I just pugged a vMoS today and I needed that heal so badly. It saved me when the healer was dead for half the boss fights with trees included of course. I needed that ability to help survive a and help my teammates with that heal. It might be overtuned for pvp, but as someone who doesn’t give a flying pancake about pvp, I just find myself looking at my warden tank and as usual cursing the pvp community. Where this really strikes hard is gonna be where you have pick up groups. Just like today for me, where I find myself with many inexperienced players and with ZOS taking away some of my most important survivability skills in my kit. I guess I’m just gonna need to build selfish from now on, because if it’s not in our kit anymore I’m going to have to look elsewhere.
god no, do you have any understanding about how god awful the sustain is on warden dps? even with netch wardens have some of the worst sustain of any class, making their only sustain ability cost resources is a terrible idea
It ain't 37% mate, initial heal goes down from 25% of max health to 20%, and heal HoT goes down to 2.5% from 3%. Generally 20% is a good estimation to the amount of healing loss. i would argue though that the warden heal was the most expensive one of all classes, and it makes no sense for it to be weaker as well. the only heal which is the same cost is green dragon blood and with these changes it is superior to it by all means (especially with all the dk passives that comes with it). with these changes they need to lower the cost of arctic wind and morphs by 25%.
Arctic wind was not stronger than it should be (costwise, 4320 mag for 25% heal +3% heal per sec). The amount of healing and buffs it provided was inline with other class heals, for comparison necro heal heals at least as much as arctic wind, but has 30%+ lower cost, sorc heal heals for 30% of max health and has 20% less cost, NB heal situationally stronger and has lower cost, green dragon blood is 33% of your missing health (which means that on 40% health it is stronger than the new arctic wind) and procs *** tons of dk passives, like healing taken (same cost though) Templar tank looks very strong next patch too heal looks interesting next patch too, and I am excited to dust my Templar tank.
I just pugged a vMoS today and I needed that heal so badly. It saved me when the healer was dead for half the boss fights with trees included of course. I needed that ability to help survive a and help my teammates with that heal. It might be overtuned for pvp, but as someone who doesn’t give a flying pancake about pvp, I just find myself looking at my warden tank and as usual cursing the pvp community. Where this really strikes hard is gonna be where you have pick up groups. Just like today for me, where I find myself with many inexperienced players and with ZOS taking away some of my most important survivability skills in my kit. I guess I’m just gonna need to build selfish from now on, because if it’s not in our kit anymore I’m going to have to look elsewhere.
god no, do you have any understanding about how god awful the sustain is on warden dps? even with netch wardens have some of the worst sustain of any class, making their only sustain ability cost resources is a terrible idea
What a joke. Warden has the best sustain in the game, it's obvious to everyone. Inexpensive or free skills, a free Major Sorcery and Brutality buff that also grants sustain and purges, and 250 Magicka/Stamina per second from Nature's Gift.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563487/pve-what-class-got-the-worst-sustain/p1
I'm sure that Warden players here will just vote for their main to skew the results, but at the time of posting this poll had 3 votes for Warden having the worst sustain out of 160 total. DK alone had more than every other class combined, 54%.It ain't 37% mate, initial heal goes down from 25% of max health to 20%, and heal HoT goes down to 2.5% from 3%. Generally 20% is a good estimation to the amount of healing loss. i would argue though that the warden heal was the most expensive one of all classes, and it makes no sense for it to be weaker as well. the only heal which is the same cost is green dragon blood and with these changes it is superior to it by all means (especially with all the dk passives that comes with it). with these changes they need to lower the cost of arctic wind and morphs by 25%.
