Crystallized slab way too weak.

albumoculus

Seeing as update 30 is right around the corner and hopefully some abilites that are overpeforming and under performing will be addressed one way or another. With having said that, I honestly haven't seen anyone use crystalized slab ever, there is not a single build out there that picks it before shimmering shield, not a single one Google it if you want to confirm. I also discussed on the tank club discord and not a single tank I talked to would ever pick it over shimmering shields. Same goes for magwarden. The problem is that it's too short, the shield is great yes and I don't think that aspect needs to be buffed, but it only reflects 3 ice bolts, which means that by the time you've cast it it's over. It's so so under performing against it's other morph shimmering shield. One thing that could make it more appealing is to increase the amount of icy bolts it returns or decrease the cooldown of the bolts by 2 seconds in between, I honestly don't mind if the damage was reduced because that's not the problem, the problem is that not a single person uses it.

Elo106

compared to ball of lightning and the other morph shimmering shield it is not that great, its basically DK wings isnt it? (with a shield instead of damage reduction)

albumoculus

Elo106 wrote: »

compared to ball of lightning and the other morph shimmering shield it is not that great, its basically DK wings isnt it? (with a shield instead of damage reduction)

Well if you ignore the fact that it gives you major heroism every time you activate it, then sire it's nothing special, but it does give you major heroism and that's why it is infinite times better than DK wings, DK wings costs way more, and I wish that crystallized slab had the same function as DK wings, since DK wings sends back as many projectiles as possible within it's spawn of uptime.

YandereGirlfriend

Increase the amount of icy bolts that are reflected 5-6, (won't have to recast after 2 seconds).

I'm always trying to advance the Frost Warden Agenda so I'm ALL for re-working this skill into something actually useful for at least that niche.

I would happily see the duration extended to an Empowered Ward-like 10 seconds and then to have the cap on returned projectiles lifted a la Dragon Fire Scale.

I would also happily see this skill drop the damage shield angle entirely and instead transformed into a genuine offensive damage ability (since Frost Wardens desperately lack for them) like a Frost version of Flames of Oblivion.

Icicle Ambush
Cast Time: Intant
Target: Area
Radius: 15 meters
Cost: 2160 Magicka

Description: Conjure a frigid frost aura that launches an icicle at the nearest enemy every X seconds, dealing Y Frost Damage. Enemies struck with an icicle are afflicted with a stack of Deep Freeze for X seconds which increases their Frost Damage taken by 2%. Deep Freeze may stack up to 5 times.

robpr

It's not that Slab is weak, its just Major Heroism is too juicy to lose. It's the same case as DK wings morphs, one gives Snare immunity that you already can have from superior RAT, the other shoots at enemies every 0.5s.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I don't agree at all, don't touch the ability

While I like shimmering shield and don't want it nerfed, I don't think crystallized slab is weak. It's just rarely used because it has to compete with a morph that's close to being op.
I'm sure many of the other classes would happily trade their hp based shield for crystallized slab.

Sangwyne

I don't agree at all, don't touch the ability

Slab honestly seems quite decent, but compare it to permanent Major Heroism and of course it's going to seem bad. Major Heroism is quite strong and normally really difficult to get otherwise, Last Resort for instance requires that you slot it and even then only gives the buff when you take damage below 20% Max HP. As a DK I would trade Wings for Slab in a heartbeat, although that's not saying much since Wings as it currently stands is pretty terrible. Slab completely negates the damage from the projectiles while Dragon Fire Scale merely reduces it by 50% for a whopping 6 whole seconds. Like how Iceheart was nerfed to make room for Mother Ciannait, DK wings were most likely dumpstered so that a DLC class could have a better, shinier version of one of DK's most iconic skills.

albumoculus

Did any of you folks read my post, okay I suppose I called it weak in the title but in my post I argued that there is no reason for picking it instead of shimmering shield and therefore it should be tweaked to a least fit one role.

Elo106

albumoculus wrote: »

Elo106 wrote: »

compared to ball of lightning and the other morph shimmering shield it is not that great, its basically DK wings isnt it? (with a shield instead of damage reduction)

Well if you ignore the fact that it gives you major heroism every time you activate it, then sire it's nothing special, but it does give you major heroism and that's why it is infinite times better than DK wings, DK wings costs way more, and I wish that crystallized slab had the same function as DK wings, since DK wings sends back as many projectiles as possible within it's spawn of uptime.

I ment Crystallized slab is basically DK wings, shimmering is in the same box as ball of lightning they are both op.

crystallized shields all the damage from a few projectiles, DK reduces for the duration but doesnt shield you, both kinda meh

zvavi

I don't agree at all, don't touch the ability

As a ranged build in PvP, this one ability negates all my damage... So I wouldn't want either morph buffed.

