Official Discussion Thread for "Introducing Endeavors, A New Way to Acquire Crown Crate Items"

TheImperfect

This is really great, nice to have another method to do that.

James-Wayne

Yes Microsoft purchase is paying off again now lets get some Aussie Azure servers happening!!

RedMuse

Fischblut wrote: »

This includes any of the crate’s consumables (such as potions or XP scrolls), pets, cosmetics, or even its extremely rare Radiant Apex mounts.

So does it mean that even old crate seasons will have Radiants available for gems/seals during their next returns?

Well as you can only purchase things from crown crates that is in the store at the time, I guess they may add radiant mounts to them as they reappear.

Contraptions

I'm getting some battle pass/nightwave flashbacks from this...

Is this system only for gambling crate loot box items? Would be cool to eventually earn other crown store stuff in game, mounts/costumes etc.

tinythinker

We already get things through daily login rewards that we may not need or want, so it's great that for Endeavors we get to choose a reward, but can we have some way to get rid of unwanted crown items not eligible for gem-ification other than Type DESTROY?

We can't sell them for gold or convert them to gems, so, maybe 1/1,000 of a Seal of Endeavor? Some vendor that offers to trade?

Anything?

phantasmalD

I don't really see why you'd introduce a new currency when we already have crown gems. Seems like unnecessary complication.

Elsonso

phantasmalD wrote: »

I don't really see why you'd introduce a new currency when we already have crown gems. Seems like unnecessary complication.

My theories...
1. It prevents people from having a new way to add to their Gem pile.
2. The Seals will be worth fractional Gems, so they cannot be added together with integer math.
3. They really want people to continue to buy Crown Crates and blow through them to make Gems. Adding a special snowflake currency makes it inconvenient.

Galwylin

One of the reasons I was so happy to hear Microsoft (or anyone really) had bought Bethesda was I'd hope their greedy side would be brought into alignment. Not saying Microsoft doesn't like money but it seems the old owners were doing everything possible to raise a buck so this is great to hear. I do hope the grind isn't too bad that we'd all rather just spend the cash which sometimes happens but I'm staying positive with this development.

OMA

I am SO HAPPY. I don't care how long it takes to grind these things, it just looks like all we have to do is what we do every day, play the game. I never liked the idea that a lot of very unique and nifty things were locked away behind the loot box system when I was more than willing to spend my hard earned cash to obtain them straight from the crown store. Now? It's even better that all I need to do is play the game and full fill a few of these Endeavors. I expect Apex items will be a hefty price and long term goal but I'm sure that with perseverance some of us will obtain them this way.

THANK YOU ZOS!

KMarble

Elsonso wrote: »

The catch is the Grind. The are no restrictions on the brutality, or pointlessness, of the Grind. If ZOS RNG has taught us anything, they love the grind. I expect that the grind to get Seals to buy desired loot box items will be brutal. Perhaps not at the "impossible, for all intents and purposes" level, like the Ciphers and Dust, but brutal.

In this case... the brutal grind is the long grind, not the hard grind.

This is why I want to see the details. How many daily and weekly quests will someone have to do in order to buy a Radiant Apex mount with Seals? 100? 1000? This is the asterisk, and what they are not saying.

I could be wrong, but the way I see it, they're giving us a never-ending event. One that doesn't require a background story or new NPCs. I suspect that, at best, we'll see a new board (like for the writs) with the dailies and weeklies; but it wouldn't surprise me if it was just another window we can bring up in the UI.

It's busy work, one intended to keep players in game for longer and, if done well, entice some players to get out of their comfort zone. It also shifts the attention away from the stories and try to make players focus on getting more currency.

Why are they "padding" content?

Susan_Sto

Are we going to have the chance to buy items from the Orbororo creates?

I really want that mount and keep getting the cub. I'd still watch the twitch streams just for the gems.

