800 gems for the mount

EmEm_Oh · May 2021

Nice. 800 gems for a cat with warts. No thanks.

These gem prices are getting ridiculous.

Goregrinder · May 2021

Brrrofski wrote: »

It honestly amazes me how people continue to defend things like this in games. Simping for some board room execs to get a bigger wage then last year.... In what other walk of life would you be ok with crazy prices getting higher and you having to spend crazy money to get what you want? And then go and defend that to your friends?

"Yeh, I had to buy loads of random boxes to get the shows I wanted, but I got them after £400".
"Oh, that sucks, I guess you'll never go to that shop again then?"
"Well actually, they have this coat where I have to spend £600 and hopefully I'll get it. It looks really nice though"

Firstly, how on earth can you justify the price of an in-game item that took one person very little time to design? Think what you can buy in real life for that money and the effort that would go in to it.

Secondly, people almost seem to wear these like badges of "I can afford it". When for a lot of players it's not about not being able to afford them, they just don't want to get so clearly ripped off.

The whole crown crate thing is anti consumer and consumers seem to support it, basically support something designed to exploit them for money.

Crown crates and crown gem exclusive things need to go. And the only way to do that is for people realising they're been taken advantage of and boycott them.

This game needs to be bought (I know it's on game pass too), has DLC costs (I know some come with ESO+, but chapters need to be bought while they're relevant), a subscription price (which makes the game awful to play without it), a cash shop, loot crates and a system where you actively WANT DUPLICATES in the loot crates. That is actually insane.

Crown gems will be earnable in game soon, but look at how the prices have shot up. Also, there's a reason they're doing it. Maybe because some regulation has come in. For me, I think it's a way to ease you in. You've spent 6 month earning 300 gems, and then a mount you REALLY want comes out, but only for 6 days. A lot of people will then try to get the gems through crates. Don't be surprised if we start seeing a crown gem exclusive pop up more often than we do now.

And I hear a lot of people say "well, I want to support the game". If you think that money goes back into the game, you're on another planet. Just look at performance - it is getting worse and worse every patch. This goes towards someone's bonus plain and simple. Probably some guy that doesn't even know what the game is called.

And to be clear, it's not just this game. Everyone is at it. Every game you play now has shortcuts, boosts, lootboxes and cash shop with cosmetic items. It's like they give you half a game at release and then drop feed you the rest of it over the next few years, for £25 per drip. The gaming industry is in a horrible state of staleness and money grabbing.

And yeh, I am a bit of a hypocrite. I still play this game and buy ESO+ which supports ZOS. But if you do anything other than 3 quests a week, the game is pretty awful to play without it. I will never, ever buy crown crates again though. Not even with gold from others players. It's the same result.

Why is it my business how much some board room exec makes? Whether my neighbor only makes $13k a year, or makes $50 million a year, it doesn't affect my life. If a company offers me a good or service, and It's something I could use, I'm going to offer them monetary currency in exchange. It's no one's business what I buy, and it's no one's business what they make. If you worried less about what everyone else around you had, you could spend more time and effort on building your own empire.

Villanelf · May 2021

I never bother with crown crates - personal/ethical choice not a financial constraint.

I guess if I had collected that many gems (beit over the short or long term) then I’d probably use them to get something decent like a fancy mount…what else could I use them for?

Goregrinder · May 2021

Villanelf wrote: »

I never bother with crown crates - personal/ethical choice not a financial constraint.

I guess if I had collected that many gems (beit over the short or long term) then I’d probably use them to get something decent like a fancy mount…what else could I use them for?

Riding lessons, maybe XP scrolls, I think even research scrolls. I believe there is a handful of stuff you have the option to purchase using gems instead of crowns. Whether or not those things are useful to you, well only you would know.

Brrrofski · May 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

It honestly amazes me how people continue to defend things like this in games. Simping for some board room execs to get a bigger wage then last year.... In what other walk of life would you be ok with crazy prices getting higher and you having to spend crazy money to get what you want? And then go and defend that to your friends?

