My concerns about the oblivion portals

BlueRaven

Here is a list of my concerns about the new oblivion portals. I know these concerns will be ignored by the game developers, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

1) Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

2) How long will it be until racing through a cleared gate just to get to the final boss a few seconds too late, starts getting really old. (Especially if the player is wearing heavy armor,)

3) With the extraordinary length, high difficulty, combined with meager rewards, how long before people start feeling it’s not worth it.

4) This content feels like it’s designed to discourage new and lower end players from doing them.. Combined with the difficulty of actually finding a portal, how many people will just not bother after a while.

Thank you.

ajkb78

BlueRaven wrote: »

Here is a list of my concerns about the new oblivion portals. I know these concerns will be ignored by the game developers, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

1) Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

2) How long will it be until racing through a cleared gate just to get to the final boss a few seconds too late, starts getting really old. (Especially if the player is wearing heavy armor,)

3) With the extraordinary length, high difficulty, combined with meager rewards, how long before people start feeling it’s not worth it.

4) This content feels like it’s designed to discourage new and lower end players from doing them.. Combined with the difficulty of actually finding a portal, how many people will just not bother after a while.

Thank you.

What extraordinary length? There's like 3 islands with reasonably soloable minibosses, plus a final big bad (reasonably tough now they buffed his HP by a factor of 10 and made him hit harder) but the whole thing is pretty quick if there's more than one of you. My worry is that they'll just get obliterated in seconds, not that they're too long. Plus they're all the same, at least the ones I've found, so they'll get boring quickly.

BlueRaven

ajkb78 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Here is a list of my concerns about the new oblivion portals. I know these concerns will be ignored by the game developers, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

1) Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

2) How long will it be until racing through a cleared gate just to get to the final boss a few seconds too late, starts getting really old. (Especially if the player is wearing heavy armor,)

3) With the extraordinary length, high difficulty, combined with meager rewards, how long before people start feeling it’s not worth it.

4) This content feels like it’s designed to discourage new and lower end players from doing them.. Combined with the difficulty of actually finding a portal, how many people will just not bother after a while.

Thank you.

What extraordinary length? There's like 3 islands with reasonably soloable minibosses, plus a final big bad (reasonably tough now they buffed his HP by a factor of 10 and made him hit harder) but the whole thing is pretty quick if there's more than one of you. My worry is that they'll just get obliterated in seconds, not that they're too long. Plus they're all the same, at least the ones I've found, so they'll get boring quickly.

Length as in when you do a dragon or hs, you show up at the location and you can fight the boss. You can be mounted right up to your first attack.

In the oblivion portals, there are two (three?) islands, and an interior space that you have to get through. Low stam characters or tanks in heavy, even people who experience long load screens... Yikes.

Ythotha

I think they should have focused on this oblivion portal idea more and made it something more interesting with attached rewards. (aka skins)
It just feels like any open world thing already existing in the game with additional steps.

Anyron

BlueRaven wrote: »

Here is a list of my concerns about the new oblivion portals. I know these concerns will be ignored by the game developers, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

1) Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

2) How long will it be until racing through a cleared gate just to get to the final boss a few seconds too late, starts getting really old. (Especially if the player is wearing heavy armor,)

3) With the extraordinary length, high difficulty, combined with meager rewards, how long before people start feeling it’s not worth it.

4) This content feels like it’s designed to discourage new and lower end players from doing them.. Combined with the difficulty of actually finding a portal, how many people will just not bother after a while.

Thank you.

Excuse me, you want it easier? Why ? Most overland content now can be done with one hand closed eyes already (mostly mob trash is just annoying) and you want it even more boring?

grumpy_pants95

BlueRaven wrote: »

Here is a list of my concerns about the new oblivion portals. I know these concerns will be ignored by the game developers, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

1) Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

2) How long will it be until racing through a cleared gate just to get to the final boss a few seconds too late, starts getting really old. (Especially if the player is wearing heavy armor,)

3) With the extraordinary length, high difficulty, combined with meager rewards, how long before people start feeling it’s not worth it.

4) This content feels like it’s designed to discourage new and lower end players from doing them.. Combined with the difficulty of actually finding a portal, how many people will just not bother after a while.

Thank you.

