Templar Changes, no love for stam?

notyuu

We have templar changes: Yay
They appear to be mostly magic focused: ???
@ZOS_BrianWheeler I'm not sure if you relise this, but

1. Stamina Templar exsists
2. Stamina Templar has been the pvp punching bag since the greymoore lauch
3. Stamina Templar needs MAJOR help when it comes to doing more than spamming jabs (no class healing, no group utility, weak off-class healing, terrible hard/impossible to use burst, no mobility, no def tools, super limited benefit from class passives)

while it's nice to see that we are finally getting some templar buffs...they are only focusing magplar which has had all of one patch being shafted, yet us stamina templars have been screwed for well over a year at this point, I mean really...a stamina templar is Literally jabs the class, we have NOTHING else from our class worth a damn, and what little else we can piece together makes us lackluster in pve and an absloute joke in pvp.

so I simple ask, Where is the love for stamplar?

West93

notyuu wrote: »

We have templar changes: Yay
They appear to be mostly magic focused: ???
@ZOS_BrianWheeler I'm not sure if you relise this, but

1. Stamina Templar exsists
2. Stamina Templar has been the pvp punching bag since the greymoore lauch
3. Stamina Templar needs MAJOR help when it comes to doing more than spamming jabs (no class healing, no group utility, weak off-class healing, terrible hard/impossible to use burst, no mobility, no def tools, super limited benefit from class passives)

while it's nice to see that we are finally getting some templar buffs...they are only focusing magplar which has had all of one patch being shafted, yet us stamina templars have been screwed for well over a year at this point, I mean really...a stamina templar is Literally jabs the class, we have NOTHING else from our class worth a damn, and what little else we can piece together makes us lackluster in pve and an absloute joke in pvp.

so I simple ask, Where is the love for stamplar?

at least arctic wind got a huge 20% nerf.

bye 50k hp malacath band + procset stacking wardens.

twing1_

I'm excited to use the new living dark and restoring focus on my stamplar. Health scaling heals help out both mag and stam.

Brederode

West93 wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

We have templar changes: Yay
They appear to be mostly magic focused: ???
@ZOS_BrianWheeler I'm not sure if you relise this, but

1. Stamina Templar exsists
2. Stamina Templar has been the pvp punching bag since the greymoore lauch
3. Stamina Templar needs MAJOR help when it comes to doing more than spamming jabs (no class healing, no group utility, weak off-class healing, terrible hard/impossible to use burst, no mobility, no def tools, super limited benefit from class passives)

while it's nice to see that we are finally getting some templar buffs...they are only focusing magplar which has had all of one patch being shafted, yet us stamina templars have been screwed for well over a year at this point, I mean really...a stamina templar is Literally jabs the class, we have NOTHING else from our class worth a damn, and what little else we can piece together makes us lackluster in pve and an absloute joke in pvp.

so I simple ask, Where is the love for stamplar?

at least arctic wind got a huge 20% nerf.

bye 50k hp malacath band + procset stacking wardens.

Sure.. but one change to a completely different class doesn’t exactly make stamina Templar any better in PvE now, does it?

Armethius

um stam templar is OP, as with all stam. no more love for stam, ty.

techyeshic

The 25% healing buff from the stam focus will be nice. I doubt I slot living dark at its cost on a stamplar though.

Anyron

Stamplar is still better than magplar, magblade, magdk, magden and magcro so you are not at bad spot.

West93

techyeshic wrote: »

The 25% healing buff from the stam focus will be nice. I doubt I slot living dark at its cost on a stamplar though.

how does 25% healing buff work?

25% healing while standing in rune?

twing1_

West93 wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

The 25% healing buff from the stam focus will be nice. I doubt I slot living dark at its cost on a stamplar though.

how does 25% healing buff work?

25% healing while standing in rune?

It increases the healing the rune provides, it is not an overall buff to your healing. So in base skill it heals for 4.5% of your max health, restoring focus increases that 4.5% by a factor of 25%, increasing the healing the rune provides to 5.625% of your max health/second.

Alekero

Seems like stamplars is a darn joke for devs...again.