"Yeh, I had to buy loads of random boxes to get the shows I wanted, but I got them after £400".
"Oh, that sucks, I guess you'll never go to that shop again then?"
"Well actually, they have this coat where I have to spend £600 and hopefully I'll get it. It looks really nice though"

Firstly, how on earth can you justify the price of an in-game item that took one person very little time to design? Think what you can buy in real life for that money and the effort that would go in to it.

Secondly, people almost seem to wear these like badges of "I can afford it". When for a lot of players it's not about not being able to afford them, they just don't want to get so clearly ripped off.

The whole crown crate thing is anti consumer and consumers seem to support it, basically support something designed to exploit them for money.

Crown crates and crown gem exclusive things need to go. And the only way to do that is for people realising they're been taken advantage of and boycott them.

This game needs to be bought (I know it's on game pass too), has DLC costs (I know some come with ESO+, but chapters need to be bought while they're relevant), a subscription price (which makes the game awful to play without it), a cash shop, loot crates and a system where you actively WANT DUPLICATES in the loot crates. That is actually insane.

Crown gems will be earnable in game soon, but look at how the prices have shot up. Also, there's a reason they're doing it. Maybe because some regulation has come in. For me, I think it's a way to ease you in. You've spent 6 month earning 300 gems, and then a mount you REALLY want comes out, but only for 6 days. A lot of people will then try to get the gems through crates. Don't be surprised if we start seeing a crown gem exclusive pop up more often than we do now.

And I hear a lot of people say "well, I want to support the game". If you think that money goes back into the game, you're on another planet. Just look at performance - it is getting worse and worse every patch. This goes towards someone's bonus plain and simple. Probably some guy that doesn't even know what the game is called.

And to be clear, it's not just this game. Everyone is at it. Every game you play now has shortcuts, boosts, lootboxes and cash shop with cosmetic items. It's like they give you half a game at release and then drop feed you the rest of it over the next few years, for £25 per drip. The gaming industry is in a horrible state of staleness and money grabbing.

And yeh, I am a bit of a hypocrite. I still play this game and buy ESO+ which supports ZOS. But if you do anything other than 3 quests a week, the game is pretty awful to play without it. I will never, ever buy crown crates again though. Not even with gold from others players. It's the same result.

Why is it my business how much some board room exec makes? Whether my neighbor only makes $13k a year, or makes $50 million a year, it doesn't affect my life. If a company offers me a good or service, and It's something I could use, I'm going to offer them monetary currency in exchange. It's no one's business what I buy, and it's no one's business what they make. If you worried less about what everyone else around you had, you could spend more time and effort on building your own empire.

Well you're not being offered a good service. That's the point. People are happy to let themselves being ripped off. It hundreds and hundreds of pounds for a reskinned mount. That is not a good service.

And it does matter. Because if a company can make all the money they need from things like this, why bother trying to make good quality content?

Look at Rockstar. GTA and RDR2 have had no single player content. All they get is thin online content, that has stupidly expensive items which realistically means you have to buy their currency to use.

By some people paying that amount of money, it makes it ok in a developer's eyes to keep selling at that price.

You spend your money on what you want. I ain't spending a penny on crown crates. It's not about how much money people have. I could buy enough crates every month to keep up crown gem exclusives. But I won't as I refuse to be mugged off. I don't understand why people let themselves get ripped off, and then defend it.

It causes more issues in the long run even for yourself. If everyone refused to buy stuff for 400 crown gems, do you think we'd now be at 800? No, they'd have to evaluate their pricing.

If everyone in every game as a unit shunned loot boxes, do you think companies would still make them? No, they'd revert to more cash shop transactions.

I don't fully even like a cash shop and think a lot more stuff should be earnable in the game, but it's nowhere near as bad as spending money on random items. And then spending money HOPING to get doubles to trade it in at a third of the value, to get enough to then use them on an item with a grossly inflated price.

I honestly can't fathom how ANYONE defends it.

Hopefully everyone in the gaming industry will start walking up soon and see that companies are taking them for fools.

Parasaurolophus · May 2021

In truth, many people have a lot of gems. I have 1600, my friend has 2800. And I know a few more people who have a large amount of crowns and are not going to spend them. ZoS sees this and wants us to spend gems somehow.
Well, really ... As long as there are no items in the crown store that affect the balance, I will be calm. And they will not be.

