Disappointed Eveli sharp arrow seems to have lost her character arc :C

spartaxoxo

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

Wasn't she still happy at the end of Orsinium, depending on your choices?

Ah so this is more like the situation with the prophet where they just picked a true canon ending and aren't offering much in way of explaining why a choice wasn't respected then

WeerW3ir

You all know that the original writer has been left. Right? Right now the whole game is like if somebody else would have continue lord of the rings.

As somebody else mentioned and also because of the one year long story, They trying to make the story to be an own story. So that mean you can start anytime. Without knowing the original plot.!!

And this is what i always felt wrong. Everything till summerset were a long set up. But after it they are just written for a year and not connected to the original main story of the game. Elsweyr were actually. But the story were dropped because dragons were started to messing around. Western Skyrim just starts with a prologue. But nothing serious. Also like everybody forgot what the vestige did so far. Youre always the great adventurer and thats it. Never asking "how we are" , what we did. Our character just instantly volunteers and voila. New chapter is also the same. Also funny thing. The war is moving on, but only getting rarely mentioned. Wrothgar, Summerset, actually carries the loss of the war, but khajiits? Nords? Joricc came there in the dlc like the war is not even happening. Fix me if im wrong about the war part.

Faulgor

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sengra wrote: »

Zenzuki wrote: »

Have you never been sad, or questioning or whatever in the past.... and are now no longer?

It's quite possible she did her "soul searching" and has grown from it or learned from it or whatever.

And now she's back to her old happy go lucky self (or a more grown version of it).

If that's the case, then it must be shown ... it is a story, after all, not real life. Show, don't tell etc

Why does it need to be shown? It makes no sense for her entire personality to have changed rather than simply her perspective on life. Plucky is who she is as a person, and is separate from the way she views the world.

That makes no sense to me. Personalities change, and are not separate from "perspectives on life".

Actually no, they don't. Your core personality tends to remain pretty stable, and what changes is your perspective on life. But it's rare for say an introvert to suddenly become an extrovert just because they decide they like being around people more. They tend to still express that in an introverted way, like maybe having small dinner parties instead of hosting ragers. It's not impossible and does happen, but it's actually not common.

In fiction, that's harder to demonstrate so characters core personalities tend to be fairly more one note than they are irl. But they do reflect this aspect still. A cheery personality would seldom become a gloomy one, but perhaps that characters will be less likely to do something reckless or whatever.

I was using "personalities" more colloquially there, but even if you want to talk about personality in terms of the Big Five traits such as Extraversion, they are not set in stone. Changes can and do happen, although usually over longer periods of time, whereas sudden changes might indeed be indicative of a disorder.
But we don't know Eveli's personality inventory like that. We can just observe her behavior, which is a function of many different internal and external factors. People behave differently in all sorts of contexts, and we can't be sure the behavior we see at any given moment is attributable to an underlying personality.

Yes, of course one of these internal factors are "perspectives on life", but these are not separate from other factors of a person. Called attitudes, they are very much colored by personality traits and in the short term even moods. And likewise, changing our attitudes can cause a change in behavior that, over time, may solidify in changed personality traits. I think this is the main point I objected to when replying to your initial comment, although I didn't phrase it very well.

But because we can only observe her behavior as a whole, I don't find this level of psychological discussion very fruitful. I didn't want to suggest for example, that if Eveli were to take a Big Five test after Orsinium, she would score higher on Neuroticism and lower on Openness or somesuch. The experience in Orsinium certainly affected her behavior, and if you want to mark that down to a change in her attitudes, that's fine with me.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Eveli shouldn't still be tirelessly pursuing heroism, but she should definitely still be an upbeat personality because that's what makes Eveli, Eveli. She shouldn't be a stern and morose character.

Well, she is still enthusiastically pursuing herosim, and as I tried to point out, that is the problem for me.

I haven't seen anyone say she should be continuously stern or morose. I certainly didn't.
But as I said in another post, Eveli always struck me as someone who is easily affected by events, both good and bad. Yeah she is generally upbeat with a positive outlook on life and her abilities, but she's also quite sensitive. That made her show a wide range of emotions in Orsinium - she was cheery when contributing to a good cause, sulky when feeling betrayed, angry at injustice, ashamed and guilty when killing guards, sad when her friends get harmed, etc. In Blackwood, she feels much more one-note, and in a way that seems like a significant "personality" change in itself.

spartaxoxo

Faulgor wrote: »

I was using "personalities" more colloquially there.

Just a refresher of the conversation you waded into here...

Wing wrote: »

.
come prologue quest and that is gone, its like orsinium never happened. she is back to being the hyper over enthusiastic wood elf that she was at the start of orsinium, before any character development happened.

Zenzuki wrote: »

Have you never been sad, or questioning or whatever in the past.... and are now no longer.

Sengra wrote: »

[
If that's the case, then it must be shown ... it is a story, after all, not real life. Show, don't tell etc

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Have you
Why does it need to be shown? It makes no sense for her entire personality to have changed rather than simply her perspective on life. Plucky is who she is as a person, and is separate from the way she views the world.

And it was this post you objected to. In this case we were using personality that way. The OP said in his post that he had expected a significant personality change in her. It wasn't about her view on adventuring but her general demeanor.

I was simply pointing out that real personalites actually usually don't undergo such big changes and when they do, it tends to come over the course of a long period. You would expect sudden worldview shifts but if she were to suddenly change her entire personality to someone that was moreso like she was in that bit of dialogue being referenced (gloomy, morose) then that would actually point towards a mental crisis with Eveli.

I was never attempting to commenting on her view on adventuring. I agreed it should have remained changed or they should have told of if her change of heart was grief speaking in the moment and she steeled her resolve in the meantime.