I think you're forgetting horrowstorms. When they first hit horrowstorms were absolutely smashed left and right and everyone went crazy for them throughout the first weeks of them being released for the achievements. - the reward from them aren't worth the massive hustle harrowstorms are at all unless there's an event going on and you get motifs and different "extra" stuff on top of the 1 ring and few matts or whatever else you can get from them.

1) if the portal is being cleared before you are entering it then leave and find another one?

2) This literally happens with most delves/public dungeons/ dolmens/harrowstorms... Eventually everyone will get what they need and you'll have your time to shine.

3) Harrowstorms, dolmens, delves, public dungeons aren't "worth it" either really.. They're still being done, sorry i don't understand that point.

4) I don't think people will be discouraged from doing them. Just like any new content, people will get cracking until they get their achievements and move on. - "Difficulty finding a portal" of course there is one.. Just like there is a cooldown on dolmens/harrowstorms and everything else..

tonyblack

Not on pts so i can’t check, but are there even any reasons to do them? From what i read they drop generic trash and difficulty similar to public dungeon. If there is no daily quests for them with cool motif they’ll die in a month after release. Not because they difficult, but rather lack proper rewards.

BlueRaven

Anyron wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Here is a list of my concerns about the new oblivion portals. I know these concerns will be ignored by the game developers, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

1) Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

2) How long will it be until racing through a cleared gate just to get to the final boss a few seconds too late, starts getting really old. (Especially if the player is wearing heavy armor,)

3) With the extraordinary length, high difficulty, combined with meager rewards, how long before people start feeling it’s not worth it.

4) This content feels like it’s designed to discourage new and lower end players from doing them.. Combined with the difficulty of actually finding a portal, how many people will just not bother after a while.

Thank you.

Excuse me, you want it easier? Why ? Most overland content now can be done with one hand closed eyes already (mostly mob trash is just annoying) and you want it even more boring?

I take it since you bolded a part of #3 that is the one you are referring too?

On that I was more pointing out how the portals are high effort, low reward. So why would players want to spend their time doing them? If players did not care about rewards, “Kyne’s Aegis” would be more popular.

But speaking to your broader point, yes they can be made easier, but also not necessarily.

First off the concept of a public dungeon having a timed random entrance is kind of appealing to me. However that mechanic, coupled with the “low profile” type markers will make entering them difficult, cutting down on participation. People with slower mounts for example, may have a hard time getting there on time. Then upon entering, getting to the boss at the end poses a challenge not seen before in this game for most players.

Remember, these are supposed to be the dragons, geysers, and harrow storms of this chapter. They are NOT the solo arena replacement. Is a level 12 with no cp supposed to just not participate with these portals? If not, then what are they for?

If zos were to implement a new solo arena that has a random entrance then whatever, new level 12’s are not who they are designed for.
But a new player who comes across these, what are they supposed to do? How is the gameplay of these portals supposed to work with those players? Just go in and wait for more people? Does not sound like fun.

Personally if I was designing these portals I would change a few things.

First, while the map for each portal “event” could be different, once inside everyone has the same path to the boss. This way a player who is unable to solo these, knows help may come soon. Also players will know it’s not a race to the end, that another group won’t clear it before they get there.

Second, after each mini boss gets defeated, new players entering the portal automatically enter at the latest “check point”.

Third, make the rewards worthwhile.

BlueRaven

grumpy_pants95 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Here is a list of my concerns about the new oblivion portals. I know these concerns will be ignored by the game developers, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

1) Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

2) How long will it be until racing through a cleared gate just to get to the final boss a few seconds too late, starts getting really old. (Especially if the player is wearing heavy armor,)

3) With the extraordinary length, high difficulty, combined with meager rewards, how long before people start feeling it’s not worth it.

4) This content feels like it’s designed to discourage new and lower end players from doing them.. Combined with the difficulty of actually finding a portal, how many people will just not bother after a while.

Thank you.

I think you're forgetting horrowstorms. When they first hit horrowstorms were absolutely smashed left and right and everyone went crazy for them throughout the first weeks of them being released for the achievements. - the reward from them aren't worth the massive hustle harrowstorms are at all unless there's an event going on and you get motifs and different "extra" stuff on top of the 1 ring and few matts or whatever else you can get from them.

1) if the portal is being cleared before you are entering it then leave and find another one?

