Lock thread plz, question has long been answered.

Masel

BejaProphet wrote: »

Wow, thank you for the input. So it is that bad. I can not fathom their thinking.

We wait years for a character advancement system, only to find it’s going to be border line meaningless it is so weak? I honestly don’t know if my love for the game can survive that.

It isn't meaningless... I still managed to get to 95k on the preview server while parsing. People overreact here imo. We dont need the vertical power from the system to complete any content, and I personally prefer horizontal options. Those allow for much more creativity and theorycrafting than just adding more and more passive power over time.

But that's just my opinion.

BejaProphet

I am on record as having applauded the shift to horizontal advancement.

But for horizontal advancement to have any meaning, the vertical advancement must have meaning.

What value is there in me choosing between the better healing and better tanking and swapping that out (horizontal progression)?

If I’m choosing between 4% boost to whichever I choose (vertical progression)?

The vertical progression I’m swapping around must matter for the horizontal to matter.

Edit note: And I did say “border line meaningless”

katorga

Sandman929 wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

Wow, thank you for the input. So it is that bad. I can not fathom their thinking.

We wait years for a character advancement system, only to find it’s going to be border line meaningless it is so weak? I honestly don’t know if my love for the game can survive that.

Maybe it'll see some changes in the PTS process...optimistic, I know, but this kind of reduction does make it pretty pointless.

Yep, "horizontal" progression doesn't mean you have more options but none of them matter.

BejaProphet

Just to put another thought forward to prove the point

1. You lost half your power from CP 2.0

2. It didn’t bother your damage much.

3. That data argues that the remaining half is trivial as well.

The game isn’t being broken. I’m not bewailing a broken game. I’m saying the CP doesn’t matter much at all now. They can take all of it and we’d still manage.

That’s what we waited years to get?

Everest_Lionheart

Masel wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

Wow, thank you for the input. So it is that bad. I can not fathom their thinking.

We wait years for a character advancement system, only to find it’s going to be border line meaningless it is so weak? I honestly don’t know if my love for the game can survive that.

It isn't meaningless... I still managed to get to 95k on the preview server while parsing. People overreact here imo. We dont need the vertical power from the system to complete any content, and I personally prefer horizontal options. Those allow for much more creativity and theorycrafting than just adding more and more passive power over time.

But that's just my opinion.

It’s not the parse I’m worried about so much as the mitigation. I’m struggling in some vet trials to stay alive as a DPS in the current patch where the previous patch I was not. The result is that instead of slotting a shield or a self heal to pass certain mechanics I am now slotting both and in some cases an extra skill to buff my resistances. That’s skill slots where I’ve had to drop my dps skills in favour of survivability.

I’m at just over 1000CP now which means is still don’t have damage maxed and currently I’m hitting ~7% lower across the board on all my toons. Not that big of a DPS loss to be honest. To get there means I haven’t put anything into mitigation. And while the new system looks like I may be able to do just that I am not sure anything is going to really help in that department every percent helps sure. But mitigating a 30k one shot when I have 28K hp can’t be done at 4% where I could survive at 8%. So either way I will still be way over what I need for DPS and still lacking where it really counts.

carlos424

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

Wow, thank you for the input. So it is that bad. I can not fathom their thinking.

We wait years for a character advancement system, only to find it’s going to be border line meaningless it is so weak? I honestly don’t know if my love for the game can survive that.

It isn't meaningless... I still managed to get to 95k on the preview server while parsing. People overreact here imo. We dont need the vertical power from the system to complete any content, and I personally prefer horizontal options. Those allow for much more creativity and theorycrafting than just adding more and more passive power over time.

But that's just my opinion.

It’s not the parse I’m worried about so much as the mitigation. I’m struggling in some vet trials to stay alive as a DPS in the current patch where the previous patch I was not. The result is that instead of slotting a shield or a self heal to pass certain mechanics I am now slotting both and in some cases an extra skill to buff my resistances. That’s skill slots where I’ve had to drop my dps skills in favour of survivability.