Arctic Blast was busted, don't even try to compare it to GDB. A 25% Max HP burst heal, 18% Max HP HOT, AOE DOT scaling off Warden's 10% Frost increase, AOE 4s unblockable stun, with 300% the chance to proc Chilled, Minor Maim, Minor Brittle + Glacial Presence for 20% more critical damage, and it's cheaper than GDB too, by several hundred Magicka. GDB meanwhile is the only heal in the game scaling off missing health, meaning that a half-dead 40k HP DK would need to spend more Magicka to heal for a measly 6666 compared to a 40k HP Warden spending less to heal for 10000 immediately and another 5000 over 5s, along with all the other stuff it did. 15000>6666, damage>no damage, stun>no stun. Even after the nerfs, I would trade Garbage Dumpster Bin for Arctic Bull**** in a heartbeat; believe me, you don't want to bring up GDB as a comparison. DK still doesn't even have a heal scaling off %Max HP.Arctic wind was not stronger than it should be (costwise, 4320 mag for 25% heal +3% heal per sec). The amount of healing and buffs it provided was inline with other class heals, for comparison necro heal heals at least as much as arctic wind, but has 30%+ lower cost, sorc heal heals for 30% of max health and has 20% less cost, NB heal situationally stronger and has lower cost, green dragon blood is 33% of your missing health (which means that on 40% health it is stronger than the new arctic wind) and procs *** tons of dk passives, like healing taken (same cost though) Templar tank looks very strong next patch too heal looks interesting next patch too, and I am excited to dust my Templar tank.
Arctic Blast is 4050 Magicka. You conveniently left out the part where Arctic Blast also grants a 15% HP HOT on top of the 20% burst heal and everything else it does, and that's after being nerfed. Even if you had 100% of your health missing (which means you're dead, btw), GDB would still heal less even now; 33% missing health will never be more than 35% Max HP.
Rely on a healer to heal you, your job is to tank not heal boi.
1. Again, Arctic Blast is 4050. Or are you trying to compare GDB, a morphed skill, to Arctic Wind, an unmorphed skill?1. Cost is 4320. dont bring your imperial warden to a discussion about ability costs.
2. The originial HoT is 15%. the hot is from second 1 to 5. 5 heals. On pts it is 12.5%. and I didn't leave it out.
3. Green dragon blood gives you 20% healing taken. 8% from minor vitality, and 12% from class passives. which means that again, on top of the burst heal being as strong than the original arctic at 40%, yes, i would prefer 20% healing taken for the next 23 seconds, instead of the 5 seconds small HoT. both are in my opinion were more or less balanced with each other (especially since you have other heal sources).
4. I did conveniently left the damage part out. But this is a tank thread, not a PvP thread, and that damage did nothing for the tank so, I left it out.
5. Even with the warden passives, and ice staff, and cp, the bonus 360% chilled proc you are getting, ups it from 1% to 4.6% per hit. I am very sorry, but that 4.6% per hit, when you have a total of 5 hits, you still have 79% to not proc chilled at all every cast of it, which is way too low to even consider when talking about skill balance. for the same reason I left out the recovery passives when talking about GDB.
6. If we are comparing total healing of skill then nb must have been the strongest, since it had a total of 54% heal, lol.
don't put words in my mouth (saying I left out the HoT, even though I didn't, even in the part you quoted), nor spread misinformation. :waves:
the only heal which is the same cost is green dragon blood and with these changes it is superior to it by all means (especially with all the dk passives that comes with it)
green dragon blood is 33% of your missing health (which means that on 40% health it is stronger than the new arctic wind) and procs *** tons of dk passives, like healing taken (same cost though)
I personally think the morphs should have been split and Arctic Blast should have just stunned and dealt damage, while Polar Wind should have healed for as much as it used to. That way tanks wouldn't have had to suffer another nerf and people abusing it would have had to make a more difficult decision.
Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Sangwyne used to be the new cool kid in team tank
Then he ditched us at our lowest and went to his new alliance in the PVP nerfers
But Sangwyne doesn't realize this crowd is never be satisfied, and will never truly embrace him until everything is nerfed.
