Gaining Rapport with Mirri by Killing Goblins

Nebs

Goblins in ESO have historically been treated poorly, the Frostvault Dungeon is a ghastly example of Goblins' culture and sapience on full display, but them all being wiped out for the crime of being in the way of treasure. Goblins, virtually anywhere in Tamriel are reviled and hated. I never liked it, but I accepted it because that's the land of Tamriel.

What makes Mirri's desire to see Goblins killed so unpalatable is that in her introductory quest she's pointed out numerous times, and by an old scarred Argonian no less, that she's not a racist. In addition to this scene involving the Argonian woman, Mirri doesn't like seeing innocents killed.

Mirri being celebrated for not being a racist by specifically someone who was subjugated by her people, and her not liking the death of innocents make the mechanic of Mirri's perception of you improving based solely on killing someone of a specific race and not on anything that they've done so uncomfortable. Her being lauded by the Argonian is one of the most frustrating parts of all this, suggesting she's better than many others, but Mirri falls right in line with the rest of Tamriel's perceptions when it comes to Goblins.

Mirri's vocal commentary on how gross Goblins are and that they make her wretch is disappointing on it's own, but the rapport gains from killing them is foul.

phaneub17_ESO

I have no problem going all Goblin Slayer for her happiness.

Crazyprophet

Kill goblins kill goblins

bmnoble

I always try peaceful dialogue with the goblins as I approach them but they attacked me every time, nobody attacks me, fails miserably and gets away with it.

Nebs

bmnoble wrote: »

I always try peaceful dialogue with the goblins as I approach them but they attacked me every time, nobody attacks me, fails miserably and gets away with it.

I get that in the world of Tamriel, there are virtually no opportunities to be friendly with Goblins, that's why I'm not discussing the way Goblins are treated as a whole. It's specifically the way Mirri is presented as better-than-most.

It's not even that she just doesn't have any qualms about killing Goblins, it's that she likes you more if you do.

ThoughtRaven

This is an example of the "Fair for Its Day" trope.

Mirri is considered non racist against people by someone who considers both themself and Mirri to be people.

Since most of Tamriel's denizens, right or wrong, consider goblins to be little more than vermin, and thus expressly not people , there is no contradiction.

It's like a gentleman from the Antebellum South being a staunch abolitionist, but really really hating rats or something and being needlessly cruel to them. Nowadays, attitudes towards animals being what they are, we'd probably call him a jerk for being mean to rats, back then probably not so much.

spartaxoxo

Goblins aren't people in the Elder Scrolls series, so Mirri is progressive for her time period but still a racist by modern standards. Like a lot of abolitionists irl thought black people were inferior and thus should be segregated and not have the same rights as white men, but still found slavery disgusting because they recognized black people were people and not cattle/property.

Those people were very racist. But, they were also seen more favorably by the enslaved and former slaves than slave masters for very obvious reasons. They still thought they were racist but significantly less so than slave holders.

Mirri doesn't just view them as someone to be freed because she recognize sentience but actually considers them her equal. That's gonna be looked on very favorably by people formely enslaved by dark elves and give them hope for the future.

It doesn't mean she's not actually still racist.

GreenHere

Goblins eat human babies. True fact!

Aristocles22

Goblins in TES have white souls. Sapient beings have black souls. Highly controversial implications about soul colors notwithstanding, the difference means they are classed the same as wolves or bears or something like that.

wolfie1.0.

Her Rapport system bugs everyone.

DaiKahn

Nebs wrote: »

Mirri being celebrated for not being a racist by specifically someone who was subjugated by her people, and her not liking the death of innocents make the mechanic of Mirri's perception of you improving based solely on killing someone of a specific race and not on anything that they've done so uncomfortable. Her being lauded by the Argonian is one of the most frustrating parts of all this, suggesting she's better than many others, but Mirri falls right in line with the rest of Tamriel's perceptions when it comes to Goblins.

