Heal + Block Stacking Too Strong in Cryodiil

Sorbin

Three [snip] can't kill a decent player, game's busted folks.

[Edited to remove Profanity]

DrSlaughtr

Please keep replies friendly so the discussion doesn't get locked.

Mr_Gallows

Number one problem in this game is regen and healing being completely over the top. Get healing and regens under control and the damage and everything else can be balanced.

xDeusEJRx

TheEndBringer wrote: »

madmidwestmark wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Ever since CP 2.0 group players have figured out how to save the tank meta while still being able to output high damage.

For example, templars. As someone who used to main a magplar it's nice to see them and their stam brothers in arms doing so well.

But the game working as intended shouldn't create importal characters.

Here's an example that happened last night.

Three stamblades hit a magplar with 3 soul assaults. We all run the same build. Buffed up our soul assaults do over 100k damage in the tooltip.

The magplar went to their sword and board, blocked, and healed through all of it, then hit us with a 15k radial sweep.

This is just one example out of countless over the last few weeks. Wardens, sorcs and necros are also easily out healing massive damage dumps.

I'm not a nerf advocate. But things do need to be balanced before they even think about bringing back procs. If players can out heal that now, imagine if they were wearing crimson or thews.

On a related note I think the duration of some poisons should be increased, such as resource drain. Many players have figured out how to never really run out of resources which adds to the above issue.

[Quoted post was removed]

[snip]

The whole point was to talk about how easy it is to turn certain classes into nigh immortals unless significantly out numbered which is not a balanced system. If you disagree that there's an issue then say that. [snip] There are plenty of people in this thread confirming what I'm talking about.

Sounds like they blocked in light armor with s&b, you and the homies weren't running mirage/blur/phantasmal, didn't use a shadow ability for the armor and then got hit with a crit while having very low crit resist. If you just had 1 of you use gap close (ambush), incap, fear while the others were using soul assault, you'd have burned him down fast. NB and sorc are finesse classes, DK, warden and templar are brawler classes. They are easier to play head to head in open combat typically. The merciless resolve and other morph can hit hard, plus incap for the extra damage bonus. Try that with a bow/dw setup and you'll probably kill more people. Nb has a much higher skill ceiling and is much more powerful than templar/warden/dk when in the right hands. Sorc's could be more of an issue because shields get so big. By the time you get mitigation and healing high in a temp/dk/warden, you are losing damage. There is a trade off there since you have to slot many of the healing cp tree healing buffs.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I don't disagree that had we been smarter in the moment the outcome of that example might have been different. But my point for making the thread wasnt contingent on that one situation. I only mentioned that one because it had just happened before I made the post.

Multiple classes are able to heal through significant amounts of damage due to their class heals and mitigation that are already strong being buffed to the moon.

I know warden on pts is seeing a heal reduction but templar, necro, and sorc could use the same.

I've seen plenty of nightblades and DKs get big heals through cp but those classes suffer more damage loss by going into the left side of the warfare tree.

These classes are able to heal significantly because their class offers them burst heals. It's not the same with nightblade as they don't really have a burst heal in their class(unless you consider funnel health a burst, but you need a target for it). And DK's have significant burst heals even without using health CP buffs via their coagulating blood. The stamina version is really bad but personally I wouldn't rely on that for a heal, only for buffs.
I think it's a misunderstanding to think you need the healing buffs from warfare to get good heals, increasing your spell damage increases your healing as well as your damaging abilities.

I play a lot of magic dragonknight and my coagulating blood can hit high numbers with a pure spell damage build. I've been able to hit an 11k coag heal from low health without even a critical.

BlakMarket

So three stam players using magic damage with no spell pen expect it to shred someone blocking? How long have you been pvping? I guess not long, as experienced players know that ulti is easily blocked or LOS, thats why no one uses that trash ulti.

DrSlaughtr

BlakMarket wrote: »

So three stam players using magic damage with no spell pen expect it to shred someone blocking? How long have you been pvping? I guess not long, as experienced players know that ulti is easily blocked or LOS, thats why no one uses that trash ulti.

No need to troll. If you disagree that heals and blocking are over performing then just say that rather than insulting people, please.

My spell pen is 10k. But again this isn't about one example I provided. I don't know how many times I have to say that. I regret ever stating that example.

