Light armor not viable in PvP.

ksbrugh

Light armor needs a change to stay, (sorry) I mean be viable in PVP.

I have a fix. I don't see why ZOS didn't see it.
Light and medium armor should have cross changes that would fix a lot of balancing issues.

Light armor penalties (increase damage taken from martial attacks by 1%). This is overkill with light armor already being the weakest in the game. This should be changed to 1 to 2% more damage to Shields not the armor itself.
(Concentration) should include physical and spell penetration and in return the medium armor (agility) should boost spell damage as well as weapon damage by 2%.
This would open the field for greater build opportunity. And hopefully make light armor playable again in PvP. Except for magic sorcerer of course.

Ocelot9x

Playing a magdk and having no problems with light armor, feels solid, the problem is the class itself

lQrukl

Battle spirit should grant you x2 penetration, so light armour would be viable, having 20k pen against enemies with 45k+ armour is just a bad joke.

ksbrugh

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Playing a magdk and having no problems with light armor, feels solid, the problem is the class itself

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you. Maybe you have found your niche to make it work, but I'm a well seasoned player since the inception of PVP to ESO and I have two magic Dks and two stam DKs 1 for PvP 1 for PVE. I can 1vX on my stam dk and only 1v3 maybe 4 if I get lucky on magDk. And before you say it, no stam is not my go to. I prefer magic classes over stam so I'm used to magic and more comfortable with magic but I do better and succeed more often on a stam class in PvP. it seems to be much stronger, better heals, even if you are a beginner it is much more forgiving allowing you to make more mistakes and still survive.
I do not believe stam should be nerfed I just believe light armor magic classes are not yet up to par with the rest of eso.
My suggested changes to the light and medium armor would bring about I believe what ESO wanted in the beginning. You have seen all the artwork, a sword in one hand and a ball of fire or lightning in the other hand.
IMO ESO is about diversity it should be more mix and match than it is presently. The reason I fell in love with this game and I'm sure plenty of others, is build diversity and theory crafting. Theory crafting keeps people interested and playing both PVE and PVP to support their habit. Win win for us and Zos

master_vanargand

Really?
Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil are full of magicka builds.

ksbrugh

master_vanargand wrote: »

Really?
Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil are full of magicka builds.

Yes and that's why I average 28 kills per match on my stam dk and stam sorc usually no more than one death, and that's usually from another stam class. I've even had in the mid 30s on kills. But On my magic builds I average 10 or 15 kills rarely mid 20 s but my deaths are also greater around 5 to 6 and they are usually from stam classes so. I don't see the harm in more versatility. It's not a nerf to stam classes maybe even a slight buff to stam with the extra penetration it would gain.
Don't come at this as a stam lover or a magic lover look at it with open eyes it would be better for the game and players in general. It would allow more diversity and better builds from Stam and magic class builds

Sluggy

Perhaps you should consider that the way you prefer to play is not in line with what light armor has to offer? I assure most ball groups and many duo and solo players are doing just fine with light armor right now. The current live patch might be the first time in a very long time that medium is actually useful.

As for the PTS itself, there are much *much* bigger concerns. Don't worry.. you want 6 pieces of light with 40k armor and 20-25k proc tooltips? We got you covered fam.

Lughlongarm

Light armor buffs and penalties are more or less designed to be balanced with Heavy Armor buffs and penalties.
If you don't go for the Light armor skill, just go 4 light and 3 heavy.

Sheuib

I had to go with 4 light and 3 heavy to balance out the negatives. I play a magicka templar so all my attacks are in melee range. I haven't tried full light armor setup since the last patch but I couldn't imagine trying to deal with taking 7% extra damage on top of having low resistances.

JerBearESO

ksbrugh wrote: »

Light armor needs a change to stay, (sorry) I mean be viable in PVP.

I have a fix. I don't see why ZOS didn't see it.
Light and medium armor should have cross changes that would fix a lot of balancing issues.