2) This literally happens with most delves/public dungeons/ dolmens/harrowstorms... Eventually everyone will get what they need and you'll have your time to shine.

3) Harrowstorms, dolmens, delves, public dungeons aren't "worth it" either really.. They're still being done, sorry i don't understand that point.

4) I don't think people will be discouraged from doing them. Just like any new content, people will get cracking until they get their achievements and move on. - "Difficulty finding a portal" of course there is one.. Just like there is a cooldown on dolmens/harrowstorms and everything else..

The thing about harrowstorms is that they are high profile, you can see them from a distance. They have map markers. Also you can judge if there are others nearby participating in the event. If not you can just keep riding by. These portals you enter blind.

Delves are intended to be solo’d by even a level 4 no cp character. So...
Also some delves to this day drop rewards even a high level cp player may want. They also have sky shards, and dailies associated with them.

I have done a few portals on the pts, and I am not seeing the point in them. I have not personally checked the achievements for them, nor have I checked if there are dailies (I will assume there are) but now after doing them just a few times they are so unappealing. So much work, so little reward and I have to really search for them? Ugh.

Dragons by contrast, super fun. When elsweyr came out I spent days doing them, I still do them on occasion, no daily needed.

phantasmalD

Last time I tried one, only the final boss was mandatory. Everything else could be skipped as the doors and portals didn't require the fights to be finished to become activatable.

BlueRaven

tonyblack wrote: »

Not on pts so i can’t check, but are there even any reasons to do them? From what i read they drop generic trash and difficulty similar to public dungeon. If there is no daily quests for them with cool motif they’ll die in a month after release. Not because they difficult, but rather lack proper rewards.

While I have done a few portals on the pts, most of my time has been consumed with the companions (another head scratcher).
I assume there will be dailies, but really a daily where you have to run around the map looking for one. Then if you can’t solo them hope other players entered the portal. Then spend a considerable amount of time in them..

How many dailies do people skip now? The mages guild dailies would be the closest equivalent to these. We’re those “fun”? Myself I did them until I got the furnishing reward, then never looked back.

Anyron

BlueRaven wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Here is a list of my concerns about the new oblivion portals. I know these concerns will be ignored by the game developers, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

1) Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

2) How long will it be until racing through a cleared gate just to get to the final boss a few seconds too late, starts getting really old. (Especially if the player is wearing heavy armor,)

3) With the extraordinary length, high difficulty, combined with meager rewards, how long before people start feeling it’s not worth it.

4) This content feels like it’s designed to discourage new and lower end players from doing them.. Combined with the difficulty of actually finding a portal, how many people will just not bother after a while.

Thank you.

Excuse me, you want it easier? Why ? Most overland content now can be done with one hand closed eyes already (mostly mob trash is just annoying) and you want it even more boring?

I take it since you bolded a part of #3 that is the one you are referring too?

On that I was more pointing out how the portals are high effort, low reward. So why would players want to spend their time doing them? If players did not care about rewards, “Kyne’s Aegis” would be more popular.

But speaking to your broader point, yes they can be made easier, but also not necessarily.

First off the concept of a public dungeon having a timed random entrance is kind of appealing to me. However that mechanic, coupled with the “low profile” type markers will make entering them difficult, cutting down on participation. People with slower mounts for example, may have a hard time getting there on time. Then upon entering, getting to the boss at the end poses a challenge not seen before in this game for most players.

Remember, these are supposed to be the dragons, geysers, and harrow storms of this chapter. They are NOT the solo arena replacement. Is a level 12 with no cp supposed to just not participate with these portals? If not, then what are they for?

If zos were to implement a new solo arena that has a random entrance then whatever, new level 12’s are not who they are designed for.
But a new player who comes across these, what are they supposed to do? How is the gameplay of these portals supposed to work with those players? Just go in and wait for more people? Does not sound like fun.

Personally if I was designing these portals I would change a few things.

First, while the map for each portal “event” could be different, once inside everyone has the same path to the boss. This way a player who is unable to solo these, knows help may come soon. Also players will know it’s not a race to the end, that another group won’t clear it before they get there.

Second, after each mini boss gets defeated, new players entering the portal automatically enter at the latest “check point”.

Third, make the rewards worthwhile.