Elsonso · May 2021

Brrrofski wrote: »

And it does matter. Because if a company can make all the money they need from things like this, why bother trying to make good quality content?

Look at Rockstar. GTA and RDR2 have had no single player content. All they get is thin online content, that has stupidly expensive items which realistically means you have to buy their currency to use.

The quote above is my reasoning. I really don't care how people spend money, or how much money they have. I also don't care that studios make money. All I really care about is that game studios make games, and that is really the issue.

An 800 Gem mount really has nothing to do with ESO. Yes, you can ride around with it all day inside the game, but that is pretty much where it ends. The purpose of selling an 800 Gem mount is to get people to buy Crowns. Crowns have nothing to do with the game. Crown Crates have nothing to do with the game. Gems have nothing to do with the game.

When the game exists for the purpose of funneling people into the cash shop, then the game needs to be no better than what it takes to accomplish that goal at the least cost.

Studios that can make great games, do. Those that cannot, make online stores.

Goregrinder · May 2021

Brrrofski wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

It honestly amazes me how people continue to defend things like this in games. Simping for some board room execs to get a bigger wage then last year.... In what other walk of life would you be ok with crazy prices getting higher and you having to spend crazy money to get what you want? And then go and defend that to your friends?

"Yeh, I had to buy loads of random boxes to get the shows I wanted, but I got them after £400".
"Oh, that sucks, I guess you'll never go to that shop again then?"
"Well actually, they have this coat where I have to spend £600 and hopefully I'll get it. It looks really nice though"

Firstly, how on earth can you justify the price of an in-game item that took one person very little time to design? Think what you can buy in real life for that money and the effort that would go in to it.

Secondly, people almost seem to wear these like badges of "I can afford it". When for a lot of players it's not about not being able to afford them, they just don't want to get so clearly ripped off.

The whole crown crate thing is anti consumer and consumers seem to support it, basically support something designed to exploit them for money.

Crown crates and crown gem exclusive things need to go. And the only way to do that is for people realising they're been taken advantage of and boycott them.

This game needs to be bought (I know it's on game pass too), has DLC costs (I know some come with ESO+, but chapters need to be bought while they're relevant), a subscription price (which makes the game awful to play without it), a cash shop, loot crates and a system where you actively WANT DUPLICATES in the loot crates. That is actually insane.

Crown gems will be earnable in game soon, but look at how the prices have shot up. Also, there's a reason they're doing it. Maybe because some regulation has come in. For me, I think it's a way to ease you in. You've spent 6 month earning 300 gems, and then a mount you REALLY want comes out, but only for 6 days. A lot of people will then try to get the gems through crates. Don't be surprised if we start seeing a crown gem exclusive pop up more often than we do now.

And I hear a lot of people say "well, I want to support the game". If you think that money goes back into the game, you're on another planet. Just look at performance - it is getting worse and worse every patch. This goes towards someone's bonus plain and simple. Probably some guy that doesn't even know what the game is called.

And to be clear, it's not just this game. Everyone is at it. Every game you play now has shortcuts, boosts, lootboxes and cash shop with cosmetic items. It's like they give you half a game at release and then drop feed you the rest of it over the next few years, for £25 per drip. The gaming industry is in a horrible state of staleness and money grabbing.

And yeh, I am a bit of a hypocrite. I still play this game and buy ESO+ which supports ZOS. But if you do anything other than 3 quests a week, the game is pretty awful to play without it. I will never, ever buy crown crates again though. Not even with gold from others players. It's the same result.

Why is it my business how much some board room exec makes? Whether my neighbor only makes $13k a year, or makes $50 million a year, it doesn't affect my life. If a company offers me a good or service, and It's something I could use, I'm going to offer them monetary currency in exchange. It's no one's business what I buy, and it's no one's business what they make. If you worried less about what everyone else around you had, you could spend more time and effort on building your own empire.

Well you're not being offered a good service. That's the point. People are happy to let themselves being ripped off. It hundreds and hundreds of pounds for a reskinned mount. That is not a good service.

