Pale order nerfs

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  • NordSwordnBoard
    NordSwordnBoard
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    Sounds like I won't be in more than a duo in PvP wearing PO if this is the case. I will still be sapping heal targeting from random healers though, won't I? Or will they make it so those don't target me instead of people who can receive it?


    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • Elvenheart
    Elvenheart
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    I mostly use Pale Order solo, so if that is the only change it kinda does not affect me (and every one who is using this item solo). Assuming of course if % values will stay the same. I do wonder though if Companion would count as a "group member" thought 🤔...

    I wonder if we can equip a mythic on a companion?
  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    Elvenheart wrote: »

    I wonder if we can equip a mythic on a companion?

    No. Companions have their own gear, which you cannot wear.
    PC EU

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  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    I mostly use Pale Order solo, so if that is the only change it kinda does not affect me (and every one who is using this item solo). Assuming of course if % values will stay the same. I do wonder though if Companion would count as a "group member" thought 🤔...

    Companions are included in your group window and occupy a group slot. They have a different colour to players in the group window.
    Edited by Masel on April 16, 2021 4:23PM
    PC EU

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  • Revandor
    Revandor
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    I hate the fact that they are nerfing it while in a group. I won't be changing my gear just for a daily random dungeon or whatever just because of that. Most of the time I run solo or duo to clear the daily stuff which is why I love that ring. It provides decent sustain and I don't have to rely on fake healers in random Q's.
    I realize that some healer out there hate that ring ( I don't quite understand why since that persons death is not on you and you can save mana having to heal only 3 rather than 4), but everyone should be able to play the game as they want to play it with a build they feel comfy with.
    Indirectly forcing people to not use the ring while in a group is just an unfair approach imo and giving a buff while solo does not compensate for that nerf while being grouped.

    ALSO
    This ring was prob. the BIS for most vampire setups after vamps got totally destroyed. I mean look at this. An ability that drains your HP per sec which increases after each tick and only you can heal yourself. The whole mechanic around vamps are to play solo in the dark and relying on your own heals. Might as well use that ring since there is no difference anyways. The moment this item gets nerfed you can throw away most vamp setups even class combinations.
    But someone else mentioned that aspect already I suppose.
    Glad they introduced a new mythic for WW at least.

    Imagine that ring with companions... They introduce a new companion system to help out solo players but every solo player with that ring can't really use the companion due to a ring being more reliable than a AI trying to heal you.

    Here is an idea on how to make everyone happy.
    -Leave the buffs
    -Apply the nerfs with a small change: While in a 3 member or higher group you can be healed by other heal sources than your
    own.


    Just on the side note:
    This is not WoW so please healers... don't act like the only job of the healer is to heal. DPS is important in general so feel free to deal damage and be thankful for the moments where you do not have to heal someone on the field while your tank is in need of a shield.
  • PigofSteel
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    Pale ring is good as it is solo mostly...
  • Riptide
    Riptide
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    Good and reasonable update.
    Esse quam videri.
  • GorHanis
    GorHanis
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    Pale order good as is... its solo trinket.
    Based on the frenchie preview, the Malacath changes looks extremly stupid too.
    Is there any serious game system and balance developer there, with any common sense?

    Who the hell wanna use a -50% crit ring (virtually base crit for reasonable crit builds, or none the others)
    for 16% damage bonus? LOL... in practice it is the same negative effect for a far worse merit.

    Logic? Devs?
  • Niblix
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    With all the fake tanks/healers and no sign of ZoS doing anything the Pale Order ring needs to be buffed for random groups.
  • skooma_dealer
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    Niblix wrote: »
    With all the fake tanks/healers and no sign of ZoS doing anything the Pale Order ring needs to be buffed for random groups.

    This. For random dungeons I run mostly PO, since almost every second healer is actually a fake healer. ZOS should solve this problem first and foremost and only then nerf a tool which helps people to survive.

