I wrote comprehensive PvP meta guide, check it out

divnyi

Let's talk about PvP meta. It covers most of the topics that are common knowledge for experienced players.

Did I miss anything? I'm open to discussions

gariondavey

some comments:

typo of "avarage" instead of "average"
no mention of draugrkin set - it is very strong
no mention of that new DLC set that gives major heroism on bash - can be back barred and can be very strong for your bg team
your listing of 7 impen only - highly disagree. i don't run 7 impen on any of my characters. stam - mix of well fitted and impen usually. some medium or heavy - mix of impen + sturdy or just full sturdy. mag - mix of impen + well fitted.

i did read to the end. good work, most of it was pretty accurate and definitely a good resource for people looking to learn more about bgs.

Thraben

I think this is a nice summary. The jewelry traits need to be mentioned, though; particularly swift versus harmony.


Battlegrounds may be a start for many people who want to PvP, therefore your approach might be to generalistic.
I can very well imagine a former PvE group of 4 who consist of 3 bruisers and 1 healer, and get utterly stomped because they are StamDK bruisers.

I'd suggest,

1) Tell people directly that it's not any kind of bruiser that works. Only StamWardens and StamNecroes will do if one is inexperienced, because of their delayed burst skills.

2) Battlegrounds/ healing
Tell people more directly that ESO group PvP is utterly dominated by cross healing, far more than in any comparable game. Having 3 self-sustaining bruisers with the solo vigor morph and one healer would be a death sentence for the healer. It's better not to have any real healer at all in that case, or use the StamWarden bruisers for that role.

divnyi

gariondavey wrote: »

no mention of draugrkin set - it is very strong
no mention of that new DLC set that gives major heroism on bash - can be back barred and can be very strong for your bg team

It's because I never saw ppl use those, and honestly, I can't assess how good draugrkin is by looking on it. I assume you put dots and throw crushing shocks for tripple proc per spammable? I won't argue that it's bad, or any non-listed set is bad, tho, because some articles in my blog use sets that aren't in the list too

But I will add Drakes Rush to the list of support sets, as there aren't too many of interesting ones.

On impen, that's my opinion on the subject, but I don't like to make myself vulnerable to crits, even if that's rare. Specifically, if you run more soloQ and not duo/4man in group queue, you will face a lot of NBs. Same for IC. I don't think other bonuses (except sturdy, if you are serious blocking) are worth the risk of receiving much higher burst.

Thraben wrote: »

I think this is a nice summary. The jewelry traits need to be mentioned, though; particularly swift versus harmony.

Can you elaborate on the Harmony? Is that cyro thing, or BGs too? I did mention swift tho.

Thraben wrote: »

1) Tell people directly that it's not any kind of bruiser that works. Only StamWardens and StamNecroes will do if one is inexperienced, because of their delayed burst skills.

I'm not really sure if stamcro bruiser is the best advice for newbies, as they lack HP% healing (which stamDK have, particularly). But I think a mention of Warden at bruiser definition should do the trick.

Thraben wrote: »

2) Battlegrounds/ healing
Tell people more directly that ESO group PvP is utterly dominated by cross healing, far more than in any comparable game. Having 3 self-sustaining bruisers with the solo vigor morph and one healer would be a death sentence for the healer. It's better not to have any real healer at all in that case, or use the StamWarden bruisers for that role.

I can kindly disagree on this one. Bruisers by themselves don't do that much of cross-healing, at least in group of 4, so applies less to BG. In my experience dedicated healer works. Some pro players can even play classic healer and don't have that much deaths due to proper positioning, but sure, they will get targeted. My experience of running tank-healer + 3 bruisers is that you still feel weak against targeted burst, but that's like 2-4 deaths per game with your bruisers have close to 0.

gariondavey

@divnyi i play in high mmr bgs in PC NA. a good chunk of people use malacath, hence impen not being as good. most people i know don't use full impen. and draugrkin is stupid strong with dots that tick 1 second, jabs, dw 5 hit attack, ballista, crushing shock.

divnyi

Updated the guide, added class/skill line descriptions.

Rhaegar75

divnyi wrote: »

Let's talk about PvP meta. It covers most of the topics that are common knowledge for experienced players.

Did I miss anything? I'm open to discussions

Impressive work mate!!! You obviously put a lot of hard work into it /bow

Maybe you could add some links to prominent YouTubers as I found them very helpful when I started playing.

You may also add some quick noob guides/suggestions to point new players to easy to play noob classes like magsorcs and wardens

master_vanargand

I have Well-Fitted of 7 in PvP.
It's very easy to survive.

