Unnecessary amounts of nerfs

TheBonesXXX

Axes and Gravelord abilities?

Why nerf them? Crit Builds were becoming a thing.

Malacath ring? It just needed to not buff procs and heavy armor users.

What's with the proc set buffs? They functioned fine as is.

Sangwyne

Necro needed a nerf, it was the top DPS in trials and busted in PvP. The change to axes was actually a buff to the amount of critical damage that they do, axes healing better than Staves was dumb. Malacath was busted, full stop. You folks asked for procs to scale, ZOS delivered.

TheBonesXXX

Sangwyne wrote: »

Necro needed a nerf, it was the top DPS in trials and busted in PvP. The change to axes was actually a buff to the amount of critical damage that they do, axes healing better than Staves was dumb. Malacath was busted, full stop. You folks asked for procs to scale, ZOS delivered.

Trials don't matter, because PvE doesn't matter. It's the thing you do to get the pretty at the end.

Necros couldn't utilize crit damage if they wore malacath.

Then buff staves. Not constantly drop unnecessary amounts of nerfs.

Malacath only needed not buff procs and heavy armor builds.

Once again, the hammer swung and bulldozed something.

It's okay Steven Shariff will save this genre and actually not bulldoze stuff.

marius_buys

This was looong overdue

The Battle Spirit passive now also reduces your Health Recovery by 50%

Skullstachio

Some nerfs were somewhat justified, but if I may remind you folks, this is only the initial pts patch, there may be overall improvements, maybe not. It depends on if an “Equilibral” solution can be found that can be Balanced in both PvE and PvP.

MashmalloMan

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Axes and Gravelord abilities?

I was upset about the Necro nerf at first, but after looking over their passives again, I was reminded about how many awesome passives they had to begin with, this is before looking at their skills.

Eg.. 1500 pen, 15% dot damage, 3% damage done from tether slotted.

It was so strong, I would only ever slot 3 abilities on front bar and have guaranteed crits in execute, not having a class execute does not give a reason for a class to have such a strong passive when DW and 2H both have some of the strongest execute skills in the game and most magicka classes don't have an execute to begin with, yet still get by perfectly fine.

The passive was so strong, I was choosing to back bar Skeletal Archer and Collusus since they easily pushed me over 100%. Now, it will actually make more sense to front load those abilities to get the most out of the passive, before it was a little too easy.

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Axes and Gravelord abilities?

Axes were buffed to 6% per 1h dw or 12% for 2h. Previously 4% and 8%. This is a buff and necessary for it to compete with Daggers providing 3.7% crit per 1h dw. At 4% crit damage, it became deconstruct fodder.

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Why nerf them? Crit Builds were becoming a thing.

They're still a thing.. and will be more of a thing this patch with the 2 extremely strong crit sets that are becoming available, so check again. Also, as mentioned above, axes were buffed.

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Malacath ring? It just needed to not buff procs and heavy armor users.

Buffing proc sets is part of the fun of the set, it was just overtuned for a number of reasons and the balancing done here has hit a nice middle ground, it's way less restrictive, while also being more simple in it's effectiveness.

1) Malacath prevented you from critting, so not only did it buff all your damage (including proc sets) by way more than what you'd ever be able to accomplish with regular crit chance because crit chance is so low in pvp (20-40%), but it also BUFFED all your damage by helping you completely avoid crit resistance from other players. Invalidating other players sets and/or bonuses is an awful design for a 1 piece set. The ring buffed your damage by more than the listed value, because suddenly, none of your damage was mitigated by the 20-40% crit resist players could potentially slot.

2) Malacath didn't work equally across all classes and players which is a bit annoying for such a popular mythic set. Eg, NB's (Crit passives, crit minor buff, crit damage buff, sneak crit buff), Khajits (Crit damage passive), Sorcs (Crit Surge and crit minor buff), Templars (Crit damage passive) and Warden's (Crit damage passives).

3) Malacath didn't work with sets that procced from crit damage done.

4) Malacath invalidated the crit chance passives found in medium and light armor, heavy armor, high health builds were the defacto route to take given the fact that they sacrifice the least amount of damage to get the gigantic buff.

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

What's with the proc set buffs? They functioned fine as is.

Intent is for them to be buffed for pve where crit chance is extremely important but proc sets can't crit, yet nerfed for pvp where getting free damage while being able to focus on defensive stats like health, armor and sustain was more popular, so proc sets became overtuned for 1 portion of the game while being undertuned for the other.

