PVE MagDk.. A discussion.
-
Protossyder✭✭✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »
I feel your pain, as my favorite class (templar) has been nerfed to be a shell of their former selves, but is it really all that bad for magdk's? I have three players in my group who play Magdk's and they all melt stuff. Like, REALLY melt stuff. The only downside is that they're all super-squishy and heavily reliant on their tanks and healers to keep them alive when the tish hits the fan. Is it that you have built for more survivability at the cost of DPS?
About the squishy-part.., in order to use a shield you'll need to drop inner light, which is a small dps loss. DK DDs may have a little less hp than other classes (e.g. necro and sorc) and no Major Resolve, but with a warden healer you are completely fine.
People often forget that they should take a look at themselves first, before complaining about anything else.Edited by Protossyder on April 30, 2021 8:21PMCharacters worth mentioning:Arenas: vDSA (~46k) - vMA (~586k)SpoilerDaedrós - Magicka DK - Altmer - PvE & PvP - Emperor - IR - GH - TTT
Dragybor - Stamblade - Redguard - PvE (first char)
Yondaime Raikage - Stamsorc - Redguard - PvP
Zerg Overmind - Magblade - Altmer - PvE - GH
Yenari - Magsorc - Altmer - PvE - Flawless Conqueror
Devoured-his-siblings - DK Tank - Argonian - PvE - Unchained
Valkyrja Valhalla - StamDK - Redguard - PvE
Hyperion der Obere - Magplar - Altmer - PvE
Affa al'Dschinni - Stamplar - Orc - PvP
Enjoys-the-slaughter - Templar Healer - Argonian - PvE
Hades Adamastos - Stamcro - Orc - PvE
Khaba the Cruel - Magsorc- Altmer - PvP
Hekate Ourania - Magcro - Atlmer - PvE - TTT
Trials: vAA hm - vHRC hm - vSO hm - vMoL hm (~161k) - vHoF hm (~218k) - vAS+2 (~114k) - vCR+3 - vSS hm - vKA hm
PC - EU0 -
Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »I feel your pain, as my favorite class (templar) has been nerfed to be a shell of their former selves, but is it really all that bad for magdk's? I have three players in my group who play Magdk's and they all melt stuff. Like, REALLY melt stuff. The only downside is that they're all super-squishy and heavily reliant on their tanks and healers to keep them alive when the tish hits the fan. Is it that you have built for more survivability at the cost of DPS?
Templar at least is getting buffed, and rightfully so. DK isn't. We are the only class confined to melee, there should be some upside to being melee-only, and currently there isn't. ZOS made light attacks with melee Stamina weapons do more damage than ranged weapons to reinforce the idea that melee trades range and safety for damage, but the issue is, there aren't any melee Magicka weapons. Mag DK is forced into melee with a ranged weapon and suffers a penalty to damage while gaining no benefit. We have to drop some damage to spec into more survivability while already possessing less damage, safety, and range than every other class.
This is on top of having the worst sustain, DPS and healing in the game, being the worst solo class in the game, and the absolute worst PvP class in the game now that Templar's been buffed. We are missing so many basic features that are commonplace on other classes.0 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭I think a buff to the combustion passive would be a start to sustain buffs, its like 500 now but could use an increase since the asylum build is dead
I also think eruption costs an arm and a leg and needs a cost reduction, granted its more of an issue for us console players without add ons
Maybe also keeping seething fury stacks off cooldown would help as well, or make them permament0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PVE ?
Or PvDummy ?
I play just fine.
In PVE not PvDummy.
A trial dummy is a metric for a classes potential. No you don’t need to pull 100k on a dummy to be successful, but the reality is that some magic classes are and DK is not. You simply won’t ever see more than 1 mDK (z’ens DK for buffs) in an optimal raid group. They drop even further at range and can’t compete with other melee classes (mostly stam builds) for a melee DPS spot.
You can pretend like dummies parses don’t matter, and for most things they don’t, but for things like Trifectas and score pushing, you would be mistaken. They are far and away the best tool we have for a balance discussion.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on May 1, 2021 4:26PM1 -
xv1_me✭✭✭I main this class and I love it.
Do I care if I get in any guilds that require 100k+ dps?
No.0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
I believe the overall point others are making about that is that they don't like feeling pigeonholed into being the designated "You're only good for XX debuffs & whatnot, so fill this specific role or we don't need you!" person in an organized group composition, which is a pretty understandable complaint tbh. Sure, there are upsides to playing MagDK the way others want you to, as you said, but "Wouldn't it be nice if our class was strong enough that we had the freedom to build differently and still be worthy of other spots in the group?" is a pretty fair argument.
That said, I still stand by my above posts that say that specific issue is mostly a problem with players being too rigid in their requirements and too self-limiting in their beliefs. I'm not really in the scene anymore, so I guess I can't say for certain that it's doable in modern Trials, but back in the day I was in groups that would run vetHMs with goofy setups like "Werewolves ONLY night!" or "All MagSorcs, Max Pets!" and other off-meta shenanigans -- and we did totally fine. It was fun, and not nearly as impossible or impractical as people told us it would be. If your group knows mechanics and performs decently (not even flawlessly most the time, just decently), you could get away with a lot more shenanigans than folks seem to think.
I would not be at all surprised if a 12-man "All MagDKs" group could clear every vetHM Trial in the game with relative ease. Everyone just needs to know what they're doing and be at least 80% on their game that night.
There's a very self-limiting attitude of "that's not viable" going around in the endgame community these days and (unless the Trials have drastically changed since the olden days of yore) I think people are mostly putting themselves in that box. Outside of competing for leaderboard placement, there's a lot of freedom in simply getting things done last I checked. Which, admittedly, was a while ago; but still. Everyone keeps going on about power creep and whatnot, so it seems to me that little has really changed.
