7.0.1 - No acknowledgement of proc scale feedback?

Jameson18

Not seeing anything in the patch notes. Did I miss it?

Or is it seriously not being at least acknowledged?

jaws343

Usually feedback from Week 1 of the PTS doesn't get taken into account until Week 3 of the PTS. So this is expected.

Luede

Hope it's just too early to fix properly. If they don't fix it I'll be out of the game for sure.

Styxius

Yeah, I was hoping to see these issues more immediately addressed. I am glad for the UI error fixes hopefully that fixes the bar swap issue on the gamepad

LeonAkando

This is Week 1 PTS notes, which always has little to zero balance changes. This is standard. Come back next week, and then even the week after that. If there no change by Week 3, worry.

Personally I think procs scaling off Weapon Damage/Spell Damage needs to be reduced to make them viable in PVE, Stamina/Magicka support scaling desperately needs to be reduced as healers are not going to run 38.5k Magicka anyway.

Health Scaling sets could be used to be nerfed, or at least not count bonus health gained from abilities.. necromancers.

Marcus_Thracius

No
For pve they are great
They will just keep pvp proc free with 19 sets

Vercingetorix

Week 1 is ALWAYS bug fixes and nothing more. If ZoS doesn’t touch the combat changes by week 3, you have your answer and can expect what you see now going Live. The gear scaling is fine on PTS. The highly inflated numbers you are seeing are being blown out of proportion:

- Crimson: 10k tooltip with a HP focus (~45k)
- 10k damage gets cut in half by Battle Spirit
- Further 38% damage reduction from player resistances (typically around 25k resist)

Even if the player doesn’t block (which cuts the damage in half AGAIN), or evade, or root/snare the enemy, they will at worst be taking around 3100 damage every 8 seconds. Any temporary HP boost lasts for at most 20 seconds and can be played around.

jaws343

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Week 1 is ALWAYS bug fixes and nothing more. If ZoS doesn’t touch the combat changes by week 3, you have your answer and can expect what you see now going Live. The gear scaling is fine on PTS. The highly inflated numbers you are seeing are being blown out of proportion:

- Crimson: 10k tooltip with a HP focus (~45k)
- 10k damage gets cut in half by Battle Spirit
- Further 38% damage reduction from player resistances (typically around 25k resist)

Even if the player doesn’t block (which cuts the damage in half AGAIN), or evade, or root/snare the enemy, they will at worst be taking around 3100 damage every 8 seconds. Any temporary HP boost lasts for at most 20 seconds and can be played around.

The problem with Crimson is that even a 10K tooltip is larger than live right now and Crimson is already a problem on live with a lower tooltip. And 45K health is super easy to gain. And on classes/builds that have transformation morphs that provide even more health, those tooltips are insanely overpowered.

Luede

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Week 1 is ALWAYS bug fixes and nothing more. If ZoS doesn’t touch the combat changes by week 3, you have your answer and can expect what you see now going Live. The gear scaling is fine on PTS. The highly inflated numbers you are seeing are being blown out of proportion:

- Crimson: 10k tooltip with a HP focus (~45k)
- 10k damage gets cut in half by Battle Spirit
- Further 38% damage reduction from player resistances (typically around 25k resist)

Even if the player doesn’t block (which cuts the damage in half AGAIN), or evade, or root/snare the enemy, they will at worst be taking around 3100 damage every 8 seconds. Any temporary HP boost lasts for at most 20 seconds and can be played around.

did u ever use procc sets in pvp? there is no "cut in half" by battle spirit

TheDarkRuler

Luede wrote: »

did u ever use procc sets in pvp? there is no "cut in half" by battle spirit

I think he meant that the heal is cut in half. At least i understood it that way.

Jameson18

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Week 1 is ALWAYS bug fixes and nothing more. If ZoS doesn’t touch the combat changes by week 3, you have your answer and can expect what you see now going Live. The gear scaling is fine on PTS. The highly inflated numbers you are seeing are being blown out of proportion:

- Crimson: 10k tooltip with a HP focus (~45k)
- 10k damage gets cut in half by Battle Spirit
- Further 38% damage reduction from player resistances (typically around 25k resist)

Even if the player doesn’t block (which cuts the damage in half AGAIN), or evade, or root/snare the enemy, they will at worst be taking around 3100 damage every 8 seconds. Any temporary HP boost lasts for at most 20 seconds and can be played around.

10k is higher than current live. That's a problem.

Also, 45k hp is easy to get.

Have you watched the videos from other threads? Really look at them without being dismissive. The sacrifice is minimal if not unnoticeable altogether and Kristofer/JD's is, as he pointed out, without a malacath.

It's not just a "cry wolf that the sky is falling" scenario. There's actual, abundant, gameplay evidence of these things being stacked up.


Totally understand week 1 just being bug fixes though. I guess I was just expecting faster action to counter the speed at which exploitation gaps were discovered without any real analysis required.

Sandman929

I can appreciate no changes in week 2, but wouldn't it be nice if there were some conversation basically saying "Hey, we're picking up what you're putting down and we expect to makes some changes to A, B and C in week 3"

As always with ZOS, they just can't seem to get the hang of communicating effectively.