Trevore

Will there ever be a way to earn in-game currency that we can exchange for crowns? Seals of endeavor are a very good way to address crown crates/loot boxes, but I'm really hoping that these seals of endeavor will one day extend to most if not all items in the crown store (Or at least give us an exchange system for crowns). This would let everybody have opportunities to get the things they want, but still giving them the chance to earn it.

jaws343

Trevore wrote: »

Will there ever be a way to earn in-game currency that we can exchange for crowns? Seals of endeavor are a very good way to address crown crates/loot boxes, but I'm really hoping that these seals of endeavor will one day extend to most if not all items in the crown store (Or at least give us an exchange system for crowns). This would let everybody have opportunities to get the things they want, but still giving them the chance to earn it.

I'd doubt it. The only thing I'd ever expect these to be useful for are items that cannot be bought directly for money currently. Non-crown crate items can be purchased directly, and I doubt they would ever sacrifice that revenue stream to give the items for free to players.

Alphawolf01A

KMarble wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I could be wrong, but the way I see it, they're giving us a never-ending event. One that doesn't require a background story or new NPCs. I suspect that, at best, we'll see a new board (like for the writs) with the dailies and weeklies; but it wouldn't surprise me if it was just another window we can bring up in the UI.

It's busy work, one intended to keep players in game for longer and, if done well, entice some players to get out of their comfort zone. It also shifts the attention away from the stories and try to make players focus on getting more currency.

Why are they "padding" content?

IIRC the Endeavors are listed under the Activity Finder Tab.

Elsonso

KMarble wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

The catch is the Grind. The are no restrictions on the brutality, or pointlessness, of the Grind. If ZOS RNG has taught us anything, they love the grind. I expect that the grind to get Seals to buy desired loot box items will be brutal. Perhaps not at the "impossible, for all intents and purposes" level, like the Ciphers and Dust, but brutal.

In this case... the brutal grind is the long grind, not the hard grind.

This is why I want to see the details. How many daily and weekly quests will someone have to do in order to buy a Radiant Apex mount with Seals? 100? 1000? This is the asterisk, and what they are not saying.

I could be wrong, but the way I see it, they're giving us a never-ending event. One that doesn't require a background story or new NPCs. I suspect that, at best, we'll see a new board (like for the writs) with the dailies and weeklies; but it wouldn't surprise me if it was just another window we can bring up in the UI.

It's busy work, one intended to keep players in game for longer and, if done well, entice some players to get out of their comfort zone. It also shifts the attention away from the stories and try to make players focus on getting more currency.

I have not seen the new Endeavors interface, but I expect that it will be a dialog. It might even be a page in the Crown Store. They seem drift in the direction of favoring meta (out-of-world) UI stuff for new systems. Besides, this could be a rush job, with no time to get people to place something in the game world.

As for busy work, that is a given. The question is how bad.

Alphawolf01A

"You can see your tasks in the new Endeavors menu, found within the Activity Finder."

Valion

Hejya!

To me, it seems more than obvious that ZOS is still going to milk the cow any way possible.
The random numbers on the crates are not a tittle short of some Asian mobile games algorithm, and we all know that.
We are talking per mille for these cash-wall hidden mounts!

These restrictions that come into place on the gambling aspects in games are not a matter of choice, but utter necessity to prevent people from indulging into some psychologically well thought-out schemes and addictions. That's why they set laws in place - from the governmental sides in many European countries.
(I am sorry if I am pointing out the obvious or preaching the choir.)

I'm not saying that ESO is too deeply ridden into this mess, its "offers" being of a rather aesthetic nature.
All I am saying is that ZOS is not going this way to make things "fair" or "transparent", but not to lose too much of their financial profits from playing with their crowds' addictions in game.
The one point that proves this is simply the emplacement of the Seals of Endeavor - instead of actualizing the way Crown Gems can be spend.
In my eyes, the introduction of yet another currency is exactly the path hundreds of other manufacturers went down when things got ugly.
Interlocked, puzzled traces one can just follow up with immense ammounts of time and effort and grind - while the rich kids and credit card spivs simply ride by with the hottest whips in town.
And that's not cool.
That's just sad.

One way or the other -
Nice Dice and Tally-H0, mates!
Val

Seraphayel

Ghostbane wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Hmmm.

1. Is this ZOS backing away a little from loot boxes?
2. Is this Microsoft telling ZOS to back away from loot boxes?
3. Is this a misdirection so that future legislation won't apply to Crown Crates?