Definitely wouldn't say no to some DK buffs, though! ;P
If Necro didn’t have colossus every trial group would be like 7 magblades and 1 magsorc on DPS. Tanks can handle the engulfing and healers can wear Zen’s. Thankfully colossus exists though and I because it does every group has 3-4 cro’s these days. Speaking of cro’s the new tank meta runs catalyst so cro’s have more freedom to be in damage sets and a buff cro is no longer needed.
Same goes for buff DK, it’s such a niche role for many groups and some don’t even bother and put Zen’s on another toon instead.
Thankfully these sort of buff/debuff roles exist or there would be no variety what so ever in raids.0 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭A 20% cost reduction on most abilities would be most welcome. This would alleviate much of the problem without eliminating all resource management concerns.1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I could never get into magDK until the buff to Elfbane. That made me fall in love with the class. Everything feels so smooth on my Elfbane magDK and even if I was never able to reach more than 68k dps and was lacking the perfected Asylum Inferno staff that was the best time I had with magDK.
The Zaan nerf was a good call even if it hurt and fixing that bug to the burning passive had to be done too, but it left magDK completely in the dust. And then ZOS nerfed the perfected Asylum staff instead of buffing the nonperfected Asylum staff too.
That just hurt the class so bad that even when they fixed that mistake, due to the bug fix on burning, the Asylum staff wasn't even worth running anymore.
DKs still have two completely useless passives!- Searing Heat - It increases the damage over time and duration of Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard, when those skills could be dealing more damage over time with a longer duration at base!
- Eternal Mountain - it increases the duration of your Earthen Heart abilities when they could have a longer duration at base!
This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.4 -
Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭DKs still have two completely useless passives!- Searing Heat - It increases the damage over time and duration of Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard, when those skills could be dealing more damage over time with a longer duration at base!
- Eternal Mountain - it increases the duration of your Earthen Heart abilities when they could have a longer duration at base!
Don't forget forcing the class into melee and then magnanimously giving us a whopping 2m extra range, but only on instant abilities with a 5m range specifically, and then making all our skills 5m range instead of just ranged. Or giving us Helping Hands for some stamina when we cast Earthen Heart abilities but then making Earthen Heart abilities really expensive, or Battle Roar for sustain when we use Ults off cooldown just to still have the worst sustain in the game.
Create a problem, sell the solution.
Other classes just get resources. Or have free skills. We have to spend multiple passives on janky interactions like using Balance to restore 3k Magicka so that we can spend 4k on Obsidian Shield just so that we can proc Helping Hands for not even 1k Stamina, or rely on RNG to proc status effects, or use Ults when we might not want to in order to get back resources, and still have the worst sustain.1 -
cptqrk✭✭✭It's this entire 'i'm not top of the scoreboard so my class must be nerfed' mentality that made me leave WoW, don't put that meta into ESO now too.
Remember when video games were fun? well they still are, if you let them be. WoW is no longer fun because people have pushed the meta over fun to the point of shutting out entire class/specs because they aren't 'the right one'
This is ESO, not WoW.. Are you still clearing? Are you still having fun?
If you answer yes to either of these two questions (mostly the second) what's the problem?0 -
Brynhiild✭✭✭MagDK is actually pretty fun to play and it's easy to have a viable build.
I followed the tips my guild master told me and used Elf Bane + BSW with Grothdarr monster set and now i hit 61k dps on the trial dummy. In dunjeons i rarely do less than 40% on any boss. The only "con" i'll see is in trial, i never did a trial with the magDK and i don't know if it's viable since it's mostly a melee class.
But anyway you don't need to have 100k+ dps to enjoy the game. Most of my DDs are between 55k - 85k dps (on a dummy) and even with the lowest of them i'm able to do veteran content with ease without being a burden (doing 45%+ of the damages).
This is a problem on ESO, people always looks at the top of the board without being aware of what they're already capable of, DON'T LOOK at the board, just play the game, and one day you'll clear Scalecaller Peak in Vet HM without having 100k+ dps and you'll be proud.0 -
nihoumab14_ESO✭✭✭MagDK is actually pretty fun to play and it's easy to have a viable build.
I followed the tips my guild master told me and used Elf Bane + BSW with Grothdarr monster set and now i hit 61k dps on the trial dummy. In dunjeons i rarely do less than 40% on any boss. The only "con" i'll see is in trial, i never did a trial with the magDK and i don't know if it's viable since it's mostly a melee class.
But anyway you don't need to have 100k+ dps to enjoy the game. Most of my DDs are between 55k - 85k dps (on a dummy) and even with the lowest of them i'm able to do veteran content with ease without being a burden (doing 45%+ of the damages).
This is a problem on ESO, people always looks at the top of the board without being aware of what they're already capable of, DON'T LOOK at the board, just play the game, and one day you'll clear Scalecaller Peak in Vet HM without having 100k+ dps and you'll be proud.
I don't disagree with you, I don't look at boards, but DK is a class that does underperformed for the role I like to play (healer) by an incredibly wide margin, because DK skills feel shoehorned in for roles that are not tanking.
The class doesn't have a ranged magicka spammable, the stamina spammable is clunky to use, our burst heal is clunky to use, our hot only fires every 5 seconds, our ground aoe hot is tiny, expensive, and includes a snare, almost every ability has some kind of health restoration, even when not necessary (lash, talons, inhale, shattering rocks are all abilities that can heal you). DK wings were heavily nerfed while allowing the warden version to be functionally very similar without nerfs.
The class could be numerically at the top and these issues would still be present for the most part. Honestly I think the real problem is it now just seems badly designed compared to newer classes that came out and really needs a rework0
