alright, update was cute, you can turn proc sets off again now.

Wing

Vevvev wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Caluurians was fine.

Wing wrote: »

ZOS has proven time and again that the REFUSE to balance one thing.

Take away Caluurion's and Vatesh 2h, no more one shots. You are correct they will never do that though, it'll be some idiotic overnerf that screws all Light Armor users and makes the Momentum ability itself into total garbage.

Every stamina character and their mothers grandmothers pets use rally/forward momentum in PvP. With or without that weapon. Unless they play without 2h. But why would you not use a 2h?

Learning or trying to "fight the meta", but usually they come around eventually and pick the weapon up. Hard to beat an weapon with an execution ability that does it's damage upon cast instead of when the blade lands. Secures so many kills and cuts through mages like a hot knife through butter.

Cries in MagDK

well stam is actually pretty limited.

sword and shield is straight up utility and lacks being a competitive option, used as a back bar buff / defensive option.

bow is in a similar boat, because of the lack of built in ranged stamina abilities, if your using bow abilities, your limited to them exclusively for the most part, you cannot back bar something like duel wield and apply rending slashes between snipes. so its used for back bar poison injection application.


that leaves 2H and dual wield as competitively viable.

both have major brutality, both have executes. the main difference is that 2H is more straight forward, it has a more traditional non clunky spamable, and the execute is JUST an execute. dual has a ranged spamable trading damage for utility, and a weaker execute trading damage for AoE, and a weaker spamable in blood craze trading damage for a nasty DoT. and 2H's major brutality has either a heal or a cleanse.

2H is not "OP" its just not clever. its skills are just doing the thing you want them to do and not trying to slip in weird gimmicks or utility.

i mean compare uppercut with something like stonefist. one just does damage, and the other is so bogged down in gimmicks that its unusable for what you want it to do.

Lynxyn

Wing wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Caluurians was fine.

Wing wrote: »

ZOS has proven time and again that the REFUSE to balance one thing.

Take away Caluurion's and Vatesh 2h, no more one shots. You are correct they will never do that though, it'll be some idiotic overnerf that screws all Light Armor users and makes the Momentum ability itself into total garbage.

Every stamina character and their mothers grandmothers pets use rally/forward momentum in PvP. With or without that weapon. Unless they play without 2h. But why would you not use a 2h?

Learning or trying to "fight the meta", but usually they come around eventually and pick the weapon up. Hard to beat an weapon with an execution ability that does it's damage upon cast instead of when the blade lands. Secures so many kills and cuts through mages like a hot knife through butter.

Cries in MagDK

well stam is actually pretty limited.

sword and shield is straight up utility and lacks being a competitive option, used as a back bar buff / defensive option.

bow is in a similar boat, because of the lack of built in ranged stamina abilities, if your using bow abilities, your limited to them exclusively for the most part, you cannot back bar something like duel wield and apply rending slashes between snipes. so its used for back bar poison injection application.


that leaves 2H and dual wield as competitively viable.

both have major brutality, both have executes. the main difference is that 2H is more straight forward, it has a more traditional non clunky spamable, and the execute is JUST an execute. dual has a ranged spamable trading damage for utility, and a weaker execute trading damage for AoE, and a weaker spamable in blood craze trading damage for a nasty DoT. and 2H's major brutality has either a heal or a cleanse.

2H is not "OP" its just not clever. its skills are just doing the thing you want them to do and not trying to slip in weird gimmicks or utility.

i mean compare uppercut with something like stonefist. one just does damage, and the other is so bogged down in gimmicks that its unusable for what you want it to do.

you simply cannot be serious
how does one get upset that they are locked into 2h and then also go on to say 2h is not overpowered? mag players are locked into literally only destro and it's spells aren't even half as good or useful compared to any of the 3 damage dealing stamina weapons. The reason it's so "locked in" is because 80% of pvp players are stamina and they're all going to use the weapon type that his proven patch after patch to be the best by a WIDE margin in pvp while none of the other stam weapons can even come close to competing. That or you're mag and have destro equiped simply because you need a weapon equiped.

xylena_lazarow

So far in the new meta, all I'm seeing are stat burst builds. Do any procs still give people trouble?

regime211

irstarkey57 wrote: »

Haven’t gone in yet but on paper it looks like magicka can’t use damage monster procs or damage set procs because of the spell damage needed is unreachable. So for anyone that has tested, how is mag compared to stam? Looks like stam would be severely op compared to mag. (Mag sorc excluded as always...)

It is honestly terrible for mag users right now.