This change is exactly what people wanted whether you agree or not. Have they actually achieved that with the listed thresholds? Not sure yet. It seems like it will be, but the thresholds ddo seem a bit high and unforgiving. Eg. Weapon damage scales much better for stamina and healers don't necessarly always benefit from stacking 40k resources, there just isn't any point. They act like all healing skills scale from max resources, but it's only true for a select few abilities, most players aim for 30-35k of their main pool before they start aiming for a more important stat in Spell or Weapon damage.

stefj68

ZOS when we say their was too many vertical progression we didn't means to cut down 2-3 ranks on almost every skills... you could have just reduce each ranks cost by 33% and that would have achieve same results without over nerfing us

im sitting at 1400cp 200 more then what i get when u29 lauch and i still feel weaker...
i was doing 70kdps pre patch 29, on main i am doing 62k now... unable to qualify for vets trials...

only reason i see for those nerf is to force us of using your crappy companions ideas and make us farms gears for ever for them ... sure we can't use gear we already farmed... we coudl use common sets... we have to get new gear, new sets, and cluster load our banks, inventory and home chest... way to go!

also tought we were reducing calculation per gcd to ease up server... are you telling me those companions won't takes calculation per seconds?

companions should be able to carry all companion gear you have...

if you switch to another toons, queue for a dungeon, then healer drop... u pop out your companion to realize you remove his healing gear to put out dps.. have to camp, switch toons, put back gear on companions or banks, reload... this is just gonna a freaking pains!!!!!!!

spartaxoxo

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

Necro needed a nerf, it was the top DPS in trials and busted in PvP. The change to axes was actually a buff to the amount of critical damage that they do, axes healing better than Staves was dumb. Malacath was busted, full stop. You folks asked for procs to scale, ZOS delivered.

Trials don't matter, because PvE doesn't matter. It's the thing you do to get the pretty at the end.

PvE is the primary focus of the entire franchise, all the way to nearly 30 years ago. So yes, it does matter. Objectively.

YandereGirlfriend

@MashmalloMan As always, you make extremely valid points. As you tour through the Necro passives though, I see much lower-hanging fruit with which to make more surgical power reductions.

Take the 3% Tether passive as an easy example, why is it even there in the first place? That's an easy snip for me if I am trying to balance the class for PvE DPS (which I am frankly skeptical that they were even intending in the first place; rather, I believe this was simply the latest front in their general campaign against Critical Chance sources...).

Or take the Penetration passive and chop it in half like they have just done for the CP passive. Again, why is this even here to begin with, it isn't thematic at all - it's just obvious and unnecessary stat-padding for the class.

Finally, the DoT passive stands out as another seemingly random buff that would be more at home on another class (e.g. DKs). Reducing this passive down to +10%, in conjunction with the above-mentioned changes, would have helped shave off the extra % of DPS that Necromancers had been enjoying in PvE. And it would have been accomplished without gutting the defining passive of the class.

As a final thought, you cited the Stamina Weapon Ability executes but it always needs to be remembered that our magRomancer friends enjoy no such ability. Death Knell was their de facto execute and now they're in the same sad boat as the magDK (while still not even having a functioning Blastbones morph after nearly two years...).

TheBonesXXX

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

Necro needed a nerf, it was the top DPS in trials and busted in PvP. The change to axes was actually a buff to the amount of critical damage that they do, axes healing better than Staves was dumb. Malacath was busted, full stop. You folks asked for procs to scale, ZOS delivered.

Trials don't matter, because PvE doesn't matter. It's the thing you do to get the pretty at the end.

PvE is the primary focus of the entire franchise, all the way to nearly 30 years ago. So yes, it does matter. Objectively.

Trials and Four man's only exist in ESO and aren't necessary for telling the story.

TheBonesXXX

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

@MashmalloMan As always, you make extremely valid points. As you tour through the Necro passives though, I see much lower-hanging fruit with which to make more surgical power reductions.

Take the 3% Tether passive as an easy example, why is it even there in the first place? That's an easy snip for me if I am trying to balance the class for PvE DPS (which I am frankly skeptical that they were even intending in the first place; rather, I believe this was simply the latest front in their general campaign against Critical Chance sources...).

Or take the Penetration passive and chop it in half like they have just done for the CP passive. Again, why is this even here to begin with, it isn't thematic at all - it's just obvious and unnecessary stat-padding for the class.

Finally, the DoT passive stands out as another seemingly random buff that would be more at home on another class (e.g. DKs). Reducing this passive down to +10%, in conjunction with the above-mentioned changes, would have helped shave off the extra % of DPS that Necromancers had been enjoying in PvE. And it would have been accomplished without gutting the defining passive of the class.

As a final thought, you cited the Stamina Weapon Ability executes but it always needs to be remembered that our magRomancer friends enjoy no such ability. Death Knell was their de facto execute and now they're in the same sad boat as the magDK (while still not even having a functioning Blastbones morph after nearly two years...).

This.

Fire Pulsar isn't a true execute, but with the unnecessary crit nerf it just made it even less of a pseudo execute.