Sangwyne will stand idle by in a laggy zone punching dirt for 1 dmg one day remembering the fun times he had in team tank
Sangwyne will be missed
Poppa ain't angry.. Poppa is disapointed
1. Again, Arctic Blast is 4050. Or are you trying to compare GDB, a morphed skill, to Arctic Wind, an unmorphed skill?1. Cost is 4320. dont bring your imperial warden to a discussion about ability costs.
2. The originial HoT is 15%. the hot is from second 1 to 5. 5 heals. On pts it is 12.5%. and I didn't leave it out.
3. Green dragon blood gives you 20% healing taken. 8% from minor vitality, and 12% from class passives. which means that again, on top of the burst heal being as strong than the original arctic at 40%, yes, i would prefer 20% healing taken for the next 23 seconds, instead of the 5 seconds small HoT. both are in my opinion were more or less balanced with each other (especially since you have other heal sources).
4. I did conveniently left the damage part out. But this is a tank thread, not a PvP thread, and that damage did nothing for the tank so, I left it out.
5. Even with the warden passives, and ice staff, and cp, the bonus 360% chilled proc you are getting, ups it from 1% to 4.6% per hit. I am very sorry, but that 4.6% per hit, when you have a total of 5 hits, you still have 79% to not proc chilled at all every cast of it, which is way too low to even consider when talking about skill balance. for the same reason I left out the recovery passives when talking about GDB.
6. If we are comparing total healing of skill then nb must have been the strongest, since it had a total of 54% heal, lol.
2. Alright. Thought it was 6 ticks with one instantly like other HOTs. Maybe I'm just used to Cauterize.
3. Those are not retroactive. Neither of those passives actually apply to the healing from GDB unless you have activated it recently. And even if you have, 20% increase to GDB when at 40% is literally just 4% of Max HP {0.2x[0.33x(100-40)]=4}; 4% isn't remotely comparable to 15% of Max HP.
4. So you left out the damage and stun and 15% HOT and proccing passives and being cheaper, but don't want to leave out the extra 4% Max Health only if reactivating GDB back to back? The point was that it was nerfed for PvP.
5. Fair, although Flawless Ritual is currently 150%.
6. That's probably why they nerfed it. Also why they nerfed Arctic Blast; it had way too much free stuff tacked on.
Like I said, even after the nerf I would trade GDB in an instant for Arctic Blast. Would you? Be honest.don't put words in my mouth (saying I left out the HoT, even though I didn't, even in the part you quoted), nor spread misinformation. :waves:
You claimed GDB was better than nerfed Arctic Blast as a whole, but only below 40% health, and left out the HOT and everything else. If you meant just the burst heal, say that. Can't pick and choose parts that fit your narrative. That's like me trying to say Arctic Blast is stronger than GDB at 100% HP.the only heal which is the same cost is green dragon blood and with these changes it is superior to it by all means (especially with all the dk passives that comes with it)green dragon blood is 33% of your missing health (which means that on 40% health it is stronger than the new arctic wind) and procs *** tons of dk passives, like healing taken (same cost though)
I'm not a fan of nerfing tank heals, but Arctic Blast was overtuned, and everyone knew it. Can't have a skill be the swiss army knife of heals and expect it to be good at stunning, damage, burst healing, healing over time, and proccing passives, while cheaper than comparable skills that only burst heal+proc passives. I personally think the morphs should have been split and Arctic Blast should have just stunned and dealt damage, while Polar Wind should have healed for as much as it used to. That way tanks wouldn't have had to suffer another nerf and people abusing it would have had to make a more difficult decision.
Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Sangwyne used to be the new cool kid in team tank
Then he ditched us at our lowest and went to his new alliance in the PVP nerfers
But Sangwyne doesn't realize this crowd is never be satisfied, and will never truly embrace him until everything is nerfed.
