2 Problems with Companions

HackTheMinotaur

TLDW:

1. Companion gear needs an upgrade and/or transmute option. The loot pool is too large when you consider any piece/trait/weight can drop from anything in the game with no way to narrow your farm session down to certain pieces.

2. Companion gear should have a separate inventory cap, not count towards player inventory. Again, too many pieces/traits to collect.

I’m sure this has been considered and possibly cut for time but I would recommend some solution get pushed out for Blackwood otherwise Companions will not be as well received as they could be otherwise.

https://youtu.be/-5EDA7ZN4PQ

xgoku1

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

TLDW:

1. Companion gear needs an upgrade and/or transmute option. The loot pool is too large when you consider any piece/trait/weight can drop from anything in the game with no way to narrow your farm session down to certain pieces.

2. Companion gear should have a separate inventory cap, not count towards player inventory. Again, too many pieces/traits to collect.

I’m sure this has been considered and possibly cut for time but I would recommend some solution get pushed out for Blackwood otherwise Companions will not be as well received as they could be otherwise.

https://youtu.be/-5EDA7ZN4PQ

I watch your content for solo builds, been following your Companion videos; gotta say you're more... positive than most here, regarding companions.

There's some really good feedback in the Feedback thread for Companions, unfortunately after 4 weeks no feedback was addressed, in fact (probably as a direct response to your Healer build video?) they nerfed companion effectiveness.

I really want to believe that companions will be improved before launch, but I honestly expect this system going to Live as is, and end up becoming dead-on-arrival content that noone bothers with.

Since they don't listen to feedback here, perhaps you could feature some of the opinions from the PTS thread in a video? The Devs seem to only care about content creator/class rep voice (why even ask for forum feedback, idk)

BlueRaven

@HackTheMinotaur Just also wanted to add you have a great channel! Keep up the great work!

Ashtaris

i will probably get the companions and level them up, but I’m not going to grind the gear. If it drops, it drops but this whole system looks like a major girndfest and I’m not interested. If the companions prove to be worthless, then I’ll just stuff them back into my collection.

phaneub17_ESO

I don't want to see Companion gear upgradeable with tempers to be honest, it would make gearing them up too easy with just the right drops and takes away from trying to get better gear. It also creates a varying power degree between each player's Companion, you pick and choose whether to keep the modifier or the power increase.

Companion bag though would be nice, I like to take it one step further and make it unlock a piece a gear instead of acquiring it. Meaning if you picked up a Leather Helm with Quickened at Superior Quality, it unlocks like the stickerbook allowing you to give it to each Companion, you don't have to pick it up again nor will you see it drop again as you already collected it. It would get rid of excess baggage of having duplicates of the same item and they can do away with the vendor cost.

KeiRaikon

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I don't want to see Companion gear upgradeable with tempers to be honest, it would make gearing them up too easy with just the right drops and takes away from trying to get better gear.

I feel like the grind to get the correct piece in the correct weight with the correct trait is already hard enough without having to also add in how incredibly rare purple gear is. I mean people have report only getting 1 or 2 pieces of purple gear naturally in all the PTS so far.

DarcyMardin

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

TLDW:

1. Companion gear needs an upgrade and/or transmute option. The loot pool is too large when you consider any piece/trait/weight can drop from anything in the game with no way to narrow your farm session down to certain pieces.

2. Companion gear should have a separate inventory cap, not count towards player inventory. Again, too many pieces/traits to collect.

I’m sure this has been considered and possibly cut for time but I would recommend some solution get pushed out for Blackwood otherwise Companions will not be as well received as they could be otherwise.

https://youtu.be/-5EDA7ZN4PQ

After doing quite a bit of testing on the PTS, I heartily agree with this — the gear grind for companions is disheartening and frustrating. I also find it annoying, as a grand master crafter, that I cannot craft gear for my companions. Even if that meant investing the time to research all the new traits for their gear, that would be a preferable grind to the rare-drop-bad-RNG dance that’s on the PTS now.

Being able to transmute their gear would improve things greatly (although that inherently implies crafters learning those new traits).