Wing

Lynxyn wrote: »

you simply cannot be serious
how does one get upset that they are locked into 2h and then also go on to say 2h is not overpowered? mag players are locked into literally only destro and it's spells aren't even half as good or useful compared to any of the 3 damage dealing stamina weapons. The reason it's so "locked in" is because 80% of pvp players are stamina and they're all going to use the weapon type that his proven patch after patch to be the best by a WIDE margin in pvp while none of the other stam weapons can even come close to competing. That or you're mag and have destro equiped simply because you need a weapon equiped.

the weapon system was designed at ESO's inception, the devs argued that the 3 variations of destro staff +1 resto staff = 4 weapons. not saying I agree, but its what they said.

further the majority of class skills are all magicka skills, occasionally stamina get a morph. at launch, EVERY skill and morph was magicka. i dont think it was until patch 1.6 that a few stamina morphs became a thing. until that point it was go magicka or go home.

you think its bad now? back in 1.5 and earlier if stam existed all they had was the weapon lines. people like Fengrush are famous due in part to the fact that they used stamina builds in a time period when they were utter garbage. (no vigor either)


also your made up statistic of "80%" are stamina is just that, made up. if we go by the fact that stamina probably uses medium, and magicka probably uses light, with a bit of heavy mixed in all around, its pretty even. ZOS released armor stats a while ago when everyone was screaming for heavy armor nerfs with the same outrageous numbers your using of "OMG 80% of player are using heavy nerf!!" so they released the player data on armor and found it was pretty even across the board with heavy a little lower then light and medium.

stamina does shine in small scale, but magicka dominates raids. det, purge, regen spam, etc. the hallmark skills of organized raids are magicka.


also where did i say i was locked into 2H, or that i was upset about it. i simply stated reasons for why of the 4 stamina weapon lines, only two are obviously competitively viable to run, and between them 2H is the more straight forward option, so of course its going to be the most popular. i dont have a horse in this race, i dont care what I or people use.

spacefracking

The return of procs is a disaster for the human race.

xeNNNNN

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

There is little to no difference between proc and no proc from what I have seen.

Even if someone has a one shot build, it's not like they didn't exist in no-proc. Also, even then there's always the roll and/or block buttons.

People just want scape goats, though I will happily admit that if vateshran was deleted i'd be happy.

The biggest issue is and has always been perception, X group of people will perceive X set to be toxic and thus the main route cause of all their anger and frustration.

There are some scaling problems though which aren't the proc sets, thats just ZoS being ZoS and not thinking their patches through.......again.

Luede

Wing wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

angelofdeath333 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Caluurians was fine.

Wing wrote: »

ZOS has proven time and again that the REFUSE to balance one thing.

Take away Caluurion's and Vatesh 2h, no more one shots. You are correct they will never do that though, it'll be some idiotic overnerf that screws all Light Armor users and makes the Momentum ability itself into total garbage.

Every stamina character and their mothers grandmothers pets use rally/forward momentum in PvP. With or without that weapon. Unless they play without 2h. But why would you not use a 2h?

Learning or trying to "fight the meta", but usually they come around eventually and pick the weapon up. Hard to beat an weapon with an execution ability that does it's damage upon cast instead of when the blade lands. Secures so many kills and cuts through mages like a hot knife through butter.

Cries in MagDK

well stam is actually pretty limited.

sword and shield is straight up utility and lacks being a competitive option, used as a back bar buff / defensive option.

bow is in a similar boat, because of the lack of built in ranged stamina abilities, if your using bow abilities, your limited to them exclusively for the most part, you cannot back bar something like duel wield and apply rending slashes between snipes. so its used for back bar poison injection application.


that leaves 2H and dual wield as competitively viable.

both have major brutality, both have executes. the main difference is that 2H is more straight forward, it has a more traditional non clunky spamable, and the execute is JUST an execute. dual has a ranged spamable trading damage for utility, and a weaker execute trading damage for AoE, and a weaker spamable in blood craze trading damage for a nasty DoT. and 2H's major brutality has either a heal or a cleanse.

2H is not "OP" its just not clever. its skills are just doing the thing you want them to do and not trying to slip in weird gimmicks or utility.

i mean compare uppercut with something like stonefist. one just does damage, and the other is so bogged down in gimmicks that its unusable for what you want it to do.

Stam is not limited, 2hand only has a big advantage over the others, while the other weapon lines are competitive with the mag lines.

yeyesil

Malacath was nerfed.
Procs were nerfed.
You need 6.5k spell damage for OP magicka procs. You cannot have 6.5k spell damage with full proc build. Even if you have nearly 5-6k spell damage, you will be squishy.
Another l2p issue detected.

ResidentContrarian

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

There is little to no difference between proc and no proc from what I have seen.

Even if someone has a one shot build, it's not like they didn't exist in no-proc. Also, even then there's always the roll and/or block buttons.

People just want scape goats, though I will happily admit that if vateshran was deleted i'd be happy.