Joy_Division

Templar changes look designed to make Templar tanking more appealing.

techyeshic

twing1_ wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

The 25% healing buff from the stam focus will be nice. I doubt I slot living dark at its cost on a stamplar though.

how does 25% healing buff work?

25% healing while standing in rune?

It increases the healing the rune provides, it is not an overall buff to your healing. So in base skill it heals for 4.5% of your max health, restoring focus increases that 4.5% by a factor of 25%, increasing the healing the rune provides to 5.625% of your max health/second.

What base healing of rune?

ealdwin

techyeshic wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

The 25% healing buff from the stam focus will be nice. I doubt I slot living dark at its cost on a stamplar though.

how does 25% healing buff work?

25% healing while standing in rune?

It increases the healing the rune provides, it is not an overall buff to your healing. So in base skill it heals for 4.5% of your max health, restoring focus increases that 4.5% by a factor of 25%, increasing the healing the rune provides to 5.625% of your max health/second.

What base healing of rune?

Rune Focus:
Increased the base duration of this ability to 17 seconds, up from 14 seconds.
This ability and its morphs no longer grant you an additional 2974 Armor when standing in them, but instead heal you for 4.5% of your Max Health every 1 second when inside.

honey_badger82

Joy_Division wrote: »

Templar changes look designed to make Templar tanking more appealing.

This is a double edged sword though. I relied on the extra armor from standing in the rune on my templar tank. The heal is a great step in the right direction however taking more damage takes some of the luster off of it.

VaxtinTheWolf

My stamina/health templar tank might improve a lot with the adjustments. I've also tried to use Living Dark on it but just cant justify it due to the poor scaling, an since Power of the Light is basically irrelevant now in general, I had no way to procing the minor sorcery or ultimate generation passives before. I liked the Rune's resistances, but wasnt always standing inside of it anyway all the time, but with it giving more healing that'll improve my sturdiness a lot as well.

Firstmep

Joy_Division wrote: »

Templar changes look designed to make Templar tanking more appealing.

Yeah, looking at the value for rune healing, its definetly more pve focused.

For pvp its kinda whatever, cant really stand in the rune for more than 1-2 seconds anway.

techyeshic

ealdwin wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

The 25% healing buff from the stam focus will be nice. I doubt I slot living dark at its cost on a stamplar though.

how does 25% healing buff work?

25% healing while standing in rune?

It increases the healing the rune provides, it is not an overall buff to your healing. So in base skill it heals for 4.5% of your max health, restoring focus increases that 4.5% by a factor of 25%, increasing the healing the rune provides to 5.625% of your max health/second.

What base healing of rune?

Rune Focus:
Increased the base duration of this ability to 17 seconds, up from 14 seconds.
This ability and its morphs no longer grant you an additional 2974 Armor when standing in them, but instead heal you for 4.5% of your Max Health every 1 second when inside.

Wow. I totally missed the big picture. Yeah; that sucks.

StarOfElyon

Joy_Division wrote: »

Templar changes look designed to make Templar tanking more appealing.

That's what I thought too but I'm not sure if my tank is willing to sacrifice the additional armor.

StarOfElyon

I'm hoping the Templar passives get reworked still. And I'm disappointed that Radiant Ward didn't get changed for damage dealers to use in PVP. Maybe it's happening later?

Anyway.... one should never miss a chance to repost ideas they want ZOS to consider so.... here are my ideas again: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/557860/changes-that-i-would-like-to-see-for-templars

SKILLS:

Under Healing Ritual:

Hasty Prayer should be turned into a self-targeted vigor-like heal, meaning it will have a small burst heal with a HoT, and still give minor expedition.


Explosive Charge needs a buff. Maybe have it do BIG AoE damage to make it a worthy alternative to Toppling Charge.


Backlash should scale with spell damage instead of max magicka. For Purifying Light, the AoE HoT should be effective upon cast, not when it ends (which forces the player to remain in that spot to get the heal).

Also - and this is purely a cosmetic thing - I can't stand the green color of Power Of The Light (it should be white or gold to fit better with the Templar theme, in my opinion. Just make it gold and keep the swirling effect that it has to distinguish it.