I, too, enjoy your videos, Hack, and appreciate your insights.

crazepdx

KeiRaikon wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I don't want to see Companion gear upgradeable with tempers to be honest, it would make gearing them up too easy with just the right drops and takes away from trying to get better gear.

I feel like the grind to get the correct piece in the correct weight with the correct trait is already hard enough without having to also add in how incredibly rare purple gear is. I mean people have report only getting 1 or 2 pieces of purple gear naturally in all the PTS so far.

As the system is right now, it will make the power imbalance between players worse then if they use tempers. As it is now, the pieces are tradeable/ sellable like overland gear. That means the players who have lots of gold will be able to buy the pieces they want, and newer or players without alot of gold will have to grind for the pieces. With guides already up suing how to equip the companions the prices in guild traders will be ridiculous.

HackTheMinotaur

crazepdx wrote: »

As the system is right now, it will make the power imbalance between players worse then if they use tempers. As it is now, the pieces are tradeable/ sellable like overland gear. That means the players who have lots of gold will be able to buy the pieces they want, and newer or players without alot of gold will have to grind for the pieces. With guides already up suing how to equip the companions the prices in guild traders will be ridiculous.

The market for purple quality pieces in the best traits will be insane. Easily up to half a mil per piece for things like Quickened and Aggressive. Especially weapons! Good luck!

stefj68

their is only like 2 traits worth for item like 7 useless
their is 1334 different pieces of gear... using main character inventory/bank/chest is totally crazy
been saying since day one on pts [maybe a special bags like tradeskills for subcribers]

but they don't listen

ADarklore

Let's put all this into perspective and realize that ZOS doesn't do things without an ulterior motive. Remember WHO these companions are designed for and their purpose... they are designed for solo players who want a companion to quest with, but do not want to play with other people. ZOS also designed the companions to be a LONG-TERM investment, not a 'combat pet', which seems to be how a lot of people are treating them. They plan to add romance options, etc... down the road, this means they don't want players to see them as something you just summon from time to time, but are treated as actual 'companions'.

I believe this is why they started them with range weapons... as they want players to have to build them up over a long period of time... gradually being able to move them into more melee options. So for the players basically saying, "If I cannot get instant gratification I'm not using them"... ZOS is pretty much saying, 'Then don't, because they're not intended for players like you.'

Linaleah

ADarklore wrote: »

Let's put all this into perspective and realize that ZOS doesn't do things without an ulterior motive. Remember WHO these companions are designed for and their purpose... they are designed for solo players who want a companion to quest with, but do not want to play with other people. ZOS also designed the companions to be a LONG-TERM investment, not a 'combat pet', which seems to be how a lot of people are treating them. They plan to add romance options, etc... down the road, this means they don't want players to see them as something you just summon from time to time, but are treated as actual 'companions'.

I believe this is why they started them with range weapons... as they want players to have to build them up over a long period of time... gradually being able to move them into more melee options. So for the players basically saying, "If I cannot get instant gratification I'm not using them"... ZOS is pretty much saying, 'Then don't, because they're not intended for players like you.'

except... as a player that these companions seem to be intended for... pulling them out from time to time/using them as house guests is pretty much what I'm going to end up doing unless something changes. /shrug. (and by something I mean both the concerns brought up by Hack and the fact that they don't really seem to be at all helpful, unless you are good enough player to not need them in a first place, oh and how fiddly their rapport is - making it very awkward trying to raise it when its all too easy to accidentally drop it)

xgoku1

ADarklore wrote: »

Let's put all this into perspective and realize that ZOS doesn't do things without an ulterior motive. Remember WHO these companions are designed for and their purpose... they are designed for solo players who want a companion to quest with, but do not want to play with other people. ZOS also designed the companions to be a LONG-TERM investment, not a 'combat pet', which seems to be how a lot of people are treating them. They plan to add romance options, etc... down the road, this means they don't want players to see them as something you just summon from time to time, but are treated as actual 'companions'.

I believe this is why they started them with range weapons... as they want players to have to build them up over a long period of time... gradually being able to move them into more melee options. So for the players basically saying, "If I cannot get instant gratification I'm not using them"... ZOS is pretty much saying, 'Then don't, because they're not intended for players like you.'