I’m at just over 1000CP now which means is still don’t have damage maxed and currently I’m hitting ~7% lower across the board on all my toons. Not that big of a DPS loss to be honest. To get there means I haven’t put anything into mitigation. And while the new system looks like I may be able to do just that I am not sure anything is going to really help in that department every percent helps sure. But mitigating a 30k one shot when I have 28K hp can’t be done at 4% where I could survive at 8%. So either way I will still be way over what I need for DPS and still lacking where it really counts.

Exactly this. Depending on which CP passives are decreased, block mitigation?, 8% damage reduction down to 4%, hardy down to 2%? All of these in combination will make a noticeable difference with survivability.
Maybe this is where your companion comes in. Lol

Mr_Gallows

Sandman929 wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

Wow, thank you for the input. So it is that bad. I can not fathom their thinking.

We wait years for a character advancement system, only to find it’s going to be border line meaningless it is so weak? I honestly don’t know if my love for the game can survive that.

Maybe it'll see some changes in the PTS process...optimistic, I know, but this kind of reduction does make it pretty pointless.

To be honest I just want balance and gameplay above all else. The new system is a good idea having to pick only four stars.

BejaProphet

@masel so were single stage abilities left alone? Such as Bulwark. And what if stars that don’t involve stages like endless endurance?

itscompton

Sandman929 wrote: »

I think people are reading into things quite a bit:

we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations

So that says reducing stages to get to "optimal" not necessarily that the total value is diminished.

while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

Some power out of the high-end experience...sure that sounds like a reduction, but it's very vague and doesn't specify any stars at all by name.

When they talk about taking "power out of the high-end experience" I read it as they want someone with 1100CP to be closer in total power to someone with 1800 and they don't need to cut the maximum value of the stars to do that, they simply need to reduce how many points it takes to get to that maximum. So instead of a star being 5 ten point stages each worth 2% you get 2 ten point stages each worth 5%.

BejaProphet

@itscompton gotta read rest of thread. Worst case interpretation has been confirmed.

itscompton

BejaProphet wrote: »

@itscompton gotta read rest of thread. Worst case interpretation has been confirmed.

If they leave it that way it's pretty lame. But my argument is still valid, reaching the same max values with less points would accomplish what they want without degrading the value of the CP system to the point they might as well just make all PvP no CP.
I can already regularly beat people with 400-500 more CP than I do in fights and I've also had people with 600 less than I have kill me.

kojou

Masel wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I think people are reading into things quite a bit:

we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations

So that says reducing stages to get to "optimal" not necessarily that the total value is diminished.

while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

Some power out of the high-end experience...sure that sounds like a reduction, but it's very vague and doesn't specify any stars at all by name.

It means that the power is reduced. They've did that once when they cut them from 5 to 4, why would they do it different now?

I'm not saying they won't. I just prefer to react to facts not speculation.

I was on the preview server and the power has been cut in half. 2 stages, same power per stage as before = half the power.

So im not speculating, I've seen it first hand.

I assumed this is what they meant as well, since it was the same thing they did on the PTS to "remove vertical progression", but in the update it says "passives" so I also assumed that meant only the non-slottables. Are you saying the slottable buffs have been halved as well?

Gilvoth

Langeston wrote: »

It's vaguely written. My initial reading of it is different from yours.

I posted this in another thread:

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

If you ignore everything but the bolded part:

We also are keenly aware of the ... concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible. To address these concerns, we are ... greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations[.]

It seems to me they're saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff last patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text ("while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.") just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting a relative buff.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

that is the same impression i got as well.
the real view will be when it goes LIVE and able to see the real results.
and besides, is there really anything that can be done if we disagree with thier changes?
the answer is No.

munster1404

Masel wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

Wow, thank you for the input. So it is that bad. I can not fathom their thinking.

We wait years for a character advancement system, only to find it’s going to be border line meaningless it is so weak? I honestly don’t know if my love for the game can survive that.

It isn't meaningless... I still managed to get to 95k on the preview server while parsing. People overreact here imo. We dont need the vertical power from the system to complete any content, and I personally prefer horizontal options. Those allow for much more creativity and theorycrafting than just adding more and more passive power over time.

But that's just my opinion.

