Stamsorc need one martial ultimate at least

CaptainVenom

I wish I could keep as many class skills as possible, but there are no martial (physical, poison, disease, bleed) based ultimates for sorcerer.

C'mon. Magsorc got 6 magical ults (if you include morph options, of course). What about just one martial for stamsorc? Atronach would feel great, since we got lightning for magicka and air/wind for stamina, here's the idea:



Summon Air Atronach: Summon an immobile air atronach at the target location. Its arrival deals [x] Physical Damage and stuns enemies for 3 seconds. The atronach throws wind blades at the closest enemy, dealing [x] Physical Damage every 1 second. An ally near the atronach can activate the Charged Lightning synergy, granting the ally and the atronach Major Berserk, increasing their damage done by 10% for 8 seconds.

Mythreindeer

Agree with Stam morph for Sorc ult. Love my Stamsorcs.

CaptainVenom

Mythreindeer wrote: »

Agree with Stam morph for Sorc ult. Love my Stamsorcs.

Yeah. When I builded my stamsorc, I tried to keep class indentity the best I could. I'm stamsorc, yes, but I'll want to feel Sorcerer.

I really think just one stamina ult morph isn't much to ask: it's actually fair.

Zer0_CooL

Stam negate with a stun.

StamPlar_1976

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Stam AOE negate with a 5 sec stun.

Fixed that for you to make it clear.

CaptainVenom

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Stam negate with a stun.

StamPlar_1976 wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Stam AOE negate with a 5 sec stun.

Fixed that for you to make it clear.

Yes, stuns trash mob and deals insignificant damage or healing because it's magic and not physical, doesn't stun or deal relevant damage to bosses. Silence only magicka players that can roll dodge out of its area and that's it (and guess what? No damage and no silence if your target is a stam character). How can it be more useless for stamsorc?

Let's pretend you guys didn't say anything about this "solution", shall we?
---

NupidStoob

Whole stamsorc identity should be about wind and it has been suggested many times before, but ZoS doesn't care. They have Hurricane as part of a skill line that is literally called "Storm calling" yet it's apart from Hurricane completely about lightning.

The wind atronach idea was even discussed before by ZoS, but somehow never became a thing. Nobody who understands how this game works ever takes the AOE atro anyways.

Many of the older classes really suffer from ZoS only deciding to add stamina versions later on in development and as a result lack identity:

NB = Assassination, pretty good design
DK = Poison, could really be more fleshed out
Plar = Spearfighting/holy lights, could also be more fleshed out
Sorc = Wind as in cutting, not existent apart from Hurricane. But we got sets like Relequen that rely on that fantasy, just that everyone has access to it~

CaptainVenom

NupidStoob wrote: »

The wind atronach idea was even discussed before by ZoS, but somehow never became a thing.

Tha sucks I never thought ZOS considered it. I hope they do so again.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Stam sorc needs a rework for sure. The new crystal weapon bound armaments combo just feels like a Stamblade ripoff of Surprise Attack and Relentless Focus. Wind would definitely be a good theme.

Also, the fact that a good chunk of the Stam DPS are now grinding mages guild for Meteor is some serious nonsense that needs adjusted.

VaranisArano

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Stam negate with a stun.

My only qualm is that it would get stacked with regular Negate by organized raids in Cyrodiil.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

I dunno, my StamSorcs are so strong I seldom drop an Ultimate. The Atronach is fine.

ealdwin

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Also, the fact that a good chunk of the Stam DPS are now grinding mages guild for Meteor is some serious nonsense that needs adjusted.

Wait... What?... Why?

olsborg

I think all the classes ulties, apart from warden and necromancer, needs an overhaul so they all work as well as the new classes for either specs.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

ealdwin wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Also, the fact that a good chunk of the Stam DPS are now grinding mages guild for Meteor is some serious nonsense that needs adjusted.

Wait... What?... Why?

@ealdwin
I am sure it has to do with the CP changes. It has become the new BIS damage ultimate on several stam classes for PVE DPS. Lots of grunting on discord about stam players feeling obligated to either buy a skill line or go through the pain that is the mages guild farm.

I don't pretend to be an expert, but if the mages guild ultimate is the best option for a stam DPS, you have a serious balance issue on your hands. Something aint right, that's for sure.

Seraphayel

Dual Wield is the best option for Magicka DPS to push spell damage as well, so... somethings either wrong here or it indeed is working as intended.

Ekzorka

The both morphs of Storm Atronach are commonly using (I prefer AoE morph for example). Take Overload instead. No need to make angry a mag sorcs.

spartaxoxo

I think it should be the damage morph of negate instead. Give it an animation of a vortex inside of it that whips up shrapnel causing the target to bleed too.

This way it reinforces Negate's usage as an anti-magicka force. I always viewed Stam sorcs as harnessing the forces of nature to enhance natural martial prowess and mag sorcs as summoners personally. I know there is overlap but just in terms of general identity. The one pet being stam was a much later change for example.

tsaescishoeshiner

I think this is less true now than ever before, because the new CP system doesn't divide between martial and magical damage nearly as much, and the weapon damage from medium armor buffs all ults.

I don't think the stam identity needs to only involve martial damage, especially for a class called a sorcerer. It would be nice if there was a higher DPS martial ultimate in weapon and guild skill lines to let any class use a strong martial ult if they want to. Mag has good access to meteor or destro ult, which are both great DPS skills. (Mag also has spell penetration from light armor, so they're more limited to magical ultimates)

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I don't pretend to be an expert, but if the mages guild ultimate is the best option for a stam DPS, you have a serious balance issue on your hands. Something aint right, that's for sure.

I don't see what's wrong with that. Ultimates scale with your strongest stats other than penetration. It's also not true, because the highest DPS stamsorcs are using Greater Storm Atronach right now.

