The Arctic Winds nerf

GusTheWizard

I wanna start off by saying I personally think these skills were quite over tuned for Stam wardens from a pvp stand point but as a magic warden main I feel I won’t be able to stay alive anymore.

So I would like to propose a change, would it be possible to make the Arctic blast morph specifically scale off of max magic/spell damage or max magic/max health? This would greatly improve the status of magic wardens in pvp.

As of now I don’t have much bar space and having Arctic blast be my heal and stun helps tremendously, with this nerf I think I will need to slot an additional healing skill on top of the two I already have.

This is just a suggestion but ZOS please consider it, this would help the 3 magden mains that are out there greatly.

ESO_Nightingale

GusTheWizard wrote: »

I wanna start off by saying I personally think these skills were quite over tuned for Stam wardens from a pvp stand point but as a magic warden main I feel I won’t be able to stay alive anymore.

So I would like to propose a change, would it be possible to make the Arctic blast morph specifically scale off of max magic/spell damage or max magic/max health? This would greatly improve the status of magic wardens in pvp.

As of now I don’t have much bar space and having Arctic blast be my heal and stun helps tremendously, with this nerf I think I will need to slot an additional healing skill on top of the two I already have.

This is just a suggestion but ZOS please consider it, this would help the 3 magden mains that are out there greatly.

the best course of action is to buff living trellis's burst by about 55% or so, but right now your best burst heal is going to be blessing of restoration.

But I am really curious to see just how bad we are without blast for a single patch. Like genuinely curious.

relentless_turnip

My only question upon reading this in the patch notes was: is it enough? It isn't just stamden that this heal overperforms on it is both. I do agree magden is not as oppressive as stamden, but from a defensive perspective this heal was overloaded. Both in the heal and the amount it does from one button.

I have seen on many occasions wardens survive at least 3 people spamming execute to finish someone spamming arctic. The fact that it stuns is also problematic as it stops your opponent being able to execute you. Wardens for at least the last 6 months have been the most powerful class and I would mainly put it down to this skill.

GoodFella146

Just spend 4k magicka for a 5k damage shield from the light armor skill line. That'll save you.

(any mods reading this: this is sarcasm not trolling)

ESO_Nightingale

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My only question upon reading this in the patch notes was: is it enough? It isn't just stamden that this heal overperforms on it is both. I do agree magden is not as oppressive as stamden, but from a defensive perspective this heal was overloaded. Both in the heal and the amount it does from one button.

I have seen on many occasions wardens survive at least 3 people spamming execute to finish someone spamming arctic. The fact that it stuns is also problematic as it stops your opponent being able to execute you. Wardens for at least the last 6 months have been the most powerful class and I would mainly put it down to this skill.

8.2k tooltip with 37.5k max hp seems like it's really hammered the healing of the skill, i dunno i think the nerf is good enough to kill the skill's power in pvp at least for magicka wardens. stamina wardens in full heavy armor could probably squeeze out a 10k tooltip? unsure, but if so, i think that's achieved the desired effect. Magicka Wardens need Trellis's burst to be buffed up by a good amount provided nothing is bugged out.

Rhaegar75

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My only question upon reading this in the patch notes was: is it enough? It isn't just stamden that this heal overperforms on it is both. I do agree magden is not as oppressive as stamden, but from a defensive perspective this heal was overloaded. Both in the heal and the amount it does from one button.

I have seen on many occasions wardens survive at least 3 people spamming execute to finish someone spamming arctic. The fact that it stuns is also problematic as it stops your opponent being able to execute you. Wardens for at least the last 6 months have been the most powerful class and I would mainly put it down to this skill.

Totally this!! It can't be that you always need an army to take down a tanky warden. It's insane to have a healing skills that is powerful enough to keep you alive whilst it can also stop and kill others.
In my humble opinion the nerf is not significant enough.