And it does matter. Because if a company can make all the money they need from things like this, why bother trying to make good quality content?

Look at Rockstar. GTA and RDR2 have had no single player content. All they get is thin online content, that has stupidly expensive items which realistically means you have to buy their currency to use.

By some people paying that amount of money, it makes it ok in a developer's eyes to keep selling at that price.

You spend your money on what you want. I ain't spending a penny on crown crates. It's not about how much money people have. I could buy enough crates every month to keep up crown gem exclusives. But I won't as I refuse to be mugged off. I don't understand why people let themselves get ripped off, and then defend it.

It causes more issues in the long run even for yourself. If everyone refused to buy stuff for 400 crown gems, do you think we'd now be at 800? No, they'd have to evaluate their pricing.

If everyone in every game as a unit shunned loot boxes, do you think companies would still make them? No, they'd revert to more cash shop transactions.

I don't fully even like a cash shop and think a lot more stuff should be earnable in the game, but it's nowhere near as bad as spending money on random items. And then spending money HOPING to get doubles to trade it in at a third of the value, to get enough to then use them on an item with a grossly inflated price.

I honestly can't fathom how ANYONE defends it.

Hopefully everyone in the gaming industry will start walking up soon and see that companies are taking them for fools.

What's bad for you, might be good for others. That's the thing about value, it's subjective. It's ok if you think it's a "bad service". But your main reason that it's bad is that the price is too high for you, and that is fine. We all have our individual scales of what prices seem fair or too much.

But the reality is, for a handful of us (probably more than a handful), 800 gems, well...doesn't really seem like a lot. So for us, they are offering us a "good service". So which is it...a "good" or "bad" service? That's the beautiful thing, the free market decides whether it's "good" or "bad". If only 12 players out of the hundred thousand active playerbase buys something while it's in rotation...well that would be an indication to ZOS that maybe people don't like the item, or that they should adjust the price.

But I doubt that's the case, considering how they decided price it and the fact that people have already been reportedly seen running around with this mount. So clearly people are exchanging their gems for it, otherwise no one would be running around with it right? And as mentioned above, a lot of players bank their crowns and gems for rainy days....so mounts (and items) like this were probably priced with that in mind, to give them the option to decide that today is a rainy day.

I understand that you don't like the price, that you probably think it should be about how many gems you currently have on your account, or even free. But for-profit companies will always maximize their profit anywhere they can. I mean, if people can be convinced by a company to pay $400 for Jordans , then I don't see why people shouldn't be convinced to pay $400 for anything else they want.

Malthorne · May 2021

It’s the mark of the whale

MasterWarrior · May 2021

Need more mounts you can get in game like Ebon Dwarven Mount. I loved going around getting the leads even though when the lead didn't drop I was like "WHY DIDN'T THE LEAD DROP????" but I had some cool convos with people who were also collecting the leads. And then the feeling you get when you complete it. Such a great feeling. Not very often I feel like this in this game. Most mounts you get in the store.

BoraxFlux · May 2021

The recolor looks better then the original (a matter of personal taste), but that's just it.
If there was an incentive to buy it, the pricing would be the deal-breaker for me. Will enjoy this one onto others as well. Already seen several in game.

Riptide · May 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

It is sad to watch. It isn’t admiration I feel for those that get these expensive items, but pity.

You're allowed to feel however you want about it.

Thanks

The truth is, not every item offered in the crown store is going to be targeted at the demographic that you fall under. I think that's the root cause of why people get upset about pricing, they think that every item a store sells should be priced just for them, but that's not how all stores work. Much like how not every car at a dealership is going to be priced to target the demo you fall under, the crown store is the same.

These items are for people willing to fork over the dough to get them. You think it costs too much because it's beyond your budget to spend. But even if it takes $400 or $500 to get 800 gems, all of the guitars I own cost way more than that. Point being, not everyone thinks this is a a lot, and not everyone thinks this is out of their price range...these items are for their demo.

Mate, I’m well to do and I’ll try and leave it at that. I can very easily afford any and all items in the crown store, it isn’t, at all, a matter of purchasing power.

