Magcro...did i pick the wrong class? I die in 3 seconds in PVP :(

marshill88

Is there another magcro here? I do ok in distance, but any melee can immediately close the gap and i'm dead...im dead so fast it isn't funny (funny to the other guy I'm sure). I can't get away. I have no way to freeze the melee guy like he can do to me. I don't see much good CC on any of my inherent skills. I dont really have a spell that inflicts the massive amounts of damage that I see happen to me a lot. Maybe I just suck, which is certainly possible, or I'm not understanding my class very well. How does a Magcro PVP well?

SirAndy

If only we had class change tokens ...

propertyOfUndefined

I main a magcro, and I think it has more innate "tankiness" than most of the other magicka specs -- perhaps tied with magden. All of the problems you describe seem to be around your build. For example, if it's a stun you need, you can get it from other skill lines -- e.g. destructive clench (with a flame staff), volcanic rune, timestop, mesmerize, etc. For mobility, consider skills like "race against time" or mist form. One small tip is to keep your HoTs up all the time, and purge negative effects when you can. I pvp often with magcro and enjoy it immensely.

Kwoung

You have numerous CC skills, also check your armor, is your crit resist above 2200 and your spell/physical resists pretty decent at least (over 15k each)? Do you have your red tree speced for PVP? Also, Blastbones can be pretty deadly.

While Magcro is probably not in the best place, it isn't complete trash IMHO. From your post it kinda sounds like you jumped into PVP in a PVE setup, which if true is a guaranteed smackdown for you. Oh, and I would try to stay out of melee range, you may want to make sure you are running swift or have something like RAT slotted to use for when they start closing in.

Lastly, immovable pots can be your friend, use them... a lot.

INe_Saninus

They're currently arguing in the PVP section about whether Magcro is top of the food chain right now.
The reason for this argument is apparently the CP changes combined with the base stat changes made Magcro super tanky with solid damage options.
Having damage is great, but being able to survive and deliver that damage is what makes a class high tier.

So, no.
I don't think you chose the wrong class.

This game is funny.
It's an interesting combination of class and build knowledge with a super high skill ceiling.
Fail at any of those 3 and you're going to struggle.
...but what makes or breaks you in pvp is your skill level.

There is no easy ride to being great in pvp.
Sure you can slap a cheese build on a top tier class and burn down potatoes...
...but you ain't going to pull those shenanigans on a skilled player.
He's going to recognize your cheese, heal through it, and then peel your hairline back.
Then you come on the forums asking if you chose the wrong class... lol. (I'm joking)

Do your research.
Watch some Youtubers.
Watch how they heal. When they burst. How they set up their combos.
Get the hell beat out of you a couple hundred times.
Think about your class strengths and then build for them and play around them.

Then when you think you have it and you start beating everyone's *** you'll run into a monster that teaches you that you still got a ways to go
Then the cycle repeats until you're that monster.

Good luck and good hunting.

propertyOfUndefined

INe_Saninus wrote: »

They're currently arguing in the PVP section about whether Magcro is top of the food chain right now.
The reason for this argument is apparently the CP changes combined with the base stat changes made Magcro super tanky with solid damage options.
Having damage is great, but being able to survive and deliver that damage is what makes a class high tier.

So, no.
I don't think you chose the wrong class.

This game is funny.
It's an interesting combination of class and build knowledge with a super high skill ceiling.
Fail at any of those 3 and you're going to struggle.
...but what makes or breaks you in pvp is your skill level.

There is no easy ride to being great in pvp.
Sure you can slap a cheese build on a top tier class and burn down potatoes...
...but you ain't going to pull those shenanigans on a skilled player.
He's going to recognize your cheese, heal through it, and then peel your hairline back.
Then you come on the forums asking if you chose the wrong class... lol. (I'm joking)

Do your research.
Watch some Youtubers.
Watch how they heal. When they burst. How they set up their combos.
Get the hell beat out of you a couple hundred times.
Think about your class strengths and then build for them and play around them.

