How much gold are you Losing by pricing at TCC on traders? (Screenshot)

marshill88

I have found that many players simply price their items based on TCC recommended prices, which is very rarely on the low end of that range, and quite often above the range itself. Now, if you had unlimited space on a trader then it makes sense to price items as high as possible, however that is not the case.

Consider this screenshot- this is a trader in a very popular city, one of the prized traders with massive traffic.

• Notice that the iridium on the trader is priced at the high end of TCC, and it has been sitting there for several days. Some of it, more than a week.
• Every day your item sits on a trader is inventory that is stagnant and unavailable to sell something else.
• Pricing an item lower, and having it move faster can easily net higher profits.

Consider this math:
Iridium priced at 13k (low end of TCC) sells the same day. TIME TO SELL: 1
Iridium priced at 16k (high end) takes 10 days. TIME TO SELL: 10

9 days are wasted.

You are using up 9 spots on your daily shelf just to make 3k more gold. Consider that instead, those 9 spots on your shelf could be put to work making a lot more gold generating a sale each day (or more) simply by using lower pricing.

Now for light players who don't play much it makes sense to price on the high end because they don't really mind not having a flow of inventory.

But for other players who really want to make profits from trading, you could be undercutting yourself by maxing out your prices. Keeping inventory moving also helps your guild because they make gold on every sale.

Stagnant items on your guild trader can be costly and even less profitable for your guild. Your guild most likely would rather sell iridium at 13k each on their costly trader and have it move fast, than sit on their trader for 10 days at 16k.

So if you don't care a whole lot about serious trading, ignore everything I said and by all means price high.
But if you are serious about making profit via trading, then consider the idea that any of your items sitting on your trader for more than a few days just might be costing you profits.
This post isn't meant to criticize anyone's sales methods, only to be helpful for those who might not have factored in "time on trader" in their profit calculations.

marshill88

Also, I forgot to mention, as stated by TCC the average price for Iridium across all traders is over 16k! So most players are pricing high, (iridium is just one example, most players price high on nearly everything)....and therefore most players are sitting around with idle inventory.

VaranisArano

I tend to price based on my trader. That is, I look at what items are sitting there and undercut them by a little, or more depending on how long they've been sitting. In the immediate sense, I'm mostly competing with the other listing in my guild, so that's arguably more important than the TTC listings.

I know some people like to treat TTC and MM as Gospel, though I suspect those people are either making quick listings, don't care about moving their inventory as you describe, or haven't really played much with TTC/MM.

For me, TTC and MM are

If it sells for a certain price in the time frame I want it to in my guilds, that's my listing price, no matter what MM or TTC say.

Hawco10

It’s called every day low pricing. Standard practice in retail for years.
TLDR:- sell your stuff lower, increases sales volume=more margin.

marshill88

i guess personally im glad most players price items at TCC upper end because I'm making a killing. I'm the guy getting massive sales volume. So, to all you players out there who price at high end of TCC or even above TCC...thanks

ThorianB

There are many factors i take into consideration when pricing items on the trader. I also never use TTC in game for pricing because it uses a long history which skews current prices. It's more of a pain, but a lot more accurate, to use the website...which is probably intentional by the owner. More clicks, more ad revenue.

zvavi

The point is that if you don't have many things to sell, it is well worth it to sell a bit higher.

Hotdog_23

PC problems. Would be nice if console could get some love in this area. Think this is why a lot of console players want a auction house and most PC players don't.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Narvuntien

If you are a little guild with an out of the way trader you want to list at low prices, often you'll even get resellers snapping up your stuff.

Not everyone is at these high traffic areas that can afford to price that high. Not to mention these traders often have high guild fees in order to keep these traders so while you think you are losing gold you aren't because you are paying lower guild fees.

kargen27

What TTC is good for is determining the rarity of an item. You can see how many listings there have been. There are a lot of repeat listings so the numbers are usually high but you can get an idea. With the Iridium Plating it shows over 5,000 listings. Because of repeats we know it isn't that high but still we can see there is a lot of listings. If you want to sell you are going to have to go low no matter what your location is if you want them to move.