Light armor penalties (increase damage taken from martial attacks by 1%). This is overkill with light armor already being the weakest in the game. This should be changed to 1 to 2% more damage to Shields not the armor itself.
(Concentration) should include physical and spell penetration and in return the medium armor (agility) should boost spell damage as well as weapon damage by 2%.
This would open the field for greater build opportunity. And hopefully make light armor playable again in PvP. Except for magic sorcerer of course.

I like the idea of working out hybrid buffs with Concentration and Agility as you say

As for the whole idea of increasing damage taken to a damage type for wearing a type of armor, this is actually what I refer to as "predetermined counterplay" which I also include to be within the realm of what I refer to as "antiplay". Counterplay should never happen before the gameplay has.... A counterplay situation should only ever be the result of active gameplay, so these kinds of counterplay stats are a bad thing IMO. They should just be removed altogether

divnyi

Remove magica weakness and physical weakness from armors altogether. It is not healthy for PvP. All the mages I see in BGs either wear heavy or have 8 deaths per game.

Sheuib

lQrukl wrote: »

Battle spirit should grant you x2 penetration, so light armour would be viable, having 20k pen against enemies with 45k+ armour is just a bad joke.

Anyone pushing 45k+ armor values is severely limiting themselves on damage. Maybe that changes with the new antiquity head piece coming out. Or, if they are depending on Balorgh to get kills then you just avoid them for 20s.

Basically, anyone that has one of those unkillable builds also have no damage. I just use them for ulti generation while their friends come back to get killed again.

It does cause a problem when you have several unkillable builds that are well coordinated. Even their little damage can kill a single person when combined.

Sangwyne

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Light armor buffs and penalties are more or less designed to be balanced with Heavy Armor buffs and penalties.
If you don't go for the Light armor skill, just go 4 light and 3 heavy.

Ok, but how is Medium armor having absolutely zero penalties while also having more damage from scaling weapon damage, more mobility, and more armor than Light considered balanced? Along with Stamina already being the meta and now dealing increased damage against Light builds despite Light already taking the most damage due to having the least armor? Seems like Medium armor and Stamina builds especially were given preferential treatment, but no one seems to be making a fuss about that in PvP because they're likely all playing Stamina builds anyway.

Not a fan of Magicka or Health builds having to take some Stamina as an offstat just to be able to compete when Stamina can just stack their main stat and get damage, healing, and shielding from skills, mobility from rolling and sprinting, stealth, and mitigation from rolling, blocking, and breaking free, along with healing from procs now too, all from one stat. No other build gets so much for so little investment, with zero penalties on their armor type. Asking Stamina players which type of builds should receive buffs or nerfs in PvP is always going to end up exactly as you'd think.

Where are the tradeoffs that everyone else has to make?

lQrukl

Anyone pushing 45k+ armor values is severely limiting themselves on damage.

Anyone pushing 20k+ mag pen is limiting themselves on survivability much harder.

Xargas13

I ditched light armor after the change. I reached pretty good damage on all heavy armor n 2 light, damage in light armor is not worth it, since I play magcro, I need time to build up my damage, and I can't do that because in light armor I die almost instantly. They need to increase power of armor ability or something, also increase damage when light armor is worn, because fights are short, and usually that facerolling tank is going to get better of you...

oscarovegren

Sheuib wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Battle spirit should grant you x2 penetration, so light armour would be viable, having 20k pen against enemies with 45k+ armour is just a bad joke.

Anyone pushing 45k+ armor values is severely limiting themselves on damage. Maybe that changes with the new antiquity head piece coming out. Or, if they are depending on Balorgh to get kills then you just avoid them for 20s.

Basically, anyone that has one of those unkillable builds also have no damage. I just use them for ulti generation while their friends come back to get killed again.

It does cause a problem when you have several unkillable builds that are well coordinated. Even their little damage can kill a single person when combined.