Then when you think you have it and you start beating everyone's *** you'll run into a monster that teaches you that you still got a ways to go
Then the cycle repeats until you're that monster.

Good luck and good hunting.

Couldn’t have said it any better! Great post!

marshill88

INe_Saninus wrote: »

They're currently arguing in the PVP section about whether Magcro is top of the food chain right now.
The reason for this argument is apparently the CP changes combined with the base stat changes made Magcro super tanky with solid damage options.
Having damage is great, but being able to survive and deliver that damage is what makes a class high tier.

So, no.
I don't think you chose the wrong class.

This game is funny.
It's an interesting combination of class and build knowledge with a super high skill ceiling.
Fail at any of those 3 and you're going to struggle.
...but what makes or breaks you in pvp is your skill level.

There is no easy ride to being great in pvp.
Sure you can slap a cheese build on a top tier class and burn down potatoes...
...but you ain't going to pull those shenanigans on a skilled player.
He's going to recognize your cheese, heal through it, and then peel your hairline back.
Then you come on the forums asking if you chose the wrong class... lol. (I'm joking)

Do your research.
Watch some Youtubers.
Watch how they heal. When they burst. How they set up their combos.
Get the hell beat out of you a couple hundred times.
Think about your class strengths and then build for them and play around them.

Then when you think you have it and you start beating everyone's *** you'll run into a monster that teaches you that you still got a ways to go
Then the cycle repeats until you're that monster.

Good luck and good hunting.

friend, this is very encouraging. I'm delighted to know I have a good class and it's just me not understanding how to perform well enough in PVP. I watch some videos and have looked at guides but the problem with that is I can't ask the youtuber questions or get visual feedback on my technique. So I'm paying any PVP magcro 100k or a crown crate gift for 20 minutes of in game tutoring. I sent undefined a PM asking him, I really need some in-game help because I know I can do this if I just can wrap my head around the right skills to put on my bars and the basic tactic of using them along with the basic approach to gear skills.

INe_Saninus

@marshill88

Magcro is one of one 3 classes I don't play, so I can't offer advice on build or skills.

But I can offer this:

I did not really learn until I took my ego out of it.
I didn't fight to win. I fought to learn.
I don't duel. I play open world or BGs.
I learned most of my lessons getting demolished by monsters in Imperial City.
People play for real there.
I didn't run from a fight that I couldn't win.
I'd look for those fights. I'd just strive to last longer. I'd ask where did I mess up. How did he get me this time.
Hell, I'd chase the same guy and fight him 3 or 4 times.
It probably read as salty, but i was anything but salty, i was learning.

Getting your *** beat 200 times will teach you more than 20 minutes with a skilled player. Especially if you're hard headed like me. It's far cheaper too.

Take each fight as an opportunity to become better.

I still lose 1v1s. I still run into people who are better.
They're few and far between now, but they're still out there. Waiting to teach me how to get better.

tsaescishoeshiner

I'm going to copy my PvP primer from another thread and add some necro advice:

PvP is all about burst, pressure, and sustain.

Burst is how much damage you can do over 1-3 seconds, and usually with a stun. Pressure is about dealing steady damage and making them need to heal instead of attack, or to reduce their health for your burst combo. And sustain is how well you can keep up your stamina, health, and for many builds, magicka.

It's good to roll dodge once after breaking free if they're stunning you for their burst combo, or after using a heal-over-time when you need some space. If you're under 75% health, you're in danger of being bursted down. Just don't wanna dodge twice in a row unless necessary, cuz it costs more to use in quick succession.

Stuns are important to use either to kill your enemy or protect yourself by stopping their burst and pressure.

Necros have access to blastbones—an amazing PvP skill you should probably use every 3 seconds. It can't be roll dodged, and is a major burst enabler for you. Stunning or ulting someone right when or right before blastbones hits (before they can heal) is a great kill strategy. Flame Clench from the Destro Staff skill line is pretty good, IMO. Spirit Guardian (-10% damage taken) and Annulment (light armor skill line) are good skills to keep your health topped off. Personally, I also like Rapid Regeneration from the Resto Staff tree, but that depends on what weapons you want to use.

