Tank heal nerfs? Why?

Athan1

Templar tank healing was buffed so I'm happy

Casul

Warden takes another step into the grave.

Arbit

I just pugged a vMoS today and I needed that heal so badly. It saved me when the healer was dead for half the boss fights with trees included of course. I needed that ability to help survive a and help my teammates with that heal. It might be overtuned for pvp, but as someone who doesn’t give a flying pancake about pvp, I just find myself looking at my warden tank and as usual cursing the pvp community. Where this really strikes hard is gonna be where you have pick up groups. Just like today for me, where I find myself with many inexperienced players and with ZOS taking away some of my most important survivability skills in my kit. I guess I’m just gonna need to build selfish from now on, because if it’s not in our kit anymore I’m going to have to look elsewhere.

ccfeeling

Arbit wrote: »

I just pugged a vMoS today and I needed that heal so badly. It saved me when the healer was dead for half the boss fights with trees included of course. I needed that ability to help survive a and help my teammates with that heal. It might be overtuned for pvp, but as someone who doesn’t give a flying pancake about pvp, I just find myself looking at my warden tank and as usual cursing the pvp community. Where this really strikes hard is gonna be where you have pick up groups. Just like today for me, where I find myself with many inexperienced players and with ZOS taking away some of my most important survivability skills in my kit. I guess I’m just gonna need to build selfish from now on, because if it’s not in our kit anymore I’m going to have to look elsewhere.

That's the thing happen everyday , you guys are the majority .

Dev is not gonna help and nerf .

Sangwyne

sirpz wrote: »

god no, do you have any understanding about how god awful the sustain is on warden dps? even with netch wardens have some of the worst sustain of any class, making their only sustain ability cost resources is a terrible idea

Is this a joke? Warden has the best sustain in the game, it's obvious to everyone. Inexpensive or free skills, a free Major Sorcery and Brutality buff that also grants sustain and purges, and 250 Magicka/Stamina per second from Nature's Gift.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563487/pve-what-class-got-the-worst-sustain/p1
I'm sure that Warden players here will just vote for their main to skew the results, but at the time of posting this poll had 3 votes for Warden having the worst sustain out of 160 total. DK alone had more than every other class combined, 54%.

zvavi wrote: »

It ain't 37% mate, initial heal goes down from 25% of max health to 20%, and heal HoT goes down to 2.5% from 3%. Generally 20% is a good estimation to the amount of healing loss. i would argue though that the warden heal was the most expensive one of all classes, and it makes no sense for it to be weaker as well. the only heal which is the same cost is green dragon blood and with these changes it is superior to it by all means (especially with all the dk passives that comes with it). with these changes they need to lower the cost of arctic wind and morphs by 25%.

Arctic Blast was busted, don't even try to compare it to GDB. A 25% Max HP burst heal, 18% Max HP HOT, AOE DOT scaling off Warden's 10% Frost increase, AOE 4s unblockable stun, with 300% the chance to proc Chilled, Minor Maim, Minor Brittle + Glacial Presence for 20% more critical damage, and it's cheaper than GDB too, by several hundred Magicka. GDB meanwhile is the only heal in the game scaling off missing health, meaning that a half-dead 40k HP DK would need to spend more Magicka to heal for a measly 6666 compared to a 40k HP Warden spending less to heal for 10000 immediately and another 7200 over 5s, along with all the other stuff it did. 17200>6666, damage>no damage, stun>no stun. Even after the nerfs, I would trade Garbage Dumpster Bin for Arctic Bull**** in an instant, with or without passives; believe me, you don't want to bring up GDB as a comparison. DK still doesn't even have a heal scaling off %Max HP.

zvavi wrote: »

Arctic wind was not stronger than it should be (costwise, 4320 mag for 25% heal +3% heal per sec). The amount of healing and buffs it provided was inline with other class heals, for comparison necro heal heals at least as much as arctic wind, but has 30%+ lower cost, sorc heal heals for 30% of max health and has 20% less cost, NB heal situationally stronger and has lower cost, green dragon blood is 33% of your missing health (which means that on 40% health it is stronger than the new arctic wind) and procs *** tons of dk passives, like healing taken (same cost though) Templar tank looks very strong next patch too heal looks interesting next patch too, and I am excited to dust my Templar tank.

