Zenimax could learn from other MMO's

Matchimus

Dear OP, You want this game to do things like another MMO that I played for a few hours & didn't like? No thank you.

hafgood

I never understand these threads. I want such and such from that game and this from that one and I want it grafted onto ESO.

Thats great.

Now learn to code and go and write that game. Get your ideal game written and published and make ot available for others to play.

Bit leave ESO alone. I'm not saying ESO is perfect but I enjoy it. I don't want the so called best bits from other games grafted on because one thing this thread shows is that different people have different opinions of those other games.

One person says on game x they did this and it was brilliant only for someone else to say that that feature was awful.

We all have different memories of different games, we have different things we liked in other games and yes if someone wrote that game we would play it. Problem is that perfect game is different for each of us, once you realise that you realise that no matter what the devs do therr will always be people who are not happy.

Let's play the game and enjoy it for what it is rather than incessantly demand changes to it to make it more like other games. Celebrate the game we have, let ESO be ESO.

Sylvermynx

hafgood wrote: »

I never understand these threads. I want such and such from that game and this from that one and I want it grafted onto ESO.

Thats great.

Now learn to code and go and write that game. Get your ideal game written and published and make ot available for others to play.

Bit leave ESO alone. I'm not saying ESO is perfect but I enjoy it. I don't want the so called best bits from other games grafted on because one thing this thread shows is that different people have different opinions of those other games.

One person says on game x they did this and it was brilliant only for someone else to say that that feature was awful.

We all have different memories of different games, we have different things we liked in other games and yes if someone wrote that game we would play it. Problem is that perfect game is different for each of us, once you realise that you realise that no matter what the devs do therr will always be people who are not happy.

Let's play the game and enjoy it for what it is rather than incessantly demand changes to it to make it more like other games. Celebrate the game we have, let ESO be ESO.

Perfect post. AWESOME.

Sephyr

Honestly, while I'd agree that ZoS could learn from other MMOs -- I don't think they'd be able to with the current community.

Aertew

RedMuse wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Do we really need to have a 10 slot active bar? Those other games that have all abilities on the bar, end up with most of them doing the same thing, just on cool downs.

I meant removing bar swapping and just including the abilities together. The main reason for bar swapping was for console. On PC there is no need for it and is just a hinderance to combat.

That would remove one weapon and make playing healer and tank even more annoying in general gameplay than they already are. Making fewer people want to play tank and healer is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a while. It would also remove one of the more unique features of ESO and its combat system so again, no.

As someone said a bit earlier. You could still have 2 weapons and switch between them. You just wouldnt need to switch weapons soley for your class abilities. For example if km a stamdk with a bow and dual wield. I could have a ability from the bow skilline and a ability from the dual wield skill line on it. But I can only use the bow skill when im switched to my bow and I can only use the dual wield skill when im dual wielding. This would save the trouble of switching for 1 or 2 abilities and switching back.

Aertew

Veita wrote: »

Acutally - imo - there is not a single thing ESO should take from WoW. WoW has no innovation, nothing to offer and is plainly boring compared to ESO.
The only thing ESO really really really lacks is a good pvp server structure, but I know no other mmorpg which does that, on the other hand that doesn't mean that ESO shouldn't provide this.

2 other people said WoW had better PvP tthan ESO and I gave an example of an ability that could be taken from WoW onto the necromancer class.

Aertew

Snowstrider wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

I honestly do not understand people's desire for games to be mindless copy pastes of each other, rather than each tyring to be unique and bring spmething different to the table. Like if you love WoW or GW2 so much go play them. I personally enjoy ESO alot more than the other games and their way of doing things, which is why I am here and not there. If ESO became a clone of them I'd likely just stop playing.

This. So much this.

Its not about making games be a carbon copy of eachother but more like looking at what some games does better which this game could learn from and improve on.
Eso does some things better and other mmos does some things better so why is it so bad to take inspiration from eachother?

I feel like mabye I worded my opinion wrong so hopefully this clears up misconception of what I'm trying to convey.

Sephyr

Aertew wrote: »

Snowstrider wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

I honestly do not understand people's desire for games to be mindless copy pastes of each other, rather than each tyring to be unique and bring spmething different to the table. Like if you love WoW or GW2 so much go play them. I personally enjoy ESO alot more than the other games and their way of doing things, which is why I am here and not there. If ESO became a clone of them I'd likely just stop playing.

This. So much this.

Its not about making games be a carbon copy of eachother but more like looking at what some games does better which this game could learn from and improve on.
Eso does some things better and other mmos does some things better so why is it so bad to take inspiration from eachother?

