Death Knell nerf is too harsh, should atleast be 5% instead of 4%

techprince

Title.

WrathOfInnos

5% would still be too low. IMO the correct number is 8%, but I could live with 7%. For most builds that’s still an 8-15% nerf to execute crit. Here is my post from the official feedback thread.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think that change to Necromancer’s passive Death Knell was excessive. I think most would agree that 10% crit chance per Grave Lord skill in the current meta is a little high (where crit chance is generally low and crit damage is higher than ever before). However, I believe that back when Necromancer was first introduced the passive seemed balanced (on magcro at least, stamcro was powerful for other reasons).

In 2019 Necro crit damage was typically around 105-110% (from Elfborn, Shadow, Maj/Min Force). These days we have more (EC, Brittle, Khajiit, Backstabber, Maj Force buff) with 150% crit damage reasonably achievable. This means that in terms of power, crit chance is roughly 40% more valuable now, and 10% of 2019 crit chance would be equal to 7% of 2021 crit chance.

Th calculation above is assuming Shadow Mundus. Maybe Thief is more common currently, in which case crit damage drops to ~132% and 10% crit chance from 2019 would be equal to 8% crit chance now.

So maybe 7-8% crit chance per Grave Lord would be fair? But 4% is too low. Keep in mind this passive is Necro’s only form of execute ability.

Another way to look at it is by comparing to Nightblade’s crit chance passive: 2% per Assassination ability. Since Death Knell only applies to 25% of the fight, it could give 8% crit during this window and still average out to the same 2% crit chance as Nightblade. This also seems like a fair way to balance the passive.

4% crit chance with 25% uptime only averages 1% crit chance per Grave Lord skill. This has hardly any impact, and really waters down one of the most valuable and unique things about Necromancer. It also will homogenize builds since there’s very little diminishing return on the new crit peak, so everyone will just stack 5-6 Grave Lord skills front bar (previously builds would use 3-5 GL front bar to optimize crit on both bars, and it was dependent on gear choices).

Anyway, I believe 7-8% crit chance per Grave Lord ability would be balanced, without being overpowered, and retain the feel of the class “execute”.

katorga

It should be simple, "with a gravelord ability slotted your critical hit chance is increased 12%"

That said, I don't think the nerf is warranted at all.

hackdrag0n

Don't think it will be moved this cycle. We get to test it for three months and then hopefully they'll buff it if necro is now underperforming on live.

grumpy_pants95

techprince wrote: »

Title.

I personally don't agree with it being too harsh. Necro gets more crit chance in execute phase than others. It's literally an extra bonus other's don't get. I think 10% was too much per skill considering it made a massive difference in how Necro performed overall in trials/dungeons compared to others; with that being said 4% i think it's only fair to balance the power Necromancer's hold.

Alsaroth

grumpy_pants95 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Title.

I personally don't agree with it being too harsh. Necro gets more crit chance in execute phase than others. It's literally an extra bonus other's don't get. I think 10% was too much per skill considering it made a massive difference in how Necro performed overall in trials/dungeons compared to others; with that being said 4% i think it's only fair to balance the power Necromancer's hold.

But wasn't that because magcro was lacking in execute abilities?

4% is harsh and I hope it won't go live, but if it does, meh; will still pull around 70% crit chance (when enemies are at or lower than 25% health).

grumpy_pants95

Alsaroth wrote: »

grumpy_pants95 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Title.

I personally don't agree with it being too harsh. Necro gets more crit chance in execute phase than others. It's literally an extra bonus other's don't get. I think 10% was too much per skill considering it made a massive difference in how Necro performed overall in trials/dungeons compared to others; with that being said 4% i think it's only fair to balance the power Necromancer's hold.

But wasn't that because magcro was lacking in execute abilities?

4% is harsh and I hope it won't go live, but if it does, meh; will still pull around 70% crit chance (when enemies are at or lower than 25% health).

Yeah the extra crit is because necros "lack" in execute abilities, however you didnt get my point. 4%/skill is still more than most get no matter execute abilities or not. Blastbones/skull and other skills can crit so much in execute phase that sometimes it can overperform a lot of execute abilities.

Alsaroth

Maybe you're right, although a 5% crit chance would be nicer. As long as I don't have to waste mundus choice or having to use the precise trait on my main weapon and still be over 60% crit, I'm ok.

grumpy_pants95

Alsaroth wrote: »

Maybe you're right, although a 5% crit chance would be nicer. As long as I don't have to waste mundus choice or having to use the precise trait on my main weapon and still be over 60% crit, I'm ok.

Alsaroth wrote: »

Maybe you're right, although a 5% crit chance would be nicer. As long as I don't have to waste mundus choice or having to use the precise trait on my main weapon and still be over 60% crit, I'm ok.

I mean 1% wont make or break your build tbh. I don't think choosing different mundus stones or playing with your traits is a waste.. The only reason why things are getting changes is so we use a diversity of different sets/traits/combination of skills, etc rather than whatever is deemed "meta" or a "must" by the "end game" community.

Stevie6

I would like to see the devs work from the other end for once. Look at it from a lowbie / casual player perspective and make adjustments from there. Put together some overland purple gear without any crit added, no rotations, no la weaving, and see what the base damage is doing to all types of targets including bosses. This will be on a character based on lvl 50 cp160.

The devs will probably see magicka classes are low on damage while stam base damage is higher. If the devs want to raise the floor, then make the base spell and stam damage the same...10k. So players without a rotation, bad internet connections, etc can at least hit 20k to 30k dps consistently by hitting a couple of keys. Even after four years of playing a magesorc, I still hit between 7k to 11k soloing vet 1 dungeons. My stamcro hits a lot higher soloing vet 1 dungeons 15k to 38k. Big difference.....

It might help players wanting to do group dungeons that need a base dps of 20k or so. Get the lowbie moving thru content. Ofc, game mechanics will always kill them..heh.

YandereGirlfriend

grumpy_pants95 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Title.

I personally don't agree with it being too harsh. Necro gets more crit chance in execute phase than others. It's literally an extra bonus other's don't get. I think 10% was too much per skill considering it made a massive difference in how Necro performed overall in trials/dungeons compared to others; with that being said 4% i think it's only fair to balance the power Necromancer's hold.

The problem is that the gutted the signature passive of the class while instead retaining the many random "toss-in" stats that Necromancers truly could stand to do without.

What I mean: 3% damage done on Mystic Siphon - why is this here? - toss it. 1500 free Penetration for having a pet - bin it. Random 15% DoT damage when DKs are meant as the DoT class - junk it.

You do those things (which, incidentally, do not harm class identity at all) so that you can keep the best passive intact.