Sangwyne will stand idle by in a laggy zone punching dirt for 1 dmg one day remembering the fun times he had in team tank
Sangwyne will be missed
Poppa ain't angry.. Poppa is disapointed
:<
That hurts deep, man. I don't think NB or Warden's heal should have been nerfed, just the extraneous stuff about damage and stunning moved and made into a new morph so the PvP crowd will leave us alone. Do I think they'd actually leave tanks alone afterwards? Maybe. I don't know. But regardless of what I think, Heavy armor being nerfed, %HP heals being nerfed, HP regen being nerfed, tank CP stars being nerfed, the healing from proc sets being nerfed, all of that stems from complaints in PvP. I don't want to see us gutted yet again on the whims of PvP and I am tired of having zero say in any of the changes. I've made post after post about the current state of tanks, on PTS Feedback threads, the PTS, in Combat Mechanics, in General Discussion, and nothing works because no one sees them. My very first post took several hours and 2872 words to explain in detail the issues with tanks and was read by maybe 10 people before being buried beneath the weight of so many nerf threads. Players don't even click on the post if the title has anything to do with tanks since they don't play or care about tanks. And so the 10 of us make post after post on how tanks are suffering and the only people who read it are the other 9, and meanwhile ZOS reads a 30 page rant thread on why Health Regen is actually the root cause of all suffering in the game and they nerf it. And then the new thread pops up about Shields, or Health, or Tri-Pots, or Bewitched Sugar Skulls. And ZOS nerfs those too. And all the while we're trying so desperately to be heard and no one cares because ZOS only caters to the majority. All of us just screaming endlessly into the void.
I just want to have our voices heard, man. My main is still DK tank. That hasn't changed. Please take me back. :<
Has anyone actually tested this on PTS before coming here and saying it's killed the skill?
It's the base, so think you'll find it works out way less of a nerf than everyone is speculating.
...That's the completely wrong morph? Should I compare Arctic Blast to Coagulating Blood, then?
Look, man, GDB just needs a buff. It's the only heal in the game scaling off missing health instead of max health. That idea just doesn't work, we don't scale shields off how little current Magicka you have. By the time you are low enough to have GDB not be a waste of 4320 Magicka, you're dead, because being in execute range is just a death sentence in PvP, or anywhere else for that matter. The goal is to not drop that low in the first place. ZOS, please just finally buff the skill. And the rest of DK too.
Has anyone actually tested this on PTS before coming here and saying it's killed the skill?
It's the base, so think you'll find it works out way less of a nerf than everyone is speculating.
It for sure doesn't kill the skill, since it's your only reliable warden tank heal anyway. However it's another PVE tank nerf, while PVP will still have the same issues with that skill - heal, stun, damage. status effect...
Has anyone actually tested this on PTS before coming here and saying it's killed the skill?
It's the base, so think you'll find it works out way less of a nerf than everyone is speculating.
It for sure doesn't kill the skill, since it's your only reliable warden tank heal anyway. However it's another PVE tank nerf, while PVP will still have the same issues with that skill - heal, stun, damage. status effect...
I've seen plenty of people say "kill the skill" in numerous threads.
That's not my words, as I think it's a very very small nerf to the skill in PvE.
Nobody has actually posted number still, so with a lot of these "omg this is nerfed" type posts, it usually is a LOT less than people think.
Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Warden:
Winter’s Embrace
Arctic Wind: Reduced the base heal of this ability and its morphs by 20% and the Heal over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 17%.
Nightblade:
Shadow
Shadow Cloak
Dark Cloak (morph): Reduced the healing from this morph by approximately 5%.
While I appreciate you giving Templars some tools to finally be worthwhile, why do the other tank classes have to suffer? Wasn't there really any other way to balance this for PVP than to lower Tank healing?
Wasn't it enough to nerf out block cost, roll dodge cost, block mitigation and standard mitigation further this upcoming patch?
Zos hostile approach to a role that BARELY exist anymore I will never understand. I guess they're figured nobody want to play it anymore so they added bots to start doing the role.