Based on eso-skillbook.com, Rend (Dual Wield ultimate) deals 78% as much base damage as Shooting Star despite costing 84% as much ultimate (if Shooting Star hits just 1 enemy). That doesn't factor in damage bonuses or penetration. But Rend also heals you and requires melee range, so there's pros and cons. But it's not that far off if you want to use a martial ultimate for flavor.

Chilly-McFreeze

Ekzorka wrote: »

The both morphs of Storm Atronach are commonly using (I prefer AoE morph for example). Take Overload instead. No need to make angry a mag sorcs.

Who uses the AoE atro in PvE? And why? There are better alternatives.

Ekzorka

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Who uses the AoE atro in PvE?

People. Are you surprised?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

And why?

Because they can?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

There are better alternatives.

As well as there are wonderful stam ultimates for stam sorcs from non-class skill trees.

Chilly-McFreeze

Ekzorka wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Who uses the AoE atro in PvE?

People. Are you surprised?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

And why?

Because they can?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

There are better alternatives.

As well as there are wonderful stam ultimates for stam sorcs from non-class skill trees.

It's always delightful to see how (i assume) magsorc mains cling to every last toy they have even if it's supbar, just to not share with the stamina part of the class.

Vlad9425

Yeah an atro that deals physical damage would be awesome and it doesn’t even sound like it would be hard to implement so get on it ZOS!

YandereGirlfriend

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Ekzorka wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Who uses the AoE atro in PvE?

People. Are you surprised?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

And why?

Because they can?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

There are better alternatives.

As well as there are wonderful stam ultimates for stam sorcs from non-class skill trees.

It's always delightful to see how (i assume) magsorc mains cling to every last toy they have even if it's supbar, just to not share with the stamina part of the class.

Yes, I remember it well with Crystal Blast.

They've got 90% of all the class skills and 100% of the ultimates but sharing just one useless morph is absolutely inconceivable.

NupidStoob

To shine a bit of light on the current DPS meta:

With the new CPs we lost a lot of direct damage which makes dots indirectly stronger. With enough CP you also easily can slot into magicka CP passives as a stamina DPS and vice versa. Most of the CP choices benefit both magicka and stamina anyways. Hybrid penetration is also a lot easier nowadays. Especially the CPs that give higher chances to apply magical/martial status effect are impactful as they help a lot with poison and burning.

As a result there is this odd stage of hybridization in endgame DPS where some stamina classes will use certain magicka abilities and some magicka classes certain stamina abilities. Not only might certain abilities perform better in this hybrid setting, but it's also usually a big buff to your sustain to run one or two skills that use the other resource. If you are minmaxing then these differences become important otherwise they aren't that massively impactful.


Examples:

Some stamina classes will run meteor as ultimate. It simply hits harder than most physical ultimates, can give a lot of ult back on bigger pulls and can proc burning. Necros benefit the most from using it due to their extra dot damage provided they aren't on Colossus duty. Sorcs still run Atro for single target though as it's arguably the strongest single target ultimate in the game.

Stamina use fire glyphs on their backbar for single target. They often already have access to poison from skills and no access to burning at all so this adds an extra dot to their damage. It is stronger than the old meta berserk enchant for pure single target. Vice versa magicka classes might use a poison glyph on their backbar for pure single target fights for the same reasons.

Since the above is the case some stamina groups might utilize engulfing and encratis for more fire damage.

Magicka Necromancers run the stamina colossus and tether morphs.

Magicka DPS lost a lot of crit and lack of staff expert from CPs makes it now viable to use dual daggers to make up for the lost crit and still outdamage an inferno staff. On some classes a bow is also stronger than a staff as it gives extra crit from the passives. Dual wield also again gives the option of using a flame + poison glyph frontbar and use berserk on backbar.


These are all specific cases that change from class to class and fight to fight and like I said as long as you aren't minmaxing they are hardly impactful, but nonetheless it feels silly.

Athan1

What are you guys even talking about? Ults scale off your highest stats. Also, nerf sorc

Rittings

I agree with this... but to be honest, everytime we see a stam morph appear, it means that there are less choices being granted for our builds and the player...

I honestly believe we should be pushing Zenimax for 4 morphs of every skill... 2 stam, 2 mag... give us REAL choices for our builds!!

Anyron

You can take them all. I am using the most overpowered ultimate in game on both my stam and magsorc. Dawnbreaker. All sorcerer ultimates sucks

CaptainVenom

Athan1 wrote: »

What are you guys even talking about? Ults scale off your highest stats.

It seems that way, yes... However, having a proper martial ult helps a lot. Here's an example:



I managed to get 100k+ damage on that. Magicka ults are nowhere near this high in my stam build.

Septimus_Magna

Best thing is that nobody uses the other morph of Greater Storm Atronach anyway so it would be a perfect fit for the Air Atronach. It would also be nice if the synergy would give you and your 2 closest allies major Beserk for 4 seconds or something.

Chilly-McFreeze

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Best thing is that nobody uses the other morph of Greater Storm Atronach anyway so it would be a perfect fit for the Air Atronach. It would also be nice if the synergy would give you and your 2 closest allies major Beserk for 4 seconds or something.

TBF all Atro morphs should benefit the whole group. With the introduction of Necro's Colossus this became pretty obvious.

Lord_Nikon

So I was looking at adding Shooting Star to a stamina build. My question is how it interacts with penetration values.

First off I guess, does it need penetration, do I need spell pen or physical pen. I guess "Offensive Penetration" would cover it, but as a stam build do ultimates use the highest penetration value or is it locked to spell pen due to it being a mage guild ability?

Also, what would be better to increase the damage of it? Maximising Weapon damage or Stamina?