Tank heal nerfs? Why?

Grandchamp1989

Warden:
Winter’s Embrace
Arctic Wind: Reduced the base heal of this ability and its morphs by 20% and the Heal over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 17%.

Nightblade:
Shadow
Shadow Cloak
Dark Cloak (morph): Reduced the healing from this morph by approximately 5%.

While I appreciate you giving Templars some tools to finally be worthwhile, why do the other tank classes have to suffer? Wasn't there really any other way to balance this for PVP than to lower Tank healing?

Wasn't it enough to nerf out block cost, roll dodge cost, block mitigation and standard mitigation further this upcoming patch?

It felt unnecessary.

Sangwyne

Warden was definitely out of line, and the change to Arctic Blast didn't fix that, but I don't understand why after months of Nightblade being a meme, the only change made to it over the entire patch notes was a nerf to a skill that practically no one uses. And by 5%? Really? Did they throw darts or something to see which Nightblade ability they would nerf this time? Feels extremely arbitrary, there's no developer comment regarding it or anything. I was really hoping for some class balance changes and was left disappointed yet again.

Glad to see that Templars now have a few %HP heals, although I'd like to issue a friendly reminder that DK is now the only class in the game without one, as their GDB scales off missing health instead for some reason. The difference between %missing and %max is quite large, as being in execute range is a death sentence in PvP, and even then the skill doesn't heal for much; there's no reason for GDB to be the only heal scaling off % missing health in the game when Stam DK already lacks so much healing and sustain.

ZOS also mentioned that they were adding a bunch of new support stars, but in reality they added two new BIS DPS stars when they've claimed their goal was to reduce top-end DPS instead of increasing it. The actual support stars are a joke and likely won't see use outside PvP, or all but the heal on purge inside PvP as well. And of course, what would the update be without a fresh new batch of nerfs to all the CP we've worked so hard to accumulate? Feels like we're all just building a sandcastle after each patch at this point.

Avoranti

Yeah, I don’t understand the reasoning behind the Warden and NB changes either. I use both classes as a tank in PvE and this with the increased cost to block and reduced mitigation, might start seeing a few more dead tanks. (Not me though, lol)

sharpshooter2342

They need to nerf or at least make it cost resources to cast Betty on wardens. It does too many things to be a free skill. No other class in game has a free way to get major sorcery. Betty has a cleanse, regen, heal and major sorcery all in one FREE skill. It's too strong and not in line with other class buffs.

Grandchamp1989

Sangwyne wrote: »

Warden was definitely out of line, and the change to Arctic Blast didn't fix that, but I don't understand why after months of Nightblade being a meme, the only change made to it over the entire patch notes was a nerf to a skill that practically no one uses. And by 5%? Really? Did they throw darts or something to see which Nightblade ability they would nerf this time? Feels extremely arbitrary, there's no developer comment regarding it or anything. I was really hoping for some class balance changes and was left disappointed yet again.

Glad to see that Templars now have a few %HP heals, although I'd like to issue a friendly reminder that DK is now the only class in the game without one, as their GDB scales off missing health instead for some reason. The difference between %missing and %max is quite large, as being in execute range is a death sentence in PvP, and even then the skill doesn't heal for much; there's no reason for GDB to be the only heal scaling off % missing health in the game when Stam DK already lacks so much healing and sustain.

ZOS also mentioned that they were adding a bunch of new support stars, but in reality they added two new BIS DPS stars when they've claimed their goal was to reduce top-end DPS instead of increasing it. The actual support stars are a joke and likely won't see use outside PvP, or all but the heal on purge inside PvP as well. And of course, what would the update be without a fresh new batch of nerfs to all the CP we've worked so hard to accumulate? Feels like we're all just building a sandcastle after each patch at this point.

20% healing lost on Warden Tanks next patch

What... on.... earth are they thinking?

And a 5% nerf to NB tank healing... Who even play those anymore? It is the most RANDOM nerf.

If they wanted to tone down Warden for PVP why not deal with the dmg & stun effect on the healing ability? That could easily be dealt with without nerfing the Warden heal with 20%. On top of that healing support sets like Hiti, Winter's Respite and Earthgore now scale with max stats and will be another nerf.

I can't... No sure why I bother maybe I'll just be a healer from now on.