ESO_Nightingale

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

My only question upon reading this in the patch notes was: is it enough? It isn't just stamden that this heal overperforms on it is both. I do agree magden is not as oppressive as stamden, but from a defensive perspective this heal was overloaded. Both in the heal and the amount it does from one button.

I have seen on many occasions wardens survive at least 3 people spamming execute to finish someone spamming arctic. The fact that it stuns is also problematic as it stops your opponent being able to execute you. Wardens for at least the last 6 months have been the most powerful class and I would mainly put it down to this skill.

Totally this!! It can't be that you always need an army to take down a tanky warden. It's insane to have a healing skills that is powerful enough to keep you alive whilst it can also stop and kill others.
In my humble opinion the nerf is not significant enough.

Arctic Blast shouldn't have ever healed and because it does, the damage is mediocre on a class that desperately needs damage skills and the stun has nothing to do with our playstyle of AoE burst. It doesn't travel to the enemy when it needs to. The healing on this morph needs to go.

Lughlongarm

For a magden this nerf is painful, you really feel the reduction in healing capabilities. To get this skill out of our bar, we need to replace it with both a main burst heal and a stun skill. For a magden, it is hard to find skill replacements and the bar space.

Buffing living living trellis's is a good idea. Also it will be nice if they will do something with our strange passive that supposed to give + 10% to crit heals. They should change it for a duration after you chill a target or something.

relentless_turnip

Lughlongarm wrote: »

For a magden this nerf is painful, you really feel reduction in healing capabilities. To get this skill out of our bar we need we need replace it with both a mian burst heal and a stun skill. For magden is hard to find replacements and the bar space.

Buffing living living trellis's is a good idea. Also it will be nice if they will do something with out strange passive that supposed to give + 10% to crit heals. They should change it for a duration after you chill a target or something.

Try healing on another class, is it about the same yet? Because warden self healing in my experience is so much better than any other class.

GusTheWizard

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Try healing on another class, is it about the same yet? Because warden self healing in my experience is so much better than any other class.

I’ve played both magDK and magplar and their burst heals are far superior, coagulating blood is cracked, even resistant flesh is better than Arctic blast. What people don’t realize about magden is you have so many things that you need to slot to be viable that without the stun/heal we will be sleeping on the ground quite often.

Schattenfluegel

GusTheWizard wrote: »

I wanna start off by saying I personally think these skills were quite over tuned for Stam wardens from a pvp stand point but as a magic warden main I feel I won’t be able to stay alive anymore.

So I would like to propose a change, would it be possible to make the Arctic blast morph specifically scale off of max magic/spell damage or max magic/max health? This would greatly improve the status of magic wardens in pvp.

As of now I don’t have much bar space and having Arctic blast be my heal and stun helps tremendously, with this nerf I think I will need to slot an additional healing skill on top of the two I already have.

This is just a suggestion but ZOS please consider it, this would help the 3 magden mains that are out there greatly.

And what should a PVE Tank take as mainheal, if it scales to Spelldmg? This will heal nothing in PvE on a Raidtank.

GusTheWizard

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

And what should a PVE Tank take as mainheal, if it scales to Spelldmg? This will heal nothing in PvE on a Raidtank.

My suggestion is for the Arctic Blast morph specifically, I think Polar Winds should be left as is.
(Side note all the warden raid tanks I know use polar winds anyways so it’s not like we’re taking a skill from them)

ESO_Nightingale

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

And what should a PVE Tank take as mainheal, if it scales to Spelldmg? This will heal nothing in PvE on a Raidtank.

My suggestion is for the Arctic Blast morph specifically, I think Polar Winds should be left as is.
(Side note all the warden raid tanks I know use polar winds anyways so it’s not like we’re taking a skill from them)

Yeah, polar can remain the same, arctic on the other hand is the thing that needs to change by having it's healing removed, and it's damage and stun having reworks to make the skill actually combo with deep fissure. That stun needs to travel towards an enemy.