I'm far from a magcro expert, and I could give you more advice in-game, but using self-buffs, DoTs, blastbones, and a well-timed stun should turn you into a real noobdunker in battlegrounds. You can either build for all damage (Necropotence and Spinner's, for example) or take a defensive/recovery set like Eternal Vigor.

If stam characters jump on you, block, use Blastbones or a survival skill, then roll dodge if you have to, then stun them and start blasting them with damage. Ideally, you already have heals or a damage shield on, and have already casted blastbones before they jump on you, so you can immediately stun them. It stops their burst combo and puts them on the back foot. Crushing Shock is probably the spammable you want to use. Sometimes, the best way to survive is to force your opponent to save themselves. Of course, there will still be great PvP players who seem to take no damage and burst you down instantly—it'll slowly start to make sense how they can do that.

I also strongly recommend using Bewitched Sugar Skulls for magicka classes—it gives you health recovety and max stamina, so you can dodge roll more and get some health back for free over time.

It takes experience learning how to stop other people's burst combos, so hang in there!

Kwoung

There is also a nice addon, improved death recap. You will die a lot while learning, it will help you see why, in a much better way than the simple recap the game gives you, which basically offers nothing. You will see all the events that led up to your death, and if you analyze them you will start to learn how to counter them, one step at a time. I am 2 years into PVP and still learning. I get a lot more kills now, I definitely live longer, but I still get beat down many times a day.. but like was said above, each one is a learning experience and makes me just a bit better, and sometimes something clicks and makes me a lot better..

Goregrinder

You just haven't learned the strengths and weaknesses of Magcro in the context of PVP yet. Magcro's weaknesses are mobility and CC. You have very little tools to escape, and not very many good options to lockdown opponents so you have to build/play around that. It's strength is harmony bombing (if you should be inclined), tankiness, delayed burst (similar to warden), and has access to goliath form (reset button) and a 3 person rez. They excel in groups, and struggle solo...as opposed to say Magblade who excels solo but offers very little to groups.

GimpyPorcupine

Magcros are all about those corpses, so you'll want to generate a ton of them. That means always casting Blastbones on cooldown, and recasting your Mender and Summoner's Armor once they've passed the 50% mark. I like intensive mender because I can get a fresh corpse every 4 seconds from it. These corpses will give the damage buff to your Boneyard DOT, the self purge from Renewing Undeath, and a target for your Braided Tether (which, when procs worked in Cyro, was straight-up dirty paired with Gossamer and Troll King).

Since, like templars, they lack class mobility, you can opt to use the "build your house" playstyle. Keep your Agony Totem down for Minor Protection and Fear, and keep a Boneyard down; opponents will be wary of coming into in for fear of the Colossus/Graverobber combo.

katorga

INe_Saninus wrote: »

They're currently arguing in the PVP section about whether Magcro is top of the food chain right now.
The reason for this argument is apparently the CP changes combined with the base stat changes made Magcro super tanky with solid damage options.
Having damage is great, but being able to survive and deliver that damage is what makes a class high tier.

So, no.
I don't think you chose the wrong class.

This game is funny.
It's an interesting combination of class and build knowledge with a super high skill ceiling.
Fail at any of those 3 and you're going to struggle.
...but what makes or breaks you in pvp is your skill level.

There is no easy ride to being great in pvp.
Sure you can slap a cheese build on a top tier class and burn down potatoes...
...but you ain't going to pull those shenanigans on a skilled player.
He's going to recognize your cheese, heal through it, and then peel your hairline back.
Then you come on the forums asking if you chose the wrong class... lol. (I'm joking)

Do your research.
Watch some Youtubers.
Watch how they heal. When they burst. How they set up their combos.
Get the hell beat out of you a couple hundred times.
Think about your class strengths and then build for them and play around them.