Yes i was refering to part 3 ..
I just miss something like dolmen when this game started, how it felt how challenging it was and how nice it felt when you managed to destroy one of them with friends
This game really went too easy

BlueRaven

Anyron wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Here is a list of my concerns about the new oblivion portals. I know these concerns will be ignored by the game developers, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

1) Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

2) How long will it be until racing through a cleared gate just to get to the final boss a few seconds too late, starts getting really old. (Especially if the player is wearing heavy armor,)

3) With the extraordinary length, high difficulty, combined with meager rewards, how long before people start feeling it’s not worth it.

4) This content feels like it’s designed to discourage new and lower end players from doing them.. Combined with the difficulty of actually finding a portal, how many people will just not bother after a while.

Thank you.

Excuse me, you want it easier? Why ? Most overland content now can be done with one hand closed eyes already (mostly mob trash is just annoying) and you want it even more boring?

I take it since you bolded a part of #3 that is the one you are referring too?

On that I was more pointing out how the portals are high effort, low reward. So why would players want to spend their time doing them? If players did not care about rewards, “Kyne’s Aegis” would be more popular.

But speaking to your broader point, yes they can be made easier, but also not necessarily.

First off the concept of a public dungeon having a timed random entrance is kind of appealing to me. However that mechanic, coupled with the “low profile” type markers will make entering them difficult, cutting down on participation. People with slower mounts for example, may have a hard time getting there on time. Then upon entering, getting to the boss at the end poses a challenge not seen before in this game for most players.

Remember, these are supposed to be the dragons, geysers, and harrow storms of this chapter. They are NOT the solo arena replacement. Is a level 12 with no cp supposed to just not participate with these portals? If not, then what are they for?

If zos were to implement a new solo arena that has a random entrance then whatever, new level 12’s are not who they are designed for.
But a new player who comes across these, what are they supposed to do? How is the gameplay of these portals supposed to work with those players? Just go in and wait for more people? Does not sound like fun.

Personally if I was designing these portals I would change a few things.

First, while the map for each portal “event” could be different, once inside everyone has the same path to the boss. This way a player who is unable to solo these, knows help may come soon. Also players will know it’s not a race to the end, that another group won’t clear it before they get there.

Second, after each mini boss gets defeated, new players entering the portal automatically enter at the latest “check point”.

Third, make the rewards worthwhile.

Yes i was refering to part 3 ..
I just miss something like dolmen when this game started, how it felt how challenging it was and how nice it felt when you managed to destroy one of them with friends
This game really went too easy

Fair enough, but I am an officer in a few guilds, one of my “jobs” is that I help new players with things in game. This can be a wb in Auridon, a public dungeon group event, etc.
Even though I am not a super high end player (I have done CR+3 on normal). These things in the vanilla zones also feel trivial to me, but they appear quite daunting to a new player. So I am always looking at this game through their eyes.

I have stuck my head in the two new public dungeons, the standard ones, and I like them quite a bit.
But these portals are on another level, difficulty wise. I can’t solo them, although tbh I will admit to being a bit of a glass canon. To me, like the new cp system, they seem like a good idea on paper, just executed badly.

ectoplasmicninja

I started a new level 1 character on PTS, did a bunch of quests to get to about level 14, no CP, summoned Bastian, and hopped into one of those portals. We died. A lot. I got to a point where it just didn't make sense to continue, and then I couldn't leave easily either. It might be the same old regular overland snoozefest for high end players, but the game is not built exclusively for high end players. Oblivion Gates are for sure not going to be a friendly experience for a new player. I'm not saying they need to change, I'm just saying - the first time a newbie stumbles into one of those, it is going to teach them the meaning of pain.

Anyron

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I started a new level 1 character on PTS, did a bunch of quests to get to about level 14, no CP, summoned Bastian, and hopped into one of those portals. We died. A lot. I got to a point where it just didn't make sense to continue, and then I couldn't leave easily either. It might be the same old regular overland snoozefest for high end players, but the game is not built exclusively for high end players. Oblivion Gates are for sure not going to be a friendly experience for a new player. I'm not saying they need to change, I'm just saying - the first time a newbie stumbles into one of those, it is going to teach them the meaning of pain.

I still don't like how it is today.
Back when veteran ranks were thing game was much much better. Zones were scaled to levels and you just couldn't go there unless you did previous zones. There was order in it.