Empowering Sweep lost the major protection that it used to have so why not have it heal the caster over time for the amount of the damage done. Since the empower buff is redundant on Templars (they get it from Solar Barrage), it's a waste of an ultimate. It can be called the Auroral Sweep or something.


Unstable Core could add a better CC to the Templar kit if it was made into an AoE skill the size of Time Stop or Negate. Rather than placing a dark bubble on an opponent, a large area can be targeted. Opponents in that area experience the same effects as the old Unstable Core everytime they use a direct damage attack against the caster or his/her group. The Templar can target the area around his self and create a "house" that damages attacking opposition. So the new description (with a name change) would read as follows:

Sanctuary (for example)
- Creates a luminous sphere at the target location that harms enemies with growing intensity anytime they use a Direct Damage attack. Limited to one. Their first attack reduces their movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds and deals 273 Magic Damage, their second attack immobilizes them for 3 seconds and deals 548 Magic Damage, and their third attack stuns them for 3 seconds and deals 822 Magic Damage. The effects can activate once every 1 second.


And more Templar shining light/glowing effects! (power fantasy dammit)



PASSIVES:

There are so many that are worthless. I'm leveling my second templar now (a tank) and I'm looking at passives like, "that feels like a waste of a skill point". I never felt that way when leveling a Necro and a DK.


Burning Light is worthless outside of Jabs/Sweeps and Spear Shards. Maybe what we should do is make the Piercing Spear passive the Burning Light passive. And the new Piercing Spear passive should be a penetration bonus to Aedric Spear abilities. For clarity:

The new Burning Light passive should be:
- Increase your Critical Damage by 10%
- Increase your damage done to blocking to target 10%

The new Piercing Spear passive should be:
- Adds (?) penetration to your Aedric Spear abilities.


Illuminate should give both Minor Sorcery and Minor Brutality (to help stamina players or hybrids). So that passive would look like this:

Illuminate:
- Casting a Dawn's Wrath ability grants Minor Brutality to you and Minor Sorcery to you and your group for 20 seconds, increasing your Spell and Weapon Damage by 10%.
(Edited so that Minor Brutality is only given to the caster but Minor Sorcery still applies to the group)


Light Weaver should effect the caster when under 50% health, not just allies. As it is now, the passive does the following: "When you heal an ally under 50% Health with a Restoring Light ability, you grant them 2 Ultimate."

But what if the Templar is solo? What good does this passive do then? None. At the very least, the caster should receive 2 Ultimate as well.


Balanced Warrior should give both weapon damage and spell damage bonuses, as well as bonuses to spell resistance and physical resistance. Why one or the other? As it is, it's fine for stamina Templars but 6% weapon damage does nothing for magicka Templars. So the new passive would look like this:

Balanced Warrior
- Increases your Spell and Weapon Damage by 6%. Increases Spell and Physical Resistance by 2640.


Master Ritualist should give Templars a 10% chance to remove one negative effect when casting a heal on their self or an ally. As it stands, this is another example of Templar passives being more beneficial to the team than the Templar their self. So the new passive would read like this:

Master Ritualist
- When you heal yourself or an ally, you have a 10% chance to remove one negative effect. Increases resurrection speed by 20%. Resurrected allies return with 100% more Health. Gives you a 50% chance to fill an empty Soul Gem after each successful resurrection.

If the calculations are too much, instead of having a 10% chance, every 10th cast of a Restoring Light ability can remove one negative effect.



So that's it for this round of suggestions. I hope someone at ZOS takes them into consideration.

ealdwin

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I'm hoping the Templar passives get reworked still. And I'm disappointed that Radiant Ward didn't get changed for damage dealers to use in PVP. Maybe it's happening later?

Anyway.... one should never miss a chance to repost ideas they want ZOS to consider so.... here are my ideas again: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/557860/changes-that-i-would-like-to-see-for-templars

SKILLS:

Under Healing Ritual:

Hasty Prayer should be turned into a self-targeted vigor-like heal, meaning it will have a small burst heal with a HoT, and still give minor expedition.


Explosive Charge needs a buff. Maybe have it do BIG AoE damage to make it a worthy alternative to Toppling Charge.


