Proc sets for magicka players

Rhygam

Are the Devs aware that most magicka based proc sets are now stronger on stam then mag?

Really. After extensive testing on PTS and talking to other players, that have been testing on PTS i have many questions:


1. Why. As an example Zaan (and for gods sake as a magDD in PVE please dont nerf Zaan itself)....It does flame damage - why would weapon dmg buff that. Why dot get rid of the distinction between wd and sd at all? Bc all of the mag proc stes are just stronger on stam. ALL of them.
2. Is there no cap on the proc tts? Please just look at the Zaan or at the Syvarrah tt: it is crazy. How easy it is already to get 8- 9k wp dmg in pvp on a stam char... Are the devs aware, that they just gave everyone 1k extra dmg?
3. Why should proc sets scale at all? Especially to do more dmg then they do currently? Whouldnt it have been so much easier to just nerf proc dmg through battle spirit: eg the dmg dealt by your sets is reduced by x%?
4. Is there a stamina bias of the devs, regarding pvp, or was it overlooked and why is there no communication of it? E.g: Many mag classes have no proper execute, whilst the stamina pendants have more then one to choose from. While the 2h offers many nice abilities and is already as a backbar weapon (one of the most common stamina pvp bb weapons), it still recieves buffs. The destro staff, the only offensive option for magicka (ability wise), recieved only nerfs, still does not contain a proper execute and the cleave ability is so underpowered, that it is a laughing stock: yes i am looking at you "Pulsar".
5. Light armor in pvp is so weak that it leaves all classes that cant sneak or streak and shieldstack defenseless. So most of the actual pvpers are forced to run heavy. It direly needs more tankyness, to be even able to compete with the other armor types. Rn, a surprise attack, a blastbones or a sub assault can 1 shot you on some classes, if you run light armor. That is not balanced and plainly sad. This direly needs to be adressed.
6. This is not a PTS issue but, despite Cyro beeing always poplocked and you have to wait half an hour to get in, it then feels empty, weirdly enough especially recently. Maybe it needs to have that player cap increased or a rework of, how Cyro works. But this is not supposed to be the main topic of this Thread.

Increasingly concerned of the future of PVP in this game, i am hoping at some point, some of these issues get adressed.

karekiz

Rhygam wrote: »

3. Why should proc sets scale at all? Especially to do more dmg then they do currently? Whouldnt it have been so much easier to just nerf proc dmg through battle spirit: eg the dmg dealt by your sets is reduced by x%?

Because we need new systems to balance and make sure they aren't bugged instead of using systems already built to do the exact same thing.

Canned_Apples

Play the patch.
If its garbage, dont play and don’t subscribe.
Also, dont forget to cancel your sub. I subbed for the anniversary event and forgot to cancel.

$$$ is the only influencing factor

Anyron

1) Procs should have stayed at same dmg/heal value as its on live but with scaling from zero so players need to build for it..
2) Procsets should have cap of 1 set per char as mythic items
3) Procsets should have scale from max resource and dmg
NO DMG SCALING FROM MAX HEATLH
But zos did the worst thing they could do as always

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

It' amazing really.. When I started playing years ago, I enjoyed pvp and pve. Lag was barely an issue. The CP cap was attainable, and it felt powerful to level. Stam and mag played together in trials, and multiple builds were viable in every type of content. Mag was perfectly able to hold its own in pvp. You could choose to wear proc sets, or not. I had a pve dps tank that was incredibly fun, and many kinds of off meta builds could flourish. But now? Look at it now. Lag, desyncs, and harmful glitches are rampant. The already neutered CP system is now a sour joke and honestly meme-worthy, not to mention that end game pve is asking for higher CP players than ever before, thus widening the gap EVEN FURTHER than it was before. Casual dps is worse than ever before, as is survivability for average players. Stamina utterly dominates in pvp, and now proc sets are going to be out of control in an environment where they were already tweaked to be a thorn in players' sides. Stamina is going to be dead in end game pve, and magicka is also going to be suffering because of the proc changes. Every dps is wearing the same thing again, and off meta builds are now not even going to be viable in anything but the most simple overworld scenarios. The classes have been hilariously homogenized and gutted. The balance is completely and utterly ruined, and everyone is being shoehorned into the same boring builds to be competent. The days of actual balance are so far gone that I have to actually remind myself they actually existed at all. What has zos actually accomplished? This is the worst state the game has ever been in, in every respect.