Now you can go anywhere to do anything and it just sucks. Game is so easy its not fun at all. Why should i level and upgrade gear for overland when there is no challenge at all?

Tintaglia72

Anyron wrote: »

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I started a new level 1 character on PTS, did a bunch of quests to get to about level 14, no CP, summoned Bastian, and hopped into one of those portals. We died. A lot. I got to a point where it just didn't make sense to continue, and then I couldn't leave easily either. It might be the same old regular overland snoozefest for high end players, but the game is not built exclusively for high end players. Oblivion Gates are for sure not going to be a friendly experience for a new player. I'm not saying they need to change, I'm just saying - the first time a newbie stumbles into one of those, it is going to teach them the meaning of pain.

I still don't like how it is today.
Back when veteran ranks were thing game was much much better. Zones were scaled to levels and you just couldn't go there unless you did previous zones. There was order in it.

Now you can go anywhere to do anything and it just sucks. Game is so easy its not fun at all. Why should i level and upgrade gear for overland when there is no challenge at all?

It's quite simple, if you don't like the game, then leave and stop playing. The reason VET levels were removed was because the majority of the player base hated them. Not everyone is going to be happy all the time. Those players actually leave and find a game they do like and that is ok.

GreenHere

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I started a new level 1 character on PTS, did a bunch of quests to get to about level 14, no CP, summoned Bastian, and hopped into one of those portals. We died. A lot. I got to a point where it just didn't make sense to continue, and then I couldn't leave easily either. It might be the same old regular overland snoozefest for high end players, but the game is not built exclusively for high end players. Oblivion Gates are for sure not going to be a friendly experience for a new player. I'm not saying they need to change, I'm just saying - the first time a newbie stumbles into one of those, it is going to teach them the meaning of pain.

(emphasis mine)

I kind of like that, personally.

As a new player in any given game, I hate it when I can just march straight into hellfire with my low level noob and defeat the Arbiter of Eternal Suffering with my rusty spatula and cardboard starter armor. It feels kind of pandering and vaguely insulting to know that the big bads are actually just babysitters meant to stroke my ego early on. I want scary places to spank my *** for wandering into them too early, not hold my hand and tell me I'm such a special little guy.

And as a veteran player, I like things to be meaty enough to feel on par with their aesthetic. If I'm breezing through the realm of fiery torment and bodily anguish like it was actually the realm of butterfly farts and puppy kisses then I'm just... bored & disappointed.

I'm not saying that the entire game should be built around veteran players or a hard level of difficulty, but there should be some kind of consistency with how daunting something looks and how challenging it actually is, I think. And more than that -- there's gotta be some kind of openly "you should get stronger to deal with this" kind of content out in the overworld to spur new players to want to level up in order to tackle greater challenges. I thought Dolmens, Geysers, Dragons, and Harrowstorms fit that role quite nicely.

If Portals come out as lava-filled daycare centers, I feel like it'll be a pretty big misstep and a departure from past game logic.



(I'm not meaning to target/refute your post in particular @ectoplasmicninja , I just liked the way you worded things!)

BlueRaven

GreenHere wrote: »

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I started a new level 1 character on PTS, did a bunch of quests to get to about level 14, no CP, summoned Bastian, and hopped into one of those portals. We died. A lot. I got to a point where it just didn't make sense to continue, and then I couldn't leave easily either. It might be the same old regular overland snoozefest for high end players, but the game is not built exclusively for high end players. Oblivion Gates are for sure not going to be a friendly experience for a new player. I'm not saying they need to change, I'm just saying - the first time a newbie stumbles into one of those, it is going to teach them the meaning of pain.

(emphasis mine)

I kind of like that, personally.

As a new player in any given game, I hate it when I can just march straight into hellfire with my low level noob and defeat the Arbiter of Eternal Suffering with my rusty spatula and cardboard starter armor. It feels kind of pandering and vaguely insulting to know that the big bads are actually just babysitters meant to stroke my ego early on. I want scary places to spank my *** for wandering into them too early, not hold my hand and tell me I'm such a special little guy.

And as a veteran player, I like things to be meaty enough to feel on par with their aesthetic. If I'm breezing through the realm of fiery torment and bodily anguish like it was actually the realm of butterfly farts and puppy kisses then I'm just... bored & disappointed.