You are talking about damage output as a DD while I’m more concerned with tanking. My 5 x Argonians Tanks sustain have already dropped to the point that I need to include a “selfish set” (Maybe this is the “creativity” you were mentioning?). I was borderline ok with that because I gained a slight increase HP/Stamina/Magicka but now the devs are undoing that (all players lose 50% of the benefits if they had placed points in these passives) plus self heal and mitigation nerfs (benefits reduced by 50% as well). If this round of rebalancing are a result of the implementation of Companions, I rather they scrap this new feature. As a class rep, I do hope that you intend to scrutinise that these uncalled for nerfs.

BejaProphet

I think the most insulting thing is that he tried to spin this as addressing “the communities concerns.”

The trial community was outraged that they had to grind insane amounts to get back to their previous level of performance.

Now they forever lock them out of that level and act like they were answering the concerns about grinding. Can’t wait to see their reaction to this.

Gaggin

When someone from zos posts an announcement thats both important and poorly worded, people are gonna assume worst case scenario. To a lot of people these patch notes are going to determine whether or not they buy the expansion at all.

icAirborne

BejaProphet wrote: »

I think the most insulting thing is that he tried to spin this as addressing “the communities concerns.”

The trial community was outraged that they had to grind insane amounts to get back to their previous level of performance.

Now they forever lock them out of that level and act like they were answering the concerns about grinding. Can’t wait to see their reaction to this.

And to add onto this they had every chance to listen to players during pts, and follow through with adjusting the cp everyone had on the live server to fit with this new system. But that doesnt play well into the back to back double xp events where players potentially spend a lot more money.

Honestly I doubt they will listen now. Live is pretty much the real pts server. Broken items/sets will slip through the pts like thrassians and pale order did, despite overwhelming player feedback to adjust. Player feedback just isn’t heard until 3 patches down the line unfortunately.

Everest_Lionheart

carlos424 wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

Wow, thank you for the input. So it is that bad. I can not fathom their thinking.

We wait years for a character advancement system, only to find it’s going to be border line meaningless it is so weak? I honestly don’t know if my love for the game can survive that.

It isn't meaningless... I still managed to get to 95k on the preview server while parsing. People overreact here imo. We dont need the vertical power from the system to complete any content, and I personally prefer horizontal options. Those allow for much more creativity and theorycrafting than just adding more and more passive power over time.

But that's just my opinion.

It’s not the parse I’m worried about so much as the mitigation. I’m struggling in some vet trials to stay alive as a DPS in the current patch where the previous patch I was not. The result is that instead of slotting a shield or a self heal to pass certain mechanics I am now slotting both and in some cases an extra skill to buff my resistances. That’s skill slots where I’ve had to drop my dps skills in favour of survivability.

I’m at just over 1000CP now which means is still don’t have damage maxed and currently I’m hitting ~7% lower across the board on all my toons. Not that big of a DPS loss to be honest. To get there means I haven’t put anything into mitigation. And while the new system looks like I may be able to do just that I am not sure anything is going to really help in that department every percent helps sure. But mitigating a 30k one shot when I have 28K hp can’t be done at 4% where I could survive at 8%. So either way I will still be way over what I need for DPS and still lacking where it really counts.

Exactly this. Depending on which CP passives are decreased, block mitigation?, 8% damage reduction down to 4%, hardy down to 2%? All of these in combination will make a noticeable difference with survivability.
Maybe this is where your companion comes in. Lol

Hardy shall henceforth be known as “Hardly”

And we should probably rename Preparation as well to something more appropriate like “nearly adequate”

Mahabahabtha

Masel wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

@Masel how have you seen it? I thought the test server won’t get it until Monday?

We've been invited on a blackwood preview server over the last week to test the chapter early. These changes were on that build, but ive known that this was likely to happen for a couple weeks already. Just couldn't tell people because of NDA before, but anything we've seen on the preview is fair game so I can confirm it this way.

Gilvoth wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

It's vaguely written. My initial reading of it is different from yours.

I posted this in another thread:

Here is the pertinent section:

We also are keenly aware of the passive power this system added in the initial offering and the concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible.

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations, while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

If you ignore everything but the bolded part:

We also are keenly aware of the ... concerns you all have about getting optimal builds as soon as possible. To address these concerns, we are ... greatly lower[ing] the number of points required to get to a more optimal build in both of those constellations[.]