Mirri's vocal commentary on how gross Goblins are and that they make her wretch is disappointing on it's own, but the rapport gains from killing them is foul.

Maybe Mirri's relic finding adventures with her Mother came across goblins aplenty and they were always hostile, terrible, or whatnot? This naturally would breed some sort of dislike or hatred, would it not?

Maybe this is where her absolute disgust/hate of goblins came from?

Nebs wrote: »

It's not even that she just doesn't have any qualms about killing Goblins, it's that she likes you more if you do.

If someone is liking what you like or hating what you hate, of course it breeds rapport; it's the very nature of relationship building

Saucy_Jack

Interesting fact, you don't LOSE rapport with her if you use the Shadowsilk Gem to turn yourself into a goblin.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Aristocles22 wrote: »

Goblins in TES have white souls. Sapient beings have black souls. Highly controversial implications about soul colors notwithstanding, the difference means they are classed the same as wolves or bears or something like that.

In other TES games, this is the case, but ESO tramples all over that lore in many respects. Anything in ESO has the same kind of soul, and the same size of soul. The one-size-fits-all soul gems can be filled by a mudcrab, a bandit, a reanimated skeleton or an Ogrim. Even before the One Tamriel patch and with the hassle with different kinds of soul gems, the only thing that differentiated souls in ESO was the level of their owner, not the species. A level 30 skeever had a larger soul than a level 20 bandit.

hydrocynus

Shes a dark elf.

YOB

Cancel Mirri

eovogtb16_ESO

Mirri And I Duoing Harrowstorms https://imgur.com/a/bzL9NiU for the Akaviri

Hallothiel

This is a game. Perhaps it is not that helpful to bring irl life beliefs & politics into it?

I don’t particularly like killing animals. Especially wolves. And dragons. And senches. But this game (and most others) mean I have to - it’s very difficult not to - but I can differentiate between killing pixels and doing so irl.

I also don’t like the Dunmer & their attachment to slavery - but again, this is a game, a created world where beings may not be exactly how you want or think they should be.

Actually, that’s a lot like real life too......😉

Everstorm

Has anyone actually lost rapport when going near a harbor or boat? Main Quest in Blackwood requires getting on a boat in a harbor at one point and she didn't react to that.

GreenHere

Everstorm wrote: »

Has anyone actually lost rapport when going near a harbor or boat? Main Quest in Blackwood requires getting on a boat in a harbor at one point and she didn't react to that.

I seem to recall reading that they flat-out removed that particular Rapport detractor due to how impractical it was to avoid all boats, but I can't confirm it...

Nephthys

Well we have all been running around slaughtering everything in sight so I am not all twisted up about killing some goblins for Mirri. We do stuff in-game that we would not dream of doing in real life.... that's why it is called a game.

Olauron

There are no animal protection societies in Tamriel as far as I know. Goblins are hardly in the Red Book as well. There is nothing more wrong in killing a goblin than in killing a rat or a skeever.

Also keep in mind that Jiub became Saint Jiub for killing all the cliff racers. I am sure that the one who would kill all the goblins will be the Saint not just for dunmers, but for all sapient races of Tamriel.

DirkRavenclaw

GreenHere wrote: »

Goblins eat human babies. True fact!

Ah, so that is where all the Kids of Tamriel are gone ? Well, at least they dont like Animal Babies, those are still around

Zephiran23

Goblins get treated much the same as Reachfolk in previous games. There to move the story along. Yet you have things like the Altmer signing treaties with goblins on Summerset and enough writing about cultural practices to say that they are able to be recognised as a separate but established group on a very diverse continent. Ogres and trolls are a step away again and could make sense or perhaps alits or kagouti, but for someone who understands the historic Dunmer practices as wrong, it does seem out of place.

Did some dialogue about most of her family having been killed by goblins go missing? The motivation seems lacking.

TirantLoBlanch

I will tell you a secret. Goblins do not exist. No one real is hated or killed.

