for 7 years. Folks run around screaming elitism at good folks and then wonder why no one wants them around.

I'm not deeply involved with group play, but certainly when you PUG, it's a mixed bag. Many people are nice, but strange and nasty is also pretty common.

There was the guy who repeatedly wanted to kick a low level player from the group at the last boss, when we had been breezing through regardless of that players lack of experience.

There was the vDSA lfm guy, who completely tore my head off for daring to talk to him, because he thought my quoted DPS was too low for vDSA, even though I had successfully completed it before.

There was another guy, a healer, who threw a tantrum when he saw me use Vigor in a 4-man dungeon.

I agree it's not the YouTubers fault. YouTubers are typically people who know a lot about the game and who experiment with builds. It's the followers. Build videos are popular. Some like to study build details, like me. Others, perhaps, lack time for buildcraft and just want something ready-made. Still others are zealots. I think what @amm7sb14_ESO is having an issue with is perhaps not the YouTuibers themselves, but the phenomenon whereby the rabid part of their fanbase turns a YouTubers work into doctrine.

oddbasket

Yes, there is always a build, and that build can be your own. There isn't one build for everything, so there's nothing wrong with taking pointers from build guides to learn the meta, or what's good for different content or solo. The builds you use personally can be dynamic, to suit your own playstyle, because a meta trial build isn't that efficient in overland compared to a solo build with more focus on direct attacks because things die faster with burst damage before you can build your stacks or buffs. And if you're on PC, the dressing room addon will do wonders for you to allow you switch builds on-the-fly.

Zodiarkslayer

fred4 wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

@amm7sb14_ESO WHAT???!!! How others use or abuse content creators builds is not responsibility of the build creator. I seriously can't believe you have the nerve to say that someone producing fan content for this game makes it worse. Are you upset, you have no reach or pull? Start your own content creation and join the club, if you dare because it's a lot of work for such little gratitude, if your any measure of such things.

Your attitude towards others likely makes it far worse than them. It's like a reverse elitism, I can never understand it because your not alone, there is a vocal segment of embittered players unhappy with the mechanics of the game that force them to appreciate others and learn the deeper understanding of character design.

Look, no one has to use anyone's build. And if you don't like some who ask others to do x... you dont have to play with them. But if they own the ball, it's their ball. A trial leader has every right to coordinate their trial as they see fit. Who are you to deny them that, or disparage them? Run your own trials.

I have never seen these actions that you accused people of doing being prolific, and I've been playing for 7 years. Folks run around screaming elitism at good folks and then wonder why no one wants them around.

I'm not deeply involved with group play, but certainly when you PUG, it's a mixed bag. Many people are nice, but strange and nasty is also pretty common.

There was the guy who repeatedly wanted to kick a low level player from the group at the last boss, when we had been breezing through regardless of that players lack of experience.

There was the vDSA lfm guy, who completely tore my head off for daring to talk to him, because he thought my quoted DPS was too low for vDSA, even though I had successfully completed it before.

There was another guy, a healer, who threw a tantrum when he saw me use Vigor in a 4-man dungeon.

I agree it's not the YouTubers fault. YouTubers are typically people who know a lot about the game and who experiment with builds. It's the followers. Build videos are popular. Some like to study build details, like me. Others, perhaps, lack time for buildcraft and just want something ready-made. Still others are zealots. I think what @amm7sb14_ESO is having an issue with is perhaps not the YouTuibers themselves, but the phenomenon whereby the rabid part of their fanbase turns a YouTubers work into doctrine.

Gurus and their fanatic followers: Just like in real life...

@AppleJuiceBox2 Builds are using/utilising synergies between abilities, gear sets and passives. These synergies can push a players game experience quite a lot.
Of course one can always play with less coherence and synergy. But the increased difficulty is usually just one being weaker, rather than enemies being stronger.
So the real question(s) is(are): Why do you want to be weaker? Why do you want to take longer to do the same content?

orion_1981usub17_ESO

@fred4 Except he didn't say youtuber followers. He said content creators make the game worse. And thats just as obtuse as all the examples you use for your own anecdotal evidence. And thats the crux of my argument. There are many rude and obtuse players in the game, but take care that your also not one of them. So many folks have no self awareness about their own quality of tolerance for others. Folks demand acceptance then do not offer it to others.

The desire to play nonmeta builds in the "competitive" difficulty levels speaks volumes about who a person is as a person.... obtuse. But even worse are the many folks that aren't anywhere near that level of difficulty and mock those players that are for their dedication to the game. It's the fox and the grapes and they call content creator sour because they will never enjoy the fruits of their labors.

Togal

You do you fam, whatever makes you happy roll with it.