I am in a guild that always gets a trader in a good spot and one that gets a trader occasionally usually in a thieves den or some other remote spot. Location doesn't seem to make as big a difference in what things should be listed for as some people might think. Common items you will want to go low if in a remote area. Rare items people will hunt down wherever they are and you can list those accordingly.

Larcomar

I agree with this in a way - some items just won't sell at upper end of TTC - but equally, I've found that TTC recommended prices can be way below what an item can go for. I read somewhere that it only considers lists the bottom third, and guess some low prices items (or plants) drag that average down. Not sure precisely what's going on, but I know if I list some items at TTC it will sell instantly, almost like someones monitoring and flying around buying stuff up. I can then put the same item on much higher, and it'll still sell within a day. I just don't think any of these add ons are a good guide, and if you've got anything valuable, you need to go do some research. I just look at the vendors in one of the major hubs, and price a bit below that. Seems to work.

16BitForestCat

Larcomar wrote: »

I read somewhere that it only considers lists the bottom third, and guess some low prices items (or plants) drag that average down

This is very true; the TTC creator admitted exactly that in the comments on the TTC page of ESOUI last fall. The so-called "suggested price" is actually the bottom 30% of listings, and even the "average" price is often a significant lowball. Before around October 2020, the addon was showing a more fair average, but the creator tweaked it so it only shows lowball prices now. Creator claims it's because TTC is meant to favor the buyer, but as someone who uses TTC for both fair-priced buying and selling, I've found the lowballing is actually hurting me as both seller and buyer. It's usually impossible to buy items in the bottom 30% the addon preaches as "suggested/average-price deals" because in truth, these are almost always rare deals rather than the norm, so someone's already snapped them up. Meanwhile, as a seller, if I ignore the lowball and price items in a way that's fair to both myself and to potential buyers, the listings tend to sit longer because too many people now mistakenly believe that TTC's pricing in the tooltip is an accurate representation of fair prices across the board, then complain when they can't find items at those prices due to people who recognize their true value snatching them up and relisting.

Sometimes the tooltip is so ridiculously low it's insulting--for example, I listed a motif a few days ago that TTC suggested I sell at about 1K. The so-called "average price" was around 5K. When I went to the TTC site and sorted the listings by price, then looked at the middle pages for more fair pricing recommendation, it said that motif was worth more like 30K. I listed it at 20K, much more of a self-lowball than I'd like, because I was desperate to free up some inventory space and knew it would just sit there at a more fair-to-me selling price. And what do you know, it still sold within hours. Because the 1-5K listings were lowballs that didn't actually reflect the true price of most of the listings. This is not a rare event with TTC these days. I'm about to uininstall the freaking addon. Ugh, but going to the website and manually typing in and sorting listings by price is a hassle. My ESO community conspiracy theory is that the creator planned things this way so more people would go to the TTC site with all its paid ads. I'm honestly just probably going to stop using both the addon and the site and do what many other players do, peeking around the major hubs to see what's fair, even though that's also time-consuming. I miss being able to just look at an in-game tooltip, price accordingly, and still feel like I'm both offering and getting a fair deal.

And because someone usually says "Install trading addons that only show sales from guilds you're in!" I'm afraid those don't work for me. I'm not in high-volume trading guilds because I don't have time or desire to make ESO trading a second job. So only about one item in twelve ever has a listing when I try those addons, even when I set the history back as far as it'll go. Ah, well. All I want to do is buy and sell items in a way that's fair to both me and whoever I'm buying from/selling to, but TTC has actually made that harder than ever in its attempt to manipulate the market into lower prices.

lolo_01b16_ESO

In my experience you can easiely sell most items within a short time at a higher price than TTC suggestions. But then again I mostly sell things that are much rarer than blue quality improvement mats.

danno8

That's a big post for just "lower priced items sell faster".