Then when you think you have it and you start beating everyone's *** you'll run into a monster that teaches you that you still got a ways to go
Then the cycle repeats until you're that monster.

Good luck and good hunting.

Link because I do not see any recent posts in pvp combat & skills forum arguing that Magcro is any good. The last positive rating I saw was from last patch and based entirely on using proc sets.

CaptainVenom

marshill88 wrote: »

Is there another magcro here? I do ok in distance, but any melee can immediately close the gap and i'm dead...im dead so fast it isn't funny (funny to the other guy I'm sure). I can't get away. I have no way to freeze the melee guy like he can do to me. I don't see much good CC on any of my inherent skills. I dont really have a spell that inflicts the massive amounts of damage that I see happen to me a lot. Maybe I just suck, which is certainly possible, or I'm not understanding my class very well. How does a Magcro PVP well?

Magnecro is the worst class in pvp. Skulls hit ridiculously low and are slow AF it's a joke. I don't know if there's a bug with the class or something... but here's something interesting I saw in my death recap yesterday:



I had about 15k resistances here, and a little more than 1000 critical resistance.
Two skulls for a 5.378 damage. One single crystal frag from a sorc did more than double damage in comparison. Before switching I had a full legendary equipment magnecro, gold from weapon to armor and even jewelry, and all I got was a trash damage like that.

Magnecro is the worst and easiest class to kill in pvp. I can assure you because I played this terrible class/build for a long time before going to my sorcerer. People who say "magnecro is top#1 pvp" never played the class and possibly are being believing in false number and reports.

Like, really. NO WAY magnecro is good for pvp. Not even remotely.

Goregrinder

INe_Saninus wrote: »

They're currently arguing in the PVP section about whether Magcro is top of the food chain right now.
The reason for this argument is apparently the CP changes combined with the base stat changes made Magcro super tanky with solid damage options.
Having damage is great, but being able to survive and deliver that damage is what makes a class high tier.

So, no.
I don't think you chose the wrong class.

This game is funny.
It's an interesting combination of class and build knowledge with a super high skill ceiling.
Fail at any of those 3 and you're going to struggle.
...but what makes or breaks you in pvp is your skill level.

There is no easy ride to being great in pvp.
Sure you can slap a cheese build on a top tier class and burn down potatoes...
...but you ain't going to pull those shenanigans on a skilled player.
He's going to recognize your cheese, heal through it, and then peel your hairline back.
Then you come on the forums asking if you chose the wrong class... lol. (I'm joking)

Do your research.
Watch some Youtubers.
Watch how they heal. When they burst. How they set up their combos.
Get the hell beat out of you a couple hundred times.
Think about your class strengths and then build for them and play around them.

Then when you think you have it and you start beating everyone's *** you'll run into a monster that teaches you that you still got a ways to go
Then the cycle repeats until you're that monster.

Good luck and good hunting.

This is probably the most important piece of information you could give to someone new to PVP, because it's the truth. All of the top tier PVPers will always tell you that at the end of the day what makes or breaks your success is 100% your skill, but for some reason 7 years later people still don't want to believe it. They still blame it on CP or gear they are missing or their wireless mouse or their low framerate etc.

INe_Saninus

@katorga

I was wrong. It was in General Discussion.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568150/pvp-tierlist-for-flames-of-ambition/p1

AinSoph

Magcro is most likely the worst offensive class in PvP with no good damage ults, exe, mobility or cc.

Stahlor

AinSoph wrote: »

Magcro is most likely the worst offensive class in PvP with no good damage ults, exe, mobility or cc.

Dawnbreaker?

Thoragaal

INe_Saninus wrote: »

Then when you think you have it and you start beating everyone's *** you'll run into [...]

You run into ZOS and their constant changes!

CaptainVenom

Stahlor wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

Magcro is most likely the worst offensive class in PvP with no good damage ults, exe, mobility or cc.

Dawnbreaker?

Which is a fighter's guild ult, by the way.

