Buff Magblade. Please.

Raeyleigh

Many posts were made on this issue, atleast 1 per patch. Im going to add another one.
Magblade has become the single worst pvp spec. The last decent patch the class had was Elsweyr, since then its sharply going downhill only.

The two classes that are most comparable to it are Magsorc and Stamblade, which are both infinitly better than Magblade. Magsorc didnt see a bad patch since ages, and after elsweyr nerfs Stamblade was buffed patch after patch to ensure it is a good pvp spec once again. Magblade had no such privilige.
The only thing Magblade can do well in pvp is bombing and ganking with several proc sets. Imagine the outcry if the only viable playstyle for Stamblades was snipe ganking.
And depending on how the proccset changes on the pts play out it might just be bombing soon.

This isnt even a case similiar to Magden or Magcro, who were released with lacking and incomplete kits for pvp purposes. In theory Magblade still has a complete ability kit and once upon a time Magblade was a good spec in pvp. It is just that everything was ripped away from this class. Hollowed out, leaving but an empty husk of its former self behind this class had everything taken away from it. Except permanent invisibility of course, out of all the things that were removed this just had to stay...
And many of these relentless nerfs were due to pve. Dont ever let one of those "muh pvp nerfs affect pve" apes cry you a river, just slap them this class's fate right in the face.
Even now, on the pts the singular change to the nightblade class is a nerf to darkcloak, an ability primarily used by nonexistant nightblade tanks and a few magblades. For the meme i guess.

Im going to be constructive and add a list of possible changes that would buff pvp magblade to be viable without further buffing pve magblade or in general stamblades.

-Soul harvest: Add a stun at 120 ult just like incap. Ideally remove the cast time, from this and infact every other ult. Nobody asked for it back then and to this day nobody likes it either.
-Impale: Remove travel time. Ideally make the ability scale down from 50% health similiar to executioner.
-Teleport strike: Remove the hidden cast time, remove the second los check.
-Reapers mark: Add minor breach. stamblades already have it, infact every stamina class has it now plus its also on pierce armor. It would be a decent reason to use this instead of ele drain.

-Consuming darkness: Literally the worst ultimate in the game since major buffs were nerfed. Wasnt used even before that. Just rework it.
-Concealed weapon: Increase the movement speed in stealth buff to 40%. This will add back a portion of the mobility that was lost for this playstyle.
-Dark cloak: Reduce the cost. You have to recast it every 8 seconds for your Major Resolve passive anyways and the skill costs too much for how little it does.
-Refreshing path: Make it wider and make the hot stay for 4 seconds after leaving it.
-Mass hysteria: Add back the slow at the very least. Minor breach or a 2 second root are also good options.

-Soul tether: Remove the ult cast time. Infact, remove cast times from every ult in the game. I already mentioned it once.
-Swallow soul: No longer a projectile and undodgeable. So many things have become undodgeable, might aswell just add it to that list. Instantly solves the problem of an utterly unreliable offensive kit without taking any counterplay away from the big hits.
-Shrewd Offering: Can now affect the caster himself. Nobody uses this morph and magblade is in dire need of a good defensive heal. Alternativly buff the crap out of Healing ward.
-Cripple: Increase the projectile speed significantly. Ideally this skill needs major expedition back.
-Siphoning strikes: Put Major brutality and sorcery on this ability and its morphs. It makes 0 sense on the Drain Power skill. Stamblades use Momentum for its heal already anyways.
-Sap Essence: Make the heal increase by 100% per target hit instead of 20%. In turn remove the heal to allies function.

None of these changes by itself would fix the class. I recommend all of them at once. Nothing in there is outrageous or unique.

Pauls

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Shrewd Offering: Can now affect the caster himself. Nobody uses this morph and magblade is in dire need of a good defensive heal.

Dont get it, you want self heal that cost health, i.e. infinite self healing skill?

Noctus

Pauls wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Shrewd Offering: Can now affect the caster himself. Nobody uses this morph and magblade is in dire need of a good defensive heal.

