CP 2.0 does not fix the game. It is time for ESO 2.0.

LightningWitch

Note: I've heard rumors this is in the works, but until it's confirmed, I am writing this with the expectation there is no such development of ESO 2.0.


Every two years, I rage quit this game, give everything away, and swear I'll never come back.

Einstein's definition of insanity applies to me, because here I am again, after friends begged me to come back because CP 2.0 makes the game "so much better".

I cannot agree with the assessment. If anything, I find the system worse than the original, and it bothers me this seems to be the future of the game rather than a complete overhaul of ESO.

Many of you are aware of the original game upon release, but some are not. Rather than a CP system, there was a limited Veteran system maxed at rank 16.
When CP replaced Veteran, the same remarks made about CP 2.0 were made back then, and they're all incorrect. This is not an improvement.

It's a delay, featuring more grind, slower advancement, and the same tired, broken mechanics which has plagued the game for 7 years now.

I cannot hate on this game, because at its core, there's a strong foundation to take the ES franchise to levels none of have experienced.
The problem is, we can't get there if everyone just sits [snip]

The saying "Don't fix what's not broken" is applicable, [snip]

I don't dislike the store, I dislike that it's punishing players, either inentionally limiting stock or designing a store so badly, it can't offer us more than what it has displayed.
It boggles my mind how blocking revenue is good for business, but there's the ZOS store to prove it.

I promised my friends I'll stick around for a bit, but I don't see myself staying beyond my month subscription, a ridiculous necessity because so many items have been added to the game but the bank space has not been adjusted accordingly [snip].

This game never seems to move forward, stalled in time 7 years ago, while other MMOs (F2P to boot!) gain popularity, and most importantly, revenue. Fortnite isn't 7 years old, but its revenue certainly cannot be ignored. Genshin Impact, a new entry to the genre, has already surpassed $1B within its first year.

I'm disappointed many are praising another attempt to stall a more stable and better game.

CP 2.0 isn't a better system, and it's time many of you recognize the truth.

So, rather than praise this new system, how about focusing your attention and requesting ZOS replace its horribly broken, unbalanced, and don't get me started on its PvP servers game with a new version more suited for 2021 instead of 1921.

[snip]

Ask. Give ZOS your reasons why you believe an ESO 2.0 is needed, and maybe they'll stop introducing stalling mechanics and get busy with it.

But at the very least, please do not praise CP 2.0. It's not a better system, just another coat of paint on a broken, seven year old leveling system.

Thanks for reading, and I hope I didn't seem to come off as unappreciative.

[snip]

[edited for baiting/bashing]

dcam86b14_ESO

Not to be that person but if ESO wasn't profitable it would be shut down. Everyone has their definition of "dead" or "popular" when it comes to MMO's.

I would take your own advice and just find something that checks all your boxes.

LightningWitch

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

Not to be that person but if ESO wasn't profitable it would be shut down. Everyone has their definition of "dead" or "popular" when it comes to MMO's.

I don't see you as "that person", so thanks for your feedback.

You're correct, to a point, but therein lies the problem. If the game is profitable, then there's no reason to fix it.

This forum is filled with players who disagree.

I would take your own advice and just find something that checks all your boxes.

Not to be rude, but telling other people to find another game isn't a proper solution. It exemplifies what's wrong with gaming today.

If I cannot provide cosntructive criticism because some players enjoy the game as it is, then we're at a disagreement, not a situation of telling others to find another game.

That's obvious.

I don't want another game. I want a better ESO.

You should want a better ESO too, and I'd be confused why you wouldn't.

xaraan

I have no doubt whatever MMO they are working on next, whether it's ESO 2 or something different - they are taking whatever lessons they've learned here and will apply it to the next game. A lot of the testing they do in PvP right now even if it's only helping a little in the game, is probably also teaching them better ways to build the next system.

BUT, I don't think we should pretend a 2.0 is a magic bullet.

Starting a fresh game will change population. Not just for good, but also some will leave when they lose everything they have built in ESO just to start a new version at ground zero. It's an opportunity for them to move on. And I doubt zos would tank their future economy/market by letting things carry over into new game.

I can tell you that personally, I for one am not confident in their next game. I feel like they've learned as many bad lessons as good ones, and things have felt grindier in some aspects with more cash shop tie in. So for every bit of lag that might get fixed in a new system, I also think there would be things/changes I don't care for added in.

The real issue is that if they are working on a new game, it will come out when it's ready and ESO will continue chugging on while it makes money. Do you really want them to rush and put it out early? With everything we've seen about games not ready for release coming out? Of course not. And it takes years to develop these games. So no matter whether you want the new game now or what this one to live forever to go away, it will happen when it happens.

josiahva

The problem here is what is "better"?