PS Zvavi is a Saddle-goose

Jeremy

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Warden:
Winter’s Embrace
Arctic Wind: Reduced the base heal of this ability and its morphs by 20% and the Heal over Time from this ability and its morphs by approximately 17%.

Nightblade:
Shadow
Shadow Cloak
Dark Cloak (morph): Reduced the healing from this morph by approximately 5%.

While I appreciate you giving Templars some tools to finally be worthwhile, why do the other tank classes have to suffer? Wasn't there really any other way to balance this for PVP than to lower Tank healing?

Wasn't it enough to nerf out block cost, roll dodge cost, block mitigation and standard mitigation further this upcoming patch?

Zos hostile approach to a role that BARELY exist anymore I will never understand. I guess they're figured nobody want to play it anymore so they added bots to start doing the role.

What are they giving to Templar? Because God knows Templar tanks need something...

But I agree with you. This game is downright hostile to tanks. It isn't any wonder no one wants to play them. If you really want to see a sick joke, try playing one in a battleground. haha

sirpz

Sharpshootet2342 wrote: »

They need to nerf or at least make it cost resources to cast Betty on wardens. It does too many things to be a free skill. No other class in game has a free way to get major sorcery. Betty has a cleanse, regen, heal and major sorcery all in one FREE skill. It's too strong and not in line with other class buffs.

god no, do you have any understanding about how god awful the sustain is on warden dps? even with netch wardens have some of the worst sustain of any class, making their only sustain ability cost resources is a terrible idea

Grandchamp1989

Sharpshootet2342 wrote: »

They need to nerf or at least make it cost resources to cast Betty on wardens. It does too many things to be a free skill. No other class in game has a free way to get major sorcery. Betty has a cleanse, regen, heal and major sorcery all in one FREE skill. It's too strong and not in line with other class buffs.

Yes lets do that. Screw the betty.

While we're at it we can nerf the healing with 99% and.... ice foretress.. Who really needs major resolve? Nerf it to minor resolve. And the minor protection... Make it give the user minor defile instead, so his healing is gimped further.

No need to give Wardens a slow painful existance in Tamriel when we can just put a nerf bullet between its eyes and be done with it in one patch.

I'm with you.

Jeremy

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Sharpshootet2342 wrote: »

They need to nerf or at least make it cost resources to cast Betty on wardens. It does too many things to be a free skill. No other class in game has a free way to get major sorcery. Betty has a cleanse, regen, heal and major sorcery all in one FREE skill. It's too strong and not in line with other class buffs.

Yes lets do that. Screw the betty.

While we're at it we can nerf the healing with 99% and.... ice foretress.. Who really needs major resolve? Nerf it to minor resolve. And the minor protection... Make it give the user minor defile instead, so his healing is gimped further.

No need to give Wardens a slow painful existance in Tamriel when we can just put a nerf bullet between its eyes and be done with it in one patch.

I'm with you.

They already did nerf major resolve into minor resolve I think... haha

zvavi

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

Warden was definitely out of line, and the change to Arctic Blast didn't fix that, but I don't understand why after months of Nightblade being a meme, the only change made to it over the entire patch notes was a nerf to a skill that practically no one uses. And by 5%? Really? Did they throw darts or something to see which Nightblade ability they would nerf this time? Feels extremely arbitrary, there's no developer comment regarding it or anything. I was really hoping for some class balance changes and was left disappointed yet again.

Glad to see that Templars now have a few %HP heals, although I'd like to issue a friendly reminder that DK is now the only class in the game without one, as their GDB scales off missing health instead for some reason. The difference between %missing and %max is quite large, as being in execute range is a death sentence in PvP, and even then the skill doesn't heal for much; there's no reason for GDB to be the only heal scaling off % missing health in the game when Stam DK already lacks so much healing and sustain.

ZOS also mentioned that they were adding a bunch of new support stars, but in reality they added two new BIS DPS stars when they've claimed their goal was to reduce top-end DPS instead of increasing it. The actual support stars are a joke and likely won't see use outside PvP, or all but the heal on purge inside PvP as well. And of course, what would the update be without a fresh new batch of nerfs to all the CP we've worked so hard to accumulate? Feels like we're all just building a sandcastle after each patch at this point.

37% healing lost on Warden Tanks next patch
A further 9% mitigation lost from preperation, fortification, hardy/elemental

What... on.... earth are they thinking?

And a 5% nerf to NB tank healing... Who even play those anymore? It is the most RANDOM nerf.