Dont get it, you want self heal that cost health, i.e. infinite self healing skill?

its magblade anything goes. its rly in such a bad spot u cant possibly buff it up to par with sorc or necro.

Raeyleigh

Pauls wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Shrewd Offering: Can now affect the caster himself. Nobody uses this morph and magblade is in dire need of a good defensive heal.

Dont get it, you want self heal that cost health, i.e. infinite self healing skill?

I wouldnt mind at all if they increased the health cost further or added a magicka cost to it in return. Magblades will take literally anything at this point.
Currently the only way to heal yourself up rather than hard resetting the fight with a well placed shade or spamming cloak is to use Dampen magic + Healing ward, which is just a bad imitation of what a Magsorc can do with 3 shields and exacerbates the problem of very tight bar space for the class. A single shield doesnt suffice.

Arkew

Raeyleigh wrote: »

-Shrewd Offering: Can now affect the caster himself. Nobody uses this morph and magblade is in dire need of a good defensive heal.

no worry to say that but this skill is perfectly fine, i you think not go look that
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/768353331086431609/BF646B861C82ED86B9434446BC6B19DFC742998C/.

thanks to not annoy healblade for your magblade buff ^^ .

Raeyleigh

Arkew wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

-Shrewd Offering: Can now affect the caster himself. Nobody uses this morph and magblade is in dire need of a good defensive heal.

no worry to say that but this skill is perfectly fine, i you think not go look that
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/768353331086431609/BF646B861C82ED86B9434446BC6B19DFC742998C/.

thanks to not annoy healblade for your magblade buff ^^ .

Thats why we were gifted 2 morphs of each ability my dude. Most healblades use the healthy offering morph.
Besides i'd count it as a direct buff to healblades if they could heal themselves with their own burstheal like all other classes.

exeeter702

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Raeyleigh wrote: »

-Shrewd Offering: Can now affect the caster himself. Nobody uses this morph and magblade is in dire need of a good defensive heal.

no worry to say that but this skill is perfectly fine, i you think not go look that
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/768353331086431609/BF646B861C82ED86B9434446BC6B19DFC742998C/.

thanks to not annoy healblade for your magblade buff ^^ .

Thats why we were gifted 2 morphs of each ability my dude. Most healblades use the healthy offering morph.
Besides i'd count it as a direct buff to healblades if they could heal themselves with their own burstheal like all other classes.

The point is that magblades (healblades included) are in need of a reliable method to save themsleves beyond running away with shade and cloak. If you give shrewd a magicka cost and make it self target only (it would need magicka cost as health cost would break the skill and make it an infinite self heal) then you are effectively gating off healblades from a defensive buff that they need because healthy offering morph is literally the best single target burst heal in the game, in terms of functionality (goes through los and ignores elevation) and in terms of tool tip value when slotted on an actual healer setup magblade. Healthy offering makes healblades, and provides them 100 percent uptime on minor mending and allows them to have full use of ult gen passive if they arnet using swallow soul (overcasting cripple and siphoning attacks is not an option, and sap essence is trash).

Shrewd does need a change, but making it a critical self defense button completely screws over healblades, especially in light of the dark cloak nerd. Magblades dont need a self target burst heal, they need their once had potent ability to float their health with strong hots and utility like minor vit on swallow soul, they need their attrition playstyle / strength back. High damage stealth based builds dont need a one button self burst heal to reset a fight everytime they escape. Dark cloak needed a major buff to it's hot value for builds with less than 35k hp. This is the compromise needed, take the brawling defensive ability that keeps in a fight kiting and duking it out / healing allies, or take the stealth option for high burst potential.

Hell adjust the old agony to make more sense in the current game and put it back in where shrewd is now and throw major sorc on it or minor int while slotted idk.. but do not price healers out of a defensive buff by forcing them to chose between it and their primary pvp lifeline for healing allies.

The main issue I have seen for so mnay years on here is that for every thread made about what magblade needs, there is a different idea of what magblade is "supposed to be".