I don't mean to sound condescending but lowering prices to clear your inventory is as old as commerce itself.

Inaya

ThorianB wrote: »

There are many factors i take into consideration when pricing items on the trader. I also never use TTC in game for pricing because it uses a long history which skews current prices. It's more of a pain, but a lot more accurate, to use the website...which is probably intentional by the owner. More clicks, more ad revenue.

Absolutely this!! Lots of factors to take into account. I will check the TTC site AND I find that more often than not the tool tip is wrong! I will see how many are available and determine my own average. ATT is much better for pricing in my opinion.

Gythral

None
'cos if it dont sell I get no gold... (or at best the pitance the merchants offer)

Brrrofski

16k for an Iridium plating??

Wow, they're never more than 10k on xbox eu. You often see 2 for 18/19k.

TTC probably inflates prices.

People see "oh, I can get 20k for a plating". So they list it. So does someone else. So does someone else. All of a sudden, that's the average price.

People might sell for less for a quick sale, but traders probably buy them for 2k less and put them back up for 20k, as that's now the average price. Also, they now have bought all the low price ones up.

As painful as checking guild stores manually can be, I'm glad we don't have anything like that.

Viewsfrom6ix

Brrrofski wrote: »

16k for an Iridium plating??

Wow, they're never more than 10k on xbox eu. You often see 2 for 18/19k.

TTC probably inflates prices.

People see "oh, I can get 20k for a plating". So they list it. So does someone else. So does someone else. All of a sudden, that's the average price.

People might sell for less for a quick sale, but traders probably buy them for 2k less and put them back up for 20k, as that's now the average price. Also, they now have bought all the low price ones up.

As painful as checking guild stores manually can be, I'm glad we don't have anything like that.

Sorry but TTC does not inflate prices, it does not tell you if an item actually sells for that given price. Prices are completely community driven. The reason why prices are inflated on PC is due to less bots and it is easier to make gold. Like gold to crown ratio is 300:1 compared to console's 80:1. TTC has no impact on the gold to crown ratio but it is because PC players have more gold and is willing to pay more for it.

Some examples why it is easier to make gold on PC:
- add-ons to do daily writs easily and SSDs for faster character switching.
- add-ons to locate resources nodes and treasure chest
- add-ons to filter guild store on profit margin for flipping

jaws343

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

PC problems. Would be nice if console could get some love in this area. Think this is why a lot of console players want a auction house and most PC players don't.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

As a console player, something like TTC would be awful. There is a reason why PC prices are driven up higher than Console prices for gold mats right now. It's because PC players have access to listings prices across traders and lower priced listings are available to see in one location.

luen79rwb17_ESO

The rarity / value of the item is also a key factor in setting up the price.

JoDiMageio

None, since I never use TTC.

ATT allows me to see what my guilds are selling things for on average, since different areas will have different listing prices, which helps set prices for items depending on where my guilds are at.

And I agree with the console players... the way these addons affect the market is problematic. From an economy standpoint, it is not sustainable, but nothing is being done to try to manage the market prices.

furiouslog

TTC does not inflate prices. It uses a "rule of thumb" algorithm to establish the likely selling range that was based on an aggregate of historical sales. It's perfectly fine for times when the market is relatively price stable and it's a commodity item that has a lot of inventory on the traders (like rosin and such). For small inventory items or items that are moving quickly in price, TTC is not really that great to establish a likely sales price.

All of the data that flows through MM, TTC, and ATT have the possibility of being manipulated, skewed, or just inaccurate due to sample size, so all of it needs to be taken in context. For stuff like iridium plating, you can sell faster if you put it a lower price. You can also sell higher and faster if you are in a high foot traffic area, because some people will pay more for convenience/speed.

