Make all proc sets scale from max resources?

zvavi

Serious question, if the issue was high health builds, with 4 proc sets, why not make all proc sets scale from max resources? You can't stack health and max resources together as effectively, because all their bonuses come from the same place.

Bonus effect, it will leave them more or less on the same place in PvE.

Waffennacht

Mag procs should be max mag
Stam procs should be wpn dmg

If u wanna go that way that is

Urzigurumash

Definitely a good point, however, perhaps one underappreciated benefit of split stat scaling for the two categories of procs is that you can't maximize a damage proc and a healing proc in one build. There's not many places where we choose between Damage and Resource, but there are a few. One thing about just stacking health and damage - you're simply not going to have good sustain, from both low regen and low max stam/mag pools.

Chilly-McFreeze

Waffennacht wrote: »

Mag procs should be max mag
Stam procs should be wpn dmg

If u wanna go that way that is

Why not simply let them scale like those ordinary "whichever is higher" skills by taking into account both nax resource and dmg stats etc.?

zvavi

Waffennacht wrote: »

Mag procs should be max mag
Stam procs should be wpn dmg

If u wanna go that way that is

the idea was to combat high health high dmg proc builds, giving mag a small boost through proc sets is tbh nice imo, since all mag builds (excluding sorc) are currently underperforming compared to the stam counterpart, if you really want they could make it stack on 38k mag or 36k stam, giving stam a bit more freedom.

Sahidom

I dont agree. Not all sets are receiving the scaling treatment, which is curious why ZOS has targeted these sets exclusively than their normal blanket coverage on all damage or healing procs.

exrei

This was my original suggestion when I said the issue of unkillable tanks in PvP still putting out a ton of damage was for procs to scale off the highest resource applicable to that set.

Healing/Tanks sets scale off health (with a higher requirement than stamina or Magicka, so you don't get 100% benefit of the proc with so little effort).

Damage sets scale off Magicka or Stamina.

Then you can't have a tank build that has 60k health and still do a ton of proc damage. If the tank builds for a ton of armor, there is penetration to counter. There is no reliable counter to 60k health, except oblivion damage which is lackluster for PvP.

Glass cannons who build specifically for proc damage (max Stamina/Magicka) lose out on defensive stats and pure weapon/spell damage - it becomes a trade off of maxing out proc damage vs maxing out ability damage (but you can't have both maxed out so easily). But to allow proc sets to be competitive in PvE, perhaps allow them to crit again. In PvP, if they focus proc set damage, they get their one chance to do their burst damage and hope it crits (impen reducing the crit). When proc is on cool down, they are vulnerable because of low weapon/spell damage. Again, trade offs and playstyle preferences.

Rounded out builds (1vXers or off-tanks, or tank players who geared a little bit for damage for overland or switching to food that buffs stamina/magicka) using a proc set will not have such ridiculous proc damage because their Stamina/Magicka isn't as high as it possibly could go, but is enough to get by.

There is no issue of mag or stam builds not being treated equally because both can get pretty ridiculously high in their resource if that is what they focus.

When I saw that some sets would scale off weapon/spell damage, I knew it was going to be a disaster for the PvE and PvP community (because medium armor can get a ton of weapon damage without sacrificing too much in defense/health stats - but maybe lose out in some stamina).

kalunte

pool stats are overtuned. both stam and magicka gives too much by themselves: ressource (the more you have, the slower you'll be to reach 0), damage, shields, and healing.

As long as the game remain with such stats that does everything there wont be any balance in the game, whatever tweaks you do over and over.

Stats' role should be clearly identified in the first place before going any further.

why do you think magsorcs have been ruling the entire mags over and over? because they only had to stack magicka on top of more magicka to have the best burst, the best shields, and the best burstheal with a large enough pool to decide if they want to stick to the fight or just run far enough to recover some ressources through streak.

1stat does it all. game over.

exrei

kalunte wrote: »

pool stats are overtuned. both stam and magicka gives too much by themselves: ressource (the more you have, the slower you'll be to reach 0), damage, shields, and healing.

As long as the game remain with such stats that does everything there wont be any balance in the game, whatever tweaks you do over and over.

Stats' role should be clearly identified in the first place before going any further.

why do you think magsorcs have been ruling the entire mags over and over? because they only had to stack magicka on top of more magicka to have the best burst, the best shields, and the best burstheal with a large enough pool to decide if they want to stick to the fight or just run far enough to recover some ressources through streak.

1stat does it all. game over.

Sounds more like your issue is with MagSorc; not the Magicka stat. Because I hear a lot from the other side that stamina is king and mag underperforms.

zvavi

kalunte wrote: »

pool stats are overtuned. both stam and magicka gives too much by themselves: ressource (the more you have, the slower you'll be to reach 0), damage, shields, and healing.

As long as the game remain with such stats that does everything there wont be any balance in the game, whatever tweaks you do over and over.

Stats' role should be clearly identified in the first place before going any further.

why do you think magsorcs have been ruling the entire mags over and over? because they only had to stack magicka on top of more magicka to have the best burst, the best shields, and the best burstheal with a large enough pool to decide if they want to stick to the fight or just run far enough to recover some ressources through streak.

1stat does it all. game over.

The only reason mag sorc survives in this stam meta is the mobility it has. Take away that mobility and it will be destroyed in the stam meta just like any other mag spec. Not to speak about mag stacking being less effective for damage and healing as much as stacking spell damage. I agree though, they should just make shields stack from max mag and spell damage, so it will be easier to balance.

Anyron

kalunte wrote: »

pool stats are overtuned. both stam and magicka gives too much by themselves: ressource (the more you have, the slower you'll be to reach 0), damage, shields, and healing.

As long as the game remain with such stats that does everything there wont be any balance in the game, whatever tweaks you do over and over.

Stats' role should be clearly identified in the first place before going any further.

why do you think magsorcs have been ruling the entire mags over and over? because they only had to stack magicka on top of more magicka to have the best burst, the best shields, and the best burstheal with a large enough pool to decide if they want to stick to the fight or just run far enough to recover some ressources through streak.

1stat does it all. game over.

Pool stats overtuned?
Weapon damage gives healing, damage and now procset dmg
Does this seem fair to you?

kalunte

No it doesnt. i've been asking for a separated stat for healing and/or crosshealing outside from WD/SP/Magicka and Stamina.

still, Pool stats are a bit more loaded compared to wd and sp.

not all sets scale with sp/wd, there are also sets that deals dmg and scale with mag/stam, as much as some that scales with health even if they do damage.

none of it makes sense to me. never will do.

Anyron

kalunte wrote: »

No it doesnt. i've been asking for a separated stat for healing and/or crosshealing outside from WD/SP/Magicka and Stamina.

still, Pool stats are a bit more loaded compared to wd and sp.

not all sets scale with sp/wd, there are also sets that deals dmg and scale with mag/stam, as much as some that scales with health even if they do damage.

none of it makes sense to me. never will do.

This whole game needs rework. It never make sense to me why stacking magicka or stamina should give you damage. But as long as there are skills that are dependant on max resource pool (wards as one example) its needed.

Even right now when you invest everything to max mag, to have your ward stronger, its paper thin. One skill and its down. For its cost it Isn't good.
You are also hurting your damage by stacking mag instead of spell damage because scaling on it is worse.

Only thing keeping magsorc, only viable mag spec in pvp alive is its mobility. Streak or bol. Take it away and magsorc has no chance at all.


So no, stat pools are not overloaded compared to weapon/spell damage because if it was, everyone will stack it. Only 1 spec out of 12 is doing that.