And for what its worth, it's not a terrible idea to add a slow heal to shadowy disguise to allow magblades the option to divorce themslevs from the resto staff for regen. The self heal should be lengthy though. The design philosophy there is that if you fully escape from an encounter to reset, your opponent is provided time to recover as well or you can re open on them with less health as a risk vs reward dynamic. But in no way should magblades have a potent self burst heal simultaneously while having (near) limitless uptime/access to shadowy disguise. And yes this all hinges on the reliance on cloak being functional with is a separate topic entirely.

ResidentContrarian

Hate to say it, but pretty sure no other class can reach the healing tooltips of magblade...though healing and avoiding damage is pretty much all it's good for if you are not slotting certain procs.

I think the main reason it won't get buffed is because of procs and because of cloak. Similar to how templar is kept down because of Breath of Life/Honor the Dead, even though other classes have "mechanics" or skills that are far more powerful these days.

I doubt that magblade will get buffed without adjusting cloak so that it can't be spammed or offers near-absolute defense. If not, the patches after it's buff will nerf the class hard.

Raeyleigh

exeeter702 wrote: »

The main issue I have seen for so mnay years on here is that for every thread made about what magblade needs, there is a different idea of what magblade is "supposed to be".

Unlike certain classes which pretty much always play the same unless you deliberatly go for something wild there is many different versions of magblades in pvp.
Bombblade, Gankblade, Healblade, Brawlerblade, Mageblade, Saptank, full meele, full ranged, meele ranged hybrid, dark cloak vs shadowy disguise, max stat stacking vs procs...
Not every Magblade out there plays the same and everyone thinks they need a different buff to be viable. Disagreements are bound to happen.

Without a reliable burst heal option brawlerblade is not good enough because dampen and healing ward are not good enough and buffs to those would benefit magsorc disproportionatly more, who dont need these buffs.
If shrewd offering can heal the user himself then it needs either a magicka cost or increased health cost to not be problematic.
Healblades would get the choice between the current healthy offering as it is, which is stronger but requires them to use dampen/shield ally for themselves and kite more, or the more generic shrewd offering, losing the 8% healing buff and making sustain worse for the benefit of having a blockcastable burstheal for better self defense.
Stamblades already have the ability to crit a momentum in cloak/shade and instantly heal to full while reseting the fight. There is a short "cooldown" to it, but then again they can also spam dodgerolls much more. Thus i dont see a spammable burstheal being as problematic for magblades who spam invisibility.

I have to say im also of the opinion that cloak should have a 33% cost increase per cast similiar to dodgeroll and streak. But i wouldnt push that unless zos can finally fix cloak to properly work for good. That skill is broken every second patch.
Atleast that way the class can finally become more than just "oneshots from stealth".

Doczy

[snip] i can say " they dont care "

they will never buff magblade.

because of that you must get new strategy

try to get nerf other classes

[Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Actions]

Zabulus

Don't expect any buff ... They don't give a s... about this class/spec.

Flaaklypa

Magblade has become a problem in pvp lately. It has a very strong single target damage ability that also HEALS them, it has the best ult, which provides majo defile for only 75 ult, and arguably the best healing and mitigation in the game. Why mitigation? Answer is simple; shade. Well placed shade will result in permanent and 100% damage mitigation and it allows for little to no counterplay. Its healing, blessing of protection as well as dark cloak provides far too much for any experienced player to kill solo.

Faded

Flaaklypa wrote: »

Magblade has become a problem in pvp lately. It has a very strong single target damage ability that also HEALS them, it has the best ult, which provides majo defile for only 75 ult, and arguably the best healing and mitigation in the game. Why mitigation? Answer is simple; shade. Well placed shade will result in permanent and 100% damage mitigation and it allows for little to no counterplay. Its healing, blessing of protection as well as dark cloak provides far too much for any experienced player to kill solo.

Any experienced player, huh. That's a lot of people.

It'll be great to see all those nerf magblade threads again. It's been years.

Raeyleigh

Flaaklypa wrote: »

Magblade has become a problem in pvp lately. It has a very strong single target damage ability that also HEALS them, it has the best ult, which provides majo defile for only 75 ult, and arguably the best healing and mitigation in the game. Why mitigation? Answer is simple; shade. Well placed shade will result in permanent and 100% damage mitigation and it allows for little to no counterplay. Its healing, blessing of protection as well as dark cloak provides far too much for any experienced player to kill solo.