If they wanted to tone down Warden for PVP why not deal with the dmg & stun effect on the healing ability? That could easily be dealt with without nerfing the Warden heal with 37%. On top of that healing support sets like Hiti, Winter's Respite and Earthgore now scale with max stats and will be another nerf.

I can't... No sure why I bother maybe I'll just be a healer from now on.

It ain't 37% mate, initial heal goes down from 25% of max health to 20%, and heal HoT goes down to 2.5% from 3%. Generally 20% is a good estimation to the amount of healing loss. i would argue though that the warden heal was the most expensive one of all classes, and it makes no sense for it to be weaker as well. the only heal which is the same cost is green dragon blood and with these changes it is superior to it by all means (especially with all the dk passives that comes with it). with these changes they need to lower the cost of arctic wind and morphs by 25%.

Also, preparation was buffed from 8% total to 10% total (5% per stage 2 stages)

Brrrofski

To be fair, Arctic blast in PVE was critting for like 25k plus on my warden tank. That is pretty high.

To the point that I argue it is unnecessary to heal that much from one cast.

Dark cloak is completely senseless though.

Grandchamp1989

Brrrofski wrote: »

To be fair, Arctic blast in PVE was critting for like 25k plus on my warden tank. That is pretty high.

To the point that I argue it is unnecessary to heal that much from one cast.

Dark cloak is completely senseless though.

Crit on my tanks is like 15% fat chance that's gonna proc on the main portion of the heal when I'm about to be slapped around, while my healer is asleep by his keyboard and my DDs are about to light attack their way to succes.

Actually, with my luck there's a higher chance of me getting desynch on my block, I think.

But that's ESO tanking for you, russian roulette.

Do I get the crit I need or do I get smashed in the head by a minotaur, due to bad performance? Find out NEXT TIME on the exciting new edition of "The Zos Server"

Brrrofski

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

To be fair, Arctic blast in PVE was critting for like 25k plus on my warden tank. That is pretty high.

To the point that I argue it is unnecessary to heal that much from one cast.

Dark cloak is completely senseless though.

Crit on my tanks is like 15% fat chance that's gonna proc on the main portion of the heal when I'm about to be slapped around, while my healer is asleep by his keyboard and my DDs are about to light attack their way to succes.

Actually, with my luck there's a higher chance of me getting desynch on my block, I think.

But that's ESO tanking for you, russian roulette.

Do I get the crit I need or do I get smashed in the head by a minotaur, due to bad performance? Find out NEXT TIME on the exciting new edition of "The Zos Server"

So bad teammates and server performance means we should keep skills in that are stronger than they should be?

Even on non crits it heals SO much.

I don't see the need to this skill having that much of an effect in PvE.

Grandchamp1989

Brrrofski wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

To be fair, Arctic blast in PVE was critting for like 25k plus on my warden tank. That is pretty high.

To the point that I argue it is unnecessary to heal that much from one cast.

Dark cloak is completely senseless though.

Crit on my tanks is like 15% fat chance that's gonna proc on the main portion of the heal when I'm about to be slapped around, while my healer is asleep by his keyboard and my DDs are about to light attack their way to succes.

Actually, with my luck there's a higher chance of me getting desynch on my block, I think.

But that's ESO tanking for you, russian roulette.

Do I get the crit I need or do I get smashed in the head by a minotaur, due to bad performance? Find out NEXT TIME on the exciting new edition of "The Zos Server"

So bad teammates and server performance means we should keep skills in that are stronger than they should be?

Even on non crits it heals SO much.

I don't see the need to this skill having that much of an effect in PvE.

15% chance of the main portion of the heal with crit the second you're about to die.

You really think those odds are enough to nerf the healing?

If the main portion of the heal pops that's due to shear LUCK. You want tanking to be luck based? XD

Brrrofski

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

To be fair, Arctic blast in PVE was critting for like 25k plus on my warden tank. That is pretty high.

To the point that I argue it is unnecessary to heal that much from one cast.

Dark cloak is completely senseless though.

Crit on my tanks is like 15% fat chance that's gonna proc on the main portion of the heal when I'm about to be slapped around, while my healer is asleep by his keyboard and my DDs are about to light attack their way to succes.

Actually, with my luck there's a higher chance of me getting desynch on my block, I think.

But that's ESO tanking for you, russian roulette.