Foto1

Anyron wrote: »

1) Procs should have stayed at same dmg/heal value as its on live but with scaling from zero so players need to build for it..
2) Procsets should have cap of 1 set per char as mythic items
3) Procsets should have scale from max resource and dmg
NO DMG SCALING FROM MAX HEATLH
But zos did the worst thing they could do as always

Do you know that 95% of the sets in the game are proc sets?
Do you want to force each character to choose from the 20 sets currently used in Cyrodiil?

Idinuse

Rhygam wrote: »

Are the Devs aware that most magicka based proc sets are now stronger on stam then mag?

Really. After extensive testing on PTS and talking to other players, that have been testing on PTS i have many questions:


1. Why. As an example Zaan (and for gods sake as a magDD in PVE please dont nerf Zaan itself)....It does flame damage - why would weapon dmg buff that. Why dot get rid of the distinction between wd and sd at all? Bc all of the mag proc stes are just stronger on stam. ALL of them.
2. Is there no cap on the proc tts? Please just look at the Zaan or at the Syvarrah tt: it is crazy. How easy it is already to get 8- 9k wp dmg in pvp on a stam char... Are the devs aware, that they just gave everyone 1k extra dmg?
3. Why should proc sets scale at all? Especially to do more dmg then they do currently? Whouldnt it have been so much easier to just nerf proc dmg through battle spirit: eg the dmg dealt by your sets is reduced by x%?

4. Is there a stamina bias of the devs, regarding pvp, or was it overlooked and why is there no communication of it?

E.g: Many mag classes have no proper execute, whilst the stamina pendants have more then one to choose from. While the 2h offers many nice abilities and is already as a backbar weapon (one of the most common stamina pvp bb weapons), it still recieves buffs. The destro staff, the only offensive option for magicka (ability wise), recieved only nerfs, still does not contain a proper execute and the cleave ability is so underpowered, that it is a laughing stock: yes i am looking at you "Pulsar".
5. Light armor in pvp is so weak that it leaves all classes that cant sneak or streak and shieldstack defenseless. So most of the actual pvpers are forced to run heavy. It direly needs more tankyness, to be even able to compete with the other armor types. Rn, a surprise attack, a blastbones or a sub assault can 1 shot you on some classes, if you run light armor. That is not balanced and plainly sad. This direly needs to be adressed.
6. This is not a PTS issue but, despite Cyro beeing always poplocked and you have to wait half an hour to get in, it then feels empty, weirdly enough especially recently. Maybe it needs to have that player cap increased or a rework of, how Cyro works. But this is not supposed to be the main topic of this Thread.

Increasingly concerned of the future of PVP in this game, i am hoping at some point, some of these issues get adressed.

Yes. Yes there is and yes there always has been after nerfing the cloth and stick meta at the start.

Elder Scrolls Online is Elder Scrolls Stamina Online a.k.a. The ESSO Club.

Anyron

Foto1 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

1) Procs should have stayed at same dmg/heal value as its on live but with scaling from zero so players need to build for it..
2) Procsets should have cap of 1 set per char as mythic items
3) Procsets should have scale from max resource and dmg
NO DMG SCALING FROM MAX HEATLH
But zos did the worst thing they could do as always

Do you know that 95% of the sets in the game are proc sets?
Do you want to force each character to choose from the 20 sets currently used in Cyrodiil?

Do you know some proc sets are considered proc without any reason?
I never said its ok to be able to use 10 sets in Cyro, its not fun. But where is problem?

Just change how set works. Stat procs are ok. Damage and healing proc sets should be gutted.

Septimus_Magna

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Play the patch.
If its garbage, dont play and don’t subscribe.
Also, dont forget to cancel your sub. I subbed for the anniversary event and forgot to cancel.

$$$ is the only influencing factor

Voting with your wallet is a beautiful concept, the problem is that we dont get to decide what direction ZOS is going. ESO is getting more casual friendly (ie less vertical progression) so there's a big chance that only increases when long time players stop playing and paying.