You heard the man. His description is beyond accurate. For far too long have overpowered Magblades terrorized the pvp community. Nerf them all i say!
Then we can finally talk about long overdue buffs for stamdens and necros.

Sergykid

what? nightblades can not die if played correctly. Shade has no counter, cloak is insane (both morphs).

IAmIcehouse

Yes magblades needs work but these suggestions do nothing to making it viable

-Concealed weapon: Increase the movement speed in stealth buff to 40%
this is unnecessary, it doesn't increase it's strengths in combat nor cover it's weaknesses
-Dark cloak: Reduce the cost. You have to recast it every 8 seconds for your Major Resolve passive anyways and the skill costs too much for how little it does.
No. Dark cloak is arguably the best source of major resolve in the game. The cost is fine.
-Refreshing path: make it wider and make the hot stay for 4 seconds after leaving it.
Adding more HoTs to a class that is already stacked with an insane amount of HoTs isn't going to do much. This really only buffs magblade healers which is already very strong.
-Mass hysteria: Add back the slow at the very least. Minor breach or a 2 second root are also good options.
this going to be even stronger with magblades in ballgroups. No thanks

-Soul tether: remove the ult cast time. Infact, remove cast times from every ult in the game. I already mentioned it once.
please
-Swallow soul: no longer a projectile and undodgeable. So many things have become undodgeable, might aswell just add it to that list. Instantly solves the problem of an utterly unreliable offensive kit without taking any counterplay away from the big hits.
No more undodgable skills. Please no.
-Shrewd Offering: Can now affect the caster himself. Nobody uses this morph and magblade is in dire need of a good defensive heal.
cost and tooltips would need to change, but this would actually help magblade compete.
-Siphoning strikes: Put Major brutality and sorcery on this ability and its morphs. It makes 0 sense on the Drain Power skill. Stamblades use Momentum for its heal already anyways.
I agree major sorcery should be put on the skill line passively somehow. Like major resolve is for shadow, or a more useful skill than Sap. But do NOT do the same with major brutality, for obvious reasons i


To make magblade viable, giving magblade some burst heal option and/or freeing up barspace by not needing to slot Degen would be enough to help make magblade compete in open world.

Raeyleigh

Sergykid wrote: »

what? nightblades can not die if played correctly. Shade has no counter, cloak is insane (both morphs).

There is a sharp difference between winning and not losing. Nightblades and Sorcs alike can choose their fights easily, but that doesnt mean they should automaticly lose if they decide to fight.
Your average decent necro/warden player is too tanky to be killed by a single magblade. Running away until help arrives is the only option at that point.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Dark cloak: Reduce the cost. You have to recast it every 8 seconds for your Major Resolve passive anyways and the skill costs too much for how little it does.
No. Dark cloak is arguably the best source of major resolve in the game. The cost is fine.

I dont know why people think dark cloak is oh so strong. Unless you play in full heavy the abilities uptime and use just happens to be the only one that coincides with the major resolve passive. The skill itself may not be useless but its definetly not good. It costs a whooping 4k mag, even more than shadowy disguise, and a global cooldown every 8 seconds. The price of upkeep is enormous for an ability that heals for round about 800 non crit ticks with 30k health, making it weaker than radiating regen or refreshing path hots without any of the team utility. If you push your health any higher than that you lose any chance to deal significant damage on this class, current procs excluded.

Raeyleigh

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Concealed weapon: Increase the movement speed in stealth buff to 40%
this is unnecessary, it doesn't increase it's strengths in combat nor cover it's weaknesses

The point of that is to add back a portion of the mobility for the playstyle that was lost when major expedition was removed from crippling grasp.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Refreshing path: make it wider and make the hot stay for 4 seconds after leaving it.
Adding more HoTs to a class that is already stacked with an insane amount of HoTs isn't going to do much. This really only buffs magblade healers which is already very strong.