Backlash should scale with spell damage instead of max magicka. For Purifying Light, the AoE HoT should be effective upon cast, not when it ends (which forces the player to remain in that spot to get the heal).

Also - and this is purely a cosmetic thing - I can't stand the green color of Power Of The Light (it should be white or gold to fit better with the Templar theme, in my opinion. Just make it gold and keep the swirling effect that it has to distinguish it.


Empowering Sweep lost the major protection that it used to have so why not have it heal the caster over time for the amount of the damage done. Since the empower buff is redundant on Templars (they get it from Solar Barrage), it's a waste of an ultimate. It can be called the Auroral Sweep or something.


Unstable Core could add a better CC to the Templar kit if it was made into an AoE skill the size of Time Stop or Negate. Rather than placing a dark bubble on an opponent, a large area can be targeted. Opponents in that area experience the same effects as the old Unstable Core everytime they use a direct damage attack against the caster or his/her group. The Templar can target the area around his self and create a "house" that damages attacking opposition. So the new description (with a name change) would read as follows:

Sanctuary (for example)
- Creates a luminous sphere at the target location that harms enemies with growing intensity anytime they use a Direct Damage attack. Limited to one. Their first attack reduces their movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds and deals 273 Magic Damage, their second attack immobilizes them for 3 seconds and deals 548 Magic Damage, and their third attack stuns them for 3 seconds and deals 822 Magic Damage. The effects can activate once every 1 second.


And more Templar shining light/glowing effects! (power fantasy dammit)



PASSIVES:

There are so many that are worthless. I'm leveling my second templar now (a tank) and I'm looking at passives like, "that feels like a waste of a skill point". I never felt that way when leveling a Necro and a DK.


Burning Light is worthless outside of Jabs/Sweeps and Spear Shards. Maybe what we should do is make the Piercing Spear passive the Burning Light passive. And the new Piercing Spear passive should be a penetration bonus to Aedric Spear abilities. For clarity:

The new Burning Light passive should be:
- Increase your Critical Damage by 10%
- Increase your damage done to blocking to target 10%

The new Piercing Spear passive should be:
- Adds (?) penetration to your Aedric Spear abilities.


Illuminate should give both Minor Sorcery and Minor Brutality (to help stamina players or hybrids). So that passive would look like this:

Illuminate:
- Casting a Dawn's Wrath ability grants Minor Brutality to you and Minor Sorcery to you and your group for 20 seconds, increasing your Spell and Weapon Damage by 10%.
(Edited so that Minor Brutality is only given to the caster but Minor Sorcery still applies to the group)


Light Weaver should effect the caster when under 50% health, not just allies. As it is now, the passive does the following: "When you heal an ally under 50% Health with a Restoring Light ability, you grant them 2 Ultimate."

But what if the Templar is solo? What good does this passive do then? None. At the very least, the caster should receive 2 Ultimate as well.


Balanced Warrior should give both weapon damage and spell damage bonuses, as well as bonuses to spell resistance and physical resistance. Why one or the other? As it is, it's fine for stamina Templars but 6% weapon damage does nothing for magicka Templars. So the new passive would look like this:

Balanced Warrior
- Increases your Spell and Weapon Damage by 6%. Increases Spell and Physical Resistance by 2640.


Master Ritualist should give Templars a 10% chance to remove one negative effect when casting a heal on their self or an ally. As it stands, this is another example of Templar passives being more beneficial to the team than the Templar their self. So the new passive would read like this:

Master Ritualist
- When you heal yourself or an ally, you have a 10% chance to remove one negative effect. Increases resurrection speed by 20%. Resurrected allies return with 100% more Health. Gives you a 50% chance to fill an empty Soul Gem after each successful resurrection.

If the calculations are too much, instead of having a 10% chance, every 10th cast of a Restoring Light ability can remove one negative effect.



So that's it for this round of suggestions. I hope someone at ZOS takes them into consideration.

Yeah, the lack of changes to Sun Shield is disappointing considering that it's a often unused skill, but one that could be better. I think a basic fix would be to change Blazing Shield to scale from Max Offensive Resource (Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher) and allow the damage to be dealt on recast as well as when the shield expires (Unstable WoE treatment). That way the skill becomes more useful as a defensive ability in PVP.