If you build your magnecro with skills available to every class, you're not playing magnecro, just a generic magicka build that would work the same way on any class you apply it to. It's about time people learn the difference on playing a class (using class skills) and playing a generic, class-less toon.

INe_Saninus

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

Magcro is most likely the worst offensive class in PvP with no good damage ults, exe, mobility or cc.

Dawnbreaker?

Which is a fighter's guild ult, by the way.

If you build your magnecro with skills available to every class, you're not playing magnecro, just a generic magicka build that would work the same way on any class you apply it to. It's about time people learn the difference on playing a class (using class skills) and playing a generic, class-less toon.

Which would be on par with most stamina toons other than NB or DK.
...and really I rock what? 5 Dk abilities over both my bars on my Stam DK. Maybe 5...!

Stamplar if you want to count useful class abilities.

I'm not arguing whether Magcro is good.
I don't play the class.
It clearly has good defensive class skills though. Add in Blastbones and you've got something you can work with.

...but if having to use out of class abilities for your ult/spammable/cc makes a class bad, then you can take almost all the stam toons out of the running.

katorga

Goregrinder wrote: »

INe_Saninus wrote: »

They're currently arguing in the PVP section about whether Magcro is top of the food chain right now.
The reason for this argument is apparently the CP changes combined with the base stat changes made Magcro super tanky with solid damage options.
Having damage is great, but being able to survive and deliver that damage is what makes a class high tier.

So, no.
I don't think you chose the wrong class.

This game is funny.
It's an interesting combination of class and build knowledge with a super high skill ceiling.
Fail at any of those 3 and you're going to struggle.
...but what makes or breaks you in pvp is your skill level.

There is no easy ride to being great in pvp.
Sure you can slap a cheese build on a top tier class and burn down potatoes...
...but you ain't going to pull those shenanigans on a skilled player.
He's going to recognize your cheese, heal through it, and then peel your hairline back.
Then you come on the forums asking if you chose the wrong class... lol. (I'm joking)

Do your research.
Watch some Youtubers.
Watch how they heal. When they burst. How they set up their combos.
Get the hell beat out of you a couple hundred times.
Think about your class strengths and then build for them and play around them.

Then when you think you have it and you start beating everyone's *** you'll run into a monster that teaches you that you still got a ways to go
Then the cycle repeats until you're that monster.

Good luck and good hunting.

This is probably the most important piece of information you could give to someone new to PVP, because it's the truth. All of the top tier PVPers will always tell you that at the end of the day what makes or breaks your success is 100% your skill, but for some reason 7 years later people still don't want to believe it. They still blame it on CP or gear they are missing or their wireless mouse or their low framerate etc.

I play both magsorc and magcro. So my skill level is effectively a fixed constant. Sorc magnifies my ability. Necro hampers it. Simple enough.

CaptainVenom

INe_Saninus wrote: »

...but if having to use out of class abilities for your ult/spammable/cc makes a class bad, then you can take almost all the stam toons out of the running.

And I couldn't agree more. Let me show you something:



This is Alcast's pvp stamnecro skill setup. Out of all 12 skills, you have four (I repeat: F O U R) class skills. This isn't a stamnecro. This is a stam-[insert any class name here]. And OF COURSE any would shine in pvp: they don't rely on class skills.

stamnecro got class skills for stamina, yet they prefer weapon and guild ones. And how in ****ing hell can someone say necromancer is good in pvp, if they don't even use class skills?

Ippokrates

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Magnecro is the worst class in pvp. Skulls hit ridiculously low and are slow AF it's a joke. I don't know if there's a bug with the class or something... but here's something interesting I saw in my death recap yesterday:



I had about 15k resistances here, and a little more than 1000 critical resistance.
Two skulls for a 5.378 damage. One single crystal frag from a sorc did more than double damage in comparison. Before switching I had a full legendary equipment magnecro, gold from weapon to armor and even jewelry, and all I got was a trash damage like that.

If you want to compare dmg skills, maybe it would be better to check their coefficients, which you can easily do at UESP:
ESO skill browser.