Insane amounts? Dark cloaks hot is weak, refreshing paths hot is tied to standing in it and no stronger than radiating regens. Siphoning attacks is extremly weak. Only swallow soul may have a strong one, but that depends on your damage and your opponents tankiness. Nothing outstanding.
Magblades stack several hots not because they can but because they have to. How often do Magplars or Magcros use rapid regen just because they could? The individual hots are so weak it is impossible to get by on them alone. And without a good burst heal option stacking hots is the only way to survive.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Mass hysteria: Add back the slow at the very least. Minor breach or a 2 second root are also good options.
this going to be even stronger with magblades in ballgroups. No thanks

The only reason to run Magblades in ballgroups is for bombers. The cc spam is done by other classes or in this case by soul thether.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Swallow soul: no longer a projectile and undodgeable. So many things have become undodgeable, might aswell just add it to that list. Instantly solves the problem of an utterly unreliable offensive kit without taking any counterplay away from the big hits.
No more undodgable skills. Please no.

I dont want any more undodgeable skills either, but i dont see any other way to solve the unrivaled unreliability of magblades offensive kit. Stamblades for instance deal far superior damage. If theyre not gonna directly buff magblades damage, which they wont do for pve reasons, then the only option is to remove counterplay to get the class to compete. Taking that off of burst abilities similiar to how blastbones and shalks already work is the poorer choice.

IAmIcehouse

Raeyleigh wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

what? nightblades can not die if played correctly. Shade has no counter, cloak is insane (both morphs).

There is a sharp difference between winning and not losing. Nightblades and Sorcs alike can choose their fights easily, but that doesnt mean they should automaticly lose if they decide to fight.
Your average decent necro/warden player is too tanky to be killed by a single magblade. Running away until help arrives is the only option at that point.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Dark cloak: Reduce the cost. You have to recast it every 8 seconds for your Major Resolve passive anyways and the skill costs too much for how little it does.
No. Dark cloak is arguably the best source of major resolve in the game. The cost is fine.

I dont know why people think dark cloak is oh so strong. Unless you play in full heavy the abilities uptime and use just happens to be the only one that coincides with the major resolve passive. The skill itself may not be useless but its definetly not good. It costs a whooping 4k mag, even more than shadowy disguise, and a global cooldown every 8 seconds. The price of upkeep is enormous for an ability that heals for round about 800 non crit ticks with 30k health, making it weaker than radiating regen or refreshing path hots without any of the team utility. If you push your health any higher than that you lose any chance to deal significant damage on this class, current procs excluded.

I'm not saying it's OP. It's definitely not. Nothing about magblade is, trust me. I'm aware. But compared to other sources of major resolve, it's extremely strong. The only other major resolve buff that you can say competes is hurricane.

Lowering the cost of dark cloak would only be a buff to stamblade. Magblade can sustain it fine.

exeeter702

Raeyleigh wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

The main issue I have seen for so mnay years on here is that for every thread made about what magblade needs, there is a different idea of what magblade is "supposed to be".

Unlike certain classes which pretty much always play the same unless you deliberatly go for something wild there is many different versions of magblades in pvp.
Bombblade, Gankblade, Healblade, Brawlerblade, Mageblade, Saptank, full meele, full ranged, meele ranged hybrid, dark cloak vs shadowy disguise, max stat stacking vs procs...
Not every Magblade out there plays the same and everyone thinks they need a different buff to be viable. Disagreements are bound to happen.

Without a reliable burst heal option brawlerblade is not good enough because dampen and healing ward are not good enough and buffs to those would benefit magsorc disproportionatly more, who dont need these buffs.
If shrewd offering can heal the user himself then it needs either a magicka cost or increased health cost to not be problematic.
Healblades would get the choice between the current healthy offering as it is, which is stronger but requires them to use dampen/shield ally for themselves and kite more, or the more generic shrewd offering, losing the 8% healing buff and making sustain worse for the benefit of having a blockcastable burstheal for better self defense.
Stamblades already have the ability to crit a momentum in cloak/shade and instantly heal to full while reseting the fight. There is a short "cooldown" to it, but then again they can also spam dodgerolls much more. Thus i dont see a spammable burstheal being as problematic for magblades who spam invisibility.