Arctic Blast is 4050 Magicka. You compared GDB to Arctic Blast but conveniently left out the part where Arctic Blast also grants a 15% HP HOT on top of the 20% burst heal and everything else it does, and that's after being nerfed. Even if you had 100% of your health missing (which means you're dead, btw), GDB would still heal less even now; 33% missing health will never be more than 35% Max HP. Burning Heart does not retroactively apply to GDB's heal, you must have a DP skill active for it to affect the healing on GDB.

Still, ZOS should have kept the healing and put the damage+stun+cost reduction on the other morph. Instead of all on one.

Brrrofski

Arbit wrote: »

I just pugged a vMoS today and I needed that heal so badly. It saved me when the healer was dead for half the boss fights with trees included of course. I needed that ability to help survive a and help my teammates with that heal. It might be overtuned for pvp, but as someone who doesn’t give a flying pancake about pvp, I just find myself looking at my warden tank and as usual cursing the pvp community. Where this really strikes hard is gonna be where you have pick up groups. Just like today for me, where I find myself with many inexperienced players and with ZOS taking away some of my most important survivability skills in my kit. I guess I’m just gonna need to build selfish from now on, because if it’s not in our kit anymore I’m going to have to look elsewhere.

It's overturned for pve as well though.

And it'll still be overturned for pve after this need, if you compare it to other heals.

Togal

Rely on a healer to heal you, your job is to tank not heal boi.

zvavi

Sangwyne wrote: »

sirpz wrote: »

god no, do you have any understanding about how god awful the sustain is on warden dps? even with netch wardens have some of the worst sustain of any class, making their only sustain ability cost resources is a terrible idea

What a joke. Warden has the best sustain in the game, it's obvious to everyone. Inexpensive or free skills, a free Major Sorcery and Brutality buff that also grants sustain and purges, and 250 Magicka/Stamina per second from Nature's Gift.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563487/pve-what-class-got-the-worst-sustain/p1
I'm sure that Warden players here will just vote for their main to skew the results, but at the time of posting this poll had 3 votes for Warden having the worst sustain out of 160 total. DK alone had more than every other class combined, 54%.

zvavi wrote: »

It ain't 37% mate, initial heal goes down from 25% of max health to 20%, and heal HoT goes down to 2.5% from 3%. Generally 20% is a good estimation to the amount of healing loss. i would argue though that the warden heal was the most expensive one of all classes, and it makes no sense for it to be weaker as well. the only heal which is the same cost is green dragon blood and with these changes it is superior to it by all means (especially with all the dk passives that comes with it). with these changes they need to lower the cost of arctic wind and morphs by 25%.

Arctic Blast was busted, don't even try to compare it to GDB. A 25% Max HP burst heal, 18% Max HP HOT, AOE DOT scaling off Warden's 10% Frost increase, AOE 4s unblockable stun, with 300% the chance to proc Chilled, Minor Maim, Minor Brittle + Glacial Presence for 20% more critical damage, and it's cheaper than GDB too, by several hundred Magicka. GDB meanwhile is the only heal in the game scaling off missing health, meaning that a half-dead 40k HP DK would need to spend more Magicka to heal for a measly 6666 compared to a 40k HP Warden spending less to heal for 10000 immediately and another 5000 over 5s, along with all the other stuff it did. 15000>6666, damage>no damage, stun>no stun. Even after the nerfs, I would trade Garbage Dumpster Bin for Arctic Bull**** in a heartbeat; believe me, you don't want to bring up GDB as a comparison. DK still doesn't even have a heal scaling off %Max HP.

zvavi wrote: »

Arctic wind was not stronger than it should be (costwise, 4320 mag for 25% heal +3% heal per sec). The amount of healing and buffs it provided was inline with other class heals, for comparison necro heal heals at least as much as arctic wind, but has 30%+ lower cost, sorc heal heals for 30% of max health and has 20% less cost, NB heal situationally stronger and has lower cost, green dragon blood is 33% of your missing health (which means that on 40% health it is stronger than the new arctic wind) and procs *** tons of dk passives, like healing taken (same cost though) Templar tank looks very strong next patch too heal looks interesting next patch too, and I am excited to dust my Templar tank.