The biggest issue is and has always been perception, X group of people will perceive X set to be toxic and thus the main route cause of all their anger and frustration.

There are some scaling problems though which aren't the proc sets, thats just ZoS being ZoS and not thinking their patches through.......again.

Even for Vate 2H I haven't seen anything too amazing with it. When I die and it's in recap, I am usually on breach or front of group facing 20-30+ anyway, so it's not hard or unbelievable to expect to die. Especially not when I run zero defense...

Lynxyn

Wing wrote: »

Lynxyn wrote: »

you simply cannot be serious
how does one get upset that they are locked into 2h and then also go on to say 2h is not overpowered? mag players are locked into literally only destro and it's spells aren't even half as good or useful compared to any of the 3 damage dealing stamina weapons. The reason it's so "locked in" is because 80% of pvp players are stamina and they're all going to use the weapon type that his proven patch after patch to be the best by a WIDE margin in pvp while none of the other stam weapons can even come close to competing. That or you're mag and have destro equiped simply because you need a weapon equiped.

the weapon system was designed at ESO's inception, the devs argued that the 3 variations of destro staff +1 resto staff = 4 weapons. not saying I agree, but its what they said.

further the majority of class skills are all magicka skills, occasionally stamina get a morph. at launch, EVERY skill and morph was magicka. i dont think it was until patch 1.6 that a few stamina morphs became a thing. until that point it was go magicka or go home.

you think its bad now? back in 1.5 and earlier if stam existed all they had was the weapon lines. people like Fengrush are famous due in part to the fact that they used stamina builds in a time period when they were utter garbage. (no vigor either)


also your made up statistic of "80%" are stamina is just that, made up. if we go by the fact that stamina probably uses medium, and magicka probably uses light, with a bit of heavy mixed in all around, its pretty even. ZOS released armor stats a while ago when everyone was screaming for heavy armor nerfs with the same outrageous numbers your using of "OMG 80% of player are using heavy nerf!!" so they released the player data on armor and found it was pretty even across the board with heavy a little lower then light and medium.

stamina does shine in small scale, but magicka dominates raids. det, purge, regen spam, etc. the hallmark skills of organized raids are magicka.


also where did i say i was locked into 2H, or that i was upset about it. i simply stated reasons for why of the 4 stamina weapon lines, only two are obviously competitively viable to run, and between them 2H is the more straight forward option, so of course its going to be the most popular. i dont have a horse in this race, i dont care what I or people use.

whether you agree with zos or not people only use inferno unless they're a tank/support because inferno is better and in pvp people still only use inferno because I don't have to channel an attack for mag return and because I simply just need a mag weapon equiped.

back in 1.5?.. so like 7 years ago? this doesn't really hold water because we are now in update 30 and the difference between the bottom (mag) and the top (stam) is bigger than ever. In 1.5 people still barely knew how the game worked so a better stam COULD win. But now? Someone playing a fotm stamblade or fotm stamden will never lose to a magblade.

Sure I came up with 80% on the spot, but go into cyro and count. Tanks, healers and ball groups don't count we're talking straight "log in play log off" damage dealers.

When you say "stam is limited" you heavily imply you are locked to 2h. My point is that mag is locked into one terrible weapon that we are LITERALLY forced to equip because a lack of an alternative. Where of all 10 morphs some of the mag classes who don't have major breach/fracture use ele drain and mag sorc uses crushing shock because of no class spammable.

Scallan

I really don't see the issue here? Just wait for next patch and you can play your non-proc campaign.

It's only fair really, we had to play for an entire patch without procs enabled, now it's your turn.

Wing

Lynxyn wrote: »

whether you agree with zos or not people only use inferno unless they're a tank/support because inferno is better and in pvp people still only use inferno because I don't have to channel an attack for mag return and because I simply just need a mag weapon equiped.

back in 1.5?.. so like 7 years ago? this doesn't really hold water because we are now in update 30 and the difference between the bottom (mag) and the top (stam) is bigger than ever. In 1.5 people still barely knew how the game worked so a better stam COULD win. But now? Someone playing a fotm stamblade or fotm stamden will never lose to a magblade.

Sure I came up with 80% on the spot, but go into cyro and count. Tanks, healers and ball groups don't count we're talking straight "log in play log off" damage dealers.

When you say "stam is limited" you heavily imply you are locked to 2h. My point is that mag is locked into one terrible weapon that we are LITERALLY forced to equip because a lack of an alternative. Where of all 10 morphs some of the mag classes who don't have major breach/fracture use ele drain and mag sorc uses crushing shock because of no class spammable.

magicka might be more limited in weapon diversity, but it makes up for it in class skills. (this is not new, stamina has always been more generic compared to magicka due to inherent design decisions)

you say "ball groups dont count" but there players too, there also almost exclusively all magicka (making the magicka is weak argument look bad) its like saying "stamina is weak, but dont look at these groups that are exclusively stamina that wreck everything in their path. . ."