It is the principle of it, the knowing that it targets those who cannot so easily afford it, and because a simple reskin is not anything like a vintage rickenbacker - which has resale value.

Anyway, I just see it differently than you do is all

Goregrinder · May 2021

Riptide wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

It is sad to watch. It isn’t admiration I feel for those that get these expensive items, but pity.

You're allowed to feel however you want about it.

Thanks

The truth is, not every item offered in the crown store is going to be targeted at the demographic that you fall under. I think that's the root cause of why people get upset about pricing, they think that every item a store sells should be priced just for them, but that's not how all stores work. Much like how not every car at a dealership is going to be priced to target the demo you fall under, the crown store is the same.

These items are for people willing to fork over the dough to get them. You think it costs too much because it's beyond your budget to spend. But even if it takes $400 or $500 to get 800 gems, all of the guitars I own cost way more than that. Point being, not everyone thinks this is a a lot, and not everyone thinks this is out of their price range...these items are for their demo.

Mate, I’m well to do and I’ll try and leave it at that. I can very easily afford any and all items in the crown store, it isn’t, at all, a matter of purchasing power.

It is the principle of it, the knowing that it targets those who cannot so easily afford it, and because a simple reskin is not anything like a vintage rickenbacker - which has resale value.

Anyway, I just see it differently than you do is all

That's what I'm trying to point out, it targets those who CAN afford it. If people who cannot easily afford it happen to also be staring at it from the window, that's not ZOS's fault. That means there is a demand for it. But it's for people who can afford 800 Gems. People who don't have 800 gems won't be able to buy it, so why would they target those people? They wouldn't...they want people who have the money, to buy it.

It would be like shaming a high end sports car company that uses a horse for their logo, for pricing their cars at $150,000, and saying it targets the people who can't easily afford a $150,000 car to go into debt just to get that car. As if people who only make say $45,000 a year are going to rack up a bunch of debt just to buy a $150,000 car. I just don't really follow that line of logic myself.

Riptide · May 2021

Because the deal is that people who see a crown gem item and have no or few crown gems, and a bad idea of how many crates it takes with duplicates to amass 800 crowns start in on trying to amass it by buying crates. They get 100 or so gems and figure they got unlucky. They get to 400 or so and then reckon they are too invested to stop. They chase it to 800, they get their mount or whatever item only finally - after spending far more than they intended.

This is why most of us would have less problem with a flatly priced item for $500, or $800, or $1500.

Not only would it be more honest, but it would frankly be ridiculed even beyond the gaming scene.

But it is the obfuscating it behind the crown crate/gem mechanic that makes it work, and makes it so wholly objectionable.

Goregrinder · May 2021

Riptide wrote: »

Because the deal is that people who see a crown gem item and have no or few crown gems, and a bad idea of how many crates it takes with duplicates to amass 800 crowns start in on trying to amass it by buying crates. They get 100 or so gems and figure they got unlucky. They get to 400 or so and then reckon they are too invested to stop. They chase it to 800, they get their mount or whatever item only finally - after spending far more than they intended.

This is why most of us would have less problem with a flatly priced item for $500, or $800, or $1500.

Not only would it be more honest, but it would frankly be ridiculed even beyond the gaming scene.

But it is the obfuscating it behind the crown crate/gem mechanic that makes it work, and makes it so wholly objectionable.

The problem you portrayed with the scenario you provided, is a problem that has nothing to do with ZOS, and everything to do with personal responsibility. I would love to drive a Lambo around, or fly in a private G6 Jet. Would be super gnarly! But I'm not going to go into debt over it. If a person goes into debt because they wanted an item that was beyond their means of subsistence, that is not the item's fault, or the company who made said item's fault.

The argument you're making here is essentially an argument that says "It's your fault for tempting me". It's not ZOS's fault if people are tempted...that's why self-control is an important thing to teach, because it can be applied to literally everything in life, including crown store items that might cost 800 gems.

Riptide · May 2021

The argument I am making is to not obfuscate high priced items behind the crate/gem mechanic, because of the reasons I have already enumerated.

Again, it is not that I lack the purchasing power. It is not because I do not understand basic economics or what the market will bear or any of it. I mean what I say literally, there is no hidden meaning.

