Top 5 reasons to add a trial finder.

Selminus

1. The vast majority of guilds with all of this appealing advertising have borderline empty trial schedules because they're either maxed out, bored or don't feel like teaching. Have joined 4 in a row now. Same story every time. Half of them never even make it to the Discord approval chats and people just come and go after seeing what I see. This is precisely why carry selling is so rampant which is an entirely different topic that I think we can all agree hurts the game.

2. It would make Puglorn much more efficient.

3. People bridging from normal to veteran can actually get into groups and learn without some bozo that needs 6000 addons to play dictating everything they wear in advance and wanting to see logs of previous fights that you never got to learn because of any of the fore or after mentioned reasons. It's like a bar that won't train bartenders or take applicants without experience. Normal trial experience does not prepare you very well at all for vet in ESO and certainly won't get you into a *good* guild, usually. There needs to be a bridge here.

4. You can introduce queue requirements with it like WoW has had for years, eliminating the faketank plague for once and for all while simultaneously making this viable. Just some simple stuff to keep the idiots out - max HP, sets equipped, skills on bar. Yes, I know, you all saw some clownsorc faketank a vet once. Nobody is impressed and that's not efficiency or good gameplay, keep it in the normal dungeons where frankly half of them drop if they join a normal DLC. We waited 20 minutes and went thru 3 16k-18k sorcerers last week in nMHK because they faketank qeue in then drop when they see what the instance is. This tortures thousands of players daily and wastes a lot of time. It's really hurting your customer base more than you realize.

5. You are further distancing players in a game already badly hurt by the social and identity factors that come with allowing a player to join 5 guilds by adding companions. This can help offset that.

You guys gotta bring people together and some of your innovation, while enjoyable, has been pushing them apart. It's called an MMO for a reason and it's a great one. But ESO suffers worse here than I have seen in 2 decades of gaming. A trial finder addresses a myriad of issues at once. People will know what they are getting into as well. There will be some bad, bad pugs in a trial finder but the good would heavily outweigh the bad and the incoming companions are without a doubt going to just further separate people that are in 5 guilds and paid for Godslayer that morning. Turn this thing around with a glorious pug finder.

Thx.

AlnilamE

Fake tanks would be the last of my worries in a trial finder.

Now, let's say ZOS will do this. What's the role split?

Specific for every trial? (1-2-9 for Craglorn, for example, but 2-2-8 for MoL, SS, KA, etc?)
Same split for every trial (so 2-2-8 for all trials no matter if you need an off-tank or not?)

Seminolegirl1992

This would be an amazing idea. It seems most guilds are suffering trial wise. My trial guild only runs teams now, no more random opens. It's sad. I think a trial finder may increase participation and establish more connections.

As for @AlnilamE question- perhaps the role split could be an option when using a trial finder. Or a player can simply switch to the role that is needed. The only issue is if rewards are made a part of that, they miss out due to switching.

kargen27

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

This would be an amazing idea. It seems most guilds are suffering trial wise. My trial guild only runs teams now, no more random opens. It's sad. I think a trial finder may increase participation and establish more connections.

As for @AlnilamE question- perhaps the role split could be an option when using a trial finder. Or a player can simply switch to the role that is needed. The only issue is if rewards are made a part of that, they miss out due to switching.

I kicked around the idea of a chat channel for trials that can be seen in all zones. It would need to be mostly automated though so players couldn't spam items they are selling or guilds they want us to join. Basically a player would start a trial and get a drop menu. The player would then pick how many of each role they need and if doing vet could maybe put in a CP requirement. After done a message would be generated in chat saying a trial group has started looking something like 'Cloudrest normal starting 1 tank 2 heal 8 DPS needed'. Players would right click (or whatever on console) on their role and be added to the group.
This way we wouldn't need to hang out in Craglorn to find a group, the group leader could choose the team make-up and the channel wouldn't be plagued with spam. First come first served. Still could be a problem with fake roles.

trackdemon5512

TOP REASON NOT TO:

You already complain about fake tanks and healer and people running ahead in basic dungeons. Imagine that on a gigantic scale with frustration mounting. Now imagine that only one person has the power to remove a person. Now imagine the activity finder getting involved. Now imagine several other players are just as trashy, ignoring mechanics, playing music in chat, not following mechanics.

