Recommended PvP Healers?

Dinosauria

To start off - I'm a newbie to ESO so I know like absolutely nothing about how the builds and gameplay works here regarding anything really. However, I've really been itching to try out PvP in ESO as someone who used to PvP on WoW, and since this seems to be my new main game, I'd love to be able to get some insight on a potential build to run once I've hit max level and get my gear/CP up and running.

I have heard that healers may be able to work well in PvP? I enjoy the big ole team fights regarding both healing/buffing, but also dishing out damage when necessary as well. I've only done some PvP with a friend in a 4v4 fight where I ran a warden hybrid of sorts, and that was pretty fun.

Although I am more curious to see what actual healers people would recommend, and what guilds would like having in a fight. I don't mind min-maxing much either so races on top of that is fine as well.

Thanks!

Raeyleigh

Healers in PvP are sought after by guilds and are quite literally the MVP in coordinated group fights. A borderline must have.

What class or build is best depends on the exact environment. Healing in battlegrounds, small scale, large scale and zerg differs slightly.
It also depends on the exact group composition. For example a sorcerer healer could throw a negate, but so could any other sorcerer in the group, you dont specificly need a sorc healer in your group to do that. Thus class matters more the smaller the group gets and you have to choose what you want in the group.

As a healer you should be the hardest to kill person in the group since everybody will try to kill you.
Your general priorities should be: not dying > high healing output > providing group utility.
To be a great healer you need to do all 3 together.

Classes in short:
Templar, warden, necro and sorc are good choices because of convenient mechanics and bringing some rather unique utilities into a group.
Nightblades and dragonknight are not per se bad, but suffer from inconveniences and have no truly unique utility to specificly pick them for.
If you ask me Warden/Sorcerer are best in small scale combat, Templar/Necro are best in large scale scenarios, Nightblade/Dk are too gimmicky to be a top choice.

Races:
Argonian, Breton and High Elf in no specific order. Very build dependant.

Mundus:
Atronarch ist best by far, dont try ritual.

Food:
Sugar skulls ist best.

Generally best gear options, again in no particular order:
Mythics:
Pearls of Ehlnofey, Snow treaders

Monster helm:
Earthgore, Chokethorn, Engine guardian, Zoal, Immolator Charr

Arena weapons:
Maelstrom, Blackrose

5 piece sets:
Light armor: Transmutation, Gossamer, Meritous Service, Spell power cure, Curse eater, Hitis heart, Winters Respite, Combat physician
Heavy Armor: Seducer, Spectres Eye, Arkasis Genius, Saxheel Champion, Mark of the Pariah, Ironblood

Try to wear as many heavy pieces as possible. Medium isnt usefull, light armor makes you squishy and its best stat, penetration, is wasted on a healer.

Most usefull abilities that are not in class/restoration staff:
Vampire: Elusive mist
Support: Efficient Purge, Mystic Guard, Reviving Barrier
Psyjic: Time stop, Race against time, Meditate
Undaunted: Overflowing Altar, Energy Orb

Thraben

Dinosauria wrote: »

Although I am more curious to see what actual healers people would recommend, and what guilds would like having in a fight. I don't mind min-maxing much either so races on top of that is fine as well.

Thanks!

First things first, in Small Scale envirnoments, people tend to play without a healer, with all players being self-sufficient tanks. But let's talk about real group play:

You probably know the tendency in PvP Roleplaying games to stack more and more healers. In most games from 2000-2010 you typically had at least one main and one off-healer. Then more healers have been added in case that the healer is targeted.

In ESO groups larger than 4, it is generally the case that EVERY SINGLE player is quite a capable off-healer, and they heal according to their class'es strengths:

In case of a silence effect (Negate), a StamWarden is the main healer of the group.
When charging into large groups of enemies, a MagBlade has the highest HPS output.
MagSorcs are generally used to purge DotS and Negative effects, and are also the best SmallScale healers.
Templars are generally the best emergency healers,
MagWardens are the best healers in static combat situations.
Necroes are best at combat rezzing.
DKs often provide the group with shielding.
All classes have access to a good HoT and a Barrier.

The main "healer" of a group is generally the class who "feels" the most responsible for it, or who lacks offensive capabilities. Sets they wear typically include GOSSAMER, SPELL POWER CURE and EARTHGORE. Other sets depend on the group leader's preferences.