It doesn't have to be binary choice though. They can be both RP friendly and functional, I don't know why we have to resort to "you're just playing it wrong".

Besides this whole approach feels really condescending to the so-called "casual", they probably benefit the most from this being buffed to a competent level of functionality

Not sure what you mean by ranged focus. You can slot them with a stamina weapon and they will fight like a brawler.

crazepdx

ADarklore wrote: »

Let's put all this into perspective and realize that ZOS doesn't do things without an ulterior motive. Remember WHO these companions are designed for and their purpose... they are designed for solo players who want a companion to quest with, but do not want to play with other people. ZOS also designed the companions to be a LONG-TERM investment, not a 'combat pet', which seems to be how a lot of people are treating them. They plan to add romance options, etc... down the road, this means they don't want players to see them as something you just summon from time to time, but are treated as actual 'companions'.

I get it, I'm that kind of player. I spend 90% of my time solo, I was stoked when they announced them. Personally I could care less about how they hold up in battle, although truth be told I was disappointed there, the role play and having a companion to quest with was more exciting. Except these two problems aren't minor inconveniences they are major problems. I've started companions as a level 1 and did the guild quests and farmed gear without the template. It's horrible.

Let's do some perspective Hack said he found about a 20% drop rate for gear from bosses, my experience was less then that but let's go big and say half the bosses drop gear from them
There are 3 armor types, .50 drop rate, 11 slots, 10 traits, and 3 levels of gear= 1 in 1980 chance per slot for trait and quality you want.

Let's compare
Maelstrom arena has 17 weapon styles, with 9 possible traits and a guaranteed drop of one from the box for a 1 in 153 chance to get the weapon you want in the trait. That drop rate and the other drop rates from trials and dungeons caused so much dissatisfaction that we now have the ability to reconstruct and change traits because the rng is horrible.

Unless I miss my math you have a 10x worse problem with companion gear. And that is with a 50% drop rate, which it is currently no where near. And you can only get companion gear to drop when you are using your companion. The lower the drop rate the greater that problem becomes exponentially.

Then add on the amount of gear space you have to set aside in order to make sure you have a trait in case things get changed and it has made inventory management impossible which is the problem they were supposed to be trying fix with the sticker book.

ADarklore wrote: »

I believe this is why they started them with range weapons... as they want players to have to build them up over a long period of time... gradually being able to move them into more melee options. So for the players basically saying, "If I cannot get instant gratification I'm not using them"... ZOS is pretty much saying, 'Then don't, because they're not intended for players like you.'

The issue is, if these problems aren't fixed why would someone want to make the long term investment? Expecially when that investment is huge with very little gain and a lot of inconvenience involved?

VaranisArano

I'd be a lot happier with the gear grind for Companion gear if ZOS did something similar to player gear and gave specific locations. Like: jewelry drops from dolmens, weapons drop from bosses, etc.

Instead it seems very arbitrary and a reversion to the pre-transmutation days of farming player gear. ZOS knows this is a less-than-ideal design. In fact, they've increasingly steered the process of player gear farming away from arbitrary drops and endless farming, even with overland gear. That ZOS seems to be returning to this model for Companions is...questionable.

Belegnole

As far as I'm concerned right now companions are DOA, and I play solo a lot. As they stand they are a catastrophic failure, a hindrance and a detriment to solo play.

Gylzyn

I group up for dungeons with guild players and random players but I was looking forward to Companions enabling me to do more group activities solo to give me flexibility of when and how to play. An example might be when I want to grind a dungeon for a particular item (e.g. Arx for an inferno staff). Which in itself is enough of a grind.

Adding additional grind for Companions (e.g. rapport, gear) from completely random locations to end up with something that isn't much more than a dress-up buddy has completely put me off this next update. Their combat abilities are poor. The inventory management looks awful. Another example of ZOS adding something (freeing up inventory management through the Sticker Book system) and then taking away (Companion gear storage). This give then take, or take then give approach by ZOS is frustrating.