Kartalin

Partially agree, however

The bolts it returns are too slow and easily dodged. What if the bolts return at the same speed as the attack that triggered them?

Armethius

[snip] I use crystallized slab, I don't need all this ultimate anyway. The projectiles force people to roll dodge burns their stamina or adds a little extra dps if they do not. It still makes me basically immune for range damage for almost infinite time.

[edited for baiting]

YandereGirlfriend

Increase the amount of icy bolts that are reflected 5-6, (won't have to recast after 2 seconds).

zvavi wrote: »

As a ranged build in PvP, this one ability negates all my damage... So I wouldn't want either morph buffed.

This is not a compelling argument.

One morphs lags far behind the other. There are simply too few overall skills in ESO to waste precious morphs like this.

Sangwyne

I don't agree at all, don't touch the ability

albumoculus wrote: »

Did any of you folks read my post, okay I suppose I called it weak in the title but in my post I argued that there is no reason for picking it instead of shimmering shield and therefore it should be tweaked to a least fit one role.

Slab is fine, Shimmering is what needs tweaking. It goes Shimmering>Slab>Dragon Fire Scale>Protective Plate, can't understand why you're asking for MORE Warden buffs when it's already just a vastly superior version of one of DK's most iconic abilities. Wings need a sizeable buff first and Shimmering should provide Minor Heroism instead, Major is far too rare and valuable and Warden already has near-exclusive access to many other potent buffs as well.

zvavi

I don't agree at all, don't touch the ability

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

As a ranged build in PvP, this one ability negates all my damage... So I wouldn't want either morph buffed.

This is not a compelling argument.

One morphs lags far behind the other. There are simply too few overall skills in ESO to waste precious morphs like this.

Idk, seen people use it, so in their opinion it is worth it. Either way, even if you need to recast it every 2 seconds, your opponents used much more resources than you did, so :shrug:

MindOfTheSwarm

Partially agree, however

Change the morph and make it purely offensive. I agree making it like Flames of Oblivion. Something like this.

Crystallised Slab:

Gain an Icy Aura that builds up 3 Icy Slabs that fire at your target dealing 5000 Frost Damage each after 10 seconds. While the slabs are growing nearby enemies take 500 Frost Damage every second. You gain Major Prophecy for the duration increasing your Spell Critical rating by 2629.

Now you have removed it’s defensive nature and given it a purely offensive role which Frost Damage dealers need as they lack options for damage skills. At the same time the Major Prophecy is a good enough buff that will let it compete with Major Heroism. Making the choice harder for players and more meaningful.

This is similar to Flames but has its unique flavour to separate it as a unique skill.

albumoculus

Sangwyne wrote: »

albumoculus wrote: »

Did any of you folks read my post, okay I suppose I called it weak in the title but in my post I argued that there is no reason for picking it instead of shimmering shield and therefore it should be tweaked to a least fit one role.

Slab is fine, Shimmering is what needs tweaking. It goes Shimmering>Slab>Dragon Fire Scale>Protective Plate, can't understand why you're asking for MORE Warden buffs when it's already just a vastly superior version of one of DK's most iconic abilities. Wings need a sizeable buff first and Shimmering should provide Minor Heroism instead, Major is far too rare and valuable and Warden already has near-exclusive access to many other potent buffs as well.

i agree that shimmering shield is way too good, that's why I called for changes for crystallized slab, it should be tuned into a more offensive ability than a defensive, because right now it has no place in anyone's build, although it's not bad we shouldn't have to nerf shimmering to the ground, nor do we necerlssarily have to buff slab. It should be turned into a more offensive ability, it doesn't need that huge shield either, if it was changed to return more projectiles then magwardens would actually use it.

ESO_Nightingale

Partially agree, however

it's not awful but it's just very situational. if it was reworked into a more ST focused frost damage skill that would be nice, but right now Arctic Blast should be the thing looked at as soon as possible as it is the only viable heal we can actually use that is simultaniously god-tier, when we never needed it to heal in the first place, especially not in the way it stuns, however i don't see magden getting anything more than a minor bug fix that no-one knows about for a skill/morph that no-one uses.

i think AB4.0 and a trellis burst buff of 55% should be first priority.

Langeston

I don't agree at all, don't touch the ability

"Crystallized slab not OP enough relative to the rest of the warden toolkit, so it feels kinda weak."

Man, I wish I had your problems.

ESO_Nightingale

Partially agree, however

Langeston wrote: »

"Crystallized slab not OP enough relative to the rest of the warden toolkit, so it feels kinda weak."