I am not saying you should pay regardless of the state and development direction, I just doubt it will have the effect we would want.

Mayrael

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Play the patch.
If its garbage, dont play and don’t subscribe.
Also, dont forget to cancel your sub. I subbed for the anniversary event and forgot to cancel.

$$$ is the only influencing factor

This, no more money from me. When looking at current balance state I wish Eric Wrobel was back... At least he had some method in this insanity, while current team contradicts itself with every patch.

Anyron

Mayrael wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Play the patch.
If its garbage, dont play and don’t subscribe.
Also, dont forget to cancel your sub. I subbed for the anniversary event and forgot to cancel.

$$$ is the only influencing factor

This, no more money from me. When looking at current balance state I wish Eric Wrobel was back... At least he had some method in this insanity, while current team contradicts itself with every patch.

What? He was that who started that stamina damage magicka support crap in pvp.

And now they continue. Fiiine, i will use healing procs. You can keep hitting me and i will heal myself with crappy mag heals much weaker than vigor and heal sets that are much weaker than damaging ones.

Doesnt matter i am no threat to that stam guy attacking me.

tsaescishoeshiner

I did a casual proc test in Clever Alchemist and New Moon Acolyte, using Nirnhoned in Light Armor and Sharpened for Medium Armor to test Selene's. I used the armored 6 mil dummy and tested Battle Axe and Lightning Staff on both builds. Race was Argonian.

Selene's was only doing 1,000 more damage in Medium Armor compared to Light.

That obviously doesn't take into consideration:
- the Spell Penetration from Light Armor not impacting Selene's
- A better test using Maces and Inferno Staves, among other details

I can only hope that this inspires someone to do a more thorough test of realistic PvP builds comparing the light and medium procs. The fact that I haven't seen one in the forums yet makes me feel like the proc damage discrepancy for meta PvP builds won't be disastrous, even if mag could use help. I'd love to be proven right or wrong.

OlumoGarbag

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I did a casual proc test in Clever Alchemist and New Moon Acolyte, using Nirnhoned in Light Armor and Sharpened for Medium Armor to test Selene's. I used the armored 6 mil dummy and tested Battle Axe and Lightning Staff on both builds. Race was Argonian.

Selene's was only doing 1,000 more damage in Medium Armor compared to Light.

That obviously doesn't take into consideration:
- the Spell Penetration from Light Armor not impacting Selene's
- A better test using Maces and Inferno Staves, among other details

I can only hope that this inspires someone to do a more thorough test of realistic PvP builds comparing the light and medium procs. The fact that I haven't seen one in the forums yet makes me feel like the proc damage discrepancy for meta PvP builds won't be disastrous, even if mag could use help. I'd love to be proven right or wrong.

Well no one uses light armor on magicka. There arent that many benefits to it. Taking 2% more damage from stamina players per piece is a death sentence for the already squishiest light armor users.

divnyi

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Well no one uses light armor on magicka. There arent that many benefits to it. Taking 2% more damage from stamina players per piece is a death sentence for the already squishiest light armor users.

No one is a loud statement. I use 5 on double-shield sorc (access to skill), 3 on magplar (forced to use 4 heavy to survive), was forced to use 4 light on dk healer (sustain issues).

I wish they removed that stupid physical damage weakness tho.

Anyron

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I did a casual proc test in Clever Alchemist and New Moon Acolyte, using Nirnhoned in Light Armor and Sharpened for Medium Armor to test Selene's. I used the armored 6 mil dummy and tested Battle Axe and Lightning Staff on both builds. Race was Argonian.

Selene's was only doing 1,000 more damage in Medium Armor compared to Light.

That obviously doesn't take into consideration:
- the Spell Penetration from Light Armor not impacting Selene's
- A better test using Maces and Inferno Staves, among other details

I can only hope that this inspires someone to do a more thorough test of realistic PvP builds comparing the light and medium procs. The fact that I haven't seen one in the forums yet makes me feel like the proc damage discrepancy for meta PvP builds won't be disastrous, even if mag could use help. I'd love to be proven right or wrong.

someone tried to test it.. thread is called magicka builds cannot stack spellpower like stamina

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

I'll just leave this here....