One of the best things ESO could do is, in lieu of having a global AH, is at least put the posting and sales data into the API to be accessible via a table, but that would probably overwhelm the servers (unless they did a daily offload to another site or something) and it would be one more thing for them to manage if they had a web front end. The benefits are that it would let people know what the real sales price ranges are as well as the effects of location and time, and it would also make some of the potential market manipulation and external third party gold sales more transparent.

AlnilamE

First, I don't use TCC.

Second, I'm not losing any gold, because if I list something, it's at a price point I'm willing to part with the item for.

And sometimes, it's worth the free inventory slot if nothing else.

jaws343

furiouslog wrote: »

TTC does not inflate prices. It uses a "rule of thumb" algorithm to establish the likely selling range that was based on an aggregate of historical sales. It's perfectly fine for times when the market is relatively price stable and it's a commodity item that has a lot of inventory on the traders (like rosin and such). For small inventory items or items that are moving quickly in price, TTC is not really that great to establish a likely sales price.

All of the data that flows through MM, TTC, and ATT have the possibility of being manipulated, skewed, or just inaccurate due to sample size, so all of it needs to be taken in context. For stuff like iridium plating, you can sell faster if you put it a lower price. You can also sell higher and faster if you are in a high foot traffic area, because some people will pay more for convenience/speed.

One of the best things ESO could do is, in lieu of having a global AH, is at least put the posting and sales data into the API to be accessible via a table, but that would probably overwhelm the servers (unless they did a daily offload to another site or something) and it would be one more thing for them to manage if they had a web front end. The benefits are that it would let people know what the real sales price ranges are as well as the effects of location and time, and it would also make some of the potential market manipulation and external third party gold sales more transparent.

It isn't necessarily that TTC inflates prices, it is that tools like that can lead to price inflation by making sales/listings more visible. On console, there is an opportunity cost that requires research, whether that is asking more experienced players, or browsing listings or sales data for your own guilds, to find competitive pricing for an item. It requires effort and knowledge, and that is a good thing for competitive sales. That opportunity cost, including the need to travel everywhere to see the global stock of an item, helps prevent price manipulation and keeps items priced with good deals more readily available in non-hub traders.

Brrrofski

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

16k for an Iridium plating??

Wow, they're never more than 10k on xbox eu. You often see 2 for 18/19k.

TTC probably inflates prices.

People see "oh, I can get 20k for a plating". So they list it. So does someone else. So does someone else. All of a sudden, that's the average price.

People might sell for less for a quick sale, but traders probably buy them for 2k less and put them back up for 20k, as that's now the average price. Also, they now have bought all the low price ones up.

As painful as checking guild stores manually can be, I'm glad we don't have anything like that.

Sorry but TTC does not inflate prices, it does not tell you if an item actually sells for that given price. Prices are completely community driven. The reason why prices are inflated on PC is due to less bots and it is easier to make gold. Like gold to crown ratio is 300:1 compared to console's 80:1. TTC has no impact on the gold to crown ratio but it is because PC players have more gold and is willing to pay more for it.

Some examples why it is easier to make gold on PC:
- add-ons to do daily writs easily and SSDs for faster character switching.
- add-ons to locate resources nodes and treasure chest
- add-ons to filter guild store on profit margin for flipping

I dunno dude. Not many people know the difference between asking price and selling price.

I can't help but think that people easily seeing the average price of something listed will make a lot of them think that it's a good price to list it at.

And why would iridium plating be so high if people do run add ons that show nodes? Wouldn't that lower the price? I bet more people do writs too because of add ons, so surely mat prices would get lower from that too?

I'm not saying that it does cause inflation. I guess I should have said "might inflate" rather than "probably does inflate" in hindsight.

And you're right, console does have more bots for sure (going off complaint threads in the forum). But I'm not sure bots alone set mat prices. Like everyone sells prices at roughly the same, and have done for 3 or 4 years now. Prices have barely changed on all upgrade or housing mats.

furiouslog

jaws343 wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

TTC does not inflate prices. It uses a "rule of thumb" algorithm to establish the likely selling range that was based on an aggregate of historical sales. It's perfectly fine for times when the market is relatively price stable and it's a commodity item that has a lot of inventory on the traders (like rosin and such). For small inventory items or items that are moving quickly in price, TTC is not really that great to establish a likely sales price.