Arctic Blast is 4050 Magicka. You conveniently left out the part where Arctic Blast also grants a 15% HP HOT on top of the 20% burst heal and everything else it does, and that's after being nerfed. Even if you had 100% of your health missing (which means you're dead, btw), GDB would still heal less even now; 33% missing health will never be more than 35% Max HP.

1. Cost is 4320. dont bring your imperial warden to a discussion about ability costs.
2. The originial HoT is 15%. the hot is from second 1 to 5. 5 heals. On pts it is 12.5%. and I didn't leave it out.
3. Green dragon blood gives you 20% healing taken. 8% from minor vitality, and 12% from class passives. which means that again, on top of the burst heal being as strong than the original arctic at 40%, yes, i would prefer 20% healing taken for the next 23 seconds, instead of the 5 seconds small HoT. both are in my opinion were more or less balanced with each other (especially since you have other heal sources).
4. I did conveniently left the damage part out. But this is a PvE tank thread, not a PvP thread, and that damage did nothing for the tank so, I left it out.
5. Even with the warden passives, and ice staff, and cp, the bonus 360% chilled proc you are getting, ups it from 1% to 4.6% per hit. I am very sorry, but that 4.6% per hit, when you have a total of 5 hits, you still have 79% to not proc chilled at all every cast of it, which is way too low to even consider when talking about skill balance. for the same reason I left out the recovery passives when talking about GDB.
6. If we are comparing total healing of skill then nb must have been the strongest, since it had a total of 54% heal, lol.

Conclusion: after nerf warden heal costs too much for what it does.

Look, I gave my opinion, after taking in account the experience I have tanking with all classes in PvE, you might disagree with me, but don't put words in my mouth (saying I left out the HoT, even though I didn't, even in the part you quoted), nor spread misinformation. :waves:

Togal wrote: »

Rely on a healer to heal you, your job is to tank not heal boi.

Ye, cause the least played role needs to be a dependent on healer wet sponge that can't survive by itself, that will make more people play it for sure! Who doesn't like depending on other pugs people to survive!

Stahlor

Not to forget, that a warden tank is always squishier than a dk tank, since they don't have ignious shield and a 12s-oh-*** immortality ultimate.

Togal wrote: »

Rely on a healer to heal you, your job is to tank not heal boi.

So put your self heal, shield and pale order ring in the bin - DD boi!

madrab73

If the change to Crimson goes live, tanks will be able to solo a lot of content

Sangwyne

zvavi wrote: »

1. Cost is 4320. dont bring your imperial warden to a discussion about ability costs.
2. The originial HoT is 15%. the hot is from second 1 to 5. 5 heals. On pts it is 12.5%. and I didn't leave it out.
3. Green dragon blood gives you 20% healing taken. 8% from minor vitality, and 12% from class passives. which means that again, on top of the burst heal being as strong than the original arctic at 40%, yes, i would prefer 20% healing taken for the next 23 seconds, instead of the 5 seconds small HoT. both are in my opinion were more or less balanced with each other (especially since you have other heal sources).
4. I did conveniently left the damage part out. But this is a tank thread, not a PvP thread, and that damage did nothing for the tank so, I left it out.
5. Even with the warden passives, and ice staff, and cp, the bonus 360% chilled proc you are getting, ups it from 1% to 4.6% per hit. I am very sorry, but that 4.6% per hit, when you have a total of 5 hits, you still have 79% to not proc chilled at all every cast of it, which is way too low to even consider when talking about skill balance. for the same reason I left out the recovery passives when talking about GDB.
6. If we are comparing total healing of skill then nb must have been the strongest, since it had a total of 54% heal, lol.