Trials are the same way, all magicka, and thats what ZOS balances around, not PvP, but end game organized PvE. the last stamina nerf of note was a Bow / Bow undaunted build used in Trials, it was unviable and never saw use in PvP.

because of stamina's nonexistence in these end game group activities that ZOS balances around it is effectively safe from sweeping changes.

they kind of balance out, 1 v 1 that advantage tends to lean stamina (unless its a sorc) as the amount of players increase, the balance towards magicka does as well, until the group is nothing but magicka builds.

irstarkey57

Wing wrote: »

Lynxyn wrote: »

whether you agree with zos or not people only use inferno unless they're a tank/support because inferno is better and in pvp people still only use inferno because I don't have to channel an attack for mag return and because I simply just need a mag weapon equiped.

back in 1.5?.. so like 7 years ago? this doesn't really hold water because we are now in update 30 and the difference between the bottom (mag) and the top (stam) is bigger than ever. In 1.5 people still barely knew how the game worked so a better stam COULD win. But now? Someone playing a fotm stamblade or fotm stamden will never lose to a magblade.

Sure I came up with 80% on the spot, but go into cyro and count. Tanks, healers and ball groups don't count we're talking straight "log in play log off" damage dealers.

When you say "stam is limited" you heavily imply you are locked to 2h. My point is that mag is locked into one terrible weapon that we are LITERALLY forced to equip because a lack of an alternative. Where of all 10 morphs some of the mag classes who don't have major breach/fracture use ele drain and mag sorc uses crushing shock because of no class spammable.

magicka might be more limited in weapon diversity, but it makes up for it in class skills. (this is not new, stamina has always been more generic compared to magicka due to inherent design decisions)

you say "ball groups dont count" but there players too, there also almost exclusively all magicka (making the magicka is weak argument look bad) its like saying "stamina is weak, but dont look at these groups that are exclusively stamina that wreck everything in their path. . ."

Trials are the same way, all magicka, and thats what ZOS balances around, not PvP, but end game organized PvE. the last stamina nerf of note was a Bow / Bow undaunted build used in Trials, it was unviable and never saw use in PvP.

because of stamina's nonexistence in these end game group activities that ZOS balances around it is effectively safe from sweeping changes.

they kind of balance out, 1 v 1 that advantage tends to lean stamina (unless its a sorc) as the amount of players increase, the balance towards magicka does as well, until the group is nothing but magicka builds.

To be fair, the ball groups are all mag cause they all run resto rapid regen to cross heal. So I wouldn’t count them either. It should be clear to anyone that stamina skills out perform mag by a lot. Just look at rally compared to degeneration for starters. Look at executioner compared to...well, nothing h less you try to count whatever they tried with impulse. The funny part is when you start to see stam running backbar destro for ele drain. They got it all man. Magicka is in a tough spot. (Mag sorc sold seperately)

Commandment

If you guys like boring pvp combat go play another MMO.
I on the other hand love the idea of throwing a bunch of random sets and rolling on people with it.

People are a little too serious about PVP as if they're going to a world arena championship, when in truth no one cares and just play to have fun.

The moment you take away what most of the community loves and what makes ESO unique from all the other MMO's is the moment you make it a dull and generic mmo that makes people leave. I feel like the frustration here is more of a pride issue when getting nuked because that person didnt dodge or know how to block.

I left a game like WOW after the game became boring, you get 0 sets. Gear always gets replaced after every expansion forcing you to grind and grind and grind. Pure damage dealers like a warrior can get soloed by a priest, and battle are long and drawn. Let's not kill a good thing. ESO has a good formula, I'de be damned if WOW players came here to complain why the game isnt as boring and dull as wow so they can "show" there "pvp prowess".

xylena_lazarow

Commandment wrote: »

Gear always gets replaced after every expansion forcing you to grind and grind and grind.

Same for this game too now with the way they upend the meta every three months.

Goregrinder

Commandment wrote: »

If you guys like boring pvp combat go play another MMO.
I on the other hand love the idea of throwing a bunch of random sets and rolling on people with it.

People are a little too serious about PVP as if they're going to a world arena championship, when in truth no one cares and just play to have fun.

The moment you take away what most of the community loves and what makes ESO unique from all the other MMO's is the moment you make it a dull and generic mmo that makes people leave. I feel like the frustration here is more of a pride issue when getting nuked because that person didnt dodge or know how to block.