All of the data that flows through MM, TTC, and ATT have the possibility of being manipulated, skewed, or just inaccurate due to sample size, so all of it needs to be taken in context. For stuff like iridium plating, you can sell faster if you put it a lower price. You can also sell higher and faster if you are in a high foot traffic area, because some people will pay more for convenience/speed.

One of the best things ESO could do is, in lieu of having a global AH, is at least put the posting and sales data into the API to be accessible via a table, but that would probably overwhelm the servers (unless they did a daily offload to another site or something) and it would be one more thing for them to manage if they had a web front end. The benefits are that it would let people know what the real sales price ranges are as well as the effects of location and time, and it would also make some of the potential market manipulation and external third party gold sales more transparent.

It isn't necessarily that TTC inflates prices, it is that tools like that can lead to price inflation by making sales/listings more visible. On console, there is an opportunity cost that requires research, whether that is asking more experienced players, or browsing listings or sales data for your own guilds, to find competitive pricing for an item. It requires effort and knowledge, and that is a good thing for competitive sales. That opportunity cost, including the need to travel everywhere to see the global stock of an item, helps prevent price manipulation and keeps items priced with good deals more readily available in non-hub traders.

I'm not sure I follow the logic. How does increasing the effort to research price result in more competitive sales? Increased visibility improves pricing, because people will set prices at where items are most likely to sell given context. If prices rise, it's a function of demand and gold availability, which it should be.

The issue with manipulation on PC is that players/guilds with massive stores of gold use the tools to go around and buy up low items and flip them at higher prices - but things won't sell at the higher prices if people don't think it's worth it or they don't have the gold. Increasing the research burden and disallowing information access creates an environment that is more subject to that kind of manipulation because the wealthy are more likely to invest the time if that is part of the reason they play the game, while average consumers who just want to upgrade gear get stuck unless they want to spend a few hours traveling to every trader looking for deals. You're more likely to find good deals, but most people who don't derive enjoyment from trading just want their stuff, and the likelihood of successfully finding bargains is highly variable.

Viewsfrom6ix

JoDiMageio wrote: »

None, since I never use TTC.

ATT allows me to see what my guilds are selling things for on average, since different areas will have different listing prices, which helps set prices for items depending on where my guilds are at.

And I agree with the console players... the way these addons affect the market is problematic. From an economy standpoint, it is not sustainable, but nothing is being done to try to manage the market prices.

TTC, ATT and MM has been around for a while and the market is quite healthy. I don't find anything at ridiculous market price relative to the existing gold in the game.

What problems are you seeing?

Goregrinder

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

JoDiMageio wrote: »

None, since I never use TTC.

ATT allows me to see what my guilds are selling things for on average, since different areas will have different listing prices, which helps set prices for items depending on where my guilds are at.

And I agree with the console players... the way these addons affect the market is problematic. From an economy standpoint, it is not sustainable, but nothing is being done to try to manage the market prices.

TTC, ATT and MM has been around for a while and the market is quite healthy. I don't find anything at ridiculous market price relative to the existing gold in the game.

What problems are you seeing?

Been playing this game since one of the 2013 betas, and I agree with you...I don't really see the problem.

JKorr

marshill88 wrote: »

I have found that many players simply price their items based on TCC recommended prices, which is very rarely on the low end of that range, and quite often above the range itself. Now, if you had unlimited space on a trader then it makes sense to price items as high as possible, however that is not the case.

Consider this screenshot- this is a trader in a very popular city, one of the prized traders with massive traffic.

• Notice that the iridium on the trader is priced at the high end of TCC, and it has been sitting there for several days. Some of it, more than a week.
• Every day your item sits on a trader is inventory that is stagnant and unavailable to sell something else.
• Pricing an item lower, and having it move faster can easily net higher profits.