I'm not saying that the entire game should be built around veteran players or a hard level of difficulty, but there should be some kind of consistency with how daunting something looks and how challenging it actually is, I think. And more than that -- there's gotta be some kind of openly "you should get stronger to deal with this" kind of content out in the overworld to spur new players to want to level up in order to tackle greater challenges. I thought Dolmens, Geysers, Dragons, and Harrowstorms fit that role quite nicely.

If Portals come out as lava-filled daycare centers, I feel like it'll be a pretty big misstep and a departure from past game logic.



(I'm not meaning to target/refute your post in particular @ectoplasmicninja , I just liked the way you worded things!)

That would be fine if the portals were this lasting mechanic meant to span future chapters. The problem is that if the new portals are not “new player friendly”, then those new players will only actually get to use the portals at the “intended” gear level, when the community has largely moved on.

That’s the problem, these portals will have a similar shelf life as geysers, etc. But unlike geysers, dragons, they are not player friendly.

They require much more effort then anything earlier like the dragons, they have poor rewards, they are hard to find, and they are brutal for low level characters. If this was a thing uniquely designed for cp 300+ characters, and dropped gear that high end characters want, then fine, but it’s not the case.

Harrowstorms were criticized for being difficult with poor rewards, and only until they added the new motif, they became largely ignored.

The portals are even worse.

Now this might be a strategy for zos. Let the crowd do them for achievements, then when no one wants to do them, add something for players to farm. But as of now there is no evidence they are going to do this.

So the TLDR version of this is basically what is the portals purpose?
A challenge for challenge sake for advanced players?
Is it to tell a story that is not new player friendly?

Zos needs to get a white board, write a project statement explaining the game mechanic purpose for these portals, and figure this out.

Azurya

It was extremly boring so far on PTS, it has absolutly nothing in coming with the portals in the non-MMO-Oblivion!
And it is the same boring from whatever entrance you use.
all said, so I hope when it goes live we have some suprises, but to be honest, I do not think so.

GreenHere

BlueRaven wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I started a new level 1 character on PTS, did a bunch of quests to get to about level 14, no CP, summoned Bastian, and hopped into one of those portals. We died. A lot. I got to a point where it just didn't make sense to continue, and then I couldn't leave easily either. It might be the same old regular overland snoozefest for high end players, but the game is not built exclusively for high end players. Oblivion Gates are for sure not going to be a friendly experience for a new player. I'm not saying they need to change, I'm just saying - the first time a newbie stumbles into one of those, it is going to teach them the meaning of pain.

(emphasis mine)

I kind of like that, personally.

As a new player in any given game, I hate it when I can just march straight into hellfire with my low level noob and defeat the Arbiter of Eternal Suffering with my rusty spatula and cardboard starter armor. It feels kind of pandering and vaguely insulting to know that the big bads are actually just babysitters meant to stroke my ego early on. I want scary places to spank my *** for wandering into them too early, not hold my hand and tell me I'm such a special little guy.

And as a veteran player, I like things to be meaty enough to feel on par with their aesthetic. If I'm breezing through the realm of fiery torment and bodily anguish like it was actually the realm of butterfly farts and puppy kisses then I'm just... bored & disappointed.

I'm not saying that the entire game should be built around veteran players or a hard level of difficulty, but there should be some kind of consistency with how daunting something looks and how challenging it actually is, I think. And more than that -- there's gotta be some kind of openly "you should get stronger to deal with this" kind of content out in the overworld to spur new players to want to level up in order to tackle greater challenges. I thought Dolmens, Geysers, Dragons, and Harrowstorms fit that role quite nicely.

If Portals come out as lava-filled daycare centers, I feel like it'll be a pretty big misstep and a departure from past game logic.



(I'm not meaning to target/refute your post in particular @ectoplasmicninja , I just liked the way you worded things!)

That would be fine if the portals were this lasting mechanic meant to span future chapters. The problem is that if the new portals are not “new player friendly”, then those new players will only actually get to use the portals at the “intended” gear level, when the community has largely moved on.

That’s the problem, these portals will have a similar shelf life as geysers, etc. But unlike geysers, dragons, they are not player friendly.