I left a game like WOW after the game became boring, you get 0 sets. Gear always gets replaced after every expansion forcing you to grind and grind and grind. Pure damage dealers like a warrior can get soloed by a priest, and battle are long and drawn. Let's not kill a good thing. ESO has a good formula, I'de be damned if WOW players came here to complain why the game isnt as boring and dull as wow so they can "show" there "pvp prowess".

I think the complaint isn't that there are too many gear options in ESO. Most, if not all, players want build diversity. The argument comes down to player skill, and ZOS taking that away by dealing damage and healing for the player using proc sets. Players don't need to actually learn how to line up burst combos since their gear is just passively doing damage for them.

Tafvsulke

Divide PvP and PvE gear. Have them flagged as PvE or PvP. When you enter into a PvP Environment with PvE flagged gear, the entire set including traits shut off.

Create Stats that specifically function in PvP. Your PvP development team can then focus on nerfing or buffing just those sets.

Viewsfrom6ix

I don't get why they didn't just nerf procs in battle spirit like how they nerfed health regen. Seems like such a easy solution for balancing pvp and pve separately.

ealdwin

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

I don't get why they didn't just nerf procs in battle spirit like how they nerfed health regen. Seems like such a easy solution for balancing pvp and pve separately.

Probably for similar reasons for why they don't have separate tooltips in PVE vs. PVP, despite how simple that solution sounds. What those reasons are is anyones guess, maybe they think it would be too much work, or they want skills to perform the exact same in order to make moving between the two modes simpler. Who knows.

Tessitura

Commandment wrote: »

If you guys like boring pvp combat go play another MMO.
I on the other hand love the idea of throwing a bunch of random sets and rolling on people with it.

People are a little too serious about PVP as if they're going to a world arena championship, when in truth no one cares and just play to have fun.

The moment you take away what most of the community loves and what makes ESO unique from all the other MMO's is the moment you make it a dull and generic mmo that makes people leave. I feel like the frustration here is more of a pride issue when getting nuked because that person didnt dodge or know how to block.

I left a game like WOW after the game became boring, you get 0 sets. Gear always gets replaced after every expansion forcing you to grind and grind and grind. Pure damage dealers like a warrior can get soloed by a priest, and battle are long and drawn. Let's not kill a good thing. ESO has a good formula, I'de be damned if WOW players came here to complain why the game isnt as boring and dull as wow so they can "show" there "pvp prowess".

What are you talking about? This *** can be as boring as any other pvp. Your gear literally fought for you in the last patch, still does for some stam builds .If most of the community loves it, then why are most of them complaining? I see more and more people swearing off pvp in this game like it's the worst part of it. People want things to improve so they come here to let that be known. ESO does not have a good formula, ( Evidenced by the mega whiplash changes each patch. ) does not have good backend, and most certainly doesn't perform well. Sure, there is enough fun things there to keep us playing, but that doesn't mean we should bury our heads in the sand about it. By the way, these guys are ESO players not wow players

Also, by the way, WoW does some good things with their game, things like reliable backends, and decent class fantasy. This game could benefit from both those things. Right now classes are secondary to whether you are Stam or magicka. Green or blue mana. Which is dumb as hell. I mean, this thread is suppose to be a proc thing and it devolved into the age old stam vs magicka argument.

Lughlongarm

Where are these proc sets? Seriously where are they?

I see some posts on forums saying proc meta is back, Kristofer ESO and some other twichers complaining they can't 1vsX due to proc sets, but I rarely encounter them myself. When we had a real proc meta season, the death recap screen was full of proc effects, now I see very few if any.

I browse youtube for the most up to date PVP builds of some of the most known power players just to see if they thought of something I still haven't figured up myself, and to summarize, my PTS experience predicted this season meta 100%.

Good players are going for value stats sets such as: clever alchemist, mark of the pariah, burning spellweave, Essence Thief, stuhn's favor, Gaze of Sithis, mechanical acuity etc...

Only exceptions are:
-Frenzied Momentum Set(which is used by most stamina players)
-Merciless Charge/Stinging Slashes(in the rare cases when stamina don't go for the meta 2H, and try out a bleed build).
- Vicious Death for bombing builds
- Some defensive/sustain monster sets.
- Some heavy attack meme builds still exist but who cares

This is not why you feel squishy compared to pervious seasons .
2 main changes are: the healing recovery passive getting destroyed and the new CP master at arms.

Its strange that the same players that complaining about proc sets for bad for being "free damage", also complain they no longer get "fee" healing from the healing recovery passive.

You can say whatever you want regarding ZOS balancing capability and the rather clumsy way they chose to scale the proc sets, but the main balance goal of this season has been met.

Heavy armor builds going Malacath+ full proc(2-3 proc effects), no longer exist. Moreover, Heavy armor builds generally were been reduced drastically. Most stamina builds go 5 medium, magicka builds MinMax light with heavy, even some tank builds prefer going medium for the block cost reduction, the AOE damage reduction, the extra movement and healing from from WD passive.