Consider this math:
Iridium priced at 13k (low end of TCC) sells the same day. TIME TO SELL: 1
Iridium priced at 16k (high end) takes 10 days. TIME TO SELL: 10

9 days are wasted.

You are using up 9 spots on your daily shelf just to make 3k more gold. Consider that instead, those 9 spots on your shelf could be put to work making a lot more gold generating a sale each day (or more) simply by using lower pricing.

Now for light players who don't play much it makes sense to price on the high end because they don't really mind not having a flow of inventory.

But for other players who really want to make profits from trading, you could be undercutting yourself by maxing out your prices. Keeping inventory moving also helps your guild because they make gold on every sale.

Stagnant items on your guild trader can be costly and even less profitable for your guild. Your guild most likely would rather sell iridium at 13k each on their costly trader and have it move fast, than sit on their trader for 10 days at 16k.

So if you don't care a whole lot about serious trading, ignore everything I said and by all means price high.
But if you are serious about making profit via trading, then consider the idea that any of your items sitting on your trader for more than a few days just might be costing you profits.
This post isn't meant to criticize anyone's sales methods, only to be helpful for those who might not have factored in "time on trader" in their profit calculations.

Since I don't use TTC after seeing how people can use it for less than honest purposes, I'm losing nothing. TTC shows the prices people list items for. You can price carrots at a million gold each, that doesn't mean they'll sell. You just might convince someone else to price their items the same, if they follow TTC.

If you want ballpark figures to use as guidelines to price your items, seeing what items actually sold for is more useful.

JoDiMageio

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

JoDiMageio wrote: »

None, since I never use TTC.

ATT allows me to see what my guilds are selling things for on average, since different areas will have different listing prices, which helps set prices for items depending on where my guilds are at.

And I agree with the console players... the way these addons affect the market is problematic. From an economy standpoint, it is not sustainable, but nothing is being done to try to manage the market prices.

TTC, ATT and MM has been around for a while and the market is quite healthy. I don't find anything at ridiculous market price relative to the existing gold in the game.

What problems are you seeing?

The boom in prices of mats since CP 2.0, is but one example. While I will admit that the anniversary event has brought the market some stability, for a while it was ridiculous what some mats / ingredients were going for (aetherial dust, for example). Random, fixed events like New Life that drives up the price of heartwood is another example. This leads to booms in the market that then create long-lasting changes. I could list off a few more off the top of my head, without doing extensive research on the market, which I am sure would bring up more.

Sure, long-time players can make it work, since they have the gold to follow the market, but new players coming in to the game do not have the resources to do so, and while the market prices have increased, the gold earned by doing different activities has remained relatively the same.

Viewsfrom6ix

JoDiMageio wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

JoDiMageio wrote: »

None, since I never use TTC.

ATT allows me to see what my guilds are selling things for on average, since different areas will have different listing prices, which helps set prices for items depending on where my guilds are at.

And I agree with the console players... the way these addons affect the market is problematic. From an economy standpoint, it is not sustainable, but nothing is being done to try to manage the market prices.

TTC, ATT and MM has been around for a while and the market is quite healthy. I don't find anything at ridiculous market price relative to the existing gold in the game.

What problems are you seeing?

The boom in prices of mats since CP 2.0, is but one example. While I will admit that the anniversary event has brought the market some stability, for a while it was ridiculous what some mats / ingredients were going for (aetherial dust, for example). Random, fixed events like New Life that drives up the price of heartwood is another example. This leads to booms in the market that then create long-lasting changes. I could list off a few more off the top of my head, without doing extensive research on the market, which I am sure would bring up more.

Sure, long-time players can make it work, since they have the gold to follow the market, but new players coming in to the game do not have the resources to do so, and while the market prices have increased, the gold earned by doing different activities has remained relatively the same.

Yeah, that is fair. I think that is the inflation period we sort of experiencing right now.