Are monster sets worth using anymore?

Larcomar

I know in trial stuff the meta has long been two separate crit pieces. But for everyday use, I've found monster helms reasonably effective and above all fun. And it lends itself to some cool builds eg elfbane + grothdar on my mag dk, selenes on my beary warden, maW on my pet sorc.

Looking at update 30 though, it now looks like they've now raised the spell / wpn damage requirement even further - "Sets that use Weapon and Spell Damage now require 6574 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 5478."

I can't conceive of getting anywhere near 5500 yet alone 6500 spell damage on my mag toons. The mag dk's probably trogging along at 3500 when BSW pops. No clue where my other mag toons are at, but I'd guess similar or lower - they're generally running stuff like MS, medusa. Stam toons maybe better off but that's still alot of wpm dmg.

Are monster helms now dead? - I'm assuming the reduction is vaguely linear? - ie if your spell dmg is 1/2 the new requirement, is the damage 1/2?

Given proc sets almost certainly are - they're fun in rnds but never scaled well in vet content anyway - are we all supposed to just stack crit now and forget anything else?

Everstorm

Monster sets got hit hard with the introduction of mythics, this change will probably be the final nail in the coffin. And once again PvE gets screwed over because of PvP.

PigofSteel

Monster sets are not worth anymore imo. Maybe 1 or 2 sets that is. Else is just niche or role play.

Larcomar

That's what I feared. Was hoping, but.... So basically, they're letting pvp'rs use monster helms and proc sets again in cyrodiil. But nerfing them across the board to the point of uselessness. So now we're all limited to like 19 sets. Or at least, one's that don't have fun effects. I guess my Ilambris - OS - Thunderbug shock sorc's dead too Another toon running Julianos / MS / Medusa.... How interesting....... Were the sets with effects really causing that much server stress that they got to get rid of them?

biminirwb17_ESO

We have 12 slots, we have 1,2,3 and 5 piece "sets".

The days of 2, 5 piece and a monster set may be going but with some thought on ZoS' side it could add a new dimension to build variety. Not holding my breath though.

Septimus_Magna

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

We have 12 slots, we have 1,2,3 and 5 piece "sets".

The days of 2, 5 piece and a monster set may be going but with some thought on ZoS' side it could add a new dimension to build variety. Not holding my breath though.

It would be pretty cool if there were 4 piece sets, with weaker 4pc bonus than the standard 5pc bonus ofc.
There are some 3pc sets so its not outside the realm of possibility.

You could use 3x 4pc or 5pc+4pc+2pc+mythic.

Asardes

For magicka probably not since you have low multipliers for spell damage. It would have been more balanced to scale damage just like ultimate abilities and some skills, on either spall power (spell damage + maximum magicka/10.5) or weapon power (weapon damage + maximum stamina/10.5). And in PvP you can stack plenty of weapon damage even when reducing your main resource, so this kind of scaling would make sense if they were really trying to nerf proc sets in PvP.

Sneaky-Snurr

I think I have reading comprehension difficulty. May someone please tell me about this WD/SD requirement? I may very well have missed something.

Septimus_Magna

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I think I have reading comprehension difficulty. May someone please tell me about this WD/SD requirement? I may very well have missed something.

From PTS patch notes 7.0.2:

General

Made the following adjustments to item set scaling:

• Sets that use Weapon and Spell Damage now require 6574 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 5478, resulting in approximately a 17% reduction.
• Sets that use Magicka or Stamina now require 39,901 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 4% reduction.
• Sets that use Health now require 43,968 to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 13% reduction.
• Sets that use Physical or Spell Resistance now require 30,680 of either, up from 27,890, resulting in approximately a 9% reduction.

SidraWillowsky

Next patch most will be useless on magicka DDs; the spell power values necessary to reach even *close* to their damage numbers on live are pretty much impossible to achieve.

Kiss your Skoria/Zaan/Grothdarr goodbye now; ZOS killed them.

Larcomar

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I think I have reading comprehension difficulty. May someone please tell me about this WD/SD requirement? I may very well have missed something.

From PTS patch notes 7.0.2:

General

Made the following adjustments to item set scaling:

• Sets that use Weapon and Spell Damage now require 6574 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 5478, resulting in approximately a 17% reduction.
• Sets that use Magicka or Stamina now require 39,901 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 4% reduction.
• Sets that use Health now require 43,968 to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 13% reduction.
• Sets that use Physical or Spell Resistance now require 30,680 of either, up from 27,890, resulting in approximately a 9% reduction.