They require much more effort then anything earlier like the dragons, they have poor rewards, they are hard to find, and they are brutal for low level characters. If this was a thing uniquely designed for cp 300+ characters, and dropped gear that high end characters want, then fine, but it’s not the case.

Harrowstorms were criticized for being difficult with poor rewards, and only until they added the new motif, they became largely ignored.

The portals are even worse.

Now this might be a strategy for zos. Let the crowd do them for achievements, then when no one wants to do them, add something for players to farm. But as of now there is no evidence they are going to do this.

So the TLDR version of this is basically what is the portals purpose?
A challenge for challenge sake for advanced players?
Is it to tell a story that is not new player friendly?

Zos needs to get a white board, write a project statement explaining the game mechanic purpose for these portals, and figure this out.

Thanks for clarifying, that helps me understand where you're coming from.

And I can dig it. It would indeed be nice if we had a clearer idea of who these are meant for. Right now they kind of feel like they're for everyone and no one. If new players aren't gonna be happy with them, and vet players already don't like them, then... oof.


In particular I liked your point in the OP about players potentially waiting at their entrance gate for some other players to help them out... totally unaware that others may be entering through different portals. It'd suck to be a newbie standing around waiting for help that'll never come. I think I'd prefer it if these Portal event areas were more linear as well; maybe with a few variants that are randomly chosen when the instance opens or something. Too late in the dev cycle for that kind of thing now, though.

Anyron

Tintaglia72 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I started a new level 1 character on PTS, did a bunch of quests to get to about level 14, no CP, summoned Bastian, and hopped into one of those portals. We died. A lot. I got to a point where it just didn't make sense to continue, and then I couldn't leave easily either. It might be the same old regular overland snoozefest for high end players, but the game is not built exclusively for high end players. Oblivion Gates are for sure not going to be a friendly experience for a new player. I'm not saying they need to change, I'm just saying - the first time a newbie stumbles into one of those, it is going to teach them the meaning of pain.

I still don't like how it is today.
Back when veteran ranks were thing game was much much better. Zones were scaled to levels and you just couldn't go there unless you did previous zones. There was order in it.

Now you can go anywhere to do anything and it just sucks. Game is so easy its not fun at all. Why should i level and upgrade gear for overland when there is no challenge at all?

It's quite simple, if you don't like the game, then leave and stop playing. The reason VET levels were removed was because the majority of the player base hated them. Not everyone is going to be happy all the time. Those players actually leave and find a game they do like and that is ok.

Easy to say "just leave" but after all those years in game it actually isnt really easy, but dont worry.. Every patch im closer

Cireous

tonyblack wrote: »

Not on pts so i can’t check, but are there even any reasons to do them? From what i read they drop generic trash and difficulty similar to public dungeon. If there is no daily quests for them with cool motif they’ll die in a month after release. Not because they difficult, but rather lack proper rewards.

Oblivion Portals drop the Deadland furnishing patterns and, maybe, a year from now , motifs. Much like Harrowstorms just recently began droping the Nighthollow motifs from both the Harrowstorm daily coffer and, occasionally, from the Harrowstorm itself (while also continuing to drop Vampiric furnishing patterns and the exclusive alchemy ingredient, Vile Coagulant). I'm sure the portals probably drop a unique alchemy ingredient or style material as well, I just don't remember what it is at the moment.

Cireous

Having done a number of Oblivion portals myself, here is where I would rank their difficulty level compared to other, similar, content:

Dolmens < Geysers < Oblivion Portals < Harrowstorms < Dragons

I am personally able to solo Oblivion Portals with my companion, with the intermediary bosses being pretty fun and a little challenging. The final boss takes forever, though, and is much more fun with another person joining in the fight. So, by no means will this content be too terribly difficult for most people, as it's very easy to at least duo. I personally appreciate this difficulty "middle ground" they seem to be striving for. Once the content dies out, I will enjoy having a challenging experience mostly soloing the Portals, something you can't really do with Harrowstorms or Dragons.

One thing that seems strange, though, at least on the PTS, is that once you kill the final boss, you can seemingly leave through a portal and then step right back through that portal, placing you at the beginning of the instance, and then you can do it all over again, repeatedly. I wonder, is this intended? I suppose this would allow everyone a chance at the final boss, whenever they make it there, given that he continually respawns, but do these portals EVER close behind you, ending the event for a period of time? The continual respawn of the boss seems a little weird to me.