I have to say im also of the opinion that cloak should have a 33% cost increase per cast similiar to dodgeroll and streak. But i wouldnt push that unless zos can finally fix cloak to properly work for good. That skill is broken every second patch.
Atleast that way the class can finally become more than just "oneshots from stealth".

Magblade has historically been far more than one shots from stealth. My original point is there are too many people without the proper experience suggesting what magblade needs without understand ing the trajectory the spec has been through.

And yes a self target burst heal is fundamentally problematic when paired with the escape tools that magblade has. Asking for magblades to have a burst heal is asking for a bandaid to fix the damage that is the games current design environment, its shortsighted and unnecessary and reactionary to the flaw that is the design philosophy shift brought about when wrobel took over and Gilliam joined the dev team, to a universal power budget audit applied to all skills of particular catagories that has disproportionately harmed magblades specifically because of how versatile they were always able to be played.

Give them back their attrition and ability to sustain through active gameplay and that fixes the issue with non stealth based builds, healers, brawlers and ranged kiting setups alike. If a high damage based stealth setup magblade is able to reset and top off with 3 GCDs (self only burst heal would not break stealth) it would be close to oppressive and skew the risk vs reward of that playstyle. It is not the solution. And blockcasting has nothing to do with that, as playing around strong hot uptime management gives a non stealth based magblade breathing room to block while gaining life.

A big problem here is that things like swallow soul do not hang on to the strongest applications, often times you lose a stronger hot from it when you are weaving it and hit for less on subsequent casts. It needs minor vit back, and it needs the heal value static per 2 seconds based on the abilities tooltip, not real time damage dealt. Not only does that allow you to more specifically tune the heal value for balance concerns, but it actively reinforces staying in combat and weaving it to stay alive, strengthening the design of the siphoning skill line.

It should also be understood that regardless of what it may appear like on screen client side, swallow soul is an instant cast ability that is resolved server side once the ability is cast, if the target is in range and the ability is used, there is no action the recipient can take that will change the outcome of the skill, if they anticipated its use and dodged, there will be a dodge, same with block. Swallow souls trajectory visual and speed is superfluous and does not actively work against it server side. This is a massive misunderstanding that far too many players have for a lot of skills In this game.

The reason so much of magblades damage is avoidable is because unlike other classes, you cannot tie the resolve points of skills to be back to back at the end of one GCD into the next one, since everything has a cast time, there will forever be that gap where a dodge roll nullifies it. Cast times absolutely need to go on AT LEAST one of magblades key combo components, be it Will proc or death stroke.

Raeyleigh

exeeter702 wrote: »

And yes a self target burst heal is fundamentally problematic when paired with the escape tools that magblade has. Asking for magblades to have a burst heal is asking for a bandaid to fix the damage that is the games current design environment, its shortsighted and unnecessary and reactionary to the flaw that is the design philosophy shift brought about when wrobel took over and Gilliam joined the dev team, to a universal power budget audit applied to all skills of particular catagories that has disproportionately harmed magblades specifically because of how versatile they were always able to be played.

I agree that the spreadsheet balance philosophy has done more harm than good.
However the ability to instantly heal yourself to full while resetting the fight already exists with sorcs and stamblades since ages, both stronger classes already than magblade. Wether thats a good or bad thing, it is intended design and im not asking for something that doesnt exist already.
You can pinpoint the exact patch where magblades defense became as bad as it is to the healing ward changes, scalebreaker patch i believe.
Since the new balance team took over 2 years ago they didnt care for magblade even one tiny bit aside from nerfing the class for pve reasons and to improve stamblade. Suddenly asking them to undo 2 years of spreadsheet balance is not going to happen. Them reverting healing ward is also not going to happen and its current version would need a fat buff disproportionatly benefiting magsorc again. BUT asking them to apply standartization to shrewd offering is very much in the realm of possibility.
Im just being realistic and i based my improvement list on that and not my hearts wishlist.

exeeter702 wrote: »

A big problem here is that things like swallow soul do not hang on to the strongest applications, often times you lose a stronger hot from it when you are weaving it and hit for less on subsequent casts. It needs minor vit back, and it needs the heal value static per 2 seconds based on the abilities tooltip, not real time damage dealt. Not only does that allow you to more specifically tune the heal value for balance concerns, but it actively reinforces staying in combat and weaving it to stay alive, strengthening the design of the siphoning skill line.