Honestly, I never would have pegged ZOS for backing away from loot boxes outside of some external stimulus. This seems to go against the tide. I am waiting for the asterisk. The catch. The fine print.

No catch, https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/community/for-everyone/responsible-gaming/loot-boxes/ ( #2 )

Some of us pointed this out a while back, but didn't think something would be established so quickly by ZoS. Hats off!

I think this is really important to point out. Without Microsoft‘s acquisition of Zenimax, this whole system would not be introduced to ESO. This is something mandatory due to Microsoft’s guidelines on loot boxes.

RedMuse

Susan_Sto wrote: »

Are we going to have the chance to buy items from the Orbororo creates?

I really want that mount and keep getting the cub. I'd still watch the twitch streams just for the gems.

@Susan_Sto read the article. It clearly states what can (and cannot) be bought with Seals.

Kallykat

I just don't understand why a new and separate currency was introduced. We have so many already, and none of them can be converted to another (at least not the ones I use).

If they want to make the new system give out currency that is worth less than gems, why not at least make is crown gem fragments or something similar? Five or ten fragments could automatically convert to one crown gem.

At least then buying crates and doing the daily grind could work together and fill the same pot. As it stands, I might fulfill half the purchase requirement for the item I want in crown gems and half in seals but still not be able to purchase the item.

VaranisArano

Kallykat wrote: »

I just don't understand why a new and separate currency was introduced. We have so many already, and none of them can be converted to another (at least not the ones I use).

If they want to make the new system give out currency that is worth less than gems, why not at least make is crown gem fragments or something similar? Five or ten fragments could automatically convert to one crown gem.

At least then buying crates and doing the daily grind could work together and fill the same pot. As it stands, I might fulfill half the purchase requirement for the item I want in crown gems and half in seals but still not be able to purchase the item.

A lot of it is psychological as a monetization technique.

On of the reasons for separate currencies is because it prevents easy comparisons like "What?! I have to do X dailies to earn Y crown gem fragments to equal a single gem! That's unfair!"

It's not that people can't and won't do the math of how many tasks they have to do in order to get what they want, but placing it at one remove through a separate currency makes easier for ZOS to hide the real cost of Seals vs Gems from players who don't do the math. Then we note that Gems are one step remove from Crowns, which are one step removed from real money, and we see even more benefits. By the time we hit the question of "Is it worth it to buy Crates with Crowns to accumulate Crown Gems vs doing the tasks for Seals of Endeavor?" we're a long way from thinking about how much real money we're talking about using to buy those Crowns in the first place.

And that's why everything doesn't just cost real money in the first place. People might think twice about buying 4 Crates for $15, but 4 crates for 1500 Crowns doesn't quite evoke the same sensation of spending the actual money from your wallet.

It sounds bizarre to talk about monetization in a system that's giving a free in-game way to get stuff (well, free except in terms of time). But since Seals of Endeavor are tied to the heavily monetized Crown Crates, the whole thing IS monetized. The separate currency business is designed to make sure that buying Crates with Crowns and buying items with Gems is still profitable, while making Seals of Endeavor look reasonable enough that it passes muster as a way to legitimize loot crate gambling.


At least the Seals of Endeavor isn't as punishing as Warframe's task-based currency in Nightwave. Nightwave creds expire at the end of every "season" so it's basically use it or lose it. Seals of Endeavor could be worse.

Susan_Sto

RedMuse wrote: »

Susan_Sto wrote: »

Are we going to have the chance to buy items from the Orbororo creates?

I really want that mount and keep getting the cub. I'd still watch the twitch streams just for the gems.

@Susan_Sto read the article. It clearly states what can (and cannot) be bought with Seals.

Wow, I hadn't thought to do that. Thanks for the insightful suggestion.

BTW I have, and would still love to buy the Radiant mount in Orbororo crate but I can't as it isn't available in the Crown store, currently it is only available as a drop with rng. My query is it likely to be added to the Crown store in future.

RedMuse

Susan_Sto wrote: »

RedMuse wrote: »

Susan_Sto wrote: »

Are we going to have the chance to buy items from the Orbororo creates?

