Why don't people kick fake roles?

gariondavey

Congrolios wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Because the people who complain on reddit and forum is tiny fraction of the population.

I've tanked on my DPS more than I can remember and I've never been even voted to be kicked.

The general population does not care until the group starts wiping repeatedly which rarely occurs in normal dungeons

This. Super easy to fake tank as a dps with a taunt. Normals are so faceroll. Even dlcs on normal, or non dlc vets

I guess I should have made it clear what I meant by "fake". Some people don't consider a taunt and staying alive enough for a fake tank, but I do. No disagreement here about it being easy to do. The problem is I almost never see "fake tanks" that do this. They're just really low DPS that skipped the queue, no taunt, not even caltrops for AoE breach.

Yah I'm with you on condemning that. But that isn't what I've experienced. Heck I've even healed "tanks" in vets that had 12k hp and they never died.

VaranisArano

TequilaFire wrote: »

Auth3nticGlitch wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

How do you tell the difference between a fake tank and a just a bad tank?
Sometimes we should also kick a bad DPS.

TequilaFire A fake tank most of the time has 20k health and doesn’t taunt any enemies, the important part is does not taunt enemies since in normal dungeons health is not as important. Easy to spot within the first minute of a dungeon if you ask me.

My point is that not all are fake tanks, some are new and don't know the ropes.
So I will never vote to kick unless it is a proven known repeat offender.

In my experience, a bad tank is trying and will listen to direction like "you need to taunt the boss" or "Hey, this is the mechanic."

Fake tanks laugh at that. They have no intention of trying to fulfill their stated role.

zvavi

Tbf, I hate dd queue, so I usually tank, and I am chill with fake healers, so I rarely meet fake tanks, but when I do meet fake tanks, I slot a taunt, and convince other group members to kick him before last boss.

zharkovian

As mentioned, if the tank has taunt and crowd control slotted then all should be fine, and then it comes down to skill. It is the same with healers, if they have a full healing front or back bar and know where to stand, then all should be fine, but for dungeon level, again it comes down to skill. The damage dealers, well, they should know their role, be careful of their position and even if it is a "fake" tank, not kite the boss all over the place. I think a lot of issues would be avoided if the random dungeon queue somehow means-tested players, or at least gave players a sub group of randoms to choose, however that latter option would flood all the "easy" dungeons during events with the fast players who just want to grab XP and loot and poor new players would never get a dungeon quest done, ever.

sionIV

When it comes to Normal (non DLC) dungeons, I rather have a third DPS than a tank. I don't mind a 'fake' tank, as long as he brings a taunt and some form of self healing, and if he does that, I wouldn't even call him a fake tank.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I just dont use the groupfinder for difficult content, so don't really care what roles people are doing. On the few occasions I have been in a GF Vet DLC with all Randoms, I will certainly vote kick anyone I think is preventing us from advancing after a few wipes, but certainly not before. That is not limited to fake tanks. If I am doing 85% of group DPS, I will vote kick the other DPS because its often the easiest fix.

colossalvoids

To be honest I don't know why I don't vote em myself most of the times. Probably the reason is that either it's pretty low level /skill player which might be lured into it by their streamer of choice or an experienced player with a taunt so I can't complain. After all this years I've myself became fake tank in random normals, maybe not 100% fake as have a taunt and pull also knowing most mechanics so it's probably even more beneficial for the group as boss can go down in a blink of an eye and without any issues to the group.

ForzaRammer

I am a tank main, low output dd often get mad when i lead the charge to kick.

Not only they want a real tank, they want to waste the real tank’s time with their 15k dps.

They also often come in pairs, in that case they would not even leave nicely.

Entitled subpar dd are the plague, they make the game experience worse for real tanks. Which in the long term result in less tanks using group finder.

LuffyGing

I put vote when the fake tank can't pull enough damage, have the lowest health in the group and no taunt.
I believe people often think that fake person do a dps role(which isn't actually) and keep them is faster to finish the dungeon.

TequilaFire

VaranisArano wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Auth3nticGlitch wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

How do you tell the difference between a fake tank and a just a bad tank?
Sometimes we should also kick a bad DPS.

TequilaFire A fake tank most of the time has 20k health and doesn’t taunt any enemies, the important part is does not taunt enemies since in normal dungeons health is not as important. Easy to spot within the first minute of a dungeon if you ask me.

My point is that not all are fake tanks, some are new and don't know the ropes.
So I will never vote to kick unless it is a proven known repeat offender.

In my experience, a bad tank is trying and will listen to direction like "you need to taunt the boss" or "Hey, this is the mechanic."

Fake tanks laugh at that. They have no intention of trying to fulfill their stated role.

In 7 years I have never met one of those, guess I have been lucky.

josiahva

The simple truth is that for the vast majority of 4 man content a real tank is simply not needed. There are of course exceptions to that, but even when it comes to vet DLC dungeons you can get through just fine without a real tank. As long as that is the case, people will continue to fake-tank(and whatever other role) and the rest of the group will continue to not really care.

I main a tank...but each and every patch there is less and less reason to tank. I log on maybe 3 times a week or so now...and even on 90% of the vet DLC dungeons I do I don't even bother to swap to my pure tank setup....I run something that is closer to an off-tank setup where I can deal a little damage unless I look at my percentage of DPS and see it is less than 20%...if its less than 20% then I will go to a full tank setup with more group buffs and less personal damage and 20% is the threshold I have chosen. Don't get me wrong...even as on "off-tank" doing 15-20k I still have 40k+ health and resistances in the 28k range...but the last thing I want as a tank is not to be able to complete a dungeon because the DPS is too low....its pretty boring to be a pure tank when the DPS is abysmal....so you might as well go off-tank.