Kordai

Thraben wrote: »

Dinosauria wrote: »

Although I am more curious to see what actual healers people would recommend, and what guilds would like having in a fight. I don't mind min-maxing much either so races on top of that is fine as well.

Thanks!

First things first, in Small Scale envirnoments, people tend to play without a healer, with all players being self-sufficient tanks. But let's talk about real group play:

You probably know the tendency in PvP Roleplaying games to stack more and more healers. In most games from 2000-2010 you typically had at least one main and one off-healer. Then more healers have been added in case that the healer is targeted.

In ESO groups larger than 4, it is generally the case that EVERY SINGLE player is quite a capable off-healer, and they heal according to their class'es strengths:

In case of a silence effect (Negate), a StamWarden is the main healer of the group.
When charging into large groups of enemies, a MagBlade has the highest HPS output.
MagSorcs are generally used to purge DotS and Negative effects, and are also the best SmallScale healers.
Templars are generally the best emergency healers,
MagWardens are the best healers in static combat situations.
Necroes are best at combat rezzing.
DKs often provide the group with shielding.
All classes have access to a good HoT and a Barrier.

The main "healer" of a group is generally the class who "feels" the most responsible for it, or who lacks offensive capabilities. Sets they wear typically include GOSSAMER, SPELL POWER CURE and EARTHGORE. Other sets depend on the group leader's preferences.

Curious why you would say magsorcs are the best small-scale healers, would seem like magden or magcros would be the best mix of both offensive and healing support needed in a small group. Heck magcro even brings its own group purge with a little luck with corpses.

Thraben

Kordai wrote: »

Curious why you would say magsorcs are the best small-scale healers, would seem like magden or magcros would be the best mix of both offensive and healing support needed in a small group. Heck magcro even brings its own group purge with a little luck with corpses.

Magcro: the group purge is both static and gimmicky. Make no mistake, I personally love that skill, but it fails you when you need it most. It's actually that bad that my Necro runs the real Alliance skill purge and Vigor instead of the Necro class skills that are supposed to have the same benefits but require corpses. In PvE you can generate and place corpses quite reliably, but not in PvP.

MagSorc: the true deal here is that the Matriarch heal beats the Necroe's variant by a LANDSLIDE, its far more reliable and also more potent. Additionally, a purging and healing Sorc is still VERY dangerous, damage-wise.

MagWarden: A StamWarden is just a stronger and more flexible option. Their SubAssault includes a nice debuff, that's why a token MagWarden is sometimes there. The only healing skill that is really exclusive to MagWardens is only good in static situations.

Kordai

Thraben wrote: »

Kordai wrote: »

Curious why you would say magsorcs are the best small-scale healers, would seem like magden or magcros would be the best mix of both offensive and healing support needed in a small group. Heck magcro even brings its own group purge with a little luck with corpses.

Magcro: the group purge is both static and gimmicky. Make no mistake, I personally love that skill, but it fails you when you need it most. It's actually that bad that my Necro runs the real Alliance skill purge and Vigor instead of the Necro class skills that are supposed to have the same benefits but require corpses. In PvE you can generate and place corpses quite reliably, but not in PvP.

MagSorc: the true deal here is that the Matriarch heal beats the Necroe's variant by a LANDSLIDE, its far more reliable and also more potent. Additionally, a purging and healing Sorc is still VERY dangerous, damage-wise.

MagWarden: A StamWarden is just a stronger and more flexible option. Their SubAssault includes a nice debuff, that's why a token MagWarden is sometimes there. The only healing skill that is really exclusive to MagWardens is only good in static situations.

But how is a purge/healing sorc very dangerous damage-wise? You bring nothing unique besides negate. Boneyard is better in every way than lightning flood both in terms of the synergy and maj fracture. Streak is great for mobility but you are innately less tanky than magcros to start with. Streak does get you instant aoe cc but totem is a bit more versatile with another synergy, minor protection and minor vulnerability; not to mention that most likely the others will be running dawnbreakers with aoe cc anyway. Sorcs do have negate which is amazing and worth it to bring either a stamsorc or magsorc almost just for that, but you'd lose a chunk of the possible damage that the magcro can bring.

Thraben

Kordai wrote: »

But how is a purge/healing sorc very dangerous damage-wise? You bring nothing unique besides negate. Boneyard is better in every way than lightning flood both in terms of the synergy and maj fracture. Streak is great for mobility but you are innately less tanky than magcros to start with. Streak does get you instant aoe cc but totem is a bit more versatile with another synergy, minor protection and minor vulnerability; not to mention that most likely the others will be running dawnbreakers with aoe cc anyway. Sorcs do have negate which is amazing and worth it to bring either a stamsorc or magsorc almost just for that, but you'd lose a chunk of the possible damage that the magcro can bring.

Well, you spoke about Small Scale - where synergy strikes are generally not used. Do not forget, though, that MagSorcs are the strongest ranged class, and unlike a Necro, they can easily fight, and heal (and purge!!!) with minmaxed stats. A Necro needs negative status effects on himself in order to do that, a MagSorc can heal and shoot and purge for days while having a MagReg of 560.

---

In a group size of 4-6 with the intend of destroying large amounts of enemies, I, too, prefer MagNecroes - but in a bomber role. This is also the group size where you cannot rely any longer on the placing of the Blastbones for a purge when you have to get through a main gate, you need RELIABLE stuff. In terms of reliability, you will soon see that:

1) Render flash cannot compete with either Combat Prayer OR Twilight Heal
2) Renewing Undeath cannot compete with Cleanse
3) Braided Tether cannot compete with Echoing Vigor (!!!)

It took me months to accept that, and I know Grand Overlords who still refuse to accept it, but these are "fair weather" skills, that feel impactful when you don't need them, but which fail you when things get rough. Sadly, no one needs a "fair weather" healer.
That being said, I still have Radiant Regen, Combat Prayer, Cleanse and Vigor on my backbar, but the role is bomber/ off-healer, not main healer.

---

In a group size smaller than, say, 4, it is better to have no classical healer at all - the strongest battleground groups generally consist of 3 StamWardens and 1 StamNecro. IF the group has an actually healer in that case, it's one of the StamWardens due to their superior healing skills.

ResidentContrarian

Kordai wrote: »

But how is a purge/healing sorc very dangerous damage-wise? You bring nothing unique besides negate. Boneyard is better in every way than lightning flood both in terms of the synergy and maj fracture. Streak is great for mobility but you are innately less tanky than magcros to start with. Streak does get you instant aoe cc but totem is a bit more versatile with another synergy, minor protection and minor vulnerability; not to mention that most likely the others will be running dawnbreakers with aoe cc anyway. Sorcs do have negate which is amazing and worth it to bring either a stamsorc or magsorc almost just for that, but you'd lose a chunk of the possible damage that the magcro can bring.

To answer your question because a few reasons:

a. All of what you listed assumes that targets are either stationary or grouped together. Imagine how relevant any of that is versus a group of players either spread out or always moving. It's not very useful, and magcro damage itself isn't very useful versus moving targets. The META that no one is discussing for small or large groups next patch will be movement-based. If he encountered these builds already, then he knows how useful magcro is in that situation, group or not.

b. Matriarch heal can get more targets, better heal overall IMO due to range and LOS ignore. Alternating with healing ward and matriarch heal can get any group out of a tight spot. It also heals and does damage, even if it does take two slots

c. If you run all those skills listed, that simply means less bar space for heals and support skills. A sorc can always slot only an execute, matriarch and go heavy attack build (also overload which is coming back next patch) + support and still be effective. With procs returning and many of them activating on any kind of damage, that means there is more potential.

d. Speaking of procs, if they keep the scaling on max magicka, then...
d2. Surge and Blood Altar is also a strong combination when paired with the right procs and rr/mutagen. Both of these also happen to ignore LOS, so there is that too...

e. Speaking of stats, the passive bonuses on mag sorcs allow you to get more flexibility than other classes when healing (only would say that NB or Warden is comparable here). And then there is better sustain...

If you are really fine-tuning a healing build you will see why some will prefer a mag sorc over the other classes. I think in PvP each class has something to offer having healed on all of them in every situation, but personally I would also rather be a mag sorc healer over a necro.

exeeter702

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Healers in PvP are sought after by guilds and are quite literally the MVP in coordinated group fights. A borderline must have.

What class or build is best depends on the exact environment. Healing in battlegrounds, small scale, large scale and zerg differs slightly.
It also depends on the exact group composition. For example a sorcerer healer could throw a negate, but so could any other sorcerer in the group, you dont specificly need a sorc healer in your group to do that. Thus class matters more the smaller the group gets and you have to choose what you want in the group.

As a healer you should be the hardest to kill person in the group since everybody will try to kill you.
Your general priorities should be: not dying > high healing output > providing group utility.
To be a great healer you need to do all 3 together.

Classes in short:
Templar, warden, necro and sorc are good choices because of convenient mechanics and bringing some rather unique utilities into a group.
Nightblades and dragonknight are not per se bad, but suffer from inconveniences and have no truly unique utility to specificly pick them for.
If you ask me Warden/Sorcerer are best in small scale combat, Templar/Necro are best in large scale scenarios, Nightblade/Dk are too gimmicky to be a top choice.

Races:
Argonian, Breton and High Elf in no specific order. Very build dependant.

Mundus:
Atronarch ist best by far, dont try ritual.

Food:
Sugar skulls ist best.

Generally best gear options, again in no particular order:
Mythics:
Pearls of Ehlnofey, Snow treaders

Monster helm:
Earthgore, Chokethorn, Engine guardian, Zoal, Immolator Charr

Arena weapons:
Maelstrom, Blackrose

5 piece sets:
Light armor: Transmutation, Gossamer, Meritous Service, Spell power cure, Curse eater, Hitis heart, Winters Respite, Combat physician
Heavy Armor: Seducer, Spectres Eye, Arkasis Genius, Saxheel Champion, Mark of the Pariah, Ironblood

Try to wear as many heavy pieces as possible. Medium isnt usefull, light armor makes you squishy and its best stat, penetration, is wasted on a healer.

Most usefull abilities that are not in class/restoration staff:
Vampire: Elusive mist
Support: Efficient Purge, Mystic Guard, Reviving Barrier
Psyjic: Time stop, Race against time, Meditate
Undaunted: Overflowing Altar, Energy Orb

Nb healers are anything but gimmicks in small scale.

Raeyleigh

exeeter702 wrote: »

Nb healers are anything but gimmicks in small scale.

Unlike other healers nightblade cant heal itself with its own burst heal. As a consequence they need to use blessing of protection, ward ally or dampen magic as a burst heal option, but not only are those weaker by numbers than an acutall single target burst heal but shields are also not affected by block mitigation and blocking on blessing of protection is expensive and inefficient. That makes nightblade heal squishier than all other healer classes and also in my experience they are the first to get folded under heavy focus.
To get around this you have to play around cloak, shade, ehlnofey + ult and the fact that healthy offering ignores line of sight, which takes experience, skill and makes the class by definition tricky to play. In the same situation other classes would just hold block, spamm one button and be fine.
Thats why its gimmicky.

On another note, what makes dk healers suboptimal are also its healing skills. Cauterize is decent in small scale but borderline useless in large scale, cinderstorm is too small and costs too much to be realisticly usefull and obsidian shard not only requires targeting an enemy to heal, but also completly fails to heal if that target happens to dodgeroll.
The best part of a dk healer are the cc skills: chain pull, talons, fossilize and shifting standard.
Thats why its gimmicky.

exeeter702

Raeyleigh wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Nb healers are anything but gimmicks in small scale.

Unlike other healers nightblade cant heal itself with its own burst heal. As a consequence they need to use blessing of protection, ward ally or dampen magic as a burst heal option, but not only are those weaker by numbers than an acutall single target burst heal but shields are also not affected by block mitigation and blocking on blessing of protection is expensive and inefficient. That makes nightblade heal squishier than all other healer classes and also in my experience they are the first to get folded under heavy focus.
To get around this you have to play around cloak, shade, ehlnofey + ult and the fact that healthy offering ignores line of sight, which takes experience, skill and makes the class by definition tricky to play. In the same situation other classes would just hold block, spamm one button and be fine.
Thats why its gimmicky.

On another note, what makes dk healers suboptimal are also its healing skills. Cauterize is decent in small scale but borderline useless in large scale, cinderstorm is too small and costs too much to be realisticly usefull and obsidian shard not only requires targeting an enemy to heal, but also completly fails to heal if that target happens to dodgeroll.
The best part of a dk healer are the cc skills: chain pull, talons, fossilize and shifting standard.
Thats why its gimmicky.

With all due respect, I dont believe you have enough experience with NB healers to make this assessment.