Man, I wish I had your problems.

tell us your problems then. The entire kit of warden isn't overpowered, but Arctic Blast definitely needs to be addressed. there is also too much focus in raw damage passives, as opposed to our actual damage skills. of which we have the least of any class.

albumoculus

Langeston wrote: »

"Crystallized slab not OP enough relative to the rest of the warden toolkit, so it feels kinda weak."

Man, I wish I had your problems.

Dident even read a single line in the the thread, nobody said we should make it stronger, those of use who argued for a change wants it to have an entirely different function that would fit into magdens playstyle.

ESO_Nightingale

Partially agree, however

albumoculus wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

"Crystallized slab not OP enough relative to the rest of the warden toolkit, so it feels kinda weak."

Man, I wish I had your problems.

Dident even read a single line in the the thread, nobody said we should make it stronger, those of use who argued for a change wants it to have an entirely different function that would fit into magdens playstyle.

don't worry, these people see one skill overperforming and think the entire class is busted.

Langeston

I don't agree at all, don't touch the ability

albumoculus wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

"Crystallized slab not OP enough relative to the rest of the warden toolkit, so it feels kinda weak."

Man, I wish I had your problems.

Dident even read a single line in the the thread, nobody said we should make it stronger, those of use who argued for a change wants it to have an entirely different function that would fit into magdens playstyle.

Actually, I read every post. As far as "nobody said we should make it stronger," I disagree. For instance:

Even if we ignore the entire premise "Crystallized slab way too weak," (which is a fairly hyperbolic statement in my opinion, and certainly implies that the skill needs to be buffed,) the initial post says: "...increase the amount of icy bolts it returns or decrease the cooldown of the bolts by 2 seconds in between..." which would certainly make the ability stronger.

A few posts down there's this: "I would happily see the duration extended to an Empowered Ward-like 10 seconds and then to have the cap on returned projectiles lifted a la Dragon Fire Scale". Personally, I think making the skill a 10 second ~30k damage shield that reflects any and all incoming projectiles until broken would make it quite a bit stronger, and in fact that sounds moderately overtuned to me.

I mean this with all due respect: anyone who seriously believes that Crystalized Slab is "way too weak" has been playing warden too long & has lost perspective. As a magblade main who would just love for my class to be somewhat viable in PVP outside of ganking/bombing, even the base unmorphed Crystallized Shield would be amazing to have.

albumoculus

Langeston wrote: »

albumoculus wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

"Crystallized slab not OP enough relative to the rest of the warden toolkit, so it feels kinda weak."

Man, I wish I had your problems.

Dident even read a single line in the the thread, nobody said we should make it stronger, those of use who argued for a change wants it to have an entirely different function that would fit into magdens playstyle.

Actually, I read every post. As far as "nobody said we should make it stronger," I disagree. For instance:

Even if we ignore the entire premise "Crystallized slab way too weak," (which is a fairly hyperbolic statement in my opinion, and certainly implies that the skill needs to be buffed,) the initial post says: "...increase the amount of icy bolts it returns or decrease the cooldown of the bolts by 2 seconds in between..." which would certainly make the ability stronger.

A few posts down there's this: "I would happily see the duration extended to an Empowered Ward-like 10 seconds and then to have the cap on returned projectiles lifted a la Dragon Fire Scale". Personally, I think making the skill a 10 second ~30k damage shield that reflects any and all incoming projectiles until broken would make it quite a bit stronger, and in fact that sounds moderately overtuned to me.

I mean this with all due respect: anyone who seriously believes that Crystalized Slab is "way too weak" has been playing warden too long & has lost perspective. As a magblade main who would just love for my class to be somewhat viable in PVP outside of ganking/bombing, even the base unmorphed Crystallized Shield would be amazing to have.

Point taken, I was the one who didn't read all of the posts, and yes nightblades certianly could have done with some new aspects that would make them more applicable to playstyles not solely utilizing ganking. I also agree that warden is very overturned when comepared to other classes, the only real concern for me is that it's just a waste of an ability, and it should be changed into something differently and actually giving it some variety. But your point is good and I couldn't disagree with the fact that wardens are far more versatile in both PVP and arguably PVE as well, when compared to nightblades.

YandereGirlfriend

Increase the amount of icy bolts that are reflected 5-6, (won't have to recast after 2 seconds).

Langeston wrote: »

albumoculus wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

"Crystallized slab not OP enough relative to the rest of the warden toolkit, so it feels kinda weak."

Man, I wish I had your problems.

Dident even read a single line in the the thread, nobody said we should make it stronger, those of use who argued for a change wants it to have an entirely different function that would fit into magdens playstyle.