I agree.

exeeter702 wrote: »

It should also be understood that regardless of what it may appear like on screen client side, swallow soul is an instant cast ability that is resolved server side once the ability is cast, if the target is in range and the ability is used, there is no action the recipient can take that will change the outcome of the skill, if they anticipated its use and dodged, there will be a dodge, same with block. Swallow souls trajectory visual and speed is superfluous and does not actively work against it server side. This is a massive misunderstanding that far too many players have for a lot of skills In this game.

The issue is not at what point the damage hit registers, it is that if a soul harvest merciless combo doesnt outright kill your target, which it usually doesnt, there is no way to pressure your target any further for the class with the exception of procs like zaan or icy conjurer. They will roll, heal back to full health and thats it.
Most classes have some form of delayed kill pressure to finish off a target. Even stamblades dont experience that problem in the same way as they deal outright more damage due to being able to stack stats higher like all stamina classes, having superior procs available like vateshran 2h or hunters venom and being able to hold a medium attack and then release it into an instant cast meele ability like surprise attack or executioner as their target comes out of a dodgeroll and before it goes into the next, something you cannot do with ranged abilities period.
Zos could compensate that by increasing magblades damage, but as already stated they wont do that because of pve and spreadsheet values.
Making either swallow soul or impale instant hits like meele abilities, perhaps even undodgeable or buffing the crap out of sap essence are sadly the only viable options i can see within the parameters of their current design philosophy.

SHOW

At least give us our speed back.

That won't impact any PvE leaderboards.

In fact, it'd be applauded as a fun quality of life improvement by both PvE and PvP.



Nowadays, my MagBlade plays like a no-streak-sorc (with no combo nor shields lol), sounds like fun huh?

Here is the Class Description in game:
"Relying variously on stealth, blades and speed, they thrive on conflict and misfortune trusting to their luck and cunning to survive."

rely on stealth... lol
rely on speed?? I wish

only thing I see accurate is having to "trust luck to survive" LOL

*pained sigh*

DrSlaughtr

On XB magblades are thriving. It's just now you build the character. Magblades are able to swap to shield and out heal lots of damage. Then they stealth around you and mess you up from flank.

Sedare38

Crippling Grasp and other morph absolutely needs a buff. The travel time is atrocious, the damage is meh. Make it undodgeable like stone form or bombard (but less annoying than bombard b/c that sh*! is not tight), or leave in the dodge-ability and bring back the major expedition bonus b/c we're sapping speed away from another person and giving it to ourselves, hence it being on the siphon line..

ResidentContrarian

Sedare38 wrote: »

Crippling Grasp and other morph absolutely needs a buff. The travel time is atrocious, the damage is meh.

Doesn't it still count a a projectile too...?

Sedare38

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

Crippling Grasp and other morph absolutely needs a buff. The travel time is atrocious, the damage is meh.

Doesn't it still count a a projectile too...?

I'd assume so. I've outraced the visual effect before it hit someone.

Raeyleigh

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

Crippling Grasp and other morph absolutely needs a buff. The travel time is atrocious, the damage is meh.

Doesn't it still count a a projectile too...?

Yes it does. Old wings and spell wall ult reflect it back. It is also ridicliously slow, if your opponent has their camera on you they can easily dodgeroll it. I will add it to the original posts improvement list.

In the past this was one of magblades most bread and butter skills that made the class work. It used to be a lot stronger than other dots, slowed the enemy and gave you major expedition for the full 10 second duration. It was an essential skill that allowed magblades to chase after targets, kite out meele targets and was a quasi gapcloser combined with cloak and concealed.

It was ruined back in Elsweyr and Scalebreaker/Dragonhold, because the current combat balance team thought it was overloaded and gutted it into oblivion. Magblade was not a good pvp spec back then either btw and was never compensated for its loss. Sadly i dont believe we will ever get it back to how it was, atleast not with the current balance team.

