Dlc in random dungeon, yes or no?

ForzaRammer

Honestly I rather just get rid of the whole random dungeon thing and move reward to pledge.

El_Borracho

Keep dlc in random dungeon

I like the DLC in the random dungeon. Normally run it on my tanks so I don't have to worry about getting a fake tank. Breaks up the monotony of "Direfrost Keep" for the thousandth time.

zvavi

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

Mojmir

Remove dlc from random dungeon

not a fan of the newer ones, they take too long just to get through

El_Borracho

Keep dlc in random dungeon

zvavi wrote: »

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

I would love this. Great suggestion, probably run it over the random non-DLC dungeons if given the option

MerguezMan

Indifferent or no opinion

4th option: give the choice to enable or disable DLC dungeons on random search.

zvavi

MerguezMan wrote: »

4th option: give the choice to enable or disable DLC dungeons on random search.

Counter argument, give us random bonus when queuing for 16 dungeons+, with extra rewards (X2 the XP) if the dungeon you completed is dlc

BejaProphet

Remove dlc from random dungeon

I think I’ve changed my opinion on this over the years. Some days I love lugging random vet DLCs. And some days I just want something that requires less focus. The result is that there are quite a few days my tank is absent from dungeon finder.

That being said you can’t remove random and you can’t remove a good reward incentivizing it. That serves a very important function for game health. The reason I can get a group to a specificdungeon is because others are being bribed to doany dungeon.

Danikat

Indifferent or no opinion

It doesn't bother me because I don't subscribe often and don't buy dungeon DLC so I'm only going to get the Imperial City ones and I assume those aren't the ones people complain about. (I'm surprised to realise that's the only DLC to include a mix of group dungeon and other stuff.)

But given how often I see players complain about it I think it would be reasonable to offer the choice between queuing for DLC dungeons and skipping them.

The tricky part could be how to handle non-subscribers if the rewards were adjusted based on whether or not you're including DLC dungeons. Say for example I buy 1 dungeon DLC, so now my chance of getting those dungeons in a random queue is 2 in 28 (or 1 in 14). That's pretty good odds. Would I still be able to queue up for the version which includes dungeon DLC and get the higher rewards? Or would someone have to own all the dungeon DLC to do that?

Evil_Rurouni

Remove dlc from random dungeon

zvavi wrote: »

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

This.

To be more precice, I'd suggest splitting the two existing Queues into four new queues with increasing rewards:

Normal non-dlc = very low rewards.
Vet non-dlc = low rewards.
Normal dlc = moderate rewards.
Vet dlc = very high rewards.

Competent groups can easily complete 3 vet non-dlc dungeons in the time it takes to run 2 normal dlc dungeons, maybe even 4 or 5 if they get VFG1 tier dungeons.

The location should be random, but not the time investment or the rewards for said time, so split the time sponge dlc dungeons from the quick and dirty non-dlc dungeons and set the rewards appropriately.

Hapexamendios

Keep dlc in random dungeon

All dungeons available to all who are eligible

Starlight_Whisper

Keep dlc in random dungeon

Eventually... they are super easy. I walked into a dungeon that I used to think was hard and l like I could carry them all.

I main healers and Tanks

Flamebait

Remove dlc from random dungeon

There are plenty of times when people simply do not have the time to run DLC dungeons if that is what they get as a random. I have seen DLC dungeon runs that can be anywhere between 15 minutes to 2 hours. This is a poor design system and really the base should not be mixed with the DLC. the fact that this is brought up so consistently and that the polls for it are always heavily toward separating them shows it should at least be looked at.

Also this would tend to make things better for everyone, the people in the DLC queue would most likely be people that are mostly capable of completing the dungeons, and have a desire to do so. As it is no there are a large group that simply cannot do them, or simply have no desire to bother.

iksde

Remove dlc from random dungeon

as I have also moods to really queue for random on vet then it is just for randomness but it is nt to often for me, more often I queue for randoms with willing to complete them fast or even to be able to complete....it just annoys very much when you will get an harder dlc for random along with so bad group you wont e able to do it anyway
if I want dlc dung or "random dlc" then I jsut choose dlc dungs I want to run with awarness I can get also bad groups
but if I want to just complete random dung it is very annyoing to get into this dlc with group unable to do it because it migh be also as random for all of them for whcih they are not ready and didn't want to go anyway

TwinLamps

Remove dlc from random dungeon

On my alt accounts I can queue for easy and fast random dungeon thanks for not being eso+.
On my main account I am punished if I choose to queue by getting team of people that have visible issues to even walk, and we are facing bs like MHK or similar one shot rich environment.
From random dungeon point, eso+ is litteraly pay to lose.

kargen27

Keep dlc in random dungeon

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

This.

To be more precice, I'd suggest splitting the two existing Queues into four new queues with increasing rewards:

Normal non-dlc = very low rewards.
Vet non-dlc = low rewards.
Normal dlc = moderate rewards.
Vet dlc = very high rewards.

Competent groups can easily complete 3 vet non-dlc dungeons in the time it takes to run 2 normal dlc dungeons, maybe even 4 or 5 if they get VFG1 tier dungeons.

The location should be random, but not the time investment or the rewards for said time, so split the time sponge dlc dungeons from the quick and dirty non-dlc dungeons and set the rewards appropriately.

I doubt this will work. Higher rewards will be incentive for players to go with the harder content. You will have players thinking only good players will queue for the hard stuff so I can jump in and they will carry me. We know this will happen just as sure as we know we have fake tanks and healers.
Other problem is wait time. Diluting the player base with four queues means DPS will be waiting a very long time. I think queueing for the very low and very high would be a nightmare of a wait.
Still another problem is the queue is used to fill groups for people doing specific dungeons. Being able to exclude some dungeons gives players wanting a specific dungeon less chance of filling a group.

Random should remain as is. You want the reward for doing a random take your chance on getting any dungeon.

ForzaRammer

Remove dlc from random dungeon

kargen27 wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

This.

To be more precice, I'd suggest splitting the two existing Queues into four new queues with increasing rewards:

Normal non-dlc = very low rewards.
Vet non-dlc = low rewards.
Normal dlc = moderate rewards.
Vet dlc = very high rewards.

Competent groups can easily complete 3 vet non-dlc dungeons in the time it takes to run 2 normal dlc dungeons, maybe even 4 or 5 if they get VFG1 tier dungeons.

The location should be random, but not the time investment or the rewards for said time, so split the time sponge dlc dungeons from the quick and dirty non-dlc dungeons and set the rewards appropriately.

I doubt this will work. Higher rewards will be incentