PTS Companion Performance Testing - May 14

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi everyone,

We wanted to give you a heads up that we'll be performing some testing on the PTS for Companions performance today. Starting in a few minutes, we'll be disabling all Companions in cities; you won't see any player Companions or your own while in a city, and when you approach a city with a Companion out, it will simply despawn automatically. Once you leave the city, your Companion should simply return on their own.

We'll let you know when we're finished and have reenabled Companions in cities. Thanks in advance!

RaddlemanNumber7

I went to Velyn Harbour with a character that has not completed any of the quests to liberate it. Mirri was unsummoned inside that city and not available to fight at my character's side. The same was also true of Haven, Dune and Arenthia.

I ported into Leyawiin Wayshrine with Mirri. Mirri did not appear, but there was no message about her being unsummoned.

I ported from Grand Psijic Villa to Elden Root wayshrine and got the message that Mirri was unsummoned. When I ported from Elden Root Temple wayshrine into Elden Root wayshrine I did not get the message that Mirri was unsummoned.

Standing on Wayrest Wayshrine caused Mirri to reappear. She was unsummoned when I stepped away from the wayshrine.

Mirri was available to be modified in the outfit station dialogue inside both Leyawiin and Wayrest despite her being unsummoned.

ZOS_GinaBruno

We just completed our testing and have reactivated Companions in cities.

And thank you @RaddlemanNumber7 for providing your write-up!

Rex-Umbra

Please do this for Sorc Pets too

redlink1979

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Please do this for Sorc Pets too

And warden's bears.

VaranisArano

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Please do this for Sorc Pets too

Please don't.

Did you read that list of quest cities RaddlemanNumber7 tested where Companions said "Nope, I'm not helping you! Go tackle those enemies on your own"?

That's not the full list, of course. Starter cities like Daggerfall and Vulkhel Guard have combat quests. Major Cities like Vivec City have combat quests.

So, no, please don't take away the Sorc Pets I've been able to use during those quests in cities. Or the Warden Pets. Unlike Necromancers, those classes were designed with the full use of their skills in cities. This would be a massive nerf of those classes for any player who's still questing in those cities. New players and questing Alts playing Wardens and Sorcs would be negatively effected.

There are better ways to address the Pets blocking crafting stations issue. Turn off collision. Make the Twilights able to land. Let the bear lie down and nap. Make it more obvious how to dismiss pets, etc.

None of those require nerfing core combat skills of Sorcs and the Warden bear ultimate, by making that unable to be used in cities instead of fixing the problem.


Its also going to be a massive downgrade in Companion usefulness too, if ZOS got results that indicate they need to despawn Companions in cities. They can't fight alongside you in combat quests in cities. They can't roleplay with you in major and minor quest hubs. It basically relegates Companions from "Companions will arrive with the upcoming Blackwood Chapter in June, but once unlocked, you’ll be able to take them to almost every corner of Tamriel" to "Actually, you'll only be able to use your Companions in the wilderness and to fill out your group in group content. Sorry about that."

If it's truly necessary to hamstring Companions before they're even launched to preserve performance, so be it. I don't imagine that either players or ZOS are going to be happy with how things turned out.

Alphawolf01A

I think the best option would be to "hide" other players pets (combat and non) and companions. Except in PVP where combat pets need to be seen.

Awhile back, they made many abilities only visible to the player and not others around unless the ability has a synergy. If the pets and companions are hidden. it's less for the game to have to handle. Especially in open world.

Maybe a "show only grouped player companions" for instances like 4 man dungeons and trials since they fill a slot.

Tommy_The_Gun

VaranisArano wrote: »

Please don't.

Well, I have no problems with seeing other player's combat pets.

But...

I have problems when I have to pixel-hunt a spot where I can actually "click" on a banker, merchant or crafting station, because there is a pet sorc nearby or a warden with bear. Technically that also used to happen with WW's pets, but you don't see WWs in cities any more (because it is now considered a crime).

Why ZOS treats other player's combat pets as something interact-able (when it is not interact-able) for other random players that are not even is same group is beyond weird and I would even call it stupid...

Simple solution would be simply to "hide" (not de-spawn) pets when a player that summoned them interacts with banker / merchant / crafting station etc.

Eiagra

Hiding combat summons would be a blessing. Sometimes there are so many flapping wings it gets a bit dizzying. Maybe they should only be visible during active combat.

colossalvoids

We absolutely need an option to hide other people's pets and summons while we not grouped with them. Same for companions, obviously. I do not want to see all those Mirri's and Bastian's at every corner killing any performance left, there's zero need for that especially on a "(another) performance year".