Jameson18

Sandman929 wrote: »

I can appreciate no changes in week 2, but wouldn't it be nice if there were some conversation basically saying "Hey, we're picking up what you're putting down and we expect to makes some changes to A, B and C in week 3"

This. Exactly this.

At least acknowledge it?

ManDraKE

tell me you havent tested anything on the PTS, witouth telling me you havent tested anything on the PTS:

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Week 1 is ALWAYS bug fixes and nothing more. If ZoS doesn’t touch the combat changes by week 3, you have your answer and can expect what you see now going Live. The gear scaling is fine on PTS. The highly inflated numbers you are seeing are being blown out of proportion:

- Crimson: 10k tooltip with a HP focus (~45k)
- 10k damage gets cut in half by Battle Spirit
- Further 38% damage reduction from player resistances (typically around 25k resist)

Even if the player doesn’t block (which cuts the damage in half AGAIN), or evade, or root/snare the enemy, they will at worst be taking around 3100 damage every 8 seconds. Any temporary HP boost lasts for at most 20 seconds and can be played around.

I can hit twice that damage number with crimson on LIVE, on PTS i could easily increase that damage by 50% withouth too much effort. You need to test some stuff before making bold claims.

/facepalm

JerBearESO

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Week 1 is ALWAYS bug fixes and nothing more. If ZoS doesn’t touch the combat changes by week 3, you have your answer and can expect what you see now going Live. The gear scaling is fine on PTS. The highly inflated numbers you are seeing are being blown out of proportion:

- Crimson: 10k tooltip with a HP focus (~45k)
- 10k damage gets cut in half by Battle Spirit
- Further 38% damage reduction from player resistances (typically around 25k resist)

Even if the player doesn’t block (which cuts the damage in half AGAIN), or evade, or root/snare the enemy, they will at worst be taking around 3100 damage every 8 seconds. Any temporary HP boost lasts for at most 20 seconds and can be played around.

I don't think you are thinking this through.... The problem is that the proc scaling GOAL was to nerf proc cheese, not procs as a whole, and the RESULT was that it drastically buffs proc cheese WHILE hard nerfing procs as a whole. Is this really "fine" as you say? Nope....

We need to see definite solution or at LEAST full abandonment of proc scaling by week 3. Otherwise, ESO will be losing a large portion of their playerbase. I certainly won't stick around....

neferpitou73

Eh, I'd give them a few weeks to adjust it. Although acknowledgement would be nice.

Honestly they just needed to tone down a few sets, not change the entire system. With these changes I wouldn't be surprised if we see entire ball groups running almost solely off proc damage. I've started working on a few comps with that idea.

Firstmep

Luede wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Week 1 is ALWAYS bug fixes and nothing more. If ZoS doesn’t touch the combat changes by week 3, you have your answer and can expect what you see now going Live. The gear scaling is fine on PTS. The highly inflated numbers you are seeing are being blown out of proportion:

- Crimson: 10k tooltip with a HP focus (~45k)
- 10k damage gets cut in half by Battle Spirit
- Further 38% damage reduction from player resistances (typically around 25k resist)

Even if the player doesn’t block (which cuts the damage in half AGAIN), or evade, or root/snare the enemy, they will at worst be taking around 3100 damage every 8 seconds. Any temporary HP boost lasts for at most 20 seconds and can be played around.

did u ever use procc sets in pvp? there is no "cut in half" by battle spirit

Yes there is, lol. Let's not spread misinformation...

Thannazzar

jaws343 wrote: »

Usually feedback from Week 1 of the PTS doesn't get taken into account until Week 3 of the PTS. So this is expected.

If it is taken into account at all, historically very little pts feedback is acknowledged and even less results in any change. Realistically apart from bugs and calc errors expect no major changes between the first pts patch and the live release.

relentless_turnip

Firstmep wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Week 1 is ALWAYS bug fixes and nothing more. If ZoS doesn’t touch the combat changes by week 3, you have your answer and can expect what you see now going Live. The gear scaling is fine on PTS. The highly inflated numbers you are seeing are being blown out of proportion:

- Crimson: 10k tooltip with a HP focus (~45k)
- 10k damage gets cut in half by Battle Spirit
- Further 38% damage reduction from player resistances (typically around 25k resist)

Even if the player doesn’t block (which cuts the damage in half AGAIN), or evade, or root/snare the enemy, they will at worst be taking around 3100 damage every 8 seconds. Any temporary HP boost lasts for at most 20 seconds and can be played around.

did u ever use procc sets in pvp? there is no "cut in half" by battle spirit

Yes there is, lol. Let's not spread misinformation...

There is a cut in half of all damage via damage received. This stacks multiplicatively with any other mitigation.