The key for survival for this patch is damage mitigation+WD/SD for healing. Ya, this is probably a good time to be a vamp.

Overall, I think this patch is an improvement over what we had the last patch, the boring no sets cyrodiil or the procs mania+ the health recovery/ werewolf abuse on BG/imperial city.

Viewsfrom6ix

ealdwin wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

I don't get why they didn't just nerf procs in battle spirit like how they nerfed health regen. Seems like such a easy solution for balancing pvp and pve separately.

Probably for similar reasons for why they don't have separate tooltips in PVE vs. PVP, despite how simple that solution sounds. What those reasons are is anyones guess, maybe they think it would be too much work, or they want skills to perform the exact same in order to make moving between the two modes simpler. Who knows.

Yeah... Who knows. But there are tooltip differences between PvP and PvE like healing and shield skills. Same for shield and healing procs on sets/glyphs.

Viewsfrom6ix

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Where are these proc sets? Seriously where are they?

I see some posts on forums saying proc meta is back, Kristofer ESO and some other twichers complaining they can't 1vsX due to proc sets, but I rarely encounter them myself. When we had a real proc meta season, the death recap screen was full of proc effects, now I see very few if any.

I browse youtube for the most up to date PVP builds for some of the known power players just to see if they thought of something I still haven't figured up myself, and to summarize, my PTS experience predicted this season meta 100%.

Good players are going for value stats sets such as: clever alchemist, mark of the pariah, burning spellweave, Essence Thief, stuhn's favor, Gaze of Sithis, mechanical acuity etc...

Only exceptions are:
-Frenzied Momentum Set(which is used by most stamina players)
-Merciless Charge/Stinging Slashes(in the rare cases when stamina don't go for the meta 2H, and try out a bleed build).
- Vicious Death for bombing builds
- Some defensive/sustain monster sets.
- Some heavy attack meme builds still exist but who cares

This not why you feel squishy compared to pervious seasons .
2 main changes are: the healing recovery passive getting destroyed and the new CP master at arms.

Its strange that the same players that complaining about proc sets for bad for being "free damage", also complain they no longer get "fee" healing from the healing recovery passive.

You can say whatever you want regarding ZOS balancing capability and the rather clumsy way they chose to scale the proc sets, but the main balance goal of this season has been met.

Heavy armor builds going Malacath+ full proc(2-3 proc effects), no longer exist. Moreover, Heavy armor builds generally were been reduced drastically. Most stamina builds go 5 medium, magicka builds MinMax light with heavy, even some tank builds prefer going medium for the block cost reduction, the AOE damage reduction, the extra movement and healing from from WD passive.

The key for survival for this patch is damage mitigation+WD/SD for healing. Ya, this is probably a good time to be a vamp.

Overall, I think this patch is an improvement over compared what we had the last patch, the boring no sets cyrodiil or the procs mania+ the health recovery/ werewolf abuse on BG/imperial city.

It is in every BG match, especially high MMR matches. The most meta proc build is stamsorc with vate 2h, ashen grip and deadlands. It is capable of 1 shotting. I can get 6.9k WD and 8-11k tooltip damage on all 3 of those procs. I suck at stamsorc so I don't really play it but good players just get 20+ kills easily.

Lughlongarm

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Where are these proc sets? Seriously where are they?

I see some posts on forums saying proc meta is back, Kristofer ESO and some other twichers complaining they can't 1vsX due to proc sets, but I rarely encounter them myself. When we had a real proc meta season, the death recap screen was full of proc effects, now I see very few if any.

I browse youtube for the most up to date PVP builds for some of the known power players just to see if they thought of something I still haven't figured up myself, and to summarize, my PTS experience predicted this season meta 100%.

Good players are going for value stats sets such as: clever alchemist, mark of the pariah, burning spellweave, Essence Thief, stuhn's favor, Gaze of Sithis, mechanical acuity etc...

Only exceptions are:
-Frenzied Momentum Set(which is used by most stamina players)
-Merciless Charge/Stinging Slashes(in the rare cases when stamina don't go for the meta 2H, and try out a bleed build).
- Vicious Death for bombing builds
- Some defensive/sustain monster sets.
- Some heavy attack meme builds still exist but who cares

This not why you feel squishy compared to pervious seasons .
2 main changes are: the healing recovery passive getting destroyed and the new CP master at arms.

Its strange that the same players that complaining about proc sets for bad for being "free damage", also complain they no longer get "fee" healing from the healing recovery passive.

You can say whatever you want regarding ZOS balancing capability and the rather clumsy way they chose to scale the proc sets, but the main balance goal of this season has been met.