I find it objectionable not just that it is overpriced, which it is. That would have me rolling my eyes but not taking the trouble to post or to explain my thoughts.

I find it objectionable because it is deceitful, at base. That allows the items not only to move in higher numbers, but guards them from the blowback which would force prices back down to reasonable levels and a whole host of things.

Coupled with the recent bugs on consoles that users are forced to live with that they are paying for and so on, it becomes reasonable to use the word “unethical” and mean it in every sense of the word.

Goregrinder · May 2021

Riptide wrote: »

The argument I am making is to not obfuscate high priced items behind the crate/gem mechanic, because of the reasons I have already enumerated.

Again, it is not that I lack the purchasing power. It is not because I do not understand basic economics or what the market will bear or any of it. I mean what I say literally, there is no hidden meaning.

I find it objectionable not just that it is overpriced, which it is. That would have me rolling my eyes but not taking the trouble to post or to explain my thoughts.

I find it objectionable because it is deceitful, at base. That allows the items not only to move in higher numbers, but guards them from the blowback which would force prices back down to reasonable levels and a whole host of things.

Coupled with the recent bugs on consoles that users are forced to live with that they are paying for and so on, it becomes reasonable to use the word “unethical” and mean it in every sense of the word.

Well I mean, companies can chose to sell their products however they want to present them, it's up to consumers whether not we like that. You obviously don't, but the people that are buying them do...which consumer is right?

Riptide · May 2021

See that used to be the difference in gaming. We were players, gamers first. Consumers second or third.

If we are consumers and only consumers then there is little soul left to a game.

And so your question will be answered swiftly when more alternatives enter the market that get the order in a more player oriented fashion. I’d rather not see that hollowing out happen.

Anyway, the fact remains it is not admiration or wow factor I feel when I see one of these items in the game, and I am far from alone in that. That isn’t intended to be condescending to consumers, as you term them - and not everyone makes these purchases for status but for self satisfaction and so on. That’s great.

But it is an honest opinion shared by others, and people who are influenced by the perceived status of these items deserve to know that is not how they are received by all or perhaps even most players, and adjust their consumption accordingly if it matters to them

Jeffrey530 · May 2021

Riptide wrote: »

See that used to be the difference in gaming. We were players, gamers first. Consumers second or third.

If we are consumers and only consumers then there is little soul left to a game.

And so your question will be answered swiftly when more alternatives enter the market that get the order in a more player oriented fashion. I’d rather not see that hollowing out happen.

Anyway, the fact remains it is not admiration or wow factor I feel when I see one of these items in the game, and I am far from alone in that. That isn’t intended to be condescending to consumers, as you term them - and not everyone makes these purchases for status but for self satisfaction and so on. That’s great.

But it is an honest opinion shared by others, and people who are influenced by the perceived status of these items deserve to know that is not how they are received by all or perhaps even most players, and adjust their consumption accordingly if it matters to them

That's not even correct. We are definitely consumer first then player second or third, same as in any other types of entertainment. Hell in the US even healthcare is consumer first lol then human second. Can we not agree that it is a bit naive to talk about 'soul' with a triple A studio unless you can show me a gaming company that never aims to earn as much money as possible from the player base but able to produce a similar or higher quality game to eso,gta, final fantasy, red dead online etc.

Edit: I have no issue with people disliking the mount or the pricing, I do as well. But what I don't understand is your condescending mentality against those that bought these crown gem items, and don't tell me it isn't condescending when you say something like 'pity them' when you don't even know whether they can easily afford it or sold a kidney or it.

PigofSteel · May 2021

Well long time ago i bought package for 50$ of boxes and i got only poisons and potions since than i dont even open crown store anymore... Interesting that in other mmos you can buy cool mounts for like 10$ straight... I always hoped that eso would have something like that.

Riptide · May 2021

Well, as a pre beta tester of this game and one of the first five or so people outside of the dev team to walk up and behold Elden Root, I will say this - one person’s naïveté is another’s je ne sais quoi and simply agree to disagree.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · May 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

It is sad to watch. It isn’t admiration I feel for those that get these expensive items, but pity.