You just needs bloodspawn, nord and physical armor pots to reach 40k on both resistances on stamDK/stamplar for example

oscarovegren

The issue is that the difference between light armor and heavy armor builds in terms of damage is very small, close to nothing with malacath but survival is way higher in heavy armor in this martial damage meta (martial dmg mitigation, extra health, extra % mitigation when CC immune, extra passive resist and extra base armor resist)

ResidentContrarian

oscarovegren wrote: »

The issue is that the difference between light armor and heavy armor builds in terms of damage is very small, close to nothing with malacath but survival is way higher in heavy armor in this martial damage meta (martial dmg mitigation, extra health, extra % mitigation when CC immune, extra passive resist and extra base armor resist)

True, in my builds light armor's penetration is not even important. I only wear light on a mag build in PvP for crit and sustain - two things ZOS keeps nerfing and making it harder and harder not to justify heavy.

The increased damage penalty means that in PvP, realistically, you simply get 1 or 2 shot by a tanky player most of the time, and to handle them you need to use a tactical approach and still expend much more effort than they do.

The difference between damage and defense in the game is too much, and it shows anytime there is either a group or when proc sets enter the equation.

This PTS cycle ZOS now introduced an overloaded defensive mythic that makes that gulf even wider between LA and other armor types, and somehow there are some people on the forums that are defending it with the tired lines "its supposed be strong, it's a mythic..hurr" or some other variation.

It's crazy, because all it will do is just make players simply not PvP, when PvP is already dying.

Whenever I log in and PvP in BGs or Cyro it is not a fun experience. It's not fun because reaction-based gameplay cannot and should not be expected in the game environment, when the environment cannot support it properly (lag, skill bugs, position bugs, powercreep, poor balance, etc.).

And yet, that is exactly how light armor has been balanced. No, that is how the game is being balanced: with the expectation that you will always be able to reactively defend against a 1-2 shot build.

The only problem is that 1-2 shot builds are not exclusive to light armor, not exclusive to medium either. In fact, there probably isn't any mag build in LA that can 1-2 shot anyone, even another user in LA no matter how much offensive stats you are stacking. Can't even do it with ults included, unless the person is AFK.

Yet, that is what the develops probably imagine. Is it any surprise balance isn't getting better?

Draevik

oscarovegren wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Battle spirit should grant you x2 penetration, so light armour would be viable, having 20k pen against enemies with 45k+ armour is just a bad joke.

Anyone pushing 45k+ armor values is severely limiting themselves on damage. Maybe that changes with the new antiquity head piece coming out. Or, if they are depending on Balorgh to get kills then you just avoid them for 20s.

Basically, anyone that has one of those unkillable builds also have no damage. I just use them for ulti generation while their friends come back to get killed again.

It does cause a problem when you have several unkillable builds that are well coordinated. Even their little damage can kill a single person when combined.

You just needs bloodspawn, nord and physical armor pots to reach 40k on both resistances on stamDK/stamplar for example

Bloodspawn is not a good example. I watched combat metrics for about 20 BG matches and Bloodspawn averaged a 23% uptime. Which is kind of bad imo. Not reliable. And why in the world would you not use the Stamplar armor buff??? That gives a lot of stam regen.

oscarovegren

Draevik wrote: »

oscarovegren wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Battle spirit should grant you x2 penetration, so light armour would be viable, having 20k pen against enemies with 45k+ armour is just a bad joke.

Anyone pushing 45k+ armor values is severely limiting themselves on damage. Maybe that changes with the new antiquity head piece coming out. Or, if they are depending on Balorgh to get kills then you just avoid them for 20s.

Basically, anyone that has one of those unkillable builds also have no damage. I just use them for ulti generation while their friends come back to get killed again.

It does cause a problem when you have several unkillable builds that are well coordinated. Even their little damage can kill a single person when combined.

You just needs bloodspawn, nord and physical armor pots to reach 40k on both resistances on stamDK/stamplar for example

Bloodspawn is not a good example. I watched combat metrics for about 20 BG matches and Bloodspawn averaged a 23% uptime. Which is kind of bad imo. Not reliable. And why in the world would you not use the Stamplar armor buff??? That gives a lot of stam regen.

I didn´t thought I had to mention that I always of course use major resolve.

Bloodspawn has great uptime while being defensive. You mention overall BG where you aren´t targeted the majority of the time