Then you will see that in with the same values: 2000 SD + 20000 Magicka, above mentioned skills will have following dmg:
Ricochet Skull: 3937 DD
Crystal Fragments: 4527 DD
Poison Injection: 2225 DD + 4452/10 DOT

Of course there are some varies, like buffs (access to sorcery), crit chance & dmg, penetration, but claiming that Necro is weaker than other classes because of you death recap is... silly.

Especially that every Crystal Fragment as third cast will have bonues of 66%, while every third Ricochet Skull will give you two additional skulls, which is additional 200% while fighting mobs. So, depending on the situation, Necro could be easily better than Sorc.

CaptainVenom

Ippokrates wrote: »

[..] claiming that Necro is weaker than other classes because of you death recap is... silly.

Care to elaborate? Because All I see here in my death recap is reality. It's the actual game.

shard basic damage is 2483 Magic Damage. 66% means an extra 1638 damage.
skull basic damage is 2160 Flame Damage. 20% means an extra 432 damage.

Shard total damage: 4121
Skull total damage: 2592

Shard total damage is not even double, so 2 skulls should out-damage one shard with ease. Yet in my recap did up to 4 times a skull damage. Magnecro is pure trash in pvp right now, and I'm showing not only numbers but actual images to prove it. I really don't understand why you guys keep saying magnecro is good, when it's clearly not. Here's another recap, this time from CP IC:



What's next? You gonna say every single magnecro I bump into is a bad player?

https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/necromancer/grave-lord/ricochet-skull
https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/sorcerer/dark-magic/crystal-fragments

Flaaklypa

CaptainVenom wrote: »

INe_Saninus wrote: »

...but if having to use out of class abilities for your ult/spammable/cc makes a class bad, then you can take almost all the stam toons out of the running.

And I couldn't agree more. Let me show you something:



This is Alcast's pvp stamnecro skill setup. Out of all 12 skills, you have four (I repeat: F O U R) class skills. This isn't a stamnecro. This is a stam-[insert any class name here]. And OF COURSE any would shine in pvp: they don't rely on class skills.

stamnecro got class skills for stamina, yet they prefer weapon and guild ones. And how in ****ing hell can someone say necromancer is good in pvp, if they don't even use class skills?

bro. how long have you pvped? [snip] and what does the number of class skills got to do with a class's strength? they have something called "passives" too.

[Edited to remove Bashing]

dinokstrunz

CaptainVenom wrote: »

INe_Saninus wrote: »

...but if having to use out of class abilities for your ult/spammable/cc makes a class bad, then you can take almost all the stam toons out of the running.

And I couldn't agree more. Let me show you something:



This is Alcast's pvp stamnecro skill setup. Out of all 12 skills, you have four (I repeat: F O U R) class skills. This isn't a stamnecro. This is a stam-[insert any class name here]. And OF COURSE any would shine in pvp: they don't rely on class skills.

stamnecro got class skills for stamina, yet they prefer weapon and guild ones. And how in ****ing hell can someone say necromancer is good in pvp, if they don't even use class skills?

thanks for the chuckle

INe_Saninus

The tread is devolving.

The guy just asked if he chose the wrong class.

To address a few points:

-Yes. My skill level is roughly the same per class, but I'm still better on some than others. And that's regardless of where they fall on any tier list.
...but to achieve that similar skill level per class, I have to remind myself to play to the classes strength.
I can't play a Stamcorc like my Stamden or I'm going to struggle.

-I'm sure that only the very best players in pvp are commenting on this thread. You all are the cream of the crop, but consider that the playstyle of a certain toon just doesn't fit yours.
I'm currently learning Magsorc.
It places high on any tier list you look at and I'm struggling.
It's completely counter to how I'm used to playing. My other 2 mag toons play similarly to their stam counterparts.
Magsorc does not.
...but you put me on my Stamplar and I'm going to blow my last Magsorc Battleground match out of the water.