Actually, I read every post. As far as "nobody said we should make it stronger," I disagree. For instance:

Even if we ignore the entire premise "Crystallized slab way too weak," (which is a fairly hyperbolic statement in my opinion, and certainly implies that the skill needs to be buffed,) the initial post says: "...increase the amount of icy bolts it returns or decrease the cooldown of the bolts by 2 seconds in between..." which would certainly make the ability stronger.

A few posts down there's this: "I would happily see the duration extended to an Empowered Ward-like 10 seconds and then to have the cap on returned projectiles lifted a la Dragon Fire Scale". Personally, I think making the skill a 10 second ~30k damage shield that reflects any and all incoming projectiles until broken would make it quite a bit stronger, and in fact that sounds moderately overtuned to me.

I mean this with all due respect: anyone who seriously believes that Crystalized Slab is "way too weak" has been playing warden too long & has lost perspective. As a magblade main who would just love for my class to be somewhat viable in PVP outside of ganking/bombing, even the base unmorphed Crystallized Shield would be amazing to have.

The problem is that there is a functionally dead morph in the skill tree (Icy Escape is another such morph). Given how few overall skills there are in ESO, that should be considered unacceptable by all players of good will.

Yes, we all know that magBlade is bottom-tier but that doesn't place an automatic veto on other classes wanting issues within them fixed.

Langeston

I don't agree at all, don't touch the ability

albumoculus wrote: »

Point taken, I was the one who didn't read all of the posts, and yes nightblades certianly could have done with some new aspects that would make them more applicable to playstyles not solely utilizing ganking. I also agree that warden is very overturned when comepared to other classes, the only real concern for me is that it's just a waste of an ability, and it should be changed into something differently and actually giving it some variety. But your point is good and I couldn't disagree with the fact that wardens are far more versatile in both PVP and arguably PVE as well, when compared to nightblades.

I appreciate your willingness to see things from another's perspective. My initial post wasn't meant to be mean-spirited, by the way. It was definitely tongue-in-cheek, but meant entirely jokingly.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

The problem is that there is a functionally dead morph in the skill tree (Icy Escape is another such morph). Given how few overall skills there are in ESO, that should be considered unacceptable by all players of good will.

Yes, we all know that magBlade is bottom-tier but that doesn't place an automatic veto on other classes wanting issues within them fixed.

I understand your point, and in a vacuum it might have merit. But you need to consider the skills other classes have to work with, and if you do that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to buff a skill that's already stronger than what many other classes have access to. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the way ZOS would see things is that it's Shimmering that is the outlier here, and thus the morph that would wind up being changed (and not in a good way.)

I'd also venture to say that there are a decent number of wardens that disagree with your assessment of the skill being "functionally dead." I'm not exactly sure why this is the case, but I have been noticing an uptick in the number of people using that morph in BGs over the last few weeks. (They've mostly been lower/mid MMR BGs on newer toons, so that may have something to do with it, I dunno — but as someone who mains a class whose toolkit almost entirely consists of ranged projectiles, Crystallized Slab makes it pretty much not even worth trying to fight them, so it's something that has definitely been on my radar.) On my warden I use Shimmering, but I"m pretty aggressive & thus the ult regen suits me. However I can see Crystallized appealing to people who aren't necessarily as aggressive, and look at the ability as more of a deterrent.

In any case, I wasn't trying to rain on anyone's parade — just trying to bring a little perspective. That's all.

LeHarrt91

Partially agree, however

I have been using this skill in PvP for years, I absolutely love it (especially when the projectile didn't have a cooldown). But in saying that, as much as i would love this skill to be buffed. it totally shuts down projectile builds (I do love watching people kill themselves). If something were to be added, something would need to be taken away.

Maybe something like adds an additional shield (4, thus adding more damage and defense) but no longer returns magicka when projectile absorbed.

Kartalin

Partially agree, however

I imagine pvp DK mains reading this thread and wanting to choke a dev.

Sandman929

Partially agree, however

Langeston wrote: »

"Crystallized slab not OP enough relative to the rest of the warden toolkit, so it feels kinda weak."

Man, I wish I had your problems.

Yeah, I'm kinda in this boat. I'm not a fan of any useless skills but I think the Templar shield might need a revisit first...and Nightblades have had lived with Consuming Darkness forever...what even is that crap 5 meter waste of space?

JoSePHRiNG

Partially agree, however

Winter's Embrace's last two abilities kinda disappointing and I never see anyone use this "Frozen Gate".

Crystallized Shield is good but it can't rival Sorcerers "Ball of Lightning" (complete absorption) or DragonKnights "Protective Scale" (damage reduction but reliable)

I agree on Crystallized Shield needs buff because it only lasts as 3 projectiles which can immediately diminish.

If it can last at least 3 seconds it maybe useful than what it currently is.

lucky_Sage

I’ll take that over wings if that says somthing