SantieClaws

Just a thought yes.

If companions do need to automatically despawn in heavily populated areas how does this affect their experience and achievements?

For example this one gets a fair bit of her xp from crafting quests.

If the crafting area is busy and Bastion runs away then he will not learn anything from the tasks completed when he is gone no?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

agegarton

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Please do this for Sorc Pets too

Please don't.

Did you read that list of quest cities RaddlemanNumber7 tested where Companions said "Nope, I'm not helping you! Go tackle those enemies on your own"?

That's not the full list, of course. Starter cities like Daggerfall and Vulkhel Guard have combat quests. Major Cities like Vivec City have combat quests.

So, no, please don't take away the Sorc Pets I've been able to use during those quests in cities. Or the Warden Pets. Unlike Necromancers, those classes were designed with the full use of their skills in cities. This would be a massive nerf of those classes for any player who's still questing in those cities. New players and questing Alts playing Wardens and Sorcs would be negatively effected.

There are better ways to address the Pets blocking crafting stations issue. Turn off collision. Make the Twilights able to land. Let the bear lie down and nap. Make it more obvious how to dismiss pets, etc.

None of those require nerfing core combat skills of Sorcs and the Warden bear ultimate, by making that unable to be used in cities instead of fixing the problem.


Its also going to be a massive downgrade in Companion usefulness too, if ZOS got results that indicate they need to despawn Companions in cities. They can't fight alongside you in combat quests in cities. They can't roleplay with you in major and minor quest hubs. It basically relegates Companions from "Companions will arrive with the upcoming Blackwood Chapter in June, but once unlocked, you’ll be able to take them to almost every corner of Tamriel" to "Actually, you'll only be able to use your Companions in the wilderness and to fill out your group in group content. Sorry about that."

If it's truly necessary to hamstring Companions before they're even launched to preserve performance, so be it. I don't imagine that either players or ZOS are going to be happy with how things turned out.

I generally agree with you - pets (combat or otherwise) should have behaviour that corresponds to their environment. Your examples of having the bear go a take a nap, or having the Twilight land somewhere, are all great.

But I am curious - and I've played more hours than I'm prepared to admit on in writing in case my wife ever sees this - what quests require any significant combat within a city? The only quests I can think of are in specific zones within a city boundary (i.e. not actually "in the city" but in an instanced house, castle, etc.). An example might be in Daggerfall castle as part of the main quest for Daggerfall. There's no reason combat pets cannot be permitted in these specific areas - they are (mostly) individually instanced anyway, from memory.

HumbleThaumaturge

So if Companions de-spawn in Cities, would that mean that they (the Companion) would not get XP when player turns-in Quests in a city?

ectoplasmicninja

SantieClaws wrote: »

If the crafting area is busy and Bastion runs away then he will not learn anything from the tasks completed when he is gone no?

Unfortunately companions only gain their XP from combat and not from quests. However, you raise a good point given that Mirri apparently gains approval from you crafting alcoholic beverages and Bastian approves of you reading books - and there are of course many provisioning stations and bookshelves in cities. So perhaps not experience, but it may matter for approval.

Will companions that are technically summoned but not spawned in cities still gain approval from your actions while in them?

Lauranae

I am sorry but if the servers are not able to handle companions, then ZOS should not have even implemented them into the game.
I can understand that some of you do not like already companions and unsumonning them would be for you the perfect solution, but if they do that, i do not see any purpose of having a companion and outfit him if he has to remain hidden most of the time even less why giving him some kind of like/like not when in fact you transform them in bot to kill.

Actually i do not even understand the meaning of having a companion in ESO if i can not be with the companion when i want and where i want. (not speaking of pvp area)

ESO sold me Blackwood on the companions tease, and their first twitch showing and explaining how it will work.
If companions are now unsumoned almost all the time then we have a problem. (Not in town, not in house (being an assistant statue is not beeing a companion in house) so they just fight from time to time if they like you.

There is another game with companions (even more companions that we wished lol) and their servers handle them easily. Though the game is way older than ESO. May be go visit and while i do not expect nore wish ESO to become same, companions there are working

VaranisArano

agegarton wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Please do this for Sorc Pets too

Please don't.

Did you read that list of quest cities RaddlemanNumber7 tested where Companions said "Nope, I'm not helping you! Go tackle those enemies on your own"?