Heavy armor builds going Malacath+ full proc(2-3 proc effects), no longer exist. Moreover, Heavy armor builds generally were been reduced drastically. Most stamina builds go 5 medium, magicka builds MinMax light with heavy, even some tank builds prefer going medium for the block cost reduction, the AOE damage reduction, the extra movement and healing from from WD passive.

The key for survival for this patch is damage mitigation+WD/SD for healing. Ya, this is probably a good time to be a vamp.

Overall, I think this patch is an improvement over compared what we had the last patch, the boring no sets cyrodiil or the procs mania+ the health recovery/ werewolf abuse on BG/imperial city.

It is in every BG match, especially high MMR matches. The most meta proc build is stamsorc with vate 2h, ashen grip and deadlands. It is capable of 1 shotting. I can get 6.9k WD and 8-11k tooltip damage on all 3 of those procs. I suck at stamsorc so I don't really play it but good players just get 20+ kills easily.

Ya, I saw some stam sorc meme bleed and heavy attack builds on BG, I don't recall dyeing to such a build 1vs1, perhaps it can one shot a very squishy build. But this is nothing new, last patch a stam sorc could run more or less the same kind of build wearing heavy armor with the 25% Malacath version with sharpened maces and lover mundus. This patch version is medium armor with 16% Malacath (if they even take it) and everything else goes to weapon damage just to get the old tooltips. So overall the new setup results with less damage and less defense. I'm fine with that.

Jameson18

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

It is in every BG match, especially high MMR matches. The most meta proc build is stamsorc with vate 2h, ashen grip and deadlands. It is capable of 1 shotting. I can get 6.9k WD and 8-11k tooltip damage on all 3 of those procs. I suck at stamsorc so I don't really play it but good players just get 20+ kills easily.

We'll see what it all looks like by next week as the "metas" come into full evolution.

As it stands right now, I'm already smashing all these types on every toon, using stat builds and no balorgh.

If you're seeing Vat and Deadland builds, which are more or less heavy attack builds, work in bashes or crushing shock etc.

Draevik

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Where are these proc sets? Seriously where are they?

I see some posts on forums saying proc meta is back, Kristofer ESO and some other twichers complaining they can't 1vsX due to proc sets, but I rarely encounter them myself. When we had a real proc meta season, the death recap screen was full of proc effects, now I see very few if any.

I browse youtube for the most up to date PVP builds for some of the known power players just to see if they thought of something I still haven't figured up myself, and to summarize, my PTS experience predicted this season meta 100%.

Good players are going for value stats sets such as: clever alchemist, mark of the pariah, burning spellweave, Essence Thief, stuhn's favor, Gaze of Sithis, mechanical acuity etc...

Only exceptions are:
-Frenzied Momentum Set(which is used by most stamina players)
-Merciless Charge/Stinging Slashes(in the rare cases when stamina don't go for the meta 2H, and try out a bleed build).
- Vicious Death for bombing builds
- Some defensive/sustain monster sets.
- Some heavy attack meme builds still exist but who cares

This not why you feel squishy compared to pervious seasons .
2 main changes are: the healing recovery passive getting destroyed and the new CP master at arms.

Its strange that the same players that complaining about proc sets for bad for being "free damage", also complain they no longer get "fee" healing from the healing recovery passive.

You can say whatever you want regarding ZOS balancing capability and the rather clumsy way they chose to scale the proc sets, but the main balance goal of this season has been met.

Heavy armor builds going Malacath+ full proc(2-3 proc effects), no longer exist. Moreover, Heavy armor builds generally were been reduced drastically. Most stamina builds go 5 medium, magicka builds MinMax light with heavy, even some tank builds prefer going medium for the block cost reduction, the AOE damage reduction, the extra movement and healing from from WD passive.

The key for survival for this patch is damage mitigation+WD/SD for healing. Ya, this is probably a good time to be a vamp.

Overall, I think this patch is an improvement over compared what we had the last patch, the boring no sets cyrodiil or the procs mania+ the health recovery/ werewolf abuse on BG/imperial city.

It is in every BG match, especially high MMR matches. The most meta proc build is stamsorc with vate 2h, ashen grip and deadlands. It is capable of 1 shotting. I can get 6.9k WD and 8-11k tooltip damage on all 3 of those procs. I suck at stamsorc so I don't really play it but good players just get 20+ kills easily.

I fight you enough to be present in these same matches. I have sworn off procs on my Stamsorc and always try unique builds. Trying to avoid using D-Swing as well.

This is definitely a standard setup I see. Another one a DK was running was Scavenging Maw and Oblivions Foe. That maw hit my 30k mit sorc for 9k damage.