Dark cloak brawler based NB healers are anything but squishy, especially in cp enabled environments. NBs not having a self burst heal is not their issue, despite countless claims to the contrary by many who dont understand the spec outside of shadowy disguise based damage dealing builds. Magblade is in need of a lot of help, but most of the posts by newer players on the forums of late often are focusing on the wrong areas. A self target burst heal foes not solve thier issue. Playing magblade healer appropriately, with proper mitigation setup, with proper hot application and playing right, is their line of defence, and if it is slightly weaker than it should be (which I argue it does in some cases) does not make that aspect a gimmick.

Healthy offering is extremely potent and absolutely a life saver in small group play, nb healers ability to kite with image and refreshing path is still a real strength if circumstantial. Cast time complaints aside (which are greatly exaggerated often), soul siphon is probably the single strongest group wide life saving ult in the game, and coupled with a properly built magblade for healing done passives and their inherent ult gen, they are absolutely a strong addition to any group. Its comical to talk about not playing against organized groups that focus targets and also talk about cyrodil, which is as casual as it gets in terms of pvp where the situations where individual players ACTUALLy have to outplay other players on a micro level and have a measurable burden of performance are few and far between. If you are using bop or healing ward for self heal needs, you are doing it wrong. But there is a case for the later along side brp resto but that is another discussion entirely and not really applicable in cyrodil zerg surfing pvdoor. In no version of the current game are NB healers squishy.

They are not a gimmick, but magblade does need help. Do not conflate the two. Magblade has been a strong healer for many years and they have never possessed a self target heal button and that will never be what makes or breaks them. The people who suggest they need one are missing the actual issue.

Thraben

exeeter702 wrote: »

Nb healers are anything but gimmicks in small scale.

Magblade healers can be used in small medium scale to replace Templars, but it's the most difficult healer class to play.

Raeyleigh

exeeter702 wrote: »

With all due respect, I dont believe you have enough experience with NB healers to make this assessment.

I probably dont have as much experience on the spec as you and prefer playing other classes as healers, but that doesnt mean my statement is automaticly false.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Dark cloak brawler based NB healers are anything but squishy, especially in cp enabled environments. NBs not having a self burst heal is not their issue, ... Playing magblade healer appropriately, with proper mitigation setup, with proper hot application and playing right, is their line of defence, ...

No properly built and played healer is squishy or easy to kill and layering hots is not an exlusive mechanic to magblade by any stretch. Tho not having a proper self burst heal to go along with blocking does make nb healers the squishiest healers by comparison full stop. Being squishy relative to other healing specs does not make healblade easy to kill at all, that is correct.

exeeter702 wrote: »

with a properly built magblade for healing done passives and their inherent ult gen, they are absolutely a strong addition to any group.

Any properly played healer is a strong addition to a group. But what stands out about nb is the amount of hoops you have to jump through to basicly do the same thing a sorc healer could do without a second thought. Thats why i called it gimmicky not as in the class can be reduced to a gimmick, but as in gimmicky to play and thus not easy to pick up by a new player, which this thread is about.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Its comical to talk about not playing against organized groups that focus targets and also talk about cyrodil, which is as casual as it gets in terms of pvp where the situations where individual players ACTUALLy have to outplay other players on a micro level and have a measurable burden of performance are few and far between.

I agree. Aside from a general lack of brains in cyro, between cp, continous attack and combat medic passive and various other buffs and finally the ability to just outnumber your opponent, healing in cyro is easy mode and less competitive compared to bg. For what its worth my opinion on nb heal and healers in generall formed in high mmr bg premade matches. Both from trying it myself and observing other top players play it.

exeeter702 wrote: »

They are not a gimmick, but magblade does need help. Do not conflate the two. Magblade has been a strong healer for many years and they have never possessed a self target heal button and that will never be what makes or breaks them. The people who suggest they need one are missing the actual issue.

I agree. Imho the actual issue is that the spec has no unique utility to specificly choose it over other heal classes for.
Major expedition and an aoe stun are by no means unique utilities to bring along and even the synergy from consuming darkness can be replicated by just chugging down an invisibility potion. Same story with dk healers.
By contrast:
Templars bring purge syngergy, aoe minor expedition and solar prison bombs
Wardens bring impaling shards, frozen retreat, minor toughness and permafrost
Necros bring totem, collossus and revive ult
Sorcs bring restraining prison/minefield, streak and negate

gariondavey

I have a magsorc healer/dps and a magplar healer/dps (I focus 50 - 50 on healing and dps). Love them both! I play in high mmr bgs and cyro on them