That's not the full list, of course. Starter cities like Daggerfall and Vulkhel Guard have combat quests. Major Cities like Vivec City have combat quests.

So, no, please don't take away the Sorc Pets I've been able to use during those quests in cities. Or the Warden Pets. Unlike Necromancers, those classes were designed with the full use of their skills in cities. This would be a massive nerf of those classes for any player who's still questing in those cities. New players and questing Alts playing Wardens and Sorcs would be negatively effected.

There are better ways to address the Pets blocking crafting stations issue. Turn off collision. Make the Twilights able to land. Let the bear lie down and nap. Make it more obvious how to dismiss pets, etc.

None of those require nerfing core combat skills of Sorcs and the Warden bear ultimate, by making that unable to be used in cities instead of fixing the problem.


Its also going to be a massive downgrade in Companion usefulness too, if ZOS got results that indicate they need to despawn Companions in cities. They can't fight alongside you in combat quests in cities. They can't roleplay with you in major and minor quest hubs. It basically relegates Companions from "Companions will arrive with the upcoming Blackwood Chapter in June, but once unlocked, you’ll be able to take them to almost every corner of Tamriel" to "Actually, you'll only be able to use your Companions in the wilderness and to fill out your group in group content. Sorry about that."

If it's truly necessary to hamstring Companions before they're even launched to preserve performance, so be it. I don't imagine that either players or ZOS are going to be happy with how things turned out.

I generally agree with you - pets (combat or otherwise) should have behaviour that corresponds to their environment. Your examples of having the bear go a take a nap, or having the Twilight land somewhere, are all great.

But I am curious - and I've played more hours than I'm prepared to admit on in writing in case my wife ever sees this - what quests require any significant combat within a city? The only quests I can think of are in specific zones within a city boundary (i.e. not actually "in the city" but in an instanced house, castle, etc.). An example might be in Daggerfall castle as part of the main quest for Daggerfall. There's no reason combat pets cannot be permitted in these specific areas - they are (mostly) individually instanced anyway, from memory.

As listed in the post I referenced, ZOS includes the combat instances of Velyn Harbor, Dune, Haven, and Arenthia as "cities" where Comoanions are disabled. All of which are occupied by enemies until you drive them out. Those are very much areas that require "significant combat." While I didn't test it, I suspect that Hallin's Stand, Camlorn, Silvenar, Northpoint, Firsthold, Tava's Blessing, and possibly Elinhir all fall into the same category. Then someone turns around and suggests that Sorc and Warden Pets should be despawned in cities? No thank you!


My problem with "but what quests have significant combat" is that I feel like that's gatekeeping. I could say: "Oh, I had no problem with the werewolf in Daggerfall or the assassins who jump me on the way to the Castle, so no one else should ever need their sorc pets in Daggerfall." It's a starter city with some non-instanced combat quests.

I don't think we get to speak for all players, especially not when Sorcs were designed to have their pets available at all times and for all quests. No matter how "easy."

Additionally, combat can happen while doing Justice System content or while dueling. Unlike Necros, Sorcs and Wardens were designed with the full use of their skills at all times - to change this now would be a nerf to those classes.

I don't know if anyone tested if Companions are available in instances like Daggerfall Castle or the inn in the middle of the city. If so, it becomes a little more forgiving combat wise, but also very annoying to have to summon your pets when you enter an instance. Or for a new player who doesn't know the quest and is taken by surprise, to summon your pets at the beginning of combat.

Side note: I run random normals on my pet-Sorc tank. Twilight Matriarch and Volatile Familiar. I tried desummoning them while I waited for my queue at the Undaunted camp but quickly found that by the time I'd summon them in the dungeon, more often than not someone would already head off and then I'm playing catch-up as the tank. It doesn't take much time, but it takes long enough. So I started keeping them summoned and just hanging out in a corner where the flappy wings weren't in the way. Seriously, ZOS, if the Twilight could land, it would be amazing.


Suffice to say that if ZOS wants to despawn Companions in cities, they need to reevaluate what counts as a city.

And when it comes to solving the annoyances of Sorc and Warden Pets, ZOS has a lot more options for how to deal with it than nerfing those classes. They were designed to have their pets available for all quests and all combat, no matter how "easy" you or I may think it is.

VaranisArano

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

If the crafting area is busy and Bastion runs away then he will not learn anything from the tasks completed when he is gone no?

Unfortunately companions only gain their XP from combat and not from quests. However, you raise a good point given that Mirri apparently gains approval from you crafting alcoholic beverages and Bastian approves of you reading books - and there are of course many provisioning stations and bookshelves in cities. So perhaps not experience, but it may matter for approval.