If they (being ZOS) really wanted to go all out, they'd change the 4% increase on Sun Shield to 9% increase per enemy hit, making Sun Shield in essence a more expensive Radiant Ward. Then, for Blazing Shield, do as I said before, but also increase the damage dealt to 35% of damage absorbed. Then, for Radiant Ward, cut the damage by 50% but also stun enemies hit for 4 seconds. In essence, make Radiant Ward the base morph, make one morph better for offensive-focused players, and the other morph with more utility for defensive-focused players.

Ratzkifal

I like what they did to Living Dark. That skill could use some love and it's ideal for Templar tanks now and might replace Sun Shield. Since it is a Dawn's Wrath ability you get to benefit from your Prism passive, which was quite difficult for Templar tanks to find the slot for, especially since Templar healers could already provide Minor Breach which makes PotL obsolete to run on a templar tank as well.
The only thing I am missing for Templar tanks is a boost to group damage in the form of a debuff that the healer shouldn't be able to provide. Again, Living Dark is the perfect skill for an effect like that. Instead of the slow it could make enemies take 5% more martial/magickal/all damage, similar to Engulfing Flames buffing Fire damage or Colossus buffing all damage. A healer or a DPS won't be hit by damage reliably enough to apply an effect like that to all attackers if it only gets applied upon attacking the tank. This would make Templar tanks actually useful!

The Runefocus change is certainly not ideal. The old buff to resistances was good for tanks. The healing is appreciated of course and the right morph was chosen for the increased healing too, but the lack of the resistance might end up being felt especially by players who are not running all heavy armor.

Sanguinor2

For templar tanking, you can make up the lack of 3k resistances by frontbaring master sword and shield for example and the heal is worth more than 3k resistances for templar tank imo.
On topic: kinda crazy that Zos thinks stamplar is fine. Or that Potl/Pl are good abilities.

Ratzkifal

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

For templar tanking, you can make up the lack of 3k resistances by frontbaring master sword and shield for example and the heal is worth more than 3k resistances for templar tank imo.
On topic: kinda crazy that Zos thinks stamplar is fine. Or that Potl/Pl are good abilities.

Master Sword and Shield locks you out of wearing other gear though. If you run Alkosh or something similar on your backbar, then alright, I guess that works - but you don't always have that luxury. Tanks need to suit the needs of their group and when your group needs to have your sets permanently active or you need your set active on your frontbar for maximizing your uptime, then you are out of luck.

Jaimeh

Armethius wrote: »

um stam templar is OP, as with all stam. no more love for stam, ty.

Meanwhile stam in pve is obliterated. Can we pls seperate the two already...

Sanguinor2

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Master Sword and Shield locks you out of wearing other gear though. If you run Alkosh or something similar on your backbar, then alright, I guess that works - but you don't always have that luxury. Tanks need to suit the needs of their group and when your group needs to have your sets permanently active or you need your set active on your frontbar for maximizing your uptime, then you are out of luck.

Yup for sure. I still think the heal is worth 3k resistances.

James-Wayne

The biggest issue for PvE Stamplar now is the fact sets got nerfed with the proc changes so if you think Stamplar was bad before just wait till you are wearing wet noodles...

They just want us to build towards jabbing.

Grimlok_S

Anyone else remember when 24K HP was considered high?

I'm all for Stamplar healing improvements but max HP based heals are lazy and detrimental to PvP, IMO.

Athan1

Joy_Division wrote: »

Templar changes look designed to make Templar tanking more appealing.

Indeed! Looking forward to it

Ratzkifal

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Anyone else remember when 24K HP was considered high?

I'm all for Stamplar healing improvements but max HP based heals are lazy and detrimental to PvP, IMO.

But they are good for PvE tanks.

notyuu

7.0.1 released
stamplar buffs/changes: nowhere to be seen
@ZOS_BrianWheeler come on now.

Draevik

Look I will make you Stamplars a deal, I will trade you Crystal Weapon and Hurricane for your mit buff (honestly have one of the best mit buffs in the game even before changes) and jabs.