The skill hasnt found its way onto one of my bars ever since then. Its simply not good enough and barspace to create any semblence of a functioning build is too valuable.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

The biggest three issues magblade faces are:
1. Being hard-countered by a simple roll dodge
2. Overly telegraphed attacks
3. Having bad defenses/heals

Pauwer

When you fight nbs, you can hear all their skills coming. It's so ***. I almost never play my nbs anymore. Wish like frags and stuff were the same, loud and slow.

IAmIcehouse

Raeyleigh wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Concealed weapon: Increase the movement speed in stealth buff to 40%
this is unnecessary, it doesn't increase it's strengths in combat nor cover it's weaknesses

The point of that is to add back a portion of the mobility for the playstyle that was lost when major expedition was removed from crippling grasp.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Refreshing path: make it wider and make the hot stay for 4 seconds after leaving it.
Adding more HoTs to a class that is already stacked with an insane amount of HoTs isn't going to do much. This really only buffs magblade healers which is already very strong.

Insane amounts? Dark cloaks hot is weak, refreshing paths hot is tied to standing in it and no stronger than radiating regens. Siphoning attacks is extremly weak. Only swallow soul may have a strong one, but that depends on your damage and your opponents tankiness. Nothing outstanding.
Magblades stack several hots not because they can but because they have to. How often do Magplars or Magcros use rapid regen just because they could? The individual hots are so weak it is impossible to get by on them alone. And without a good burst heal option stacking hots is the only way to survive.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Mass hysteria: Add back the slow at the very least. Minor breach or a 2 second root are also good options.
this going to be even stronger with magblades in ballgroups. No thanks

The only reason to run Magblades in ballgroups is for bombers. The cc spam is done by other classes or in this case by soul thether.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

-Swallow soul: no longer a projectile and undodgeable. So many things have become undodgeable, might aswell just add it to that list. Instantly solves the problem of an utterly unreliable offensive kit without taking any counterplay away from the big hits.
No more undodgable skills. Please no.

I dont want any more undodgeable skills either, but i dont see any other way to solve the unrivaled unreliability of magblades offensive kit. Stamblades for instance deal far superior damage. If theyre not gonna directly buff magblades damage, which they wont do for pve reasons, then the only option is to remove counterplay to get the class to compete. Taking that off of burst abilities similiar to how blastbones and shalks already work is the poorer choice.

Dark Cloak + Soul Swallow + Siphoning Strikes is a LOT of healing over time. Yeah, not one is extremely strong on their own but together they are very strong. And they all have other functions--resolve/minor protection, spammable, sustain.

The problem with magblade is not the lack of HoTs

And yes, one of the major reasons groups run magblades is their damage. But there are other reasons as well (Incredible sustain and access to Major Evasion). And then there's mass hysteria--there's no group that is running magblade without one running Hysteria. It's such a good CC. Fears are, god knows why, harder to break, and can hit a bigger radius than streak.

It seems like we're just trying to "buff skills" rather than trying to see why OW magblade is performing so poorly and address those problems. It's not because it doesn't have enough HoTs. It's not because it doesn't have access to minor breach. And it's certainly not because people can rolldodge their spammable.

Give the class better access to Major Sorcery. Give the class some access to a self-burst heal--hell, you could make siphoning strikes act like Rally in terms of a burst-heal at the end, and we're good. We don't need a completely overhaul all of Magblade without addressing why it sucks.

MrDenimChicken

TheEndBringer wrote: »

On XB magblades are thriving. It's just now you build the character. Magblades are able to swap to shield and out heal lots of damage. Then they stealth around you and mess you up from flank.

I might see 1 or 2 magblades in cyrodil every 2-3 days of PVPing. And I pvp like 2 hours a day.

Meanwhile I see like 50 stamcros, 50 stamdens, 25 magsorcs, 35 stamblades, etc, etc.

So yeah....."thriving" is not the right word to use at all here. I think magblades are "non-existent" is more apt.