Target:
19,800 armor. (30%+/- mitigation). 50% Battle Spirit.

Proc Monkey A:
Medium armor. 8000 weapon damage. 10k proc damage tooltip. 0 Penetration.
Hits Target for: 2800

Proc Monkey B:
Light armor. 4000 spell damage. 5k proc damage tooltip. 19,800 Penetration.
Hits Target for: 2500

Basic math is fun.

This math is extremely flawed as it totally ignores Maul and Minor Breach penetration that stam have on 2H builds, and Major Breach from Sword/Shield which is a popular secondary weapon. In addition, spell resistance is much higher on average than physical resistance, but for argument's sake I'll use your false equivalency for my math.

Not to mention light armor (source of that spell pen you're so enamored with) makes you take 1% more damage from stam builds per piece worn, which should also count toward the stam side's calculations since you're putting the two against each other.


Stam:

2974 or 4.5% penetration (minor breach)
+ 3300 or 5% penetration (maul)
+ 5948 or 9% penetration (major breach)
____________________________________________
12222 or 18.5% penetration


+ 4% (4 pieces of light armor worn by mag target; only using 4 pieces because you only need a few to be debuffed a lot)
____________________________________________
~22% damage modifier


Proc Monkey A:
Medium armor. 8000 weapon damage. 10k proc damage tooltip. 12222 Penetration and target wearing 4x Light Armor
Hits Target for: 4600

Proc Monkey B:
Light armor. 4000 spell damage. 5k proc damage tooltip. 19,800 Penetration.
Hits Target for: 2500

So not only is stam's tooltip even higher, but their base stats give much more healing and base skill damage options than what can be achieved by mag builds building the same way.

By the way, chances are mag builds are reduced close to 0% physical resistance on actual popular offensive builds by minimal penetration investment from stam builds, while most meta builds (whether stam or mag) have way higher innate spell resistance from passives and armor types across the board and will still have usable spell resistance even after penetration debuffs are accounted for, so spell penetration is even weaker than you give it credit for.

you can look it up if you want.. but to your test.. remember: you cannot go full spell power you need some regen because mag. skills cost 15% more than stamina and you also need to build for stam recovery for cc break
for shields you need max mag as well
stamina just goes for weap. dmg + stamina regen

Sahidom

Slaods set may have its come back soon since 2.0 shifted damage mitigation into slotted defenses to reduce oblivion damage; as other proc build get to be more specialized builds and stacking health.

Viewsfrom6ix

Please ZOS, you can't match SD and WD requirements for proc sets. Stam builds naturally have more WD because of medium armor. The bonus spell pen coming from light armor has no benefit to procs at all. To make it even worse, light armor has physical damage penalty!

This is just beating someone when they're already down. Stam already rules PvP.

To the topic of proc requirements, please increase WD req or lower SD req. Or even better, reduce proc effects in Battle Spirit so PvE isn't affected since I feel like this whole change is because of PvP.

Stevie6

I’ve been smashing my head against a brick wall for four years trying to get my magsorc to get any dps. I ended up making a sorc tank for survival and low dps basically for overland/normal dungeons. I even tried vampire ( got the cure last nite). The pre Morrowind petsorc worked best for me because of it’s ease of use. Then I made a change.

I rolled up a stamcro and it has made a difference. I’m doing upwards of 35k dps on overland and normal dungeons. Taking down stuff is a lot faster. My magsorc only does 4K to 11k dps on average compared to the old pet sorc 20k to 30k. I’m now a stam user and liking it a lot.

Side note: I rolled up a magecro and it seems like it will be good as well.

Stevie6

Forgot to add: there is a dps, wd, sp damage issue. Mag is lower than stam in any content...in my case that is. I was killed in IC by stam players and I basically hit like a wet noodle in pve content with magsorc...I made the change to stam and it’s made a difference. I don’t have but overland and crafted gear. So my perspective on this is limited. All of my vet head sets I got came before the iceheart nerf accept for one..got a carry for Zaans.

How do the devs raise the floor with a low sp damage? Can’t stack it like stam.