Lugaldu

I was really hoping for nostalgia, that the gates would look like in TES IV Oblivion and that it would work exactly like there ... storm the tower, remove the sigil stone and back.

Ekzorka

BlueRaven wrote: »

Low level dds, tanks, and healers may patiently wait just inside the portals hoping for other to show up and help clear. While a group entering from a different portal clears the whole thing.

They can do it with any group content, even with a dolmens. Oblivion portals isn't the hardest group event in the game to be a non-soloable thing. I just tried it solo and can say that its difficulty is like a public dungeon and the last boss is like some worldbosses or Geyser bosses, so nothing is impossible.
It's normal if a new or low level players can't do some content alone, they have to rise or unite with someone for overall goal.

jwellsub17_ESO2

BlueRaven wrote: »

Remember, these are supposed to be the dragons, geysers, and harrow storms of this chapter. They are NOT the solo arena replacement. Is a level 12 with no cp supposed to just not participate with these portals? If not, then what are they for?

If zos were to implement a new solo arena that has a random entrance then whatever, new level 12’s are not who they are designed for.

So yesterday, I took a little L9 NB (No CP allocated except to get overland movement speed, mostly gear I picked up in the tutorial) into a portal on the PTS. Took in a companion, generic armor, but with a purple flame staff.

First island was not too bad until the last island boss, I ended dying once because I couldn't figure out the pattern of the fight and the second time because I wasn't paying attention to the boss changing when it re-spawned and changed the pattern on me.

Second island, I ding'd to 10 just after clearing the welcoming party. At this point most of my gear was L2 - L4 and they had all these shiny racks of weapons so I went ahead and upgraded my weapons. After finishing with the second party, I started to explore a bit and found that I could basically skip the entire island and went on to the third island.

While dealing with the welcoming party on the third island, I died again, and this time my companion did as well. There was some Monk-like spell caster that just did a tremendous amount of damage to my companion and then came after me. Second try I got past the welcoming party by going straight after the Monk-like spell caster and took it out first, then the trash mobs, then the other elites. After that I went a-wanderin again and found that I could skip all but the island boss.

I was unable to defeat the final boss and died 4 or 5 times before I decided to head back to Tamriel. I quickly learned that the regular mobs respawn, just like in delves and were a bit harder to skip on the way out. While I was on the second island, life called and I had to quit the game. I expected this would be handled like a dungeon or delve and I would come back in a couple hours to find myself in Tamriel... Nope, I was still in the portal, on the second island.

I tell all of this to point out that the L12 will be able to participate and, because of 'One Tamriel', they will find it as challenging as a dungeon with delve like respawns, but still doable. And they will provide just as much overall utility as they do on geysers, harrowstorms, and dragons.

Tommy_The_Gun

I had concerns too, but I went on PTS and done 3 - 5 of those portals solo. And this whole "Oblivion Portals" thing is basically "a public dungeon with random entrance." (also in terms of difficulty, I am not super good player with bis gear and I was able to complete it solo).

You can camp the boss and wait till it respaws, if someone has done the boss earlier. It is not like a group dungeon that collapse when it has been completed and you are ported out.

I was doing my part solo, but other side was done quicker because it had more people / group, so for example when I arrived at the final boss, it was already dead, but after 5 minutes it respawed so I was able to kill it solo and get the gear and achievement.

tonyblack

Cireous wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

Not on pts so i can’t check, but are there even any reasons to do them? From what i read they drop generic trash and difficulty similar to public dungeon. If there is no daily quests for them with cool motif they’ll die in a month after release. Not because they difficult, but rather lack proper rewards.

Oblivion Portals drop the Deadland furnishing patterns and, maybe, a year from now , motifs. Much like Harrowstorms just recently began droping the Nighthollow motifs from both the Harrowstorm daily coffer and, occasionally, from the Harrowstorm itself (while also continuing to drop Vampiric furnishing patterns and the exclusive alchemy ingredient, Vile Coagulant). I'm sure the portals probably drop a unique alchemy ingredient or style material as well, I just don't remember what it is at the moment.

That’s good to know, ty for insight. In that case there will be some incentive to farm them for some players at least.