All of the nerfs (e.g. CP, proc sets, stats) and other potential new grinds (e.g. Companions, Endeavours) coming with this next update leaves me unmotivated to play.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out with the general player base when this goes live and there is a realisation that Companions are not what ZOS has marketed them to be.

Kesstryl

ADarklore wrote: »

Let's put all this into perspective and realize that ZOS doesn't do things without an ulterior motive. Remember WHO these companions are designed for and their purpose... they are designed for solo players who want a companion to quest with, but do not want to play with other people. ZOS also designed the companions to be a LONG-TERM investment, not a 'combat pet', which seems to be how a lot of people are treating them. They plan to add romance options, etc... down the road, this means they don't want players to see them as something you just summon from time to time, but are treated as actual 'companions'.

I believe this is why they started them with range weapons... as they want players to have to build them up over a long period of time... gradually being able to move them into more melee options. So for the players basically saying, "If I cannot get instant gratification I'm not using them"... ZOS is pretty much saying, 'Then don't, because they're not intended for players like you.'

None of my characters are going to want to romance someone who can't hold their own in battle and take dirt naps while I do all the work for them. My chars would want someone who can contribute to the relationship, not leech off of it, LOL. I mean I even have to carry their gear for them, what a cheap date! That means the long grind for specific gear pieces that are viable will make my companions take dirt naps pretty much all the time. As it is, they don't seem to grow much as you invest in them, and are pretty weak even when maxed out unless you use specific builds and specific positioning, and slot a heal so you can attempt to keep them alive. This makes them pretty much useless at all levels, especially for new players and solo players. This whole thing needs more work

doesurmindglow

I tend to agree; I think companions having separate gear sets with their own inventory and grind is probably going to render them effectively too much trouble on live.

If they were hugely beneficial in a way that would justify it, you might see more players excited about the system, I don't know. But I think the pain of so much additional inventory for so little benefit is probably going to do them in. I guess we'll see.

I really like the idea of companions being able to run player gear. I don't know if their performance demands somehow prohibit that.

cyberjanet

ZOS may fix this later (hey, they gave us houseguests after several years of asking!!) but it won't be fixed by launch date. So, I'm just skipping this chapter for now. I am not interested in grinding armour for companions. I would like to be able to craft it, and I have no problem whatsoever having to learn the traits first. But me and RNG have never been good friends, and being unable to equip my companions - however much I like the companions - is a showstopper for me.

I do think it will eventually be fixed or some compromise will be made. I get the impression housing materials drop more frequently now, and they did all that stuff with giving you jewellery upgrade grains as part of writ rewards. But just as those took a couple of years to get a nod, so will the companion gear.

They have made up their minds how to do it and will not change now.

ajkb78

Bear in mind companion gear is tradeable. So while you might only rarely find the perfect purple quickened helm you are looking for, fairly shortly hundreds of them will be available in guild stores, expensive at first and fairly quickly quite cheaply. It might be an inconvenience in the short term but white quality companion gear will be purchasable from merchants and you can upgrade as and when you find gear either in the wild or in a guild trader.

Companions have quite a few issues to fix before they're fit for use at all in my opinion, but availability of gear isn't high on my list of key problems.

jlmurra2

Thank you for posting this informative video. I did not know companions do not have their own inventory. It seems they are more trouble than they are worth in the current state.

Torobravo

Great post. Great video. Thanks for making this information known and your testing efforts!

Chaquinho89

I'm sure they'll fix these problems in a year or two, they might even put the solution inside ESO Plus or the Crown store.. lol

BalticBlues

ajkb78 wrote: »

Bear in mind companion gear is tradeable. So while you might only rarely find the perfect purple quickened helm you are looking for, fairly shortly hundreds of them will be available in guild stores, expensive at first and fairly quickly quite cheaply.

And then? Where shall we store companion stuff that might become useful later?
If companions cannot carry their stuff, I will not ruin my inventory with it.

I can understand that companions probably NEED primitive gear to avoid a server overload.
I cannot understand why ZOS gives us no companion inventory and so creates an inventory overload?