BlakMarket

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

So three stam players using magic damage with no spell pen expect it to shred someone blocking? How long have you been pvping? I guess not long, as experienced players know that ulti is easily blocked or LOS, thats why no one uses that trash ulti.

No need to troll. If you disagree that heals and blocking are over performing then just say that rather than insulting people, please.

My spell pen is 10k. But again this isn't about one example I provided. I don't know how many times I have to say that. I regret ever stating that example.

Im not even trying to insult, its a genuine question. How long have you been PVPing? And for a stam toon how do you have 10k spell pen?

KhajiitLivesMatter

BlakMarket wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

So three stam players using magic damage with no spell pen expect it to shred someone blocking? How long have you been pvping? I guess not long, as experienced players know that ulti is easily blocked or LOS, thats why no one uses that trash ulti.

No need to troll. If you disagree that heals and blocking are over performing then just say that rather than insulting people, please.

My spell pen is 10k. But again this isn't about one example I provided. I don't know how many times I have to say that. I regret ever stating that example.

Im not even trying to insult, its a genuine question. How long have you been PVPing? And for a stam toon how do you have 10k spell pen?

better question why should u ever play a stam blade with mag skills rather than a mag blade xd?

DrSlaughtr

We occasionally run soul assault because it's good for eliminating fellow NBs. We used it against the templar on the night we were testing it against other builds.

Will it help if I go back and edit it to say toxic barrage? Because it's the same exact result. Oh is that one not good enough? Change it to incap. Oh wait, it's the same result. Same with dawny. It doesn't matter what the ulti is that we have access to. Certain classes are currently able to heal and block through multiple ultis with little effects on their resources.

My other two characters are my magplar and stamden, both of which are ridiculous easy mode. I can survive more damage than should be possible.

I played on pc at launch. Took a break. Started playing on XB when it arrived there. I've run in Cyrodiil since. Is my resume good enough?

I'm not replying to any more trolls.

ResidentContrarian

Disagree.

Healing is nothing without damage reduction.

That means without block, healing is nothing.

That means without roll, healing is nothing.

That means without purge, healing is nothing.

That means without speed, healing is nothing.

It's only when you combine speed, purge, roll, block, and are able to sustain these things with healing that healing becomes a problem.

Now hp recovery is a different can of worms, but essentially is also healing and the same applies.

Guess what specs actually are capable of combining healing, block, roll, purge, speed, hp recovery and sustaining it best...?

DrSlaughtr

You're right. Hence why the subject is not just about healing.

TBois

Personally I think there should be counter play to three nightblades popping soul assault on one person out of stealth. If I remember correctly Soul assault became blockable when it became unpurgeable and uninteruptable for the purpose of counterplay. Zos was unhappy with an ult's power being totally diminished with purge or a bash. So they decided the ult's counterplay would be block instead so that when it is countered you don't lose all your damage.

You used to be able to run block builds out of resources, but sustain is so high across the board now that this counter to block builds is no longer viable. Because of that I think they should look at block damage reduction within cyrodiil through battle spirit.

Mr_Gallows

Regens are out of control and leads to many issues.

For stamina/magica it means constant healing is to easy. For health it just ruins the game completely.

Zos are cutting health regen in half which is a step in the right direction.

Really though the regens should have a hard cap and a soft cap with diminishing returns after that. 2k hard cap and 1k soft cap with diminishing returns.

When that if fixed, armor, damage, crit, heals etc can be balanced well.

DrSlaughtr

TBois wrote: »

Personally I think there should be counter play to three nightblades popping soul assault on one person out of stealth. If I remember correctly Soul assault became blockable when it became unpurgeable and uninteruptable for the purpose of counterplay. Zos was unhappy with an ult's power being totally diminished with purge or a bash. So they decided the ult's counterplay would be block instead so that when it is countered you don't lose all your damage.

You used to be able to run block builds out of resources, but sustain is so high across the board now that this counter to block builds is no longer viable. Because of that I think they should look at block damage reduction within cyrodiil through battle spirit.

Never said there shouldn't be counter play but it was just one example. Magplars have went out of style on XB NA in BR as DC has taken to running all stamwardens. It's basically a gankers worst nightmare lol. Because they can take anything in stride. 12 mo fos walkin around with 30k+ health, 30k+ resistances, free purge, spamming the biggest *** skill in the game (sub assault), and spinning to win everyone to death.

But hey, they usually don't even have to bother blocking (I certainly don't on my stamden).