ZOS obviously has their own vision as to what the game needs to be, and they are going to push that vision just as they have since I started playing.

Ask 10 different players though and they will give you 10 different answers. As an example: I hate the new CP system...not because of the slow grind, I have no problem with that, but because with the "slotting" system they have pigeonholed players into particular builds more than ever before. Whatever their reasons for doing it, its an obvious REDUCTION in the ability to "play as you want". Versatility took a huge hit this patch.

As you mentioned though, other people love the system, but I am willing to bet every single one of the people who love the system likes to build toons that are only viable for one thing, whatever that thing is.

So depending on perspective the game either got better or worse but I would make the argument that over at least the last 4 years the game has gotten progressively worse....but that is only from my perspective and I enjoy playing versatile characters, its why I started playing ESO to begin with. Someone coming from WOW may well think the game has gotten progressively better though as people are pigeonholed into roles they are more comfortable with.

So everyone has their own opinion on it, but as the game moves away from what it originally was, it becomes less and less appealing to me, even if it becomes more appealing to others.

NettleCarrier

Since you're telling us what to think and say in your original post I guess I'm not allowed to chime in at all then, however I'm going to do it anyway.

I bought the game at launch, played for a month or two and quit because VR leveling wasn't my thing. I came back in April 2019 and started a new character and this became my main for all intents and purposes. I'm also juggling 4 other games as well as a full time job (no kids though) and still managed to hit 1600 after those two years. I DO see this CP system as an improvement. Does it need work? Certainly... but I have more perks than I did with the 1.0 system so why wouldn't I like it?

An ESO 2 would certainly mean 2 years worth of work, guild hall construction, etc. would be gone down the drain. If I wasn't happy with ESO 1 I'd find another MMO to play, not wait around for more of what I don't like - however I DO like this.

miteba

Years ago many many people cried, in this forum and ingame, just because CP went from VR12 to VR14 (or whatever), and they would need to grind all over again and lose their legendary items...
Now imagine going to an ESO 2.0 game... It would be insane

Viewsfrom6ix

I like CP 2.0.

colossalvoids

If it's not poe 2 kind of deal where you still have everything you've worked/payed for I'll pass on eso 2.0.

By the way this post would look less hostile and bit more grounded without parts where you're suggesting people to not mention that cp rework was an improvement because it's not in your opinion, same as the last part about what others should feel towards product we have currently.

AlnilamE

LightningWitch wrote: »

Many of you are aware of the original game upon release, but some are not. Rather than a CP system, there was a limited Veteran system maxed at rank 16.

Veteran ranks maxed at 10 at launch. That moved to 12 when Craglorn came out, and 14 when Upper Craglorn came out.

When IC was launched it moved to vet 16. I think at this point, it was already based on regular XP rather then Vet Points, and a flat amount per level rather than a scale.

Personally, I don't mind leveling characters individually, but for the people that consider a character as just a skill loadout, and want to be trial ready asap, leveling multiple characters to vet 16 was a huge grind.

Massacre_Wurm

Genshin Impact is cartoonish anime-ish [snip]. I dont want ESO "moving forward" in that direction.

[edited for bashing]

Oreyn_Bearclaw

TLDR. CP 2.0 is not perfect but it’s an improvement. As was the CP 1.0 compared to VR ranks.

RedMuse

LightningWitch wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

Not to be that person but if ESO wasn't profitable it would be shut down. Everyone has their definition of "dead" or "popular" when it comes to MMO's.

I don't see you as "that person", so thanks for your feedback.

You're correct, to a point, but therein lies the problem. If the game is profitable, then there's no reason to fix it.

This forum is filled with players who disagree.

This is only partially true. It is also filled with people who disagrees with your point. Plenty of players here are overall happy with the game, though of course it is socially unacceptable to say that on this forum and I know I'm committing a major faux pas in doing so.

Please note for those with difficulties in reading comprehension is said overall happy. It doesn't mean we love every single decision made, eg I could write you an essay or two about my dissatisfaction with the green CP tree. But it means we do not want to majorly overhaul the game or change how it works.

LightningWitch wrote: »

I would take your own advice and just find something that checks all your boxes.

Not to be rude, but telling other people to find another game isn't a proper solution. It exemplifies what's wrong with gaming today.

If I cannot provide cosntructive criticism because some players enjoy the game as it is, then we're at a disagreement, not a situation of telling others to find another game.

That's obvious.

I don't want another game. I want a better ESO.

You should want a better ESO too, and I'd be confused why you wouldn't.

Pardon me but no, you don't. You want an ESO that caters more to your specific tastes, caring not a whit about anyone else's unless they agree with you. And "find a game that caters to your tastes" is in fact an entirely legitimate response to that.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

AlnilamE wrote: »

LightningWitch wrote: »

Many of you are aware of the original game upon release, but some are not. Rather than a CP system, there was a limited Veteran system maxed at rank 16.