Do I get the crit I need or do I get smashed in the head by a minotaur, due to bad performance? Find out NEXT TIME on the exciting new edition of "The Zos Server"

So bad teammates and server performance means we should keep skills in that are stronger than they should be?

Even on non crits it heals SO much.

I don't see the need to this skill having that much of an effect in PvE.

15% chance of the main portion of the heal with crit the second you're about to die.

You really think those odds are enough to nerf the healing?

If the main portion of the heal pops that's due to shear LUCK. You want tanking to be luck based? XD

Dude, it heals for like 15k on non crits.

It wil make barely any difference to your survival.

zvavi

Brrrofski wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

To be fair, Arctic blast in PVE was critting for like 25k plus on my warden tank. That is pretty high.

To the point that I argue it is unnecessary to heal that much from one cast.

Dark cloak is completely senseless though.

Crit on my tanks is like 15% fat chance that's gonna proc on the main portion of the heal when I'm about to be slapped around, while my healer is asleep by his keyboard and my DDs are about to light attack their way to succes.

Actually, with my luck there's a higher chance of me getting desynch on my block, I think.

But that's ESO tanking for you, russian roulette.

Do I get the crit I need or do I get smashed in the head by a minotaur, due to bad performance? Find out NEXT TIME on the exciting new edition of "The Zos Server"

So bad teammates and server performance means we should keep skills in that are stronger than they should be?

Even on non crits it heals SO much.

I don't see the need to this skill having that much of an effect in PvE.

Arctic wind was not stronger than it should be (costwise, 4320 mag for 25% heal +3% heal per sec). The amount of healing and buffs it provided was inline with other class heals, for comparison necro heal heals at least as much as arctic wind, but has 30%+ lower cost, sorc heal heals for 30% of max health and has 20% less cost, NB heal situationally stronger and has lower cost, green dragon blood is 33% of your missing health (which means that on 40% health it is stronger than the new arctic wind) and procs *** tons of dk passives, like healing taken (same cost though) Templar tank looks very strong next patch too heal looks interesting next patch too, and I am excited to dust my Templar tank.

DreadDaedroth

They nerfed tanks even on block cost, mitigation....

Grandchamp1989

Brrrofski wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

To be fair, Arctic blast in PVE was critting for like 25k plus on my warden tank. That is pretty high.

To the point that I argue it is unnecessary to heal that much from one cast.

Dark cloak is completely senseless though.

Crit on my tanks is like 15% fat chance that's gonna proc on the main portion of the heal when I'm about to be slapped around, while my healer is asleep by his keyboard and my DDs are about to light attack their way to succes.

Actually, with my luck there's a higher chance of me getting desynch on my block, I think.

But that's ESO tanking for you, russian roulette.

Do I get the crit I need or do I get smashed in the head by a minotaur, due to bad performance? Find out NEXT TIME on the exciting new edition of "The Zos Server"

So bad teammates and server performance means we should keep skills in that are stronger than they should be?

Even on non crits it heals SO much.

I don't see the need to this skill having that much of an effect in PvE.

15% chance of the main portion of the heal with crit the second you're about to die.

You really think those odds are enough to nerf the healing?

If the main portion of the heal pops that's due to shear LUCK. You want tanking to be luck based? XD

Dude, it heals for like 15k on non crits.

It wil make barely any difference to your survival.

Just out of curiosity... Because you don't talk like an experienced tank.

"Nerfing your main heal barely affect your survival"

I don't think I have talked with any experienced tank players that talk like that.

What DLC Dungeon hardmodes and vet trials have you tanked on Warden? What do you build that experience from?

I'm legitimately curious if an experienced endgame tank will look at these mitigation nerfs and healing nerfed and be like "looks good"

Kurat

Arctic wind got nerfed because of pvp. Theres tons of threads complaining how OP it is and demanding nerfs.

lazywhiteseal

Kurat wrote: »

Arctic wind got nerfed because of pvp. Theres tons of threads complaining how OP it is and demanding nerfs.

once again pve players get punished for pvp players.
guess its gonna be used mainly for aoe stun now.

Stahlor

At least, they could lower the mag cost for arctic wind, too.

Wow. they nerfed one of the worst heals in the game - dark cloak

Anonx31st

Nerfing Tank heals is a great idea, healers already are not needed in normal dungeons, by nerfing DPS and Tank heals it now makes a healer more desirable in a group again. For an MMO, this needs to be done.