Yeah no thanks.

NyassaV

I'm gonna say no, cuz there are no Item levels in ESO. In Warcraft LFR works because the gear level is lower. Also Some of the biggest story moment happen in raids in wow but in ESO they can often be forgettable.

Xuhora

also locking skills on the tank or healer role is not the way to go since its curcial to slot different skills for different bosses. and i dont think they can code it so, that only certain skills have to be slotted. where do you start with mandatory skills (ransack, defensive posture, heroic strike) and then what?
as nyassaV said, there are no itemlevels to indicate playerskills, and CP certainly dont do that.

As i have said many times, i will repeat myself: with the implementation of the LFR tool ZOS would need to make sure that there is a certain clearrate, otherwise costumer satisfaction goes down rapidly. this will lead to nerf (or further nerf) existing trials, while also making newer trials easier by default.

Ceejengine

NyassaV wrote: »

I'm gonna say no, cuz there are no Item levels in ESO. In Warcraft LFR works because the gear level is lower. Also Some of the biggest story moment happen in raids in wow but in ESO they can often be forgettable.

Except normal ESO trial difficulty = LFR raid difficulty already.

It feels to me like we're already at the point where a LFT should've been in the game for 3 years and now this post is actually about how the LFG system needs to introduce group composition preferences.

Its the same thing with account wide achieves or stable. EVERYTHING else related to that stuff is account wide, why not just get it done?

Same with LFT. We're already at the difficulty point where LFT + LFT norm / vet randoms make sense.

And before we hear the "Buhbuhbuh vet trials are hard so no to the whole system"

Vet dungeons are hard and we still have random norm / vet dungeons.

Wolfchild07

I'm gonna say yes, cause you don't have to use it if you don't want to use it. Alot more casuals would get alot more trials done.
Normal can just require 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage roles. It won't matter. People will have gear they can swap if only 1 tank and healer is actually needed. Elitists arguing against normal trial group finder is ridiculous but also hilarious.

colossalvoids

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Elitists arguing against normal trial group finder is ridiculous but also hilarious.

The thing is that those "elitists" want more people to tackle endgame stuff in the end and to do that there should be some social engagement at least (guilds, crag pugging etc.) But trial finder done as a mirror of a dungeon one isn't going to cut it. I don't think there are a lot of people saying "damn, after those random normals with no tank and heals kicking me cause I'm not 810cp I really wanna go further and get better!" and trial finder would be exactly like those dungeons for them. Especially with no role checks and different trials needing different compositions not mentioning other obvious problems.

It could be done right, but I rarely see any good proposals and have zero faith on an actually good implementation. Personally I'd like some separate multi-zone channel for getting groups or some tool with forum-like structure where you create a composition and people apply to it via check boxes etc., could go further and add achievements checks for vet/HM for a farming groups so it would suit every possible need out there, as at least half the people i know doesn't raid anymore but would join for some quick fun vmol or vashm with experienced people if there's an opportunity.

Amottica

1. One game I played in, for a different game, had little going on for raiding. My friend and I wanted to raid. We decided to be the solution and started forming our own raids and before long we were clearing all raids in the game. It is a much better way than using the GF or plugging. And yes, we also plugged so we knew how bad that was. Even in games that had had raids as part of their GF they were often a rough ride unless it was a guild group that just needed one or two more players.

4. A couple of weeks ago I had seen another player post in a "fake tank" thread that the only requirement the game can set for a tank is requiring having a taunt slotted but Zos cannot do anything to require them to actually use it. This is not WoW. Even in the few short months, I have been here I can clearly see that what defines a tank and how they hold agro are very different than here than in WoW.

I take no issue with a trial GF. I am just pointing out it is not a great idea and much better to have players forming groups themselves from their guilds.