I feel like mabye I worded my opinion wrong so hopefully this clears up misconception of what I'm trying to convey.

I seen it this way from the original post. I think the problem here is that people feel threatened that it would somehow diminish a game that's already been on the decline. Instead of gauging and polling consumers, ZoS is doing what Blizzard has been doing for years now -- using analytics as a means to gauge fun when they don't necessarily mean the same thing. Just because people would love the features doesn't mean it would be a carbon copy either.

Take character slots for example. If ZoS had gone the FF14 route and let everyone be every class (you just had to be locked into that class before entering dungeons/raids/PvP/etc)? The necessity for character slots would have went down and database performance could've been vastly different than what it was today. It's just the fact that ZoS monetizes on character slots rather than using it for a subscription benefit (FF14 you can have 5 characters per world on a max sub). It would hit them negatively in the wallet through slots and potentially class changes if those ever become a thing, however I know a lot of issues would be solved. Tis a shame.

Nyladreas

Mojmir wrote: »

WoW is probably the worst game ive ever seen, and im talking when it was new.

Why WoW specifically? I find it a 1000 times better than most MMOs on the market. Except ESO perhaps.

Although I did hate vanilla and don't understand AT ALL why people wanted vanilla back so bad. For me it was BC and WoTLK. So I agree with the part where you said "when it was new".

Epilog

I like limited skill bars and direct combat a lot more than anything of those older systems. And ESO does a lot of things really good. For example breakfree is a great design (although sometimes clunky), recharging your resources with risky heavy attacks is great design that does prevent some mistakes of other games, etc. (On resource based skill design vs cooldown based design it is a tie. Could both be good.)

So looking at something like WoW or SWtoR, I don not think they should get anything from those combat or skill systems. Those are just too old. Only things I remember as very nice was the overland progression/difficulty/pvp of Classic WoW and the stories/multiplayer conversation system of SWtoR.

They could maybe learn a thing or two from Wild Star, GW2 and TSW(the old one). Beeing: ability to cast skills all the time not needing targets, the combo system of GW2 and the better/tighter designed WvW/PvP Maps, the free skill system of TSW in combination with their dungeon and encounter design that prevented cookie cutter builds. All those things could improve ESO without destroying its own unique designs.

Besides that they could maybe in general be some bolder in their skill design, include some more context sensitive or position based stuff.

ESO has a really good systemic crafted game design, but it sometime feels very artificial and repetitive which can happen with mathematically balanced systems.

jircris11

[

Mojmir wrote: »

WoW is probably the worst game ive ever seen, and im talking when it was new.

You've lead a very fortunate life!

There are huge numbers of actually terrible games out there, and for you to have avoided them all demonstrates either great luck or great skill. [/quote]

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS had no problem copying Esper skill from Wildstar and giving it to Sorcerer Bound Armament, I was really surprised they had taken* that skill design visuals*.

Fast forward 5:10
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E40e3TejBk0

Not a fan of taking a person's visual design and using w/o giving credit, but every game incorporates great system designs from other games.

Bound armament has been in tes games longer then W* gas been a shower thought though.

Wolfpaw

jircris11 wrote: »

[

Mojmir wrote: »

WoW is probably the worst game ive ever seen, and im talking when it was new.

You've lead a very fortunate life!

There are huge numbers of actually terrible games out there, and for you to have avoided them all demonstrates either great luck or great skill.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS had no problem copying Esper skill from Wildstar and giving it to Sorcerer Bound Armament, I was really surprised they had taken* that skill design visuals*.

Fast forward 5:10
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E40e3TejBk0

Not a fan of taking a person's visual design and using w/o giving credit, but every game incorporates great system designs from other games.

Bound armament has been in tes games longer then W* gas been a shower thought though. [/quote]

Yup, the name bound arnament has been in tes games, the name, not eso skill. BA was reworked for ESO, & again in p5.2.5 Dragonhold (W* Esper patch).

jircris11

Wolfpaw wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

[

Mojmir wrote: »

WoW is probably the worst game ive ever seen, and im talking when it was new.

You've lead a very fortunate life!

There are huge numbers of actually terrible games out there, and for you to have avoided them all demonstrates either great luck or great skill.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS had no problem copying Esper skill from Wildstar and giving it to Sorcerer Bound Armament, I was really surprised they had taken* that skill design visuals*.

Fast forward 5:10
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E40e3TejBk0

Not a fan of taking a person's visual design and using w/o giving credit, but every game incorporates great system designs from other games.

Bound armament has been in tes games longer then W* gas been a shower thought though.

Yup, the name bound arnament has been in tes games, the name, not eso skill. BA was reworked for ESO, & again in p5.2.5 Dragonhold (W* Esper patch).