1. Again, Arctic Blast is 4050. Or are you trying to compare GDB, a morphed skill, to Arctic Wind, an unmorphed skill?
2. Alright. Thought it was 6 ticks with one instantly like other HOTs. Maybe I'm just used to Cauterize.
3. Those are not retroactive. Neither of those passives actually apply to the healing from GDB unless you have activated it recently. And even if you have, 20% increase to GDB when at 40% is literally just 4% of Max HP {0.2x[0.33x(100-40)]=4}; 4% isn't remotely comparable to 15% of Max HP.
4. So you left out the damage and stun and 15% HOT and proccing passives and being cheaper, but don't want to leave out the extra 4% Max Health only if reactivating GDB back to back? The point was that it was nerfed for PvP.
5. Fair, although Flawless Ritual is currently 150%.
6. That's probably why they nerfed it. Also why they nerfed Arctic Blast; it had way too much free stuff tacked on.

Like I said, even after the nerf I would trade GDB in an instant for Arctic Blast. Would you? Be honest.

zvavi wrote: »

don't put words in my mouth (saying I left out the HoT, even though I didn't, even in the part you quoted), nor spread misinformation. :waves:

You claimed GDB was better than nerfed Arctic Blast as a whole, but only below 40% health, and left out the HOT and everything else. If you meant just the burst heal, say that. Can't pick and choose parts that fit your narrative. That's like me trying to say Arctic Blast is stronger than GDB at 100% HP.

zvavi wrote: »

the only heal which is the same cost is green dragon blood and with these changes it is superior to it by all means (especially with all the dk passives that comes with it)

zvavi wrote: »

green dragon blood is 33% of your missing health (which means that on 40% health it is stronger than the new arctic wind) and procs *** tons of dk passives, like healing taken (same cost though)

I'm not a fan of nerfing tank heals, but Arctic Blast was overtuned, and everyone knew it. Can't have a skill be the swiss army knife of heals and expect it to be good at stunning, damage, burst healing, healing over time, and proccing passives, while cheaper than comparable skills that only burst heal+proc passives. I personally think the morphs should have been split and Arctic Blast should have just stunned and dealt damage, while Polar Wind should have healed for as much as it used to. That way tanks wouldn't have had to suffer another nerf and people abusing it would have had to make a more difficult decision.

Stahlor

Sangwyne wrote: »

I personally think the morphs should have been split and Arctic Blast should have just stunned and dealt damage, while Polar Wind should have healed for as much as it used to. That way tanks wouldn't have had to suffer another nerf and people abusing it would have had to make a more difficult decision.

That's a great suggestion!

Stahlor

madrab73 wrote: »

If the change to Crimson goes live, tanks will be able to solo a lot of content

It's not about tank soloing - it's about end game content tanking for semi-optimised groups, that are still learning. So basically 95% of the trial teams.

Grandchamp1989

Sangwyne used to be the new cool kid in team tank
Then he ditched us at our lowest and went to his new alliance in the PVP nerfers
But Sangwyne doesn't realize this crowd is never be satisfied, and will never truly embrace him until everything is nerfed.
Sangwyne will stand idle by in a laggy zone punching dirt for 1 dmg one day remembering the fun times he had in team tank
Sangwyne will be missed

Poppa ain't angry.. Poppa is disapointed

EpicHero

Let's nerf tanks some more, because there is already to many people playing them...

#boggle

Sangwyne

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Sangwyne used to be the new cool kid in team tank
Then he ditched us at our lowest and went to his new alliance in the PVP nerfers
But Sangwyne doesn't realize this crowd is never be satisfied, and will never truly embrace him until everything is nerfed.
Sangwyne will stand idle by in a laggy zone punching dirt for 1 dmg one day remembering the fun times he had in team tank
Sangwyne will be missed