Doesn't mean the class is bad. Just means I'm not good with it. (Yet. I will be. Lol)

Ippokrates

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Care to elaborate? Because All I see here in my death recap is reality. It's the actual game.

Yeah, some gyus you have no idea what builds, sets and crits they have hits you. That's ultimate proof of unbalance. Sure.

What next? You will show everyone your 200K DPS, not mentioning that you get this result from Mudcrabs in Fungal Grotto?

CaptainVenom wrote: »

shard basic damage is 2483 Magic Damage. 66% means an extra 1638 damage.
skull basic damage is 2160 Flame Damage. 20% means an extra 432 damage.

Shard total damage: 4121
Skull total damage: 2592


Shard total damage is not even double, so 2 skulls should out-damage one shard with ease. Yet in my recap did up to 4 times a skull damage. Magnecro is pure trash in pvp right now, and I'm showing not only numbers but actual images to prove it. I really don't understand why you guys keep saying magnecro is good, when it's clearly not.

Yeah, but assuming this was pure dmg, this difference could be result of differences around 1000 WD (you can easily get from trial sets and active buffs) + 5000 Magicka (which could depend on food choice), so this is not so maaaaasive difference. Of course, not mentioning crit hit, what is most plausible explanation.

CaptainVenom wrote: »

What's next? You gonna say every single magnecro I bump into is a bad player?

TBH that is possible, because many noobies consider Necro as a PREMIUM class, and choosing it to have advantage over others... but fortunately ESO doesn't work that way.

I mean, Necro could be great class, especially once you master corpse mechanics, but premium status doesn't replace your personal skills.

BohnT2

CaptainVenom wrote: »

INe_Saninus wrote: »

...but if having to use out of class abilities for your ult/spammable/cc makes a class bad, then you can take almost all the stam toons out of the running.

And I couldn't agree more. Let me show you something:



This is Alcast's pvp stamnecro skill setup. Out of all 12 skills, you have four (I repeat: F O U R) class skills. This isn't a stamnecro. This is a stam-[insert any class name here]. And OF COURSE any would shine in pvp: they don't rely on class skills.

stamnecro got class skills for stamina, yet they prefer weapon and guild ones. And how in ****ing hell can someone say necromancer is good in pvp, if they don't even use class skills?

Your argument is bad and also completely wrong.
First of all that bar setup is utterly bad, not using mortal coil is a sin which should lead to the character being deleted.

Secondly stamnecro can comfortably fill in 7 of 12 slots with class skills.
All other skills simply don't exist in its toolkit for example a proper spammable, an execute, major brutality and a snare removal.
That's 3 skills namely dizzying, executioner, Rally/FM.
Now each and every stamina spec is running vigor.
And the last slot can be filled with whatever you need be it a skill offering major expedition, major breach etc.

Those 4 skills are more or less set for all other stamina specs except for dizzying on stamplar and stamnb.

The other 5 active and 2 ultimates make a big difference along with the passives which stamnecro has some of the best ones in the game.
And the 5 skills stamnecro has access to are all incredibly powerful/overperforming in their own way.
Mortal Coil is just a laughably overpowered skill now, it heals for so much, is free and restores stamina along with proccing the passives granting more ultimate than other class's passives.

Spirit guardian heals for a good amount and on top grants an unnamed source of major protection.

Blastbones has the same base TT as DBoS while also applying major defile and acts as a damage absorber, while being cheap af.

The only two skills not being insanely powerful are expunge and bone armor but those skills are still not bad.

Stamina necromancer is a spec that completely overshadows old stamina bawlers and is only beaten by the other DLC Class.
If you can't do well on a stamnecro the fault is 100% on your end.

Ippokrates

BohnT2 wrote: »

Your argument is bad and also completely wrong.

Agree with that.

Plus I am not sure that making build without range options (blasty has to slow cool down and you could at least replace Momentum with Hidden Blade) is a reasonable. I mean, in both PvE & PvP there is lot of mechanics and tactics that befenefit greatly from distance approach. Without them, build usefulness is severely limited...