[/quote]

I'll need to re-watch esper skills, though I will admit I miss W*

Wolfpaw

jircris11 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

[

Mojmir wrote: »

WoW is probably the worst game ive ever seen, and im talking when it was new.

You've lead a very fortunate life!

There are huge numbers of actually terrible games out there, and for you to have avoided them all demonstrates either great luck or great skill.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS had no problem copying Esper skill from Wildstar and giving it to Sorcerer Bound Armament, I was really surprised they had taken* that skill design visuals*.

Fast forward 5:10
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E40e3TejBk0

Not a fan of taking a person's visual design and using w/o giving credit, but every game incorporates great system designs from other games.

Bound armament has been in tes games longer then W* gas been a shower thought though.

Yup, the name bound arnament has been in tes games, the name, not eso skill. BA was reworked for ESO, & again in p5.2.5 Dragonhold (W* Esper patch).

I'll need to re-watch esper skills, though I will admit I miss W*[/quote]

I'm not much of a housing fan, but W* did that one system better than any other mmorpg, imo.

Thinking about it more, a ZOS dev may have made this visual change to BA in tribute to Wildstar also, maybe just a fan that missed that universe.

I believe it's a good thing when great games add systems, skills, etc...from other great games.

I still get nostalgic of Altered Beast when I play a shapeshifter 😁

Xargas13

Big no to binding the story behind dungeon or trial bosses, I do PvE only for the story, maybe occasional dungeon for rewards or to do something new, then again on normal, doing vet only when I need something. I mainly into PvP, and while I think PvP could use improvement and some balance, I find it addicting, which means they did something right. And big part of why I like eso is that I can do whole story without engaging in dungeons, for which I need to search a group, spec right and do my research for PvE, which I really don't wanna do. Imagine hiding the story behind PvP...

I would love more abilities to use, but the problem is this game is also on the console, it would mean double the effort for them to balance things, since it would be almost like two different games.

It would be nice to see more mounts though, mounts that are obtainable through PvE or PvP, not just crown store.

Permanent pets is a terrible idea, every sorc would be running with two pets all the time in PvP, as they like to use pets for cover while they dish out damage. And permanent pet on necro would be just annoying, we get bounty for summoning those things, imagine how many times we will be getting a bounty just by forgetting to unsummon our pet, and I don't want it to not to be a criminal act as I enjoy that aspect.

All in all, I don't really like the ideas you posted. Sorry.

FlopsyPrince

I really liked the Hunter class on WoW.

I wish I could tame things in ESO, but I don't see that happening.

BlueRaven

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I really liked the Hunter class on WoW.

I wish I could tame things in ESO, but I don't see that happening.

The warden could fill that role if they just added more skin options for the bear.

Sylvermynx

BlueRaven wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I really liked the Hunter class on WoW.

I wish I could tame things in ESO, but I don't see that happening.

The warden could fill that role if they just added more skin options for the bear.

I would like to have cat skins, maybe wolf too. I've never really been terribly interested in bears - due to an early camping trip with my parents - I was 5, they rented a cabin in Sequoia for a vacation, the bears were around all night every night and being a very imaginative child, I could see them in my mind's eye coming through the door or windows and killing us all. I had nightmares for years after.

renne

Aertew wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Do we really need to have a 10 slot active bar? Those other games that have all abilities on the bar, end up with most of them doing the same thing, just on cool downs.

I meant removing bar swapping and just including the abilities together. The main reason for bar swapping was for console. On PC there is no need for it and is just a hinderance to combat.

People seem to do extremely fine with combat on PC otherwise we wouldn't keep seeing DPS nerfs.

jircris11

Wolfpaw wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

[

Mojmir wrote: »

WoW is probably the worst game ive ever seen, and im talking when it was new.

You've lead a very fortunate life!

There are huge numbers of actually terrible games out there, and for you to have avoided them all demonstrates either great luck or great skill.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS had no problem copying Esper skill from Wildstar and giving it to Sorcerer Bound Armament, I was really surprised they had taken* that skill design visuals*.

Fast forward 5:10
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E40e3TejBk0

Not a fan of taking a person's visual design and using w/o giving credit, but every game incorporates great system designs from other games.

Bound armament has been in tes games longer then W* gas been a shower thought though.

Yup, the name bound arnament has been in tes games, the name, not eso skill. BA was reworked for ESO, & again in p5.2.5 Dragonhold (W* Esper patch).

I'll need to re-watch esper skills, though I will admit I miss W*

I'm not much of a housing fan, but W* did that one system better than any other mmorpg, imo.