Mayrael

What about frenzied momentum and explosive rebuke combo? One of the most bursty combos available. Add to this subterranean assault and DBoS + some defensive set like crimson and you're good to go wiping whole groups. Edit: oh and instead of using executioner use reverse slice, with that aoe power you don't even have to aim.

Also I don't agree about noproc Cyrodiil being bad thing, it's more player skill based now and no I don't play magsorc, stamden, stamnecro or anything close to this, I play magblade and I enjoy Cyro PvP as I haven't since launch. It's fantastic.

divnyi

Mayrael wrote: »

Also I don't agree about noproc Cyrodiil being bad thing, it's more player skill based now and no I don't play magsorc, stamden, stamnecro or anything close to this, I play magblade and I enjoy Cyro PvP as I haven't since launch. It's fantastic.

Well, whatever you enjoy, but there isn't much meta to discuss anyway, since the variation of sets is very limited.

As for rebuke, this might work for you, but the set is pretty clunky to give as a general advice.

Reverse slice has much less damage. That bonus is progressive, it's not like you have +300% at 49% HP. So having +200% vs +150% at 25% matters, imo. Especially when you don't have much stats. And you have to aim, since AoE based on the damage you did to initial target.

Emmagoldman

Suggestion for mag sorc, move curse and frag up to essential. Fury is nice but not essential.

Combos are centered around curse frag.
Curse, 2 spam, frag
Curse, HA, frag, fury
Curse, 1 spam, fury, frag
Curse, 1 spam, streak, frag
Curse, 2 spam, dodge roll in, frag
Curse, spam, encase, frag

It has defined the sorc meta for ages

Mayrael

divnyi wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Also I don't agree about noproc Cyrodiil being bad thing, it's more player skill based now and no I don't play magsorc, stamden, stamnecro or anything close to this, I play magblade and I enjoy Cyro PvP as I haven't since launch. It's fantastic.

Well, whatever you enjoy, but there isn't much meta to discuss anyway, since the variation of sets is very limited.

As for rebuke, this might work for you, but the set is pretty clunky to give as a general advice.

Reverse slice has much less damage. That bonus is progressive, it's not like you have +300% at 49% HP. So having +200% vs +150% at 25% matters, imo. Especially when you don't have much stats. And you have to aim, since AoE based on the damage you did to initial target.

Have you ever tried it? I mean reverse slice. When most of your damage is aoe after your full combo any target will be in execute range Frenzied + Rebuke + Subterranean + DBoS if they survive it almost everyone will be close to execute range. Yes there is a difference between 200% and 150% when you take into consideration single target, but when you have 2 targets you have 200% vs 300% and each target multiplies it so it's all about what you want to achieve? Setup I provided is loan mowing setup that wipes whole groups, are there better single target setups? Yes. But why limit your self to killing one guy when you can be grim reaper and mow people like fresh grass.

Waffennacht

Mayrael wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Also I don't agree about noproc Cyrodiil being bad thing, it's more player skill based now and no I don't play magsorc, stamden, stamnecro or anything close to this, I play magblade and I enjoy Cyro PvP as I haven't since launch. It's fantastic.

Well, whatever you enjoy, but there isn't much meta to discuss anyway, since the variation of sets is very limited.

As for rebuke, this might work for you, but the set is pretty clunky to give as a general advice.

Reverse slice has much less damage. That bonus is progressive, it's not like you have +300% at 49% HP. So having +200% vs +150% at 25% matters, imo. Especially when you don't have much stats. And you have to aim, since AoE based on the damage you did to initial target.

Have you ever tried it? I mean reverse slice. When most of your damage is aoe after your full combo any target will be in execute range Frenzied + Rebuke + Subterranean + DBoS if they survive it almost everyone will be close to execute range. Yes there is a difference between 200% and 150% when you take into consideration single target, but when you have 2 targets you have 200% vs 300% and each target multiplies it so it's all about what you want to achieve? Setup I provided is loan mowing setup that wipes whole groups, are there better single target setups? Yes. But why limit your self to killing one guy when you can be grim reaper and mow people like fresh grass.

Just saying; a good player should recognize rebuke's glow and back off making you work to trigger it if you even can.

Thraben

Regarding Swift versus Harmony

Most small groups in PvP have to collectively decide whether it's better to move quickly (Swift), so that you can pick your own fights, or whether you want to cause as much mayhem as you can (Harmony).