I shd have probably cut and pasted it. Apologies. Worth having the list of monster sets too - while the health requirements sounds doable for a tank, and the max magicka requirement are certainly achievable, the vast maj scale off spell damage. Which, even if you were stacking it, looks unachievable:

Monster Masks
The following sets now scale off of your Weapon or Spell Damage, whichever is higher:
Domihaus' damage
Grothdarr's damage
Iceheart's damage
Ilambris' damage
Kjalnar's Nightmare's damage
Kra'gh's damage
Maw of the Infernal's damage
Nerien'eth's damage
Selene's damage
Sellistrix's damage
Spawn of Mephala's damage
Stone Husk's damage
Stormfist's damage
Valkyn Skoria's damage
Velidreth's damage
Zaan's damage

The following sets now scale off of your Max Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher:
Chokethorn's heal
Earthgore's heal
Nightflame's heal

The following sets now scale off your Max Health:
Lady Thorn's damage
Scourge Harvester's damage
Shadowrend's damage
Thurvokun's damage

The following set now scales off of your Physical or Spell Resistance, whichever is higher:
Tremorscale's damage

Septimus_Magna

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Next patch most will be useless on magicka DDs; the spell power values necessary to reach even *close* to their damage numbers on live are pretty much impossible to achieve.

Kiss your Skoria/Zaan/Grothdarr goodbye now; ZOS killed them.

Most players will probably use one of the new Mythics so its not such a problem to trade in a monster set.

SidraWillowsky

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Next patch most will be useless on magicka DDs; the spell power values necessary to reach even *close* to their damage numbers on live are pretty much impossible to achieve.

Kiss your Skoria/Zaan/Grothdarr goodbye now; ZOS killed them.

Most players will probably use one of the new Mythics so its not such a problem to trade in a monster set.

They will, but

1. That's going to get nerfed into the ground just like the Stranglers did; I can already feel it, and
2. The monster set procs are so fun I *want* to wear them, but the DPS is going to be too low to be useful.

Ippokrates

Larcomar wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I think I have reading comprehension difficulty. May someone please tell me about this WD/SD requirement? I may very well have missed something.

From PTS patch notes 7.0.2:

General

Made the following adjustments to item set scaling:

• Sets that use Weapon and Spell Damage now require 6574 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 5478, resulting in approximately a 17% reduction.
• Sets that use Magicka or Stamina now require 39,901 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 4% reduction.
• Sets that use Health now require 43,968 to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 13% reduction.
• Sets that use Physical or Spell Resistance now require 30,680 of either, up from 27,890, resulting in approximately a 9% reduction.

I shd have probably cut and pasted it. Apologies. Worth having the list of monster sets too - while the health requirements sounds doable for a tank, and the max magicka requirement are certainly achievable, the vast maj scale off spell damage. Which, even if you were stacking it, looks unachievable:

Monster Masks
The following sets now scale off of your Weapon or Spell Damage, whichever is higher:
Domihaus' damage
Grothdarr's damage
Iceheart's damage
Ilambris' damage
Kjalnar's Nightmare's damage
Kra'gh's damage
Maw of the Infernal's damage
Nerien'eth's damage
Selene's damage
Sellistrix's damage
Spawn of Mephala's damage
Stone Husk's damage
Stormfist's damage
Valkyn Skoria's damage
Velidreth's damage
Zaan's damage

The following sets now scale off of your Max Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher:
Chokethorn's heal
Earthgore's heal
Nightflame's heal

The following sets now scale off your Max Health:
Lady Thorn's damage
Scourge Harvester's damage
Shadowrend's damage
Thurvokun's damage

The following set now scales off of your Physical or Spell Resistance, whichever is higher:
Tremorscale's damage

I am no expert on magicka, cause I always prefer stamina chars, but with increased base dmg from dual/2h weapons, bonus from medium armour & bonus from fighters guild, stamina chars will reach those values far easier than magicka?

Sneaky-Snurr

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I think I have reading comprehension difficulty. May someone please tell me about this WD/SD requirement? I may very well have missed something.

From PTS patch notes 7.0.2:

General

Made the following adjustments to item set scaling:

• Sets that use Weapon and Spell Damage now require 6574 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 5478, resulting in approximately a 17% reduction.
• Sets that use Magicka or Stamina now require 39,901 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 4% reduction.
• Sets that use Health now require 43,968 to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 13% reduction.
• Sets that use Physical or Spell Resistance now require 30,680 of either, up from 27,890, resulting in approximately a 9% reduction.