Only that she should still be a "hyper over-enthusiastic" person. Because that's who she is. I wasn't going into a psychological profile, because that's not how fiction relays core personalities vs things like moods. Instead fiction tends to simplify this as "this character is gonna get a lot of cheerful dialogue" or whatever. And you'd expect them to remain cheerful as a default state, even if they respond emotionally appropriately to events when they happen.

VaranisArano

Faulgor wrote: »

Man. I don't want to spoil anything, but I finished the Blackwood main quest on the test server earlier, and I'm more upset with her characterization than before.

I played with a template character so I don't know if her dialog is slightly different if you played Orsinium (Yffre I hope so), but there is one instance where you can actually ask her if she wants to continue being a hero or whether that business isn't too grim for her. I found her answer to be as unreflected and naive as the day I met her all those years ago at Merchant's Gate.
ZOS obviously realized Blackwood was a departure from her arc in Orsinium to include this dialog, but it feels more like a kick in the backside than an explanation.

People often describe Eveli as plucky or enthusiastic, but to me, she first and foremost always seemed like an Elf that took things to heart. Events affected her, good and bad. This not only made her appear more real and personable than other NPCs, it was also a good reflection for the player that things we commonly do in video games without a second thought (i.e. taking out guards) do deserve a second thought.

To me, the new Eveli feels like a Saturday morning cartoon character - ZOS was afraid that the kids watching might become too timid by learning the "wrong" lessons from her arc in Orsinium (be careful what you wish for, actions have consequences, etc), so went in the opposite direction to encourage the kids to be an all American bold and daring hero.

Don't be a cracked acorn! It's great to help people, don't 'cha know!?

While I'm disappointed, perhaps ZOS figured that most newer players would play Blackwood first, and then see her character arc in Orsinium afterwards, where it will be more impactful. (They are probably correct about that, with Orsinium being older and standalone content.)

Hallothiel

@WeerW3ir Not if I do something different, but my main, who I’ve played things through in order since pre-One Tamriel days, has had many conversations with npcs who remember who he is & what he has done.

(Some of the threads on here do make me wonder if players pay that much attention to the game when playing...!)

But tbh, not that enamoured of having to quest with an annoying wood elf. No spoilers please but hoping there are other npcs to cancel out her irritating perkiness. Urggghhh <shudders>

Vinterskald

I think that's one of the biggest issues with not having a linear story in ESO anymore. They simply can't make three-dimensional characters who undergo real development anymore, because if they don't water down characterisations enough, it might lead to continuity errors. (i.e. a more calm Eveli, disenchanted by the idea of being a hero, would confuse newer players who then go back to the start of Orsinium, where she's none of that. Personally, I don't feel like there's anything wrong with just writing a linear story and letting players know they're playing the story out of order if they start with the newest content, but that's its own whole can of worms and it seems ZOS would disagree with me there.)

To me that was already somewhat noticeable in Greymoor, so I'm not surprised it's getting worse with Blackwood. Maybe those of us who care about character development in recurring NPCs and larger story arcs spanning across several chapters just need to dial down their expectations a whole lot in the future.

LettuceBrain

Ashtaris wrote: »

The thing that bothered me about the Prologue was that Eveli starts going on how Bazrag is in power and King Kurog is disposed of. I’m sorry, but I’m currently doing the Wrothgar quest line and I can assure you that Kurog is still in power and Bazrag is in hiding. The least they could do would be to shape Eveli’s prologue dialog around what is currently going on with your progress in Wrothgar. It really wouldn’t be that hard @ZOS_GinaBruno

Also, it’s a bit of a spoiler because you find out the final outcome of Bazrag/Kurog before you even finish the final Wrothgar quest.

Well you are meant to be doing the prologue after Orsinium.

Hurbster

LettuceBrain wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

The thing that bothered me about the Prologue was that Eveli starts going on how Bazrag is in power and King Kurog is disposed of. I’m sorry, but I’m currently doing the Wrothgar quest line and I can assure you that Kurog is still in power and Bazrag is in hiding. The least they could do would be to shape Eveli’s prologue dialog around what is currently going on with your progress in Wrothgar. It really wouldn’t be that hard @ZOS_GinaBruno

Also, it’s a bit of a spoiler because you find out the final outcome of Bazrag/Kurog before you even finish the final Wrothgar quest.

Well you are meant to be doing the prologue after Orsinium.

While simultaneously doing everything else at the same time.

LettuceBrain

Hurbster wrote: »

LettuceBrain wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

The thing that bothered me about the Prologue was that Eveli starts going on how Bazrag is in power and King Kurog is disposed of. I’m sorry, but I’m currently doing the Wrothgar quest line and I can assure you that Kurog is still in power and Bazrag is in hiding. The least they could do would be to shape Eveli’s prologue dialog around what is currently going on with your progress in Wrothgar. It really wouldn’t be that hard @ZOS_GinaBruno

Also, it’s a bit of a spoiler because you find out the final outcome of Bazrag/Kurog before you even finish the final Wrothgar quest.

Well you are meant to be doing the prologue after Orsinium.

While simultaneously doing everything else at the same time.

Well yes, but actually no if you want to play chronologically.

SilverBride

Personally, I never could stand her.

TiaFrye

WeerW3ir wrote: »

You all know that the original writer has been left.

Ahem... No, they don't. While previous Loremaster left, both lead writer and designer for Orsinium and Eveli in particular still working here. Pls don't spread misinformation if you don't know your stuff.

I've ran through Blackwood MQ and even for template character Eveli states that it's important to help people in her adventures. So, why would she stay in the corner all her life just because some business in Orsinium was messy and people died?