Thinking about it more, a ZOS dev may have made this visual change to BA in tribute to Wildstar also, maybe just a fan that missed that universe.

I believe it's a good thing when great games add systems, skills, etc...from other great games.

I still get nostalgic of Altered Beast when I play a shapeshifter 😁[/quote]

I miss my Chua lol, w* was unique sadly it was also proof gamers don't really want harder content XD. Abd tea the housing system was awesome.

AyaDark

I do not think they need to learn from oyher games, I play a lot of them Now TESO is one of the best in a lot of aspects - copy bad thingth from other projects will not make TESO better.

It can Only make it worse.

GarnetFire17

What they should learn from other games, is to not be too much like them.

jircris11

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

What they should learn from other games, is to not be too much like them.

I think they are doing a decent job at that. Least they did not go swtor rout, even lead devs admitted they wished they did not follow wows build as closely as they did.

Goregrinder

jircris11 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

[

Mojmir wrote: »

WoW is probably the worst game ive ever seen, and im talking when it was new.

You've lead a very fortunate life!

There are huge numbers of actually terrible games out there, and for you to have avoided them all demonstrates either great luck or great skill.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ZOS had no problem copying Esper skill from Wildstar and giving it to Sorcerer Bound Armament, I was really surprised they had taken* that skill design visuals*.

Fast forward 5:10
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E40e3TejBk0

Not a fan of taking a person's visual design and using w/o giving credit, but every game incorporates great system designs from other games.

Bound armament has been in tes games longer then W* gas been a shower thought though.

Yup, the name bound arnament has been in tes games, the name, not eso skill. BA was reworked for ESO, & again in p5.2.5 Dragonhold (W* Esper patch).

I'll need to re-watch esper skills, though I will admit I miss W*

I'm not much of a housing fan, but W* did that one system better than any other mmorpg, imo.

Thinking about it more, a ZOS dev may have made this visual change to BA in tribute to Wildstar also, maybe just a fan that missed that universe.

I believe it's a good thing when great games add systems, skills, etc...from other great games.

I still get nostalgic of Altered Beast when I play a shapeshifter 😁

I miss my Chua lol, w* was unique sadly it was also proof gamers don't really want harder content XD. Abd tea the housing system was awesome. [/quote]

I preferred SWG's non-instanced player house TBH.Player cities, and physically seeing a house and walking in it without a load screen was just so spectacular. It was ahead of it's time.

robertthebard

Aertew wrote: »

RedMuse wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Do we really need to have a 10 slot active bar? Those other games that have all abilities on the bar, end up with most of them doing the same thing, just on cool downs.

I meant removing bar swapping and just including the abilities together. The main reason for bar swapping was for console. On PC there is no need for it and is just a hinderance to combat.

That would remove one weapon and make playing healer and tank even more annoying in general gameplay than they already are. Making fewer people want to play tank and healer is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a while. It would also remove one of the more unique features of ESO and its combat system so again, no.

As someone said a bit earlier. You could still have 2 weapons and switch between them. You just wouldnt need to switch weapons soley for your class abilities. For example if km a stamdk with a bow and dual wield. I could have a ability from the bow skilline and a ability from the dual wield skill line on it. But I can only use the bow skill when im switched to my bow and I can only use the dual wield skill when im dual wielding. This would save the trouble of switching for 1 or 2 abilities and switching back.

So what happens when you want more than one weapon ability for each weapon type? Which class abilities do you have to give up, instead of setting up their own bars for each?

In regard to the comment about bar swapping being for consoles, was there ever a time when bar swapping wasn't a thing in ESO? It's not like the PC version was ported over from console, after all...

Destai

I think ESO has its strengths and there's probably a million reasons I'm playing it and not WoW or GW2. I still believe that GW2 has the best combat system in any MMO, so I wish ZOS would learn from them a little. Knowing what slot a skill goes in, the auto-attack (in-lieu of our awful weaving), build saving, currency - the list goes on.

WiseSky

In a world so large and diverse we can all learn from each other but what makes it special is being different from one another too.

Goregrinder

Destai wrote: »

I think ESO has its strengths and there's probably a million reasons I'm playing it and not WoW or GW2. I still believe that GW2 has the best combat system in any MMO, so I wish ZOS would learn from them a little. Knowing what slot a skill goes in, the auto-attack (in-lieu of our awful weaving), build saving, currency - the list goes on.

For those that want a system that lies in between action based, and tab targeted, GW2 is definitely what they are looking for. I've personally played way too many tab target based MMORPG's to want to play anymore of them. I prefer systems that reward mechanical aim and movement, so fortunately for players like me, we at least have one MMORPG in existence that provides this: ESO.