I really want that mount and keep getting the cub. I'd still watch the twitch streams just for the gems.

@Susan_Sto read the article. It clearly states what can (and cannot) be bought with Seals.

Wow, I hadn't thought to do that. Thanks for the insightful suggestion.

BTW I have, and would still love to buy the Radiant mount in Orbororo crate but I can't as it isn't available in the Crown store, currently it is only available as a drop with rng. My query is it likely to be added to the Crown store in future.

Unless they're added to a crown crate season, then you wouldn't be able to buy them with seals. The article clearly states that this is a currency meant solely for crown crate items and that only items from the crown crates currently in the store can be bought with the seals. So unless they add the Ouroboros crates to the crown store and lets be real that's very unlikely, then the answer to your question is an obvious no.

genzo528

Is there a way for me to start my own thread?

Slyclone

Legit good call. Thank you.

thegreatme

Trevore wrote: »

Will there ever be a way to earn in-game currency that we can exchange for crowns? Seals of endeavor are a very good way to address crown crates/loot boxes, but I'm really hoping that these seals of endeavor will one day extend to most if not all items in the crown store (Or at least give us an exchange system for crowns). This would let everybody have opportunities to get the things they want, but still giving them the chance to earn it.

Likely they will never make regular crown store items available for Endeavors because its ZoS's way of getting around the Loot Crate mandates under Microsoft policy and the laws.

From a legal standpoint, it was basically either introduce a way to earn Loot Crate stuff through game play, therein partially removing the gambling aspect (its also why Radiant Apexes are now purchasable for Gems, rather than exclusive to RNG) or stop releasing Loot Crates altogether.

Since ZoS makes lots of money off of Crown Crates, its obvious they'll go with the earnable route while still offering crates for money to those who want to buy (i.e. the Whales mostly, who aren't afraid to spend thousands on gambling).

Crown Store items outside of crates are a Direct Buy, so they have no legal requirement to meet with making them available for Endeavors. Which means they're not going to do it.

Still, its an improvement regardless because of the uncertain nature of Crate drops.

NordJitsu

Gilvoth wrote: »

Quote:
"This is to ensure that everybody, regardless of their play style, has an opportunity to earn the new currency without having to complete activities they don’t necessarily enjoy."
End Quote:

what about pvp? everything listed in activities choices was for pve only.

I would also like an answer to this. Seems PvP community is being excluded.

Edit: NVM, saw the dev comment. Seems like a good improvement particularly once PvP gets included.

TerraDewBerry

NordJitsu wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Quote:
"This is to ensure that everybody, regardless of their play style, has an opportunity to earn the new currency without having to complete activities they don’t necessarily enjoy."
End Quote:

what about pvp? everything listed in activities choices was for pve only.

I would also like an answer to this. Seems PvP community is being excluded.

Edit: NVM, saw the dev comment. Seems like a good improvement particularly once PvP gets included.

PvP is included. I've seen all sorts of PvP things for endeavors. Things like, do X amount of damage in Cyrodiil with siege equipment, kill 5 players in Cyrodiil, Kill X number of Delve bosses in Cyrodiil (which is technically PVE, but you could run into another opposite faction player, so also possibly PvP), Kill X Bosses in Imperial City, complete quests in all the five different towns in Cyrodiil.. and several others I don't remember. PvP, it's in there.

Septimus_Magna

The good part is that more items will be obtainable just by playing the game, I always hate seeing cool stuff that can only be unlocked by pulling out your credit card.

The deciding factor will be the cost of endeavor seals, if you have to grind a couple months to buy a simple item than its not worth the effort. Lets hope the prices for endeavors will be somewhat reasonable.

Giraffon

phantasmalD wrote: »

I don't really see why you'd introduce a new currency when we already have crown gems. Seems like unnecessary complication.

Crown gems should never even have existed if you ask me. Just put whatever is in the crown crates also up for sale in the crown store. If you get something in a crate you already have, just refund crowns. There was never a need for gems.

While I'm ranting:

- Event tickets should not be capped at 12. So what if people want to stockpile them, what does it hurt?
- WHY am I STILL falling off my mount passing through some city gates?!?
-