Poppa ain't angry.. Poppa is disapointed

:<

That hurts deep, man. I don't think NB or Warden's heal should have been nerfed, just the extraneous stuff about damage and stunning moved and made into a new morph so the PvP crowd will leave us alone. Do I think they'd actually leave tanks alone afterwards? Maybe. I don't know. But regardless of what I think, Heavy armor being nerfed, %HP heals being nerfed, HP regen being nerfed, tank CP stars being nerfed, the healing from proc sets being nerfed, all of that stems from complaints in PvP. I don't want to see us gutted yet again on the whims of PvP and I am tired of having zero say in any of the changes. I've made post after post about the current state of tanks, on PTS Feedback threads, the PTS, in Combat Mechanics, in General Discussion, and nothing works because no one sees them. My very first post took several hours and 2872 words to explain in detail the issues with tanks and was read by maybe 10 people before being buried beneath the weight of so many nerf threads. Players don't even click on the post if the title has anything to do with tanks since they don't play or care about tanks. And so the 10 of us make post after post on how tanks are suffering and the only people who read it are the other 9, and meanwhile ZOS reads a 30 page rant thread on why Health Regen is actually the root cause of all suffering in the game and they nerf it. And then the new thread pops up about Shields, or Health, or Tri-Pots, or Bewitched Sugar Skulls. And ZOS nerfs those too. And all the while we're trying so desperately to be heard and no one cares because ZOS only caters to the majority. All of us just screaming endlessly into the void.

I just want to have our voices heard, man. My main is still DK tank. That hasn't changed. Please take me back. :<

zvavi

Sangwyne wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

1. Cost is 4320. dont bring your imperial warden to a discussion about ability costs.
2. The originial HoT is 15%. the hot is from second 1 to 5. 5 heals. On pts it is 12.5%. and I didn't leave it out.
3. Green dragon blood gives you 20% healing taken. 8% from minor vitality, and 12% from class passives. which means that again, on top of the burst heal being as strong than the original arctic at 40%, yes, i would prefer 20% healing taken for the next 23 seconds, instead of the 5 seconds small HoT. both are in my opinion were more or less balanced with each other (especially since you have other heal sources).
4. I did conveniently left the damage part out. But this is a tank thread, not a PvP thread, and that damage did nothing for the tank so, I left it out.
5. Even with the warden passives, and ice staff, and cp, the bonus 360% chilled proc you are getting, ups it from 1% to 4.6% per hit. I am very sorry, but that 4.6% per hit, when you have a total of 5 hits, you still have 79% to not proc chilled at all every cast of it, which is way too low to even consider when talking about skill balance. for the same reason I left out the recovery passives when talking about GDB.
6. If we are comparing total healing of skill then nb must have been the strongest, since it had a total of 54% heal, lol.

1. Again, Arctic Blast is 4050. Or are you trying to compare GDB, a morphed skill, to Arctic Wind, an unmorphed skill?
2. Alright. Thought it was 6 ticks with one instantly like other HOTs. Maybe I'm just used to Cauterize.
3. Those are not retroactive. Neither of those passives actually apply to the healing from GDB unless you have activated it recently. And even if you have, 20% increase to GDB when at 40% is literally just 4% of Max HP {0.2x[0.33x(100-40)]=4}; 4% isn't remotely comparable to 15% of Max HP.
4. So you left out the damage and stun and 15% HOT and proccing passives and being cheaper, but don't want to leave out the extra 4% Max Health only if reactivating GDB back to back? The point was that it was nerfed for PvP.
5. Fair, although Flawless Ritual is currently 150%.
6. That's probably why they nerfed it. Also why they nerfed Arctic Blast; it had way too much free stuff tacked on.

Like I said, even after the nerf I would trade GDB in an instant for Arctic Blast. Would you? Be honest.

zvavi wrote: »

don't put words in my mouth (saying I left out the HoT, even though I didn't, even in the part you quoted), nor spread misinformation. :waves:

You claimed GDB was better than nerfed Arctic Blast as a whole, but only below 40% health, and left out the HOT and everything else. If you meant just the burst heal, say that. Can't pick and choose parts that fit your narrative. That's like me trying to say Arctic Blast is stronger than GDB at 100% HP.

zvavi wrote: »

the only heal which is the same cost is green dragon blood and with these changes it is superior to it by all means (especially with all the dk passives that comes with it)

zvavi wrote: »

green dragon blood is 33% of your missing health (which means that on 40% health it is stronger than the new arctic wind) and procs *** tons of dk passives, like healing taken (same cost though)

I'm not a fan of nerfing tank heals, but Arctic Blast was overtuned, and everyone knew it. Can't have a skill be the swiss army knife of heals and expect it to be good at stunning, damage, burst healing, healing over time, and proccing passives, while cheaper than comparable skills that only burst heal+proc passives. I personally think the morphs should have been split and Arctic Blast should have just stunned and dealt damage, while Polar Wind should have healed for as much as it used to. That way tanks wouldn't have had to suffer another nerf and people abusing it would have had to make a more difficult decision.