I will tell you a secret. A fictional universe NEEDS an encarnation of pure evil to bring a excuse for the pleasure of PURE ACTION.
i will tell you a secret. The drive to play a videogame is the strong nostalgia of being able to do things you cant, you dare not or you will lament to do in real life.

I will tell you a secret.
Even you in a secret compartment of you mind like to have god excuse to put out your restraint s and fustrations making pew pew bim baaam booom agains a slightly justified target.

I will tell you a secret.

Even if Mirri is somehow wron or contradictory, this makes she more credible and human than... Those internet moralists everywhere, wanting to convert every game in Candy crush...

A tip? Consider the difference between Fiction and reality. Consider how the fantasies can prevent you form DO real evil things in real world. Kill some frakking goblins, they are disgusting ugly and annoying, and if you have some regrets, adopt a beetle as pet in real life. Because cats are privileged-

fiender66

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

I will tell you a secret. Goblins do not exist. No one real is hated or killed.

I will tell you a secret. A fictional universe NEEDS an encarnation of pure evil to bring a excuse for the pleasure of PURE ACTION.
i will tell you a secret. The drive to play a videogame is the strong nostalgia of being able to do things you cant, you dare not or you will lament to do in real life.

I will tell you a secret.
Even you in a secret compartment of you mind like to have god excuse to put out your restraint s and fustrations making pew pew bim baaam booom agains a slightly justified target.

I will tell you a secret.

Even if Mirri is somehow wron or contradictory, this makes she more credible and human than... Those internet moralists everywhere, wanting to convert every game in Candy crush...

A tip? Consider the difference between Fiction and reality. Consider how the fantasies can prevent you form DO real evil things in real world. Kill some frakking goblins, they are disgusting ugly and annoying, and if you have some regrets, adopt a beetle as pet in real life. Because cats are privileged-

I quote this in full, just to give more opportunity that is being read.
Needless to say, I cannot agree more

SammyKhajit

Pulling torchbug or butterfly wings are cruel. This one agrees with Mirri.

Killing slavers, Telvanni hardcore, Veiled Inheritance and those Altmer *** who try to destroy the Argonians: that’s Sammy’s past time and favourite ways to get CP

Nogawd

What did the Ferengi ever do to her?

Pauls

Goblins are evil elves and their filth made them ugly, have no pity, no remorse and no fear to purify the land

virtus753

Actual game question:

I took Mirri through FG1 yesterday and got 0 rapport gains from any goblin (or other) kill.

Does she actually gain rapport now from them? I know she did not from goblins or snakes on the early weeks of the PTS.

If she is supposed to now, then the devs need to have a look at the ones in FG. Perhaps there are impostors among us...

irstarkey57

Nebs wrote: »

Goblins in ESO have historically been treated poorly, the Frostvault Dungeon is a ghastly example of Goblins' culture and sapience on full display, but them all being wiped out for the crime of being in the way of treasure. Goblins, virtually anywhere in Tamriel are reviled and hated. I never liked it, but I accepted it because that's the land of Tamriel.

What makes Mirri's desire to see Goblins killed so unpalatable is that in her introductory quest she's pointed out numerous times, and by an old scarred Argonian no less, that she's not a racist. In addition to this scene involving the Argonian woman, Mirri doesn't like seeing innocents killed.

Mirri being celebrated for not being a racist by specifically someone who was subjugated by her people, and her not liking the death of innocents make the mechanic of Mirri's perception of you improving based solely on killing someone of a specific race and not on anything that they've done so uncomfortable. Her being lauded by the Argonian is one of the most frustrating parts of all this, suggesting she's better than many others, but Mirri falls right in line with the rest of Tamriel's perceptions when it comes to Goblins.

Mirri's vocal commentary on how gross Goblins are and that they make her wretch is disappointing on it's own, but the rapport gains from killing them is foul.

Wtf are you all on about?