There is even a class (StamNecro) which has to make the same decision: A StamNecro who wears Harmony is vastly more dangerous than one who wears Swift, but almost everyone in Cyro would choose swift because the class is inherently slow.

The thing is, to my knowledge, neither swift nor harmony play any role in a PvE player's consideration, so they should be mentioned in a PvP guide.

MerguezMan

- This is a written version, and not one of those way too long videos. Good.
- It has a date, another good thing.
- You first announce "PVP Meta", and then say you'll only talk about "BG PVP Meta", bad. Say directly you'll talk about BG.
- In attributes, you detail and separate Thoughness and Healing, IMO it's wrong considering how ESO works. Armor gives you a base resistance, and then you combine healing, health regen and magic shields as you see fit to keep HP bar up. In the end, all these have the same purpose : make you harder to be killed. You also ignore mobility, which is a huge point in PVP builds.
- Proc set list is clearly incomplete, for damage, and also for survivability/utility.
- DK/green dragon blood : are you serious ? Really ?
- Sorc - you swapped Dark deal/conversion
- 2H : no Brawler ?
- You forgot Werewolves are a thing.
- Mundus = restore or crit, while you assume Malacath ring is Meta ? Nothing buggering you, there ?
- Potions : I do agree that 3-stat are best by default, but restricting potions to only that is not honest for a guide. This allows you to slot pretty much anything that is not in your skill bar (detect, immov, invis, etc.), and swap during fights (which is not allowed for skills).
- BG composition also depends on the type of BG you go for. I wouldn't use the same setup playing DM or Chaosball, for instance.

Nice read, but there are areas to improve.

AllPlayAndNoWork

Is Malacath’s Band of Brutality still useable in PvP ?

divnyi

MerguezMan wrote: »

- You first announce "PVP Meta", and then say you'll only talk about "BG PVP Meta", bad. Say directly you'll talk about BG.

Lots of things here apply for IC and Duels too. It doesn't apply for noproc cyro, but noproc is temporary. After noproc, you can take it as a base and read cyro-specific things.

MerguezMan wrote: »

- In attributes, you detail and separate Thoughness and Healing, IMO it's wrong considering how ESO works.

I described that healing you do to yourself is Toughness, healing you do to others is Healing. Because strongest healing tools are restricted to self (shields, HP% heals, vigor). You don't call yourself healer if the only guy you heal is yourself

MerguezMan wrote: »

- DK/green dragon blood : are you serious ? Really ?
- Sorc - you swapped Dark deal/conversion
- 2H : no Brawler ?

Green dragon blood is HP% heal and resource regen (ye, same as potions, but you can prebuff) and increases amount of healing you receive. Since most of DK builds are bruisers, it is almost autoinclude. And even for a fighter, it is a strong pick.

Will fix for sorc.

Never heard about using Brawler. Even if you can, it's far from meta.

MerguezMan wrote: »

- You forgot Werewolves are a thing.

I mentioned them in bruiser choices. Didn't mention skills because you don't choose (except for morphs), and there are werewoof guides in the web.

MerguezMan wrote: »

- Mundus = restore or crit, while you assume Malacath ring is Meta ? Nothing buggering you, there ?

Nothing, because crit damage stacking is still the valid strategy to achieve insane burst numbers, and is a valid strategy on Assassin archetype.

MerguezMan wrote: »

- BG composition also depends on the type of BG you go for. I wouldn't use the same setup playing DM or Chaosball, for instance.

You don't chose which game type you will go today, it selects randomly. And as it is, going bruisers even beneficial in all the game modes. Chaosball? Bruisers can both take the ball and keep it. Relic? Bruisers can def and can carry ball under the damage without dying. Flags? Bruisers can go all-4 to compete for flags, or can split into 3-1 to fight split strategies. 2 bruisers + healer will still win most fights, 1 bruiser will still have good chances against squishies, and worst case he can try to escape and retake flag.

And that's IF you care about objectives. Most top-tier groups just pretend it's all deathmatch.

Thraben wrote: »

or whether you want to cause as much mayhem as you can (Harmony).

Can you elaborate on why Harmony causes more mayhem than, say, bloodthirsty? Any specific setup?

Mayrael wrote: »

Yes there is a difference between 200% and 150% when you take into consideration single target, but when you have 2 targets you have 200% vs 300% and each target multiplies it so it's all about what you want to achieve?

1 dead enemy and 1 alive enemy is better than 2 damaged but alive enemies. And if you want AoE finisher, Whirling Blades is better, easier to use and hits dodge.