1.
2. u r.
3. ye, if you activated it in the last 23!!! seconds, which, is usually the case, especially in harder dungeons where *** hits you hard enough for you to use it a lot.
4. I didnt leave out the hot. nor it is cheaper. your point is that it was nerfed for PvP, good for you, now it is underpreforming in PvE. The thing which is the thread about.
5. flawless ritual was 150% on pts during testing. it is 60% on live.
6. and now the templar tank heal is 120% of your max health over 20 seconds... yeeeeeee they are nerfing things cause nb tanks were so popular(lol)
7. I claimed GDB is better as a whole after the arctic wind nerf. in PvE I never use my burst heal unless I am low on health, since I have my other HoT sources ticking, so since I dont use it when I am above 50% health anyway, so conversation about how it is more useful when you are high on health is mute. also, as I already explained, I prefer the other things that come with GDB on the HoT from polar wind.

confettibae

Artic wind is the only class heal worth having on my magdens (dps) bar. I was considering respeccing that char to tank since it really doesn’t compete with the dps my other mag chars can do, magplar healer included, but it looks like I’ll just be using her as a crafter until the next patch and hope they fix.

Super disappointing. I guess I’m lucky we just had an xp event so I have other leveled characters to play on.

Grandchamp1989

Sangwyne wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Sangwyne used to be the new cool kid in team tank
Then he ditched us at our lowest and went to his new alliance in the PVP nerfers
But Sangwyne doesn't realize this crowd is never be satisfied, and will never truly embrace him until everything is nerfed.
Sangwyne will stand idle by in a laggy zone punching dirt for 1 dmg one day remembering the fun times he had in team tank
Sangwyne will be missed

Poppa ain't angry.. Poppa is disapointed

:<

That hurts deep, man. I don't think NB or Warden's heal should have been nerfed, just the extraneous stuff about damage and stunning moved and made into a new morph so the PvP crowd will leave us alone. Do I think they'd actually leave tanks alone afterwards? Maybe. I don't know. But regardless of what I think, Heavy armor being nerfed, %HP heals being nerfed, HP regen being nerfed, tank CP stars being nerfed, the healing from proc sets being nerfed, all of that stems from complaints in PvP. I don't want to see us gutted yet again on the whims of PvP and I am tired of having zero say in any of the changes. I've made post after post about the current state of tanks, on PTS Feedback threads, the PTS, in Combat Mechanics, in General Discussion, and nothing works because no one sees them. My very first post took several hours and 2872 words to explain in detail the issues with tanks and was read by maybe 10 people before being buried beneath the weight of so many nerf threads. Players don't even click on the post if the title has anything to do with tanks since they don't play or care about tanks. And so the 10 of us make post after post on how tanks are suffering and the only people who read it are the other 9, and meanwhile ZOS reads a 30 page rant thread on why Health Regen is actually the root cause of all suffering in the game and they nerf it. And then the new thread pops up about Shields, or Health, or Tri-Pots, or Bewitched Sugar Skulls. And ZOS nerfs those too. And all the while we're trying so desperately to be heard and no one cares because ZOS only caters to the majority. All of us just screaming endlessly into the void.

I just want to have our voices heard, man. My main is still DK tank. That hasn't changed. Please take me back. :<

Brrrofski

Has anyone actually tested this on PTS before coming here and saying it's killed the skill?

It's the base, so think you'll find it works out way less of a nerf than everyone is speculating.

Stahlor

Brrrofski wrote: »

Has anyone actually tested this on PTS before coming here and saying it's killed the skill?

It's the base, so think you'll find it works out way less of a nerf than everyone is speculating.

It for sure doesn't kill the skill, since it's your only reliable warden tank heal anyway. However it's another PVE tank nerf, while PVP will still have the same issues with that skill - heal, stun, damage. status effect...

Sangwyne

zvavi wrote: »

...That's the completely wrong morph? Should I compare Arctic Blast to Coagulating Blood, then?