Will companions that are technically summoned but not spawned in cities still gain approval from your actions while in them?

Don't Companions require us to do Fighters and Mages Guild dailies, which are turned in at the guild halls in the capitol cities?

There seem to be a lot of edge cases that would need testing if this is the direction ZOS decides they have to go to preserve their performance gains.

ADarklore

VaranisArano wrote: »

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

If the crafting area is busy and Bastion runs away then he will not learn anything from the tasks completed when he is gone no?

Unfortunately companions only gain their XP from combat and not from quests. However, you raise a good point given that Mirri apparently gains approval from you crafting alcoholic beverages and Bastian approves of you reading books - and there are of course many provisioning stations and bookshelves in cities. So perhaps not experience, but it may matter for approval.

Will companions that are technically summoned but not spawned in cities still gain approval from your actions while in them?

Don't Companions require us to do Fighters and Mages Guild dailies, which are turned in at the guild halls in the capitol cities?

There seem to be a lot of edge cases that would need testing if this is the direction ZOS decides they have to go to preserve their performance gains.

I'm curious about the bolded as well. Because GUILD quests need to be accepted and turned in at the guild halls in capitol cities and your companion only gets credit if they're summoned when you turn in the quest!!

ADarklore

Personally, why don't they just make it so players can have their companions/pets summoned, but are invisible to other players? Seems like this would help alleviate the problem of performance.

Lauranae

ADarklore wrote: »

Personally, why don't they just make it so players can have their companions/pets summoned, but are invisible to other players? Seems like this would help alleviate the problem of performance.

Why ZOS simply upgrade their hardware, may be that would more accurate rather than downing down more and more a game over the years

They keep removing stuff, buffs, visual, procs, downing abilities at first so PVP could get well and please that portion of player, then as PVE was wrongly downed by this, they balanced again, and again, and now because their server can not handle a lot of population, they remove all around again, going to sell us months ago a new pack with companions and now totally downing this feature.

But they never downed the duels in town, i wonder why

May be its time that ZOS stop to listen to the one side of the community and try to please both and stop to lowering the game to something with no interest ever

ADarklore

Lauranae wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Personally, why don't they just make it so players can have their companions/pets summoned, but are invisible to other players? Seems like this would help alleviate the problem of performance.

Why ZOS simply upgrade their hardware, may be that would more accurate rather than downing down more and more a game over the years

They keep removing stuff, buffs, visual, procs, downing abilities at first so PVP could get well and please that portion of player, then as PVE was wrongly downed by this, they balanced again, and again, and now because their server can not handle a lot of population, they remove all around again, going to sell us months ago a new pack with companions and now totally downing this feature.

But they never downed the duels in town, i wonder why

May be its time that ZOS stop to listen to the one side of the community and try to please both and stop to lowering the game to something with no interest ever

Well, in all honesty, I think a large portion, if not the majority of players would be OK with not seeing everyone else's pets and especially companions because who wants to see 50+ Mirris or Bastians running around at the same time?!?

But I do agree that it sucks things get taken away or nerfed... they have a serious problem with performance but because the game is built on an out-dated system, they cannot just upgrade it without re-writing the entire game from the ground up. So, they are trying to make do with what they have- which means sometimes having to take away options in order to preserve performance. I mean, there was no way they could expect or really even test for the number of players who are playing the game right now, so they always be behind the curve because of their limited options.

VaranisArano

ADarklore wrote: »

Personally, why don't they just make it so players can have their companions/pets summoned, but are invisible to other players? Seems like this would help alleviate the problem of performance.

This was one of the cases ZOS was going to test, in addition to the test this thread is concerned with.

Lauranae

VaranisArano wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Personally, why don't they just make it so players can have their companions/pets summoned, but are invisible to other players? Seems like this would help alleviate the problem of performance.

This was one of the cases ZOS was going to test, in addition to the test this thread is concerned with.

Personally i know i would love to see what others will do with their companions. Probably because i have this on the other game and some modification outfitting are really great.

Also this was a MMO, and suddenly all about others is slowly removed. MMO is not just only to group for dungeons or trial, its also sharing silly stuff, housing and more. Too bad this is slowly going away on this game

Spearpoint

Generally, does companions say something when they automatically dispawns? Like a courteous or acerbic farewell?

Maggusemm

Can we have Pet skins please in the crown shop?

After all feedback regarding the NERFs of CP system have been ignored we can focus on roleplaying.