So then I decided to see what I could do to lower damage. Pirate Skele, Undo, 35k mit, major evasion. Still getting hit harder by procs than by skills.

Damage in general is so far overtuned it is comical. Talked my buddy into playing The Division 2 again. At least that PVE is fun

Tessitura

Jameson18 wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

It is in every BG match, especially high MMR matches. The most meta proc build is stamsorc with vate 2h, ashen grip and deadlands. It is capable of 1 shotting. I can get 6.9k WD and 8-11k tooltip damage on all 3 of those procs. I suck at stamsorc so I don't really play it but good players just get 20+ kills easily.

We'll see what it all looks like by next week as the "metas" come into full evolution.

As it stands right now, I'm already smashing all these types on every toon, using stat builds and no balorgh.

If you're seeing Vat and Deadland builds, which are more or less heavy attack builds, work in bashes or crushing shock etc.

I believe both work on medium attack weaves, Vate does for sure, and medium attacks can be put out about as fast as a crushing shock cast if you are timing it right. Sure you can still catch them with it sometimes, but it's unreliable. Maybe if they forced both to only work on full heavy attacks then we would see more counter play to it.

ThePianist

The whole weapon damage, penetration and resistances need to be simplified. Right now, it seems like nothing logical is working. If you have 5k pen, you shouldn’t be able to melt people. Oh but as long as you stack weapon damage, you’re able to melt people that have 20k+ resists. I literally watched a streamer slap on New moon 2h (greatsword), new moon jewelry and fortified brass body pieces. His pen was sitting just below 6k. I thought to myself that he wouldn’t be able to kill anyone but was still able to melt people on his stamplar. Mind blown.

Maybe it’s the jabs. But yeah, if you see a 10k non crit sub assault from me on your death recap, I’m just letting you know that I’m rocking 6k pen. Your 30k resists don’t matter.

Viewsfrom6ix

Draevik wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Where are these proc sets? Seriously where are they?

I see some posts on forums saying proc meta is back, Kristofer ESO and some other twichers complaining they can't 1vsX due to proc sets, but I rarely encounter them myself. When we had a real proc meta season, the death recap screen was full of proc effects, now I see very few if any.

I browse youtube for the most up to date PVP builds for some of the known power players just to see if they thought of something I still haven't figured up myself, and to summarize, my PTS experience predicted this season meta 100%.

Good players are going for value stats sets such as: clever alchemist, mark of the pariah, burning spellweave, Essence Thief, stuhn's favor, Gaze of Sithis, mechanical acuity etc...

Only exceptions are:
-Frenzied Momentum Set(which is used by most stamina players)
-Merciless Charge/Stinging Slashes(in the rare cases when stamina don't go for the meta 2H, and try out a bleed build).
- Vicious Death for bombing builds
- Some defensive/sustain monster sets.
- Some heavy attack meme builds still exist but who cares

This not why you feel squishy compared to pervious seasons .
2 main changes are: the healing recovery passive getting destroyed and the new CP master at arms.

Its strange that the same players that complaining about proc sets for bad for being "free damage", also complain they no longer get "fee" healing from the healing recovery passive.

You can say whatever you want regarding ZOS balancing capability and the rather clumsy way they chose to scale the proc sets, but the main balance goal of this season has been met.

Heavy armor builds going Malacath+ full proc(2-3 proc effects), no longer exist. Moreover, Heavy armor builds generally were been reduced drastically. Most stamina builds go 5 medium, magicka builds MinMax light with heavy, even some tank builds prefer going medium for the block cost reduction, the AOE damage reduction, the extra movement and healing from from WD passive.

The key for survival for this patch is damage mitigation+WD/SD for healing. Ya, this is probably a good time to be a vamp.

Overall, I think this patch is an improvement over compared what we had the last patch, the boring no sets cyrodiil or the procs mania+ the health recovery/ werewolf abuse on BG/imperial city.

It is in every BG match, especially high MMR matches. The most meta proc build is stamsorc with vate 2h, ashen grip and deadlands. It is capable of 1 shotting. I can get 6.9k WD and 8-11k tooltip damage on all 3 of those procs. I suck at stamsorc so I don't really play it but good players just get 20+ kills easily.

I fight you enough to be present in these same matches. I have sworn off procs on my Stamsorc and always try unique builds. Trying to avoid using D-Swing as well.

This is definitely a standard setup I see. Another one a DK was running was Scavenging Maw and Oblivions Foe. That maw hit my 30k mit sorc for 9k damage.

So then I decided to see what I could do to lower damage. Pirate Skele, Undo, 35k mit, major evasion. Still getting hit harder by procs than by skills.

Damage in general is so far overtuned it is comical. Talked my buddy into playing The Division 2 again. At least that PVE is fun

I actually moved over from Division 2 to ESO lol