Look, man, GDB just needs a buff. It's the only heal in the game scaling off missing health instead of max health. That idea just doesn't work, we don't scale shields off how little current Magicka you have. By the time you are low enough to have GDB not be a waste of 4320 Magicka, you're dead, because being in execute range is just a death sentence in PvP, or anywhere else for that matter. The goal is to not drop that low in the first place. ZOS, please just finally buff the skill. And the rest of DK too.

zvavi

Sangwyne wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

...That's the completely wrong morph? Should I compare Arctic Blast to Coagulating Blood, then?

Look, man, GDB just needs a buff. It's the only heal in the game scaling off missing health instead of max health. That idea just doesn't work, we don't scale shields off how little current Magicka you have. By the time you are low enough to have GDB not be a waste of 4320 Magicka, you're dead, because being in execute range is just a death sentence in PvP, or anywhere else for that matter. The goal is to not drop that low in the first place. ZOS, please just finally buff the skill. And the rest of DK too.

it is the support morph! but ye, blast is a bit cheaper. and again, PvE thread. not PvP. and GDB is a PvE skill, not PvP.

Brrrofski

Stahlor wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Has anyone actually tested this on PTS before coming here and saying it's killed the skill?

It's the base, so think you'll find it works out way less of a nerf than everyone is speculating.

It for sure doesn't kill the skill, since it's your only reliable warden tank heal anyway. However it's another PVE tank nerf, while PVP will still have the same issues with that skill - heal, stun, damage. status effect...

I've seen plenty of people say "kill the skill" in numerous threads.

That's not my words, as I think it's a very very small nerf to the skill in PvE.

Nobody has actually posted number still, so with a lot of these "omg this is nerfed" type posts, it usually is a LOT less than people think.

Stahlor

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Has anyone actually tested this on PTS before coming here and saying it's killed the skill?

It's the base, so think you'll find it works out way less of a nerf than everyone is speculating.

It for sure doesn't kill the skill, since it's your only reliable warden tank heal anyway. However it's another PVE tank nerf, while PVP will still have the same issues with that skill - heal, stun, damage. status effect...

I've seen plenty of people say "kill the skill" in numerous threads.

That's not my words, as I think it's a very very small nerf to the skill in PvE.

Nobody has actually posted number still, so with a lot of these "omg this is nerfed" type posts, it usually is a LOT less than people think.

It's another PVE tank nerf, continuing a long list of these nerfs for months/years.

Mojmir

Its my fault, i mentioned somewhere i run a nightblade tank.

mobicera

I'm not really sure this is going to really change anything for me.
I mean I would have personally preferred the extras of this skill to even be removed before the heal nerf, but then I don't give a rat's ass about pvp lol.
So remove the stun from 1 morph ,reduce the extra heal from the other seems to be the more sensible option, but again I dunno people would still complain.

But umm I don't feel weaker as a tank in cp 2.0, umm not at all.
Sustain took a hit this is all.
Mitigation is honestly a bit op right now and really the sustain hit in 2.0 just means I'm not over sustaining and actually need to pay attention to it again lol.

I'm not really sure all these "tank nerfs, killed pve tank threads" are not just an overreaction to not wanting to adapt.

Have you seen a marked breath in vss now?
You don't need gaurd, you don't need immovable, you don't need tank swap, you just eat it...
Mitigation is simply to high on pve tanks.

BXR_Lonestar

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Warden:
Winter’s Embrace
Arctic Wind: Reduced the base heal of this ability and its morphs by 20% and the Heal over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 17%.

Nightblade:
Shadow
Shadow Cloak
Dark Cloak (morph): Reduced the healing from this morph by approximately 5%.

While I appreciate you giving Templars some tools to finally be worthwhile, why do the other tank classes have to suffer? Wasn't there really any other way to balance this for PVP than to lower Tank healing?

Wasn't it enough to nerf out block cost, roll dodge cost, block mitigation and standard mitigation further this upcoming patch?

Zos hostile approach to a role that BARELY exist anymore I will never understand. I guess they're figured nobody want to play it anymore so they added bots to start doing the role.

What did they do to templars?