Sergykid

first of all, in an optimized group you don't pick tanks for their survivability. The warden and nightblade heals would have no impact in pve tanking.

and you didn't avoid getting a templar as tank because it lacked defense. You didn't pick it because it brings nothing to the group (like nightblade or sorc). DK brings engulfing and stagger, warden brings minor vulner (which if u have another warden u don't even want warden tank) and better brittle uptimes, necro brings colossus and good catalyst uptimes. What does templar bring? minor sorcery which you already get from heals or dds. A good change was to add something that boosts group dps, because this is all about. Maybe Sun Shield to have some sort of damage effect like Stagger does, but these defense changes will not make anyone want a templar tank from now on.
.

Anonx31st

Sergykid wrote: »

first of all, in an optimized group you don't pick tanks for their survivability. The warden and nightblade heals would have no impact in pve tanking.

and you didn't avoid getting a templar as tank because it lacked defense. You didn't pick it because it brings nothing to the group (like nightblade or sorc). DK brings engulfing and stagger, warden brings minor vulner (which if u have another warden u don't even want warden tank) and better brittle uptimes, necro brings colossus and good catalyst uptimes. What does templar bring? minor sorcery which you already get from heals or dds. A good change was to add something that boosts group dps, because this is all about. Maybe Sun Shield to have some sort of damage effect like Stagger does, but these defense changes will not make anyone want a templar tank from now on.
.

Well said +1

Brrrofski

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

To be fair, Arctic blast in PVE was critting for like 25k plus on my warden tank. That is pretty high.

To the point that I argue it is unnecessary to heal that much from one cast.

Dark cloak is completely senseless though.

Crit on my tanks is like 15% fat chance that's gonna proc on the main portion of the heal when I'm about to be slapped around, while my healer is asleep by his keyboard and my DDs are about to light attack their way to succes.

Actually, with my luck there's a higher chance of me getting desynch on my block, I think.

But that's ESO tanking for you, russian roulette.

Do I get the crit I need or do I get smashed in the head by a minotaur, due to bad performance? Find out NEXT TIME on the exciting new edition of "The Zos Server"

So bad teammates and server performance means we should keep skills in that are stronger than they should be?

Even on non crits it heals SO much.

I don't see the need to this skill having that much of an effect in PvE.

15% chance of the main portion of the heal with crit the second you're about to die.

You really think those odds are enough to nerf the healing?

If the main portion of the heal pops that's due to shear LUCK. You want tanking to be luck based? XD

Dude, it heals for like 15k on non crits.

It wil make barely any difference to your survival.

Just out of curiosity... Because you don't talk like an experienced tank.

"Nerfing your main heal barely affect your survival"

I don't think I have talked with any experienced tank players that talk like that.

What DLC Dungeon hardmodes and vet trials have you tanked on Warden? What do you build that experience from?

I'm legitimately curious if an experienced endgame tank will look at these mitigation nerfs and healing nerfed and be like "looks good"

I've tanked most of the hardmode dungeons on Warden.

Always without healers too.

I didn't say anything about the mitigation nerfs. [snip]

I only said that the arctic blast need wasn't that bit of a loss. It'll still heal more than any other heal on a tank, including DK which is the class most people tank with.

I actually do most of my tanking on a saptank now. With 35k health and dark cloak as my primary heal. Hard mode dungeons with no healer. I can heal myself fine on that, I'm sure you'll be ok with with an instant 13k heal (before crit).

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

Brrrofski

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

They nerfed tanks even on block cost, mitigation....

They nerfed all the passive CPs, not just tank ones.

Elo106

tbf Arctic was way too op, best burst heal and has a heal over time, stun and damage. deserved nerf
dark cloak was unexpected, didnt see a single call for a nerf on that one, not one post about it being op

on my magblade in pve I heal with vigor, a stam heal is better than dark cloak. pvp everyone uses the invisibility morph

Stahlor

Sergykid wrote: »

first of all, in an optimized group you don't pick tanks for their survivability. The warden and nightblade heals would have no impact in pve tanking.

and you didn't avoid getting a templar as tank because it lacked defense. You didn't pick it because it brings nothing to the group (like nightblade or sorc). DK brings engulfing and stagger, warden brings minor vulner (which if u have another warden u don't even want warden tank) and better brittle uptimes, necro brings colossus and good catalyst uptimes. What does templar bring? minor sorcery which you already get from heals or dds. A good change was to add something that boosts group dps, because this is all about. Maybe Sun Shield to have some sort of damage effect like Stagger does, but these defense changes will not make anyone want a templar tank from now on.
.