It seems to me they're saying that where you used to have to put 50 CP into a constellation to get a 10% buff last patch, next patch you'll only have to put ~25 or so into it. The buff itself doesn't change — only the cost to you does.*

The part after the bolded text ("while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.") just means that people with 3300 CP aren't going to be as OP compared to 810s because the 810s are going to be getting a relative buff.

* Of course it's entirely possible that I could be the one misreading this, but I don't think I am.

that is the same impression i got as well.
the real view will be when it goes LIVE and able to see the real results.

and besides, is there really anything that can be done if we disagree with thier changes?
the answer is No.






Here I can insert my answer...No, too....

Bobby_V_Rockit

It’s aggrivating, I know it’s likely just because I suck, but I can solo Veteran Arx Corinium right up until the end boss and then get stuck. Even with groups I have only beaten her once. Usually I just don’t even bother with vet content anymore

YandereGirlfriend

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

A horisontal progression where it's options for playstyle rather than vertical discovery of how to be OP is a good change. It is also what they advertised in the early life of the game

While it may not be perfect and while they should add more options to support this... it is a better design principle in terms of gameplay and balance

The issue is that they haven't followed through on horizontal progression in the slightest.

They promised more build diversity options with CP 2.0 but what we got was a recycled version of CP 1.0.

There aren't enough overall stars and the none of the current stars are strong enough to warrant any deviation away from the traditional "Keep Calm and Stack Crit" meta that we've had for aeons.

It's frankly unbelievable that this is the sum total of two years of work.

PeacefulAnarchy

Instead of cutting off the high end, why not change the 5-tiers from the current 10-10-10-10-10 where every step is the same, to 2-5-9-14-20. Same 50 points for the max, but lower level CP players can get close to the top faster, same principle as the previous CP system. This also encourages more build variety, especially for non slottables.

Stevie6

Yep, no more tanks, no more healers. Welcome to DPS online. Lowering the ceiling will result in lowering the floor. It’s not that people don’t care about rotations, LA weaving, or a number of things. Casuals, noobs, and those that play every day (low dps) we do care. However, some of us just can’t do twitch finger game play. Just won’t happen...ever.

I had a great setup pre Morrowind..Pet Sorc heavy attack build and it worked. The dps was fantastic. I was hitting most times 20 to 30k or higher without a rotation. Now I’m back down hitting 7 to 11 k dps. Everything got nerfed. The devs said in this major update, Blackwood, that they will be looking at Alcast for his input. I have nothing against him. He is a great gamer, but why can’t the devs look at the floor and get our input? As a solo player, i did my dps testing vs overland targets while using CMX or combatmatrix. I mainly use two skills, one buff and one debuff on a target. Sometimes I get 58k single target dps or 7 to 11k dps. Nothing consistent. I don’t use target dummies because that is not a realistic representation of the game/mechanics. I test on a live world boss which include dodge rolling, blocking, etc...that’s realistic for casual players.

Also, the ingame lag to really bad. I’ve had three different ISPs with all the same result at the server end...200 to 900+ms in any dungeon. It really sucks when a la or heavy attack never fires off or just standing there smashing 1 or 2 skills and nothing happens. No response. Kind of hard to get any DPS when that happens everyday. So, it’s not that casual players don’t care, we do..very much. However, some of us have to play within a terrible realization. Due to factors out of our control, we will never, ever be in end game content. Period.

I used to solo a lot of easy vet dungeons a long time ago. Now, I stick to overland farming and normal dungeons. If the devs are serious about raising the floor, then look to the past to see what did work. I’d say uncap the upper end and raise the floor up a lot. Make a basic skills do atleast 20k damage after mitigation. It’s not going to hurt anybody in pve. Just nerf the crap out of it in PVP.

A few gamers will totally disagree with this but I really don’t care. I’m not going to be doing hard mode anything, but I would like to be with 2 to 3 other like minded individuals that would like to a normal or vet dungeon knowing that we will die a lot but at least have the damage to get thru. It’s about having fun, not competition or titles, etc.

Git gud, practice...not going to happen. Casual players want to kill something at the end of a really bad day. This shouldn’t be another job..should be fun...bring back fun ZOS.

BejaProphet

UPDATE

So I’ve been listening to others who have seen the new system, and I think there is one part in the preview which I had misunderstood.

I think when they say passives they are meaning to distinguish between passives and the slottable perks. (Somebody suggested this interpretation earlier in the thread as well)

This confused me because in my mind they are all passives, and I can just choose to slot some passives. They aren’t active abilities. But apparently ZOS only means non-slottable nodes by the term “passive”.

So at this point I’m expecting on Monday to see the passive nodes nerfed just as severely as discussed, but not the slottable nodes.

If this is the case, I can see what they’re doing. I feel much better with this idea because that leaves meaningful buffs that we choose from. Meaning the system isn’t trivialized as I feared.

Anyways, I just felt that if I was going to be vocal about concerns, fairness demands I be vocal about the good parts as well.

We’ll see Monday.

colossalvoids

Yeah people are more discussing damage outputs, how they'll perform on a dummy but the real hit would be for progression groups losing their already possibly pretty low mitigation passives. Damage would be covered by new proc set rules and other stuff, np. But some things wouldn't and ofc it affects the middle and the floor the most as always.

Integral1900

4% Yawn.......... 😴😴

Seriously, if that’s what it comes to then this stuff going in the same category as the star that deals with fishing, i.e. even if you points into it you just ignore it because you can’t be bothered swapping the thing before chucking the rod in.

If all the bonuses are going to be that little then I just can’t be bothered with getting any higher cp, what would be the point, I’m just not interested in a bonus that small, and I’m telling you now, the majority of players in this game will never notice a 4% boost, let’s face it, without add-ons you’ll have a heck of a job to work out if you even have a bonus that small active in the first first place 😴🧐

Kesstryl

Stevie6 wrote: »

Yep, no more tanks, no more healers. Welcome to DPS online. Lowering the ceiling will result in lowering the floor. It’s not that people don’t care about rotations, LA weaving, or a number of things. Casuals, noobs, and those that play every day (low dps) we do care. However, some of us just can’t do twitch finger game play. Just won’t happen...ever.

I had a great setup pre Morrowind..Pet Sorc heavy attack build and it worked. The dps was fantastic. I was hitting most times 20 to 30k or higher without a rotation. Now I’m back down hitting 7 to 11 k dps. Everything got nerfed. The devs said in this major update, Blackwood, that they will be looking at Alcast for his input. I have nothing against him. He is a great gamer, but why can’t the devs look at the floor and get our input? As a solo player, i did my dps testing vs overland targets while using CMX or combatmatrix. I mainly use two skills, one buff and one debuff on a target. Sometimes I get 58k single target dps or 7 to 11k dps. Nothing consistent. I don’t use target dummies because that is not a realistic representation of the game/mechanics. I test on a live world boss which include dodge rolling, blocking, etc...that’s realistic for casual players.

Also, the ingame lag to really bad. I’ve had three different ISPs with all the same result at the server end...200 to 900+ms in any dungeon. It really sucks when a la or heavy attack never fires off or just standing there smashing 1 or 2 skills and nothing happens. No response. Kind of hard to get any DPS when that happens everyday. So, it’s not that casual players don’t care, we do..very much. However, some of us have to play within a terrible realization. Due to factors out of our control, we will never, ever be in end game content. Period.

I used to solo a lot of easy vet dungeons a long time ago. Now, I stick to overland farming and normal dungeons. If the devs are serious about raising the floor, then look to the past to see what did work. I’d say uncap the upper end and raise the floor up a lot. Make a basic skills do atleast 20k damage after mitigation. It’s not going to hurt anybody in pve. Just nerf the crap out of it in PVP.

A few gamers will totally disagree with this but I really don’t care. I’m not going to be doing hard mode anything, but I would like to be with 2 to 3 other like minded individuals that would like to a normal or vet dungeon knowing that we will die a lot but at least have the damage to get thru. It’s about having fun, not competition or titles, etc.

Git gud, practice...not going to happen. Casual players want to kill something at the end of a really bad day. This shouldn’t be another job..should be fun...bring back fun ZOS.

This is also my position. I was actually finally starting to get into progression groups a couple years ago and holding my own, and I quit playing almost a year ago after that year of nerfs made it harder for me to keep up. I have carpal tunnel syndrome and can't LA weave very well without my hands going to hell. I quit when PvE tanks started getting nerfed due to PvP because that was what I mained since I couldn't dps. I've been watching every since to see if there might be a time when I can come back home to this game, but all the new nerfs make it seem unlikely. Maybe I'll come back after I see what Companions do, but it will probably be to decorate my houses and just do story quests. My days of progression are over.

Masel

munster1404 wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

Wow, thank you for the input. So it is that bad. I can not fathom their thinking.

We wait years for a character advancement system, only to find it’s going to be border line meaningless it is so weak? I honestly don’t know if my love for the game can survive that.

It isn't meaningless... I still managed to get to 95k on the preview server while parsing. People overreact here imo. We dont need the vertical power from the system to complete any content, and I personally prefer horizontal options. Those allow for much more creativity and theorycrafting than just adding more and more passive power over time.

But that's just my opinion.

You are talking about damage output as a DD while I’m more concerned with tanking. My 5 x Argonians Tanks sustain have already dropped to the point that I need to include a “selfish set” (Maybe this is the “creativity” you were mentioning?). I was borderline ok with that because I gained a slight increase HP/Stamina/Magicka but now the devs are undoing that (all players lose 50% of the benefits if they had placed points in these passives) plus self heal and mitigation nerfs (benefits reduced by 50% as well). If this round of rebalancing are a result of the implementation of Companions, I rather they scrap this new feature. As a class rep, I do hope that you intend to scrutinise that these uncalled for nerfs.

Let me rephrase my point: i think that nerfs across the board were very much justified.

Nonetheless, I get what you mean, I've noticed tanking becoming harder as well. I've tanked everything up to Gryphon Heart (including portal) in Flames of Ambition after the changes. But I still don't see the fact that you need to go for more defense as a bad thing. Tanking hard content should be hard enough to challenge everyone.
If anything, I see the requirements that groups put on tanks as a problem; many groups do tell their tanks to run group support all the way despite the nerfs and have very high expectations on their survivability. For example, all tanks in our group for GH ran master 1h&s for a lot of stuff now and it makes surviving much easier and you can still run 2 support sets, with one on the back bar only (yolna works fine with range taunt on the back bar for example). You can still be very tanky if you want to!

This is totally unrelated to companions btw... they don't have any bearing on balance. I don''t get why players assume they do? They take up a group member slot and are in every regard worse than a skilled player.

I'm just expressing my personal opinion here and we don't have to agree here; that doesnt mean I won't pass along your feedback.

Supreme_Atromancer

@Masel please pass on this: A lot of us are feeling like the champion points are useless or worse.

Champion Points are meant to serve, first and foremost, as a system for progression.

Right now, in real terms, horizontal progression is also capped - you reach the apex level of horizontal "power" the moment you have enough cp for 4 slottables. What is the value of acquiring new functionality when that same functionality can be accessed so easily via respec?

Most of us accept and support that power levels need to be kept in check in both directions. Horizontal Progression, in theory, is an excellent way to make us feel like our characters can still develop and progress. But cp2.0 "horizontal progression" does neither of those things because the progress it offers is utterly redundant.

Also, nerfing base game drop rates so that you can "gain" similar bonuses to what we had prior to 2.0 is lame. We had years of no progress, earning champion points that have turned out to be completely redundant. If the philosophy behind making people feel like their characters are developing is to find sneaky ways to make them tread water instead, that stinks.

Aertew

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

I don't mind whole playerbase nerfs as long as they will also nerf most difficult content in game. Most of content is too easy, so going down with endgame power may be good, but at the same time it would be nice to have possibility to finish some harder content without being total hardcore or breaking keyboard...

What I don't like it this game is fact that for most time I'm doing things that are too easy (which is boring) or too difficult (which is frustrating because I'm not Dark souls type guy).

End-game content players get 2 dungeons and a trial.

Causal players get 2 whole storylines, side quests, collectibles, and now companions.

Give end-game players something engaging to do. Don't dumb it down.