Xebov

ADarklore wrote: »

Let's put all this into perspective and realize that ZOS doesn't do things without an ulterior motive. Remember WHO these companions are designed for and their purpose... they are designed for solo players who want a companion to quest with, but do not want to play with other people. ZOS also designed the companions to be a LONG-TERM investment, not a 'combat pet', which seems to be how a lot of people are treating them. They plan to add romance options, etc... down the road, this means they don't want players to see them as something you just summon from time to time, but are treated as actual 'companions'.

I believe this is why they started them with range weapons... as they want players to have to build them up over a long period of time... gradually being able to move them into more melee options. So for the players basically saying, "If I cannot get instant gratification I'm not using them"... ZOS is pretty much saying, 'Then don't, because they're not intended for players like you.'

Comapgions are useless even for the group you mention.

The gear does not follow or incorporate any gear mechanics in the game. Its not reliably available through certain means. It cannot be upgraded or crafted, or transmuted or printed. So most players will never be able to remotely gear them. The random lootpool for them is ~30x the lootpool of a dungeon end boss.

They require alot of efford to level. Its likely that you leveled your character way beyond them.

They dont bring much performance to the table. Whatever they do they are heavily underperforming and barely any help.

We are not talking about instant gratification here. The efford you have to put into them heavily outwights the gain you get from them. For a player that just wants a travel compagnion the performance is barely worth it and the efford is way to big. For a player that wanted a combat bot the efford is ok, but the performance is simply way to low.

I tested them out on PTS. My expectation was that i finally get a propper DD addition so i dont have to constantly maintain a DD spec on my tank. The efford they need is so high that its easier (and cheaper) for me to keep the DD spec and just use them as a healer knowing they will spend 90% of the time dead.

crazepdx

ajkb78 wrote: »

Bear in mind companion gear is tradeable. So while you might only rarely find the perfect purple quickened helm you are looking for, fairly shortly hundreds of them will be available in guild stores, expensive at first and fairly quickly quite cheaply. It might be an inconvenience in the short term but white quality companion gear will be purchasable from merchants and you can upgrade as and when you find gear either in the wild or in a guild trader.

When do higher demand bottlenecked (rare drop) items become cheaper on guild traders? Even with sticker books and transmute crystals, there are weapon types and some player gears that still go for 200k+ on guild traders in the right trait. Not even golded out.

NoxiousBlight

ajkb78 wrote: »

Bear in mind companion gear is tradeable. So while you might only rarely find the perfect purple quickened helm you are looking for, fairly shortly hundreds of them will be available in guild stores, expensive at first and fairly quickly quite cheaply. It might be an inconvenience in the short term but white quality companion gear will be purchasable from merchants and you can upgrade as and when you find gear either in the wild or in a guild trader.

Companions have quite a few issues to fix before they're fit for use at all in my opinion, but availability of gear isn't high on my list of key problems.

My guess is purple quickened/aggressive and heavy bolstered will be selling for 100-200k a piece even a year from now. The stuff is seriously ultra rare. Purple rings and necklaces will probably be 300-500k for quite some time.

Ramber

yay we get all the lag that comes along with them too so that good

honey_badger82

All I can say is I am out when this update hits. I will poke my head into the forums in August to see if any of this U30 debacle is fixed. I did not and am not purchasing blackwood until they make the game playable again.
I really was looking forward to companions but the grind is real... and I am beyond tired of the grind. I have been grinding CP since 2.0 dropped only to find out it was a useless effort, they are nerfing it and I will now be left with CP to spend on "horizontal" progression stars I will NEVER need or use. I refuse to grind all things companions only for them to "fix" it later to what it should be upon release.

Jayroo

Never thought I'd say this... but I'm going to try to refund the preorder
really sad they chose to throw out another useless overland with no difficulty, a crappy gimmick that pretty much sounds throw away and nothing else but a tria and garbage proc nerfsl.

ffxiv is getting another expansion with an entire new world being added for farming/homesteading ontop of the base expansion they already do. Why cant eso just release QUALITY content that makes a difference?!!? Combat in this game is so incredibly outdated and its been this way without any significant change for several YEARS.... its sad and pathetic really especially looking at black desert combat considering that game came out in 2014.