JerBearESO

Firstmep wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Week 1 is ALWAYS bug fixes and nothing more. If ZoS doesn’t touch the combat changes by week 3, you have your answer and can expect what you see now going Live. The gear scaling is fine on PTS. The highly inflated numbers you are seeing are being blown out of proportion:

- Crimson: 10k tooltip with a HP focus (~45k)
- 10k damage gets cut in half by Battle Spirit
- Further 38% damage reduction from player resistances (typically around 25k resist)

Even if the player doesn’t block (which cuts the damage in half AGAIN), or evade, or root/snare the enemy, they will at worst be taking around 3100 damage every 8 seconds. Any temporary HP boost lasts for at most 20 seconds and can be played around.

did u ever use procc sets in pvp? there is no "cut in half" by battle spirit

Yes there is, lol. Let's not spread misinformation...

the cut in half is for damage altogether, thereby including proc damage. but to say there is a cut in half for procs, that by itself may be misunderstand to be an additional cut in half

jaws343

Thannazzar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Usually feedback from Week 1 of the PTS doesn't get taken into account until Week 3 of the PTS. So this is expected.

If it is taken into account at all, historically very little pts feedback is acknowledged and even less results in any change. Realistically apart from bugs and calc errors expect no major changes between the first pts patch and the live release.

Sure, but this exact thread happens 4 times a year and really, it is shocking that people haven't figured out by now that Patch 2 of the PTS is not going to include any major changes.

Ishtharo

Jameson18 wrote: »

Not seeing anything in the patch notes. Did I miss it?

Or is it seriously not being at least acknowledged?

You should know by now, that those changes to procs, if they are coming, will release in 0.2 and 0.3 PTS notes. We've been doing this for many years now, and that tends to be their pattern.

GRXRG

jaws343 wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Usually feedback from Week 1 of the PTS doesn't get taken into account until Week 3 of the PTS. So this is expected.

If it is taken into account at all, historically very little pts feedback is acknowledged and even less results in any change. Realistically apart from bugs and calc errors expect no major changes between the first pts patch and the live release.

Sure, but this exact thread happens 4 times a year and really, it is shocking that people haven't figured out by now that Patch 2 of the PTS is not going to include any major changes.

This is true, but it is also clear that devs do no play pvp, and with this pts patch note they confirmed it.

Yeah probably they will raise the caps of the stats like many people said.

But all they do when balance is hearing out opinions in the forum, from youtubers, check what people complain the most (unless it's stamden or stamcro) and find a random solution which in theory is nice, scaling was a pretty smart idea, but then applied to the sets resulted in a serious buff to all procs to a point of being beyond broken level, and this clearly shows they don't play pvp at all.

Now they for sure heard us, and they will rise the caps, hopefully making procs almost dead same as dots, this is what i am hoping for, that you have to build too much into a direction that you have a serious drawback.

Jameson18

Ishtharo wrote: »

Jameson18 wrote: »

Not seeing anything in the patch notes. Did I miss it?

Or is it seriously not being at least acknowledged?

You should know by now, that those changes to procs, if they are coming, will release in 0.2 and 0.3 PTS notes. We've been doing this for many years now, and that tends to be their pattern.

Apologies. Only been in game for 13 months. Forums for far less. I was withholding any kind of judgement until I've seen more than 1 chapter release. (Blackwood will be my 2nd)


Thanks,

Sandman929

Everyone talking about the usual pattern..yes, week 2 is usually light and we expect some changes in week 3-4. This is the pattern.
What is also the pattern is that ZOS starts the PTS and asks for feedback. They proceed to say nothing at all about the feedback for 2 weeks at least until they release another patch with whatever changes they, silently, decided upon based on the feedback and amazingly the players have some new feedback based on those changes.
Because there is no back and forth at all, and ZOS refuses to communicate what the Devs think about the issues players bring up, this wastes a tremendous amount of the PTS cycle and always results in final changes that still have a lot of problems.

Wait 2 weeks before even giving a sneak peak of the second draft and there is rarely time for a third draft.

FrancisCrawford

jaws343 wrote: »

Usually feedback from Week 1 of the PTS doesn't get taken into account until Week 3 of the PTS. So this is expected.

More precisely, balance feedback is treated that way.

The first week, ZoS rushes to fix minor bugs.

Mahabahabtha

From The Studio Director Letter:

https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387

"This is an ongoing process—and remember that we are usually working on updates six months or more before they launch, so when we started WFH in March, we were already working on Q3 and Q4 content, which led to the issues outlined above. We now have planned for the team working remotely for roughly the first half of 2021, so the "introduce fewer new systems" program will continue throughout 2021."

So CP 2.0 was only a "Minor Change"

omg...

what will happen when they will change things in the LARGE Scale ?????

oh wait...here they come...

neferpitou73

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

So CP 2.0 was only a "Minor Change"

omg...

what will happen when they will change things in the LARGE Scale ?????

Well that's disturbing...

Mahabahabtha

Jodynn

Proc scaling is a good thing

Jameson18

Jodynn wrote: »

Proc scaling is a good thing

I'm fairly certain most of us agree.

I think the issue is to what level they are scaling. Its a linear scale setup, but I believe another thread has data showing an upward curve at post "requirement" and beyond. A bit problematic.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/571653/proc-value-calculation#latest