Thank you. Have this insightful.

Varana

The new Mythics will be nerfed after a few cycles just like Thrassian & Co. but the monster sets will stay sh... until the next major overhaul in 1d6+2 years.

Septimus_Magna

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Next patch most will be useless on magicka DDs; the spell power values necessary to reach even *close* to their damage numbers on live are pretty much impossible to achieve.

Kiss your Skoria/Zaan/Grothdarr goodbye now; ZOS killed them.

Most players will probably use one of the new Mythics so its not such a problem to trade in a monster set.

They will, but

1. That's going to get nerfed into the ground just like the Stranglers did; I can already feel it, and
2. The monster set procs are so fun I *want* to wear them, but the DPS is going to be too low to be useful.

Yes, I agree. New strong mythics are most likely getting nerfed once everyone farmed them.

Only viable magicka proc set for DPS is probably Zaan (strong 1pc effect plus strong proc) if you use a high spell dmg set like Siroria. Sets like Maw will be very much effected by the nerf, the 1pc bonus is not great so a weaker 2pc effect will just make is useless (tanks will be happy though).

jssriot

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Next patch most will be useless on magicka DDs; the spell power values necessary to reach even *close* to their damage numbers on live are pretty much impossible to achieve.

Kiss your Skoria/Zaan/Grothdarr goodbye now; ZOS killed them.

Most players will probably use one of the new Mythics so its not such a problem to trade in a monster set.

Mythics are part of antiquities, and aside from being a time-consuming, mental health-draining pain to acquire, are still pay-walled behind Greymoor. So it is kind P2W-ish and that sucks. Granted, ESO has been sliding down the P2W slippery slope for a while now but hey.

BlueRaven

jssriot wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Next patch most will be useless on magicka DDs; the spell power values necessary to reach even *close* to their damage numbers on live are pretty much impossible to achieve.

Kiss your Skoria/Zaan/Grothdarr goodbye now; ZOS killed them.

Most players will probably use one of the new Mythics so its not such a problem to trade in a monster set.

Mythics are part of antiquities, and aside from being a time-consuming, mental health-draining pain to acquire, are still pay-walled behind Greymoor. So it is kind P2W-ish and that sucks. Granted, ESO has been sliding down the P2W slippery slope for a while now but hey.

Doesn’t Greymoor become part of the base game when Blackwood comes out?

I always buy the new chapter, so I am not sure exactly how this works.

Ramber

I dont know why anyone would not want to use a monster set. Aside from them just being awesome, the damage you get from them along with the single stat is more then what you would get from another stat piece that just got nerfed. 1 extra crit piece often results in less damage unless you over crit where the damage from the monster set is about 3k self buffed.

Radiance

WTF are they doing just butchering everything. Im still not over the CP attack and now this BS.

DreadDaedroth

Look at what devs did to Maarselok monster set

Varana

BlueRaven wrote: »

jssriot wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Next patch most will be useless on magicka DDs; the spell power values necessary to reach even *close* to their damage numbers on live are pretty much impossible to achieve.

Kiss your Skoria/Zaan/Grothdarr goodbye now; ZOS killed them.

Most players will probably use one of the new Mythics so its not such a problem to trade in a monster set.

Mythics are part of antiquities, and aside from being a time-consuming, mental health-draining pain to acquire, are still pay-walled behind Greymoor. So it is kind P2W-ish and that sucks. Granted, ESO has been sliding down the P2W slippery slope for a while now but hey.

Doesn’t Greymoor become part of the base game when Blackwood comes out?

I always buy the new chapter, so I am not sure exactly how this works.

It becomes a DLC, so players with ESO+ will automatically get it. But not base-game.

Larcomar

Radiance wrote: »

WTF are they doing just butchering everything. Im still not over the CP attack and now this BS.

Oh, don't get me started on what they're doing to CP. But apparently, we asked for it

Larcomar

[

[/quote]

I am no expert on magicka, cause I always prefer stamina chars, but with increased base dmg from dual/2h weapons, bonus from medium armour & bonus from fighters guild, stamina chars will reach those values far easier than magicka?[/quote]

True - stam users will get more out of magika monster sets than magika users now. But I'm not sure stam users will be able to use proc sets any better. I mean, you'd have to wear hundings + NMA or something to get enough wpn dmg to the point its worth using them.....

Goregrinder

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I think I have reading comprehension difficulty. May someone please tell me about this WD/SD requirement? I may very well have missed something.