Veteran ranks maxed at 10 at launch. That moved to 12 when Craglorn came out, and 14 when Upper Craglorn came out.

When IC was launched it moved to vet 16. I think at this point, it was already based on regular XP rather then Vet Points, and a flat amount per level rather than a scale.

Personally, I don't mind leveling characters individually, but for the people that consider a character as just a skill loadout, and want to be trial ready asap, leveling multiple characters to vet 16 was a huge grind.

If you played Alts, that was the grindiest time at any point of the game. I am 1800 cp and spent more time grinding 4 toons to VR 16 than I ever did getting to 1800.

VaranisArano

ESO has moved forward. It just sounds like it moved forward in a direction you don't like.

- We used to have Vet ranks, and earlier zones became obsolete once we outleveled them.
- We used to all start as "the Vestige" in Coldharbor and then got railroaded through our alliance zones.
- Alliance used to determine who you could group with.
- Questing with friends used to mean that we had to be the same Alliance and around the same level. Woe betide my SO and I when we realized that our best friends had made AD mains and thus couldn't quest with our Pact mains.

One Tamriel was a big step forward. It fixed a lot of stuff and broke others.

- No more quest railroading...and also no more coherent narrative. (My primary gripe)
- No more outleveled zones become obsolete, no more overleveling from DLC content...and no more Vertical Progression once you maxed your Champion Points. (My SO's primary gripe)
- No more restrictions on grouping with players of other alliances or widely different levels...and no more "challenging" zones since overland is all battleleveled to CP 160.


CP 2.0 is no different. It fixes some stuff, like ZOS' apparently wretched coding for CP checks. It pushed off some other criticisms, like the lack of vertical progression for players at CP 810. It breaks other stuff, like the Green Tree micromanagement.

It's a step forward for the game. It just may not be entirely in the direction you want. It's not entirely in a direction I want - I'm pretty bitter that the finish line moved so far away, and don't get me started on the Crafting CP tree.


I don't think we're getting an ESO 2.0. I think we've settled into a fairly rote release schedule for new content and features, periodic attempts to fix the spaghetti code, and lots of Horizontal Progression/cycles of nerfs and buffs to keep the game from becoming stagnant.

To be honest, that's a step forward too. Maybe not entirely in the direction I like, but it's a much more stable path than what ZOS was following in the early years of ESO. CP 2.0 wasn't a full overhaul the way One Tamriel was, and that's probably healthier overall.

Tandor

LightningWitch wrote: »

<snip> CP 2.0 isn't a better system, and it's time many of you recognize the truth. <snip>

The truth is that many people consider CP2.0 to be a better system (albeit with a bit of tweaking needed), and that many people like the game. The truth is also that very clearly you do not, hence your own admission of constant rage-quitting. Everyone else seems to have recognised the truth, perhaps it's time you did too.

Jeffrey530

I started playing during vet ranks. I am indifferent to cp2.0 and cp1.0 but both are better than VR imo. We all have different opinions and stop saying what you think is the truth.

On the crown store part, you must hate pretty much every retail shop then, from limited edition seasonal sportswear to limited edition/ seasonal chocolate/ flavoured snacks/ drinks.

Radiance

I said the same. This game is being carried by nostalgia of those who played ES games in the past along with the Quarterly Free 2 Play events that trap new cash cows.

I don't want to find a new game after putting in so much effort. [snip]

[edited for inappropriate content]

Sevalaricgirl

I'm sorry but you can't compare ESO to Fortnite lol. One has a great story, or stories and one has a bunch of 13 yr old with their parents credit cards. I know someone who lets his 4 yr old play Fortnite. I honestly don't understand why people would complain then stay in the game. I did not go on the SWTOR forum and complain about the game. I just left. It's quite easy. And before anyone asks, I have played that game since 2011 and I have played ESO since beta.

Araneae6537

The VR or CP system is but one aspect of the game and I imagine it quite a challenge to find a balance between those who want to be able to continually improve their characters and those who don’t want to feel on an endless treadmill (I am definitely in the latter group). I liked CP 1.0 well enough and CP 2.0 is, IMHO, better in some ways and worse in others. While there are changes that would increase the better in my opinion, it doesn't make or break the game.

Although I do strive to improve in different roles and game modes and will sometimes focus on content to get certain gear, I am not a player motivated to reach max everything. So the new CP cap doesn't stress me.

What keeps me playing are activities I enjoy, both the stories and quests and activities I do with others, both friends and strangers. And while doing better in PvP and better masterly of vet DLC mechanics are among my goals, the ones I most strive for tend to involve fashion and / or furnishings. I love to take creative part in the world of ESO! That would make ESO 2.0 a “please no” for me. There is sooo much here in ESO, it makes no sense to me to suggest boxing it up and starting over. I hope the devs will continue to add to this amazing world and continue to improve all aspects of gameplay.