You're allowed to feel however you want about it.

Thanks

The truth is, not every item offered in the crown store is going to be targeted at the demographic that you fall under. I think that's the root cause of why people get upset about pricing, they think that every item a store sells should be priced just for them, but that's not how all stores work. Much like how not every car at a dealership is going to be priced to target the demo you fall under, the crown store is the same.

These items are for people willing to fork over the dough to get them. You think it costs too much because it's beyond your budget to spend. But even if it takes $400 or $500 to get 800 gems, all of the guitars I own cost way more than that. Point being, not everyone thinks this is a a lot, and not everyone thinks this is out of their price range...these items are for their demo.

Mate, I’m well to do and I’ll try and leave it at that. I can very easily afford any and all items in the crown store, it isn’t, at all, a matter of purchasing power.

It is the principle of it, the knowing that it targets those who cannot so easily afford it, and because a simple reskin is not anything like a vintage rickenbacker - which has resale value.

Anyway, I just see it differently than you do is all

That's what I'm trying to point out, it targets those who CAN afford it. If people who cannot easily afford it happen to also be staring at it from the window, that's not ZOS's fault. That means there is a demand for it. But it's for people who can afford 800 Gems. People who don't have 800 gems won't be able to buy it, so why would they target those people? They wouldn't...they want people who have the money, to buy it.

It would be like shaming a high end sports car company that uses a horse for their logo, for pricing their cars at $150,000, and saying it targets the people who can't easily afford a $150,000 car to go into debt just to get that car. As if people who only make say $45,000 a year are going to rack up a bunch of debt just to buy a $150,000 car. I just don't really follow that line of logic myself.

Or...or or. Here's an idea. Price things reasonably, and more people will actually buy the item. Everyone's happy. I can't even imagine defending business practices about virtual items, that don't even have physical substance, costing literal hundreds of dollars... Zos is alienating their playerbase with such practices.

Riptide · May 2021

[Quoted post was removed]

If you say so. What I was getting at is that the feeling was magical and that that was where I am coming from, wanting to see that perpetuated rather than unbridled consumerism.

Anyway, good day.

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO · May 2021

That must be an experiment. Maybe they're trying to push the price up to see if it turns it into a status symbol for being a casino whale.

Its not even that good. If i had 800 gems, id only want it if i didn't have 2 better senches... and even then for that much money where's the 8 foot glowing raidius of epic like the other mount?

The got sprung on their marketing experiment and the mount was not deserving of such high ambitions. Thats about it.

Hexi · May 2021

When there is an army of people that will spend 100$ for a mount, why would they stop? If you wanna rain in on the crown crap, stop buying crown crap.

Kiyakotari · May 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

[...] anytime I want access to it.

Until they take their servers down.

Kiyakotari · May 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

Because the deal is that people who see a crown gem item and have no or few crown gems, and a bad idea of how many crates it takes with duplicates to amass 800 crowns start in on trying to amass it by buying crates. They get 100 or so gems and figure they got unlucky. They get to 400 or so and then reckon they are too invested to stop. They chase it to 800, they get their mount or whatever item only finally - after spending far more than they intended.

This is why most of us would have less problem with a flatly priced item for $500, or $800, or $1500.

Not only would it be more honest, but it would frankly be ridiculed even beyond the gaming scene.

But it is the obfuscating it behind the crown crate/gem mechanic that makes it work, and makes it so wholly objectionable.

The problem you portrayed with the scenario you provided, is a problem that has nothing to do with ZOS, and everything to do with personal responsibility. I would love to drive a Lambo around, or fly in a private G6 Jet. Would be super gnarly! But I'm not going to go into debt over it. If a person goes into debt because they wanted an item that was beyond their means of subsistence, that is not the item's fault, or the company who made said item's fault.

The argument you're making here is essentially an argument that says "It's your fault for tempting me". It's not ZOS's fault if people are tempted...that's why self-control is an important thing to teach, because it can be applied to literally everything in life, including crown store items that might cost 800 gems.