JTD

Don't worry ESO trial communities and guilds aren't in guilds or anything. They're in discords. ESO needs discord integration.

On a more serious note:

A custom group finder would be nice. A system where you can set the size. content, some other paramaters and description and can list this. At that point people can 'apply' with a textbox/role and you can accept or deny and fill a group for all kinds of content. Not only trials. This would make zonechat more efficient (hopefully).

Jeremy

They should have added trials and arenas to the activity finder years ago.

Gythral

5 reasons not too

Toxic ...
2x Fake Tank
2x Fake Healer

(way too many fake DPS)...

Eso101rus

No, seriously bad idea. If you want to run a trial with randoms shout out what you need in your guilds or zone. Joining a trials guild for beginners, or progression group might be a good suggestion. LFG trials will not help people with no trial experience, it would not benefit those at end game either. It would be intended as a casual experience which I’m almost certain would attract elements which would not work when thrown together.

PigofSteel

Bring back for normal trials...

Tsar_Gekkou

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

I'm gonna say yes, cause you don't have to use it if you don't want to use it. Alot more casuals would get alot more trials done.
Normal can just require 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage roles. It won't matter. People will have gear they can swap if only 1 tank and healer is actually needed. Elitists arguing against normal trial group finder is ridiculous but also hilarious.

Lol, "elitists" aren't the ones arguing against it since they make their own groups with other good players anyway. It's the average players who are against it: they don't have enough of a pool of good players to ensure smooth runs without people trolling, fake queueing, or just holding down 1 button the entire trial. You don't see elitists pugging from zone chat, so why would they even care about a group finder that's basically the same thing?

jm42

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

TOP REASON NOT TO:

You already complain about fake tanks and healer and people running ahead in basic dungeons. Imagine that on a gigantic scale with frustration mounting. Now imagine that only one person has the power to remove a person. Now imagine the activity finder getting involved. Now imagine several other players are just as trashy, ignoring mechanics, playing music in chat, not following mechanics.

Yeah no thanks.

that's just a reason for you to not use AF for trials, not the reason to not introduse it in game at all

Tommy_The_Gun

I think that trial finder could potentially help with DPS queue times in activity finder.

josiahva

Gythral wrote: »

5 reasons not too

Toxic ...
2x Fake Tank
2x Fake Healer

(way too many fake DPS)...

sigh...this old reason again? really? Why do you feel other people shouldn't have the opportunity to use a trial finder? So, you are afraid of fake tanks and fake healers, or fake DPS, good for you. You don't have to use it. I use group finder all the time for vet DLC dungeons(call me a filthy casual) I am not afraid of less-than-optimal group configurations. I am also not afraid to kick someone who is simply not performing the role they signed up for. I would say its pretty fair to compare a normal trial in difficulty to a non-HM vet DLC dungeon(at least the weak DLCs they have been coming out with lately). I am able to complete pugged vet DLC dungeons about 95% of the time(as a tank) that 5% I can't manage it is almost always vLoM these days which has certain actual DPS checks...if you can't hit the minimum you just can't make it past the stranglers, nothing I can do about that(or very little).

You are correct though that 12-man groups are toxic. Can you imagine the hate whispers people fake-tanking are going to get if they sign up for a trial they can't tank? Someone might try it once....but the first time they cause a group wipe and are subsequently kicked, they will get hate whispered to death and are unlikely to try again.

Yes, there will be people who are sub-par at their roles. There is no way around that...but that isn't a reason to deny other people the option to run nightmare pug trials if they want to. To be honest, I enjoy group content MORE when things go wrong and I have to adapt on the fly than when everything is smooth sailing. If I wanted smooth sailing I would parse on a trial dummy all day long.