From PTS patch notes 7.0.2:

General

Made the following adjustments to item set scaling:

• Sets that use Weapon and Spell Damage now require 6574 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 5478, resulting in approximately a 17% reduction.
• Sets that use Magicka or Stamina now require 39,901 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 4% reduction.
• Sets that use Health now require 43,968 to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 13% reduction.
• Sets that use Physical or Spell Resistance now require 30,680 of either, up from 27,890, resulting in approximately a 9% reduction.

Looks like ZOS saw the builds people were making on PTS, and finally adjusted proc sets like crimson. This is a good change, glad they're being proactive about this.

Gythral

Larcomar wrote: »

Radiance wrote: »

WTF are they doing just butchering everything. Im still not over the CP attack and now this BS.

Oh, don't get me started on what they're doing to CP. But apparently, we asked for it

Not sure 'we'' asked them to lower the floor & everything else, but I guess that's what we get!

Azurya

Larcomar wrote: »

Are monster helms now dead? - I'm assuming the reduction is vaguely linear? - ie if your spell dmg is 1/2 the new requirement, is the damage 1/2?

I used 2 different pieces since along time, because I always felt better doing so. Not relying on a possibiliety but wanting stats that hold. What use is a proc when it comes to late or to early. Nah, not my thing, but the 1 piece stats are oft very usefull, for me at least.

Jacozilla

jssriot wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Next patch most will be useless on magicka DDs; the spell power values necessary to reach even *close* to their damage numbers on live are pretty much impossible to achieve.

Kiss your Skoria/Zaan/Grothdarr goodbye now; ZOS killed them.

Most players will probably use one of the new Mythics so its not such a problem to trade in a monster set.

Mythics are part of antiquities, and aside from being a time-consuming, mental health-draining pain to acquire, are still pay-walled behind Greymoor. So it is kind P2W-ish and that sucks. Granted, ESO has been sliding down the P2W slippery slope for a while now but hey.

Gear acquired from new content is P2W now? Paraphrasing a line from Princess Bride, I don’t think that means what you think it means.

furiouslog

It's probably going to end up crit/crit for PVE and Domihaus/pen for PVP. Who even cares anymore. Class imbalance is a much bigger issue. Most proc sets were only ever good for cheesy OP PVP builds or for comedy value in PVE. They can nerf them into the ground as far as I'm concerned.

virtus753

Ippokrates wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I think I have reading comprehension difficulty. May someone please tell me about this WD/SD requirement? I may very well have missed something.

From PTS patch notes 7.0.2:

General

Made the following adjustments to item set scaling:

• Sets that use Weapon and Spell Damage now require 6574 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 5478, resulting in approximately a 17% reduction.
• Sets that use Magicka or Stamina now require 39,901 of either in order to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 4% reduction.
• Sets that use Health now require 43,968 to reach their original values, up from 38,350, resulting in approximately a 13% reduction.
• Sets that use Physical or Spell Resistance now require 30,680 of either, up from 27,890, resulting in approximately a 9% reduction.

I shd have probably cut and pasted it. Apologies. Worth having the list of monster sets too - while the health requirements sounds doable for a tank, and the max magicka requirement are certainly achievable, the vast maj scale off spell damage. Which, even if you were stacking it, looks unachievable:

Monster Masks
The following sets now scale off of your Weapon or Spell Damage, whichever is higher:
Domihaus' damage
Grothdarr's damage
Iceheart's damage
Ilambris' damage
Kjalnar's Nightmare's damage
Kra'gh's damage
Maw of the Infernal's damage
Nerien'eth's damage
Selene's damage
Sellistrix's damage
Spawn of Mephala's damage
Stone Husk's damage
Stormfist's damage
Valkyn Skoria's damage
Velidreth's damage
Zaan's damage

The following sets now scale off of your Max Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher:
Chokethorn's heal
Earthgore's heal
Nightflame's heal

The following sets now scale off your Max Health:
Lady Thorn's damage
Scourge Harvester's damage
Shadowrend's damage
Thurvokun's damage

The following set now scales off of your Physical or Spell Resistance, whichever is higher:
Tremorscale's damage

I am no expert on magicka, cause I always prefer stamina chars, but with increased base dmg from dual/2h weapons, bonus from medium armour & bonus from fighters guild, stamina chars will reach those values far easier than magicka?

But magicka get advantages over all stam in the area of penetration and over melee stam with their range. (There's a reason a bow is the same base damage as a staff, not a 2-handed melee weapon.)