Who cares about that 0,01% of super high end game max optimised groups? So you are just saying, when these groups don't need survivability, all the others don't need it, too - congrats - that really makes sense...

Anonx31st

Stahlor wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

first of all, in an optimized group you don't pick tanks for their survivability. The warden and nightblade heals would have no impact in pve tanking.

and you didn't avoid getting a templar as tank because it lacked defense. You didn't pick it because it brings nothing to the group (like nightblade or sorc). DK brings engulfing and stagger, warden brings minor vulner (which if u have another warden u don't even want warden tank) and better brittle uptimes, necro brings colossus and good catalyst uptimes. What does templar bring? minor sorcery which you already get from heals or dds. A good change was to add something that boosts group dps, because this is all about. Maybe Sun Shield to have some sort of damage effect like Stagger does, but these defense changes will not make anyone want a templar tank from now on.
.

Who cares about that 0,01% of super high end game max optimised groups? So you are just saying, when these groups don't need survivability, all the others don't need it, too - congrats - that really makes sense...

TBH, over the years, I have seen players complain that dungeons are too easy or have been in groups myself (even in pugs) where dungeons didn't need a healer since DPS & Tanks have amazing healing skills (i.e. DK).

Stahlor

Anonx31st wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

first of all, in an optimized group you don't pick tanks for their survivability. The warden and nightblade heals would have no impact in pve tanking.

and you didn't avoid getting a templar as tank because it lacked defense. You didn't pick it because it brings nothing to the group (like nightblade or sorc). DK brings engulfing and stagger, warden brings minor vulner (which if u have another warden u don't even want warden tank) and better brittle uptimes, necro brings colossus and good catalyst uptimes. What does templar bring? minor sorcery which you already get from heals or dds. A good change was to add something that boosts group dps, because this is all about. Maybe Sun Shield to have some sort of damage effect like Stagger does, but these defense changes will not make anyone want a templar tank from now on.
.

Who cares about that 0,01% of super high end game max optimised groups? So you are just saying, when these groups don't need survivability, all the others don't need it, too - congrats - that really makes sense...

TBH, over the years, I have seen players complain that dungeons are too easy or have been in groups myself (even in pugs) where dungeons didn't need a healer since DPS & Tanks have amazing healing skills (i.e. DK).

He's clearly talking about end game trials. For all people, that are not that lucky to run in a completely optimised group of experienced players, it can be really stressful and annoying to progress one of these newer trials. So you are most of the time really happy, if you don't have to rely on a healer all the time.And I know what I'm talking talking about, because I have seen top players wiping like flies and rage quitting, just because they were in a PuG group and not in their well sheltered top trial teams anymore.

Sergykid

Stahlor wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

first of all, in an optimized group you don't pick tanks for their survivability. The warden and nightblade heals would have no impact in pve tanking.

and you didn't avoid getting a templar as tank because it lacked defense. You didn't pick it because it brings nothing to the group (like nightblade or sorc). DK brings engulfing and stagger, warden brings minor vulner (which if u have another warden u don't even want warden tank) and better brittle uptimes, necro brings colossus and good catalyst uptimes. What does templar bring? minor sorcery which you already get from heals or dds. A good change was to add something that boosts group dps, because this is all about. Maybe Sun Shield to have some sort of damage effect like Stagger does, but these defense changes will not make anyone want a templar tank from now on.
.

Who cares about that 0,01% of super high end game max optimised groups? So you are just saying, when these groups don't need survivability, all the others don't need it, too - congrats - that really makes sense...

that 0.01% (which is more than 5%) care about dps because it will make the difference between another phase of ads or portal. It's not just super high end game max groups, it's pretty common on tanks to buff dps since you don't even need survivability.
you can tank anything even without any class spells. Self vigor and defensive posture are more than enough to survive through anything in the game (assuming you are in heavy armor and know when to block and how to weave heavy attacks). Meaning you just go overkill by adding any more survivability.
in overland or normal trials of course you don't care what you wear, go full tank if you want, won't matter. But in higher content there are dps checks, and people that care to increase their dps will benefit greatly from a dk tank that actually uses stagger rather than one that just holds block and spams dragon blood.
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