I think the only vet DLC dungeon that I have to stay as pure tank for 90%+ of the time is vDoM(and vLoM to a lesser degree)...everything else you can pretty much switch back and forth as needed based on what works best against a given boss.

There is one other factor at play here: The only people who truly care about roles in a random group from GF are those who have the idea of roles so deeply ingrained into them that they are unable to think outside the rigid confines of those roles and see that there is plenty of room for overlap into other roles...especially as players become more and more experienced. I look at roles as being vitally important when you are less experienced and almost completely irrelevant outside of specific situations as you become very experienced. I think the best thing they could implement to free up playstyles more right now would to be to enable mid-combat gear swaps...then your character could truly adapt to the fight as it happens...of course, it would be hard to explain in any lore or role-playing way how mid-combat gear swaps could be possible....but it would be a great enhancement to combat. If they did that though, they would have to enable gear and skill swapping like dressing room in-client so everyone could take advantage. Imagine it: fake tank? no big deal, for this particular boss, you just tank it instead. Fake heals? no big deal, have a setup for that. Fake DPS? Not a problem, got a setup for that too...flexibility would become a virtue instead of being frowned upon like it is now.

Auth3nticGlitch

A real fake tank will be CP 1000> and do more DPS than the DD roles, move ahead of the group and just want to get the reward for a random normal dungeon. Oh and they’ll try and skip every part of a dungeon they can. Funny when I was actually tanking I had a DPS doing the tanking totally ruining the experience for me but eh fake roles is what you get with random dungeons. I’ve learned to simply group up with guildies, less waiting time and you know they will play their role properly and it’s generally a much better experience. I don’t ever assume people low level or CP are fake tanks/roles and I always wait for them and ask if they’re doing the quest etc. It’s easy to tell when a fake tank enters the group.

jssriot

I almost never vote to kick anyone. If they slot a taunt and shield or a resto staff and do what that role is suppose to do, OK then. I mostly heal or dps. As a healer I'll dps if needed and kite if needed if the tank isn't good at that dungeon, and as a dps I slot self-heals and a shield. I just want to get the dungeon done without any drama. But boy, some of you all love that drama a little too much and need to chill with the kicking people, esply lower CP people, because YOU think they're "fake." Like, no one cares about your opinion about other players. Just hush and play the game already.

I agree that it is a real problem with people who won't do that bare min and queue up for those roles, probably because other players told them to. Most groups on normal can likely finish without a proper healer but on vet it can be really bad. And I've done too many runs without a proper tank, having the whole group wipe because of an untaunted boss. So it matters. If you are someone who does this--queuing up for a role you haven't the intention or skills/gear slotted to play--you will likely be wasting other players' time and testing their patience, and while I'm not the kind of person who'll demand you get kicked, if you do get kicked, you probably deserved it.

DigiAngel

preevious wrote: »

because DD already waited 20 minutes to get into a dungeon.
Kicking the fake tank would mean wainting for another tank for another 20mins.

Most people prefer to do with the fake tank, and his subpar DPS, while secretly despising and hating him.

And even if he is kicked, he'll just insta queue by fake tanking, and will plague another group with his selfishness.

Does it show I don't like fake tanks on group finder?

Yea this. I have 3 characters, one I converted to a real tank. Takes way too long to get into the daily norm with DD...I'll deal with a fake tank just to get through the thing. Now...Vet? No....although...it's nice to have a challenge some times

WraithShadow13

i gladly vote to kick the fake tanks. My issue isn't with the fake tanking but the %$#@Y attitude they bring to it. If the dps is so high they're steamrolling the entire dungeon? I'm okay with that. If the fank is light attacking a single guy and running off, blocking the rest of the team in the choke points with the rest of the spawns? not cool. A lot of times, that person also is just a toxic player, yelling that they're "carrying the team" when they're not, or that we all need to keep up with them, while they aren't doing anything to make that possible. As a vampire, i might as well just run invisibly through the map and leave the rest of the party behind, then complain that they took to long to get to the boss i couldn't kill on my own. Luckily, only of a few instances, have i had the fank actually have the dps to kill the bosses before the rest of the group even got there, and once they start costing us loot, they gets da boot.

I'll be legitimately curious to see how companions will affect this, as i will be far less inclined to deal with a-hole people when i can set a tank or healer npc. Just look at SWTOR. Those people can be ruthless when it comes to replacing players with NPCs.

The thing that gets me is that tanking isn't fun because of players like that constantly harassing the tank because they took a single hit, so the tanks stop happening. So once that happens, they start fake tanking and it makes the other roles less fun because of their poor and negative attitudes. Then they complain about how hard it is to queue.


i AM surprised just how many people refuse to boot out the fake tankers, yet god forbid you're doing anything less thank 40k damage, in which case they instantly boot you and harass you in whispers, telling you off and how you shouldn't play the game.

Hapexamendios

I can't remember where I saw/heard it, but the best suggestion I think is to take out the chair and sit down for every fight. Let them carry you and make it clear you're doing so. If they complain tell them, "If you're going to fake tank, I'm going to fake the whole run." Might get you kicked, but would be fun to do.

BXR_Lonestar

Honestly, most normal dungeons can be completed with 3/4 DPS, so most people don't care if you fake a healer (or even a tank most times). It only really matters in vet dungeons - in which case, IMO, shouldn't be Pugged (but that is just based on my personal experience).

Goregrinder

It would be nice to kick tank/healers posing as DPS only pulling 10k, but really I'd rather just get the dungeon done and over with then waste time trying to find replacements.