Except your argument is flawed, because the scenario that @Riptide provided does directly have to do with ZOS. The Crown Crate system is designed in a manner that obfuscates the actual dollar value of Crown Gems - because ZOS does not release data about the drop rates of items, and has for years ignored player requests to do so, the player community can only estimate the value of Crown Gems based on community-sourced information gathered from addons that are run by only a subsection of the player population. As a result, players don't know what the expected rate of return is, and their purchasing of Crown Crates may follow a pattern precisely like the one @Riptide outlined: Thinking they bought enough to get what they wanted, but then they only end up with maybe a third of the Gems they need. And thinking, "Well, I just got unlucky," so getting a bit more, but only end up with two thirds of the Gems they need - and hey, they might stop there, having spent more than they wanted, though not so much that they've "gone into debt," but also not having been able to purchase the Gem Only Item/Shiny Thing. Or they might think, "Well, that's already more than I wanted to spend, might as well go all in," and buy more, and end up with enough Gems to get their Shiny Thing, but also having overspent enough that it makes something else in their life difficult.

Additionally, your argument completely ignores the fact that Crown Crates are themselves designed to prey on players using intermittent reinforcement, something that is well-researched and documented in the field of psychology, and is part of what makes many RNG-based gambling systems (such as slot machines) so successful. Since Crown Gems can only be obtained via Crown Crates (no, they will not be earnable in game - ZOS is introducing a different earnable currency that will be useable to purchase items from Crown Crates, but will apparently have a different, unknown value), this "gambling" aspect is relevant. While there is much noise made in legislative bodies about how "loot boxes" in games introduce "vulnerable children" to gambling at an unacceptably young age (which is entirely valid), the truth is that all of us are susceptible to the motivational impact of intermittent reinforcement. It is true that some populations (regardless of age) are more at risk, in particular people who suffer from or have suffered from a substance abuse disorder, who have other maladaptive behaviors (eating disorders, sex addictions, gaming addictions, self-harm, etc), or who have other mental health issues. Know what those at-risk populations all have in common? They're all more likely to be living at or below poverty levels for their region.

Trust me, this is all something the people who market these products know. They're not coming up with their ideas about who to target, and how to sell things, and how to make the biggest profits, with blinders on. Marketing teams have psychology backgrounds, and fully understand who is most likely to be impacted by different sales strategies, whether it's FOMO generated by limited time offers (including time-limited price reductions!), or the exclusivity appeal of extremely high prices and limited quantities, or intermittent reinforcement, or other approaches, these people do know who they're selling to. They're making their choices from a fully informed viewpoint. It is our choice as consumers whether or not we will support those choices.

For myself, also coming from an informed position, this isn't the kind of thing that I would leave ESO over. I'm totally down with "vote with your money/feet," and it's something I practice. I'll continue to play. I just won't buy this mount. I'll keep watching the trends in the Crown Store. Some of the things I've seen in the past few months have given me pause. If I see more things of concern, maybe I'll change my position going forward. But for now I'm here. I just don't think we should shy away from valid criticism when we are concerned by things we observe.

Brrrofski · May 2021

People still defending this BS. Shameful.

There's a whole bunch of people sitting on their yachts, laughing at you.

"Wait, they actually bought it for over $400??? Hahahaha"

Rowjoh · May 2021

You have to seriously question who is buying this stuff.

Apart from the odd Radiant, the vast majority of mounts are old ones re-hashed. Further more there was nothing special or cool about them in the first place, and the 're-designs' look even worse.

Think I might go and paint my car luminous green, stick some googly eyes on the the bonnet and a pair of cardboard cut-out dragon wings on the roof then find an ESO player to sell it to as a 'limited edition model' for x100 times its value

joerginger · May 2021

Rowjoh wrote: »

Think I might go and paint my car luminous green, stick some googly eyes on the the bonnet and a pair of cardboard cut-out dragon wings on the roof then find an ESO player to sell it to as a 'limited edition model' for x100 times its value

The difference would be that your buyer would get an actual product with an actual value (which might be perhaps slightly less than what they paid for

, but it would be a real, tangible product. In the case of the mount, the potential buyer gets absolutely nothing with no value attached to it whatsoever.