Everest_Lionheart

CP 2.0, choices matter. Finally some consequence to where you assign points. Meaningless for overland content but essential for vet and PvP content. Pretty decent compromise. Just the cap is way too high!

ThorianB

The 1T system definitely has some drawbacks. But when you can log in and play with anyone anywhere, you kind of forget what they are...for a little bit.

I never cared for the CP system. I thought it was unimaginative and cheesy. It bothers me that everyone can be everything at all points in time in ESO. That every class, guild, and weapon skill line kind of feel like the other ones. The CP system just made this more bland.

I was excited when they said they were going to replace the CP system. Would we finally get something with meaningful choices? Something that made me feel like the XP i was earning was making me stronger, better, faster??? That is what the sales pitch promised. But in reality CP 2.0 gives less choices than CP 1.0. I don't really have that many choices now because there are several "required" slottables which leaves no room for choices.

It would be like giving me a choice between the ability to use food and the ability to use potions.I use to be able to use both. But now we gave you meaningful choices and you can only use food or potions. Make your meaningful choice!

Long story short, I don't think CP 2.0 is better. I think its to limiting. I hate the whole CP concept and they just replaced one bad idea with another. Holding out hope for companions though. I hope they aren't a bomb.

Sylvermynx

I really like CP 2.0 - I understand the potentialities (as I never did with CP 1.0) and its easier by far for me to make meaningful choices for my characters.

Sure, there are things I might think need changing. But I'm not having to look online to figure out where to put points with this iteration. And really, the things I might think should be changed don't have much effect on where I put points right now.

Entering caveat: keep in mind I have zero use for or interest in pvp/group content/"endgame". YMMV.

phaneub17_ESO

I like the new CP system as I don't have to constantly go up and down different values hitting that whole number so I'm not wasting points in the middle of empty partial percentages. The new system I just go in every 30 points to allocate without second guessing what works and what doesn't, I can let it build and hit the next mark all in one go.

Xuhora

i really really have to chime in and say something

you are complaining about a "stall game" and "more grind" and then saying well we have to look at genshin impact is beyond my comprehension for real.... let me explain

to begin with: the success of genshin impact in the western world and more important its succes in the PC gaming world did open the door for the downfall of gaming as a service as we know it, it is abismal. there are so many systems in this game that come from mobile gaming and they are such blatantly money grabbing mechanic that every gamer that loves PC gaming should despise this game from the core of his/her heart.

you are complaining about the grind and a slower progression, while genshin impact puts your progression literally behind a paywall on a daily basis! you will eventually run out of resin, which means you cannot do any activities that progress you in this game. sure you can fill up this resin but that is behind a paywayll where you have to buy the resin pack for what ever dollar it is (and compared to the ESO subscription its waaaay higher)

i believe i dont have to clarify why fortnite isnt a better contenter in terms of player expierence?

please please please, dont prais such games and make a call that ESO should learn from these.

Iccotak

Define ESO 2.0

What would it even look like?

Hallothiel

@RedMuse

I also am quite happy with this game & rather enjoy playing it.😉

oldbobdude

I admit I'm a noob so not a lot of experience but I love the game. I've played every day since I've had it. Sure, there are some things I wish were different (like every other game I've played), but nothing that affects my desire to play. Solo, group dungeons are fun and I'm in a guild of fun, helpful people.

magnusthorek

(Woody Woodpecker's "Witch Crafty" Episode — but I believe everyone understood it)

PrimusTiberius

I can't say 2.0 is better, I can say its different and it does address some of the power creep issues. My big issues with 2.0 comes to the Crafting tree, many of those options should have been (stayed) active passives once your character achieved them. Only having 4 active crafting passives in the Champion Bar restricts your character and play style and having more than 4 wouldn't have added to power creep. I think ZOS did this only to match the Warfare and Fitness Champion Bar by having only 4 slots in each of those categories.

Now we have this new "horizontal" progression over vertical progression which really prevents you from using all of your champion points at once, you chose how your character build will look/perform based off of your game style. So in effect, all our characters got a big nerf with 2.0

They said this system will be more flexible when a change is needed, lets hope they see the Crafting tree needs some additional changes in regards to active passives.

Lord_Eomer

I have been telling myself to lets start ESO, with CP 2.0 i even bought 3 month of subscription but unable to continue after a week of game play.

I remember playing ESO for long times have (7,000+ hours in steam) but something has been missing and made me lost interest in this beautiful game.

I was expecting new chapter will add more PVP contents but its always about lore, story and a trail = I am done with ESO