Casul

Arctic should be a damage skill, polar should be the heal at current strength.

relentless_turnip

GusTheWizard wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Try healing on another class, is it about the same yet? Because warden self healing in my experience is so much better than any other class.

I’ve played both magDK and magplar and their burst heals are far superior, coagulating blood is cracked, even resistant flesh is better than Arctic blast. What people don’t realize about magden is you have so many things that you need to slot to be viable that without the stun/heal we will be sleeping on the ground quite often.

Totally disagree. I needed daedric to get my coag as strong as arctic. Warden I can wear literally anything and the healing is amazing. The added hot probably makes the heal greater than most. I have to admit I don't have a magcro only played stamcro. I have played most other classes though.

ESO_Nightingale

BuildMan wrote: »

Arctic should be a damage skill, polar should be the heal at current strength.

Dude i literally couldn't agree more if i tried.

WildRaptorX

They change this skill almost every patch. They should just scrap it and make a new healing/utility skill

ESO_Nightingale

Keylun wrote: »

They change this skill almost every patch. They should just scrap it and make a new healing/utility skill

We don't need one though. We have enough utility skills and not enough damage skills.

Rhaegar75

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Keylun wrote: »

They change this skill almost every patch. They should just scrap it and make a new healing/utility skill

We don't need one though. We have enough utility skills and not enough damage skills.

It doesn't matter does it? most wardens I see in BGs are high health proc based...they just need to stay alive and let the procs do the job!! Easy when you are so tanky

ESO_Nightingale

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Keylun wrote: »

They change this skill almost every patch. They should just scrap it and make a new healing/utility skill

We don't need one though. We have enough utility skills and not enough damage skills.

It doesn't matter does it? most wardens I see in BGs are high health proc based...they just need to stay alive and let the procs do the job!! Easy when you are so tanky

Yes, it does matter. As blast is being nerfed our healing dramatically decreases, our damage kit has no synergy with itself at the moment and the skills we have access to bar fissure are either generic or just awful. Fetcher and Winter's Revenge being the generic DoTs and Dive being arguably the worst pvp spammable in the game. We need a damage skill that synergises with our AoE Burst playstyle.

Firstmep

I think putting a cap on max hp via battlespirit in pvp would be a good way to deal with a lot high hp shenanigans in pvp.
I know soft caps were removed for a reason, but capping max hp would help a lot.
People could still build tanky by adding more resistances and stacking other dmg reduction effects, but many of those usually come with a higher opportunity cost than just putting more points into health.
But that would probably have to be accompanied by a rework to a lot of max hp based skills, so probably not this pts cycle.
On live wardens have incredible healing even when not building for max hp, but it's usually thru layering multiple hots or hot like effects like vines.
Also when was the last time any warden used lotus?
Maybe it's time to bring those lightsabers back!
Arctic blast has been a problematic skill since forever, and I get that there is no easy way for magden to get a stun otherwise, IMHO the stun from shock clench should have never been taken away. Especially after its range was nerfed.

oscarovegren

Arctic blast scales of mag and polar wind scales of health. Problem solved

ESO_Nightingale

oscarovegren wrote: »

Arctic blast scales of mag and polar wind scales of health. Problem solved

That doesn't solve the problem. You're just giving magden it's 6th magicka scaling heal when it certainly doesn't need more healing skills. But it does need more reliable magicka based damaging skills. 4 is definitely not enough especially when compared to literally every other class.

Instead of having a quantity and quality of damage skills, it just has raw damage passives instead which cripples it's damage design while still keeping it relevant through hitting like a truck with deep fissure and a non-class spammable of your choice.

Blasts healing should be removed, it shouldn't scale differently. It's stun should be reworked into an offensive one(i.e, travels away from caster and hopefully into an enemy) with an aoe damage component, so this class can actually have a coherent design unlike at present, to solve the healing problem temporarily, Trellis's burst healing then needs to be upped by 55% to make it at least decent, and then additional skills should be looked at from there.