  • Izaki
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    DARKSTER1 wrote: »

    On solo it will be buffed. But any viability of the vamp toggle of the vamp skills in general. Is thrown out of the window. Reaving blows ain't enough to sustain anything. So unlike they give lifesteal or something just big RIP. It will be viable in dungeons though. Just less strong (rip true sworn fury builds)

    Honestly its a good thing, because the vamp toggle/blood for blood/pale order meta was just stupid.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
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  • AuraStorm43
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    Blame the vampire toggle people in pve, thats why its happening, was a stupid combo anyways
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    DARKSTER1 wrote: »
    I'm new in forums so i struggle to find the picture. A guildie sent it to me with the 2 mythic changes so I'll list it here!
    Malacath: increases your damage by X% but decreases your critical chance by X% (i guess NB will be OP on BG now)
    Pale order: restores X% of your damage as health. This value is reduced by X% for each group member. You can only recieve Care from yourself.
    I did put X because I don't want to get banned from forum rules in case i leak the numbers. But pale order legit ends up being useless from 5 people and onward.
    Gets a buff on solo but loses effectiveness with the more members....
    The buff isn't HUGE either....
    This practically takes all blood for blood viability and throws it once again out of the window in trials.
    If anyone knows any way i can post pictures tell me btw

    Its rare that I look at a nerf and think, man, ZOS nailed this, but this nerf is perfect (at least on paper). Keeps ROTP viable solo and in small groups, and nerfs (hopefully into oblivion) the ROTP and Shimmering Frenzy Trial meta.
  • ClawOfTheTwoMoons
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    As a healer I'm happy to see the change. Imagine having my whole role and identity replaced with a ring lol. It's still good in solo and small groups, and yes I know a healers job is more than healing but if I can't heal anyone why bother? Might as well play a low dps with support sets.
  • Goregrinder
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    So if they bump it up to 20%, and every group member reduces that number by 4%, that would mean in a 4 man group with 3 other people you'd still get an 8% on each hit as health up to the cap right? Stacked on top of the CP star which gives health back with damage, you're still in the green wearing the pale order ring in 4 man content right?
  • Revandor
    Revandor
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    So if they bump it up to 20%, and every group member reduces that number by 4%, that would mean in a 4 man group with 3 other people you'd still get an 8% on each hit as health up to the cap right? Stacked on top of the CP star which gives health back with damage, you're still in the green wearing the pale order ring in 4 man content right?

    Yes and No. For this to work properly you'd need to be high in your CP which means newer people can't really use it and makes this item kinda pointless.

    Let me sum it as I currently see it.
    -Very good for vamps as vamps can't get healed anyways by others thanks to its great ability changes with frenzy. Nerfing this = nerfing vamps in group content as well.

    -Good for solo play in general to have a decent amount of sustain.

    -Good to do daily dungeons not having to deal with fake healers. Honestly I don't want to Q up for a daily dungeon for 40 minutes just because of a missing healer or a tank. With this ring you can pretty much run anything in normal mode. Most people run through the dungeon anyways with their high CP and newer people can't keep up. 2 of my friends left after I convinced them to play because of that. So if they want to nerf group content they should start with CP out scaling the difficulty in normal mode -->just food for thought.

    -Why introduce a new system with comrades if there is an item that can't be used properly with it.

    -Nerf is justifiable for Vet/Hard mode because you wants to have a kamikaze build on their team?
    -This item nerfs the aspect of socializing which is not a good thing in a community based game.

    I agree on changing the item but not like this. Find a different solution like the one i posted previously.
    Heck maybe just change the item for veteran/hard mode and make it part of the set effect instead just like you have the monster sets stating that damage against trial bosses is increased.
  • Goregrinder
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    Revandor wrote: »

    Yes and No. For this to work properly you'd need to be high in your CP which means newer people can't really use it and makes this item kinda pointless.

    Let me sum it as I currently see it.
    -Very good for vamps as vamps can't get healed anyways by others thanks to its great ability changes with frenzy. Nerfing this = nerfing vamps in group content as well.

    -Good for solo play in general to have a decent amount of sustain.

    -Good to do daily dungeons not having to deal with fake healers. Honestly I don't want to Q up for a daily dungeon for 40 minutes just because of a missing healer or a tank. With this ring you can pretty much run anything in normal mode. Most people run through the dungeon anyways with their high CP and newer people can't keep up. 2 of my friends left after I convinced them to play because of that. So if they want to nerf group content they should start with CP out scaling the difficulty in normal mode -->just food for thought.