OK, so how about this as a compromise? Limit the trial finder to Craglorn trials only to start with. Those are easy enough that there shouldn't be any reason NOT to have a trial finder for them. Then say after a trial gets to be a year or so old, add it to the trial finder as you go. That way there is plenty of time for hardcore progression groups to get all the achievements they want before the filthy casuals can "ruin" it.

mobicera

Do the people who want this trial finder actually think zos is capable of implementing this?
I mean the group finder barely functions as is as only contains 4 people, and let's be honest look at zos track record. What are the chances of this actually functioning?
My opinion 0 they can't even fix a damn game breaking ui bug on console.

Parasaurolophus

One reason why not:

1) In 99% of cases, trials will not be completed.

Rich Lambert spoke about this in an interview. Unfortunately, I cannot tell now which one.

UGotBenched91

For all the people saying no because fake tanks, fake healers, pug issues and toxicity....just continue playing with your guild mates and none of these problems impact you.

Not all of us have the flexibility of time to schedule a time to play with Guild mates. Some of us only have 1-2 hours a day (unplanned) and it would be nice to be able to get into trials without sitting around shouting for them. Would you experience issues with pugs. Of course you would but the players queuing under stand this.if you don’t want these issues then continue playing with your guild groups and having a trial que doesn’t impact your experience .


If anyone replies to these thoughts please @me as this forum is strange and I will have no way of knowing you replied if you just copy and paste.

Tommy_The_Gun

BrownChicken wrote: »

One reason why not:

1) In 99% of cases, trials will not be completed.

Rich Lambert spoke about this in an interview. Unfortunately, I cannot tell now which one.

As far as I can tell, question about trial group finder was asked on ESO live stream and basically they keep thinking about it, but they have problems with regular 4-man group finder as it tends to bug-out, so once they will have a reliable group finder for basic 4-man dungeons, they will start adding support for more content.

So basically - the issue seems to be purely technical and it is only a matter of time.
But what is really weird is that group arenas don't have a group finder support... and those are also 4-man content.

Ippokrates

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

BrownChicken wrote: »

One reason why not:

1) In 99% of cases, trials will not be completed.

Rich Lambert spoke about this in an interview. Unfortunately, I cannot tell now which one.

As far as I can tell, question about trial group finder was asked on ESO live stream and basically they keep thinking about it, but they have problems with regular 4-man group finder as it tends to bug-out, so once they will have a reliable group finder for basic 4-man dungeons, they will start adding support for more content.

So basically - the issue seems to be purely technical and it is only a matter of time.
But what is really weird is that group arenas don't have a group finder support... and those are also 4-man content.

Sometimes I have three attempts to get to random dung and people just quiting without the reason or word... So i am bit sceptic to the idea of 12 mates pugs ^^


But idea of arenas is great so also I do not know why they didn't implemented it till now.

jlmurra2

Trial finder seems as if it would have been an obvious addition to the game at launch.

tonyblack

Why people keep bringing fake tanks and fake healers into this? The main reason players queue fake roles is because of random normal rewards and the fact that most normal dungeons so easy group won’t notice if you fake or not. I simply cant see the reason why would anyone queue fake role for trial if no extra rewards involved.

Nowa133

I tried to do a practice run (No achievement required) in craglorn yesterday for vSS. Surprisingly, i got a lot of veterans willingly to help newcomers, but after 9 wipes at the ice dragon, people started leaving the party (the tank---the one at the dragon--wasn't working) Instructions were given on discord and with a better tank we could perhaps make it. It was a fun and learning experience, maybe not so much for the veterans, but it was for the newcomers. If there was more people willingly to create such groups, we would have better players and with access to endgame trial gear. Otherwise, we need a trial finder.

Agalloch

We had one..but was removed.

GDave1

Back in WoW after they introduced trialfinder i had the Feeling no one Talks to each other anymore. I think with raiderIO community became even more toxic.

Having to write 5 Letters with other Individuals and making a common schedule is half the RPG Feeling.

You think the fellowship of the Ring just got drafted out of nowhere? They spent alot of time together before they went out to *** lotrs molag Baal!

My 2 Cents

Nowa133

Agalloch wrote: »

We had one..but was removed.

I've heard about that... That's sad.