Sanguinor2

Depends on what you want to do.
Overland and questing dont need any build at all.
For normal dungeons you dont necessarily need a build either but it would help your group if you had atleast some semblance of a build. If you know how to dps you can get enough damage for normal dungeons with nothing but a green weapon equipped, wouldnt recommend having 10 empty slots tho.
For vet dungeons you should have some sort of build, doesnt have to be a trial ready build or anything running one crafted and one overland set that fit to your damage type (if you are a dd) is enough if you know how to play it. But having no build in vet dungeons is just letting your group down and them having to do your job as well as theirs.
For trials it depends on what your trial leader wants. You dont necessarily need a best in slot build to clear vet trials but if your trial leader wants you to bring one then you should. Theoretically you can clear all the older vet trials with 30k dps it just requires everyone to not make mistakes and play much better than they would have to if they optimized.

fred4

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

The desire to play nonmeta builds in the "competitive" difficulty levels speaks volumes about who a person is as a person.... obtuse. But even worse are the many folks that aren't anywhere near that level of difficulty and mock those players that are for their dedication to the game. It's the fox and the grapes and they call content creator sour because they will never enjoy the fruits of their labors.

Except the "competitive" levels of the game aren't nearly as competitive anymore as they, perhaps, once were. Thanks for clarifying that you need or should use a meta build for those. That's just patently untrue when you only seek to get through the content without setting high scores. Please don't equate playing non-meta builds with laziness, incompetence or lack of studying and learning from the meta.

I have no problem with people who state their goals. If those include collecting achievements or setting scores, no problem. I won't join the group. If you only want to play in groups that work towards those goals long-term, fair enough as well. It's when you make out that the playstyle you're using, which is likely the meta, is the only way to get through the content, that's when I have a problem.

tenryuta

"you cant handle the build!!!!!"

in all seriousness, do what you want and make your character the best you can make them, there are many sets to help make your character the way you want using the skills you want to use the most.

im a spellsword on every character, and there many ways to balance that style.

Chuck_Finley

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Chuck_Finley wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

If you do not understand the core combat mechanics of this game, you may believe that you do not need a build or any practice. This is an ignorant mindset. There is great in game benefit to yourself and to others by increasing your understanding of the game, including how to stack skills, sets, passives, cp, food and potions to gain the maximum effect for what every avenue your pursuing. You friends will likely acknowledge your improvement should you be willing to put aside any ego that is pushing you to not learn the game.

Many good players do test builds and put these out for the public to digest. Its just a service they do and they should be applauded for doing it. No one needs to use their stuff but I dislike the arrogance of someone knocking the efforts of other players. It doesn't make anyone cool or edgy. Its unlike they know anyone who doesn't use their builds and if they did it wouldn't be worth losing any sleep over.

I disagree. Guides like Alcast / Xynode / Hack The Minotaur / Nefas etc. actively make the game worse. And it's for all the reasons why you say people are being "arrogant" about it.

People take these build guides as gospel, and then proceed to gate-keep content behind it. Content creators like this end up with a voice and influence with the ZOS devs, and the game continues to be designed around these metas. Nobody would have any arrogance against these content creators and these builds if the people running these builds weren't trying to claim exclusive domain over access to end-game content. Nobody is trying to be "edgy".

Who are these people that take a youtubers build as gospel and prevent anyone from doing content in this game? I have never seen anyone gate-keep content from a good player, ever. I'm not saying that doesn't happen but I have never encountered it in this game. Not even once. The only content I avoid is latest vet trial hard mode/achievement progression groups. And quite frankly if you are in a latest content vet hard mode trial group you aren't using these beginner youtube builds. You are using team buffing builds that synergize well with the rest of the trail group.

I've been in trials before where people got kicked because the trial leader found out someone wasn't running the sets he wanted them to, or didn't have the add-on's he wanted them to. I see and hear stories all the time of people getting kicked out of trial guilds because they didn't parse 65k minimum. Countless trial leaders will require videos of your parses so they can see your numbers. I see guild recruitment posts all the time with parse minimum requirements for entry. I personally have been told I am not truly a tank because I don't wear Yolna / Alkosh, and I have people say to me they "feel sorry for my guild" for letting me tank for them. I have even had people literally dispute me on the content clears I do have, saying it is impossible to have those clears because I don't wear the Alcast meta builds.

On a lesser scale, you see it in the dungeon queue when someone insta-drops because someone in the group isn't a desired CP level, desired class / role combination, or the vote kicks to kick someone who isn't wearing the expected gear setups.

People gate-keeping vet level content for exclusively meta and fully optimized min / maxed builds is as common in this game as breathing. It happens everywhere you turn. I honestly don't believe that you are 1. in this game and 2. part of the online community and have never seen gate-keeping in vet level content.

Lol ok I see the problem right here, you attack me for saying I've never seen the community gate content behind youtubers beginner builds. Give evidence where people aren't being kicked because of youtubers builds but because they want a CP level high enough to clear content and of DPS minimums not being met on parses. You claim I must not really play this game to have not seen it and honestly I think your attitude has a lot more to do with people not wanting to play with you than your gear. CP level being low and DPS not being met for trial content isn't the fault of a youtuber build.

tc91101

There really isn't a "set build" for any toon. You may wan't to change your gear and skills depending on what you are doing. For example, if you are sneaking through a town and stealing/pickpocketing then you may want gear and skills that make it easier vs. wearing PvP gear or Trial gear.