    -Why introduce a new system with comrades if there is an item that can't be used properly with it.

    -Nerf is justifiable for Vet/Hard mode because you wants to have a kamikaze build on their team?
    -This item nerfs the aspect of socializing which is not a good thing in a community based game.

    I agree on changing the item but not like this. Find a different solution like the one i posted previously.
    Heck maybe just change the item for veteran/hard mode and make it part of the set effect instead just like you have the monster sets stating that damage against trial bosses is increased.

    But without the help from CP, the ring is still going to give 8% of your damage back as health, assuming the buff to 20% is correct.
  • SickleCider
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    Pale Order still needs its own version of Clippy the Paperclip.

    "It looks like you just stepped into vCR. Would you like help? 1. Take off Pale Order ring. 2. Choose death. 3. Don't show me this tip again (I don't know why I'm like this and there's no helping me.)"
    ✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    I personally feel like the set needs a minimum cap. Thing is pretty much dead in trials which will be the true final nail in the coffin for vampire builds in endgame content when it comes to DPS.

    Edit: Also large scale group PVP to. Would be better just to ungroup and follow your allies.
    Edited by Vevvev on May 3, 2021 6:40PM
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • what_the
    what_the
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    ApoAlaia wrote: »

    Definitely not RIP for me either, I don't wear PO when in group, not even in PUGs.

    ^^this^^
    since the ring was meant primarily for the solo player, and kinda was being abused in large group situations, this update solidifies its primary use. With the health pr hit cap removed, it's quite the buff for the solo player.(and even 2 possibly 3 man groups)
  • Suna_Ye_Sunnabe
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    Good riddance to it. I loathe that ring when I come into four man groups as a healer and literally cannot do my job. Imagine if they had a ring that prevented the tank from taunting? Stuff like Pale Order belongs in solo content imo.
    Angua Anyammis Ae Sunna
  • Tethilia
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    Revandor wrote: »
    I agree on changing the item but not like this. Find a different solution like the one i posted previously.
    Heck maybe just change the item for veteran/hard mode and make it part of the set effect instead just like you have the monster sets stating that damage against trial bosses is increased.

    Exactly! Lets just make it so when you enter a large group the effect changes. Maybe instead of siphoning health at that point, it absorbs healing and gives it to you as a HOT at a fixed rate.
  • Tethilia
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    Or maybe make the ring act differently for Vamps vs Nonvamps
  • Sergykid
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    all mythics are a mistake and they should withdraw from this garbage before they dig themselves deeper into it.
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • Tethilia
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    I would like some cursed mythics that make the game harder but give good benefits for it.
  • Starlight_Whisper
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    DARKSTER1 wrote: »

    On solo it will be buffed. But any viability of the vamp toggle of the vamp skills in general. Is thrown out of the window. Reaving blows ain't enough to sustain anything. So unlike they give lifesteal or something just big RIP. It will be viable in dungeons though. Just less strong (rip true sworn fury builds)

    Disappointing still viable in dungeons. Those are the worst offenders.
  • ArchMikem
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    I'm pretty certain the point behind the ring was to give all solo players another method to self heal, which is why i got one for my MagKnight that had horrible healing issues. The ring doesn't belong in group play as you're expected to have dedicated Healers for that purpose.

    If this is a nerf its a necessary one. The ring was making the Healer role more useless than it was.
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  • Athan1
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    Finally a positive change. The other day I was trying to heal a fellow Templar who was constantly low on health. Kept wasting my magicka and time until I realised he was wearing the cursed ring (he seemed to be healed half of the time but these were his own class heals so I was confused).
    Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr
  • thomasadinkerke
    Pale Order still needs its own version of Clippy the Paperclip.

    "It looks like you just stepped into vCR. Would you like help? 1. Take off Pale Order ring. 2. Choose death. 3. Don't show me this tip again (I don't know why I'm like this and there's no helping me.)"

    5EVw3ff.png

  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Blame the vampire toggle people in pve, thats why its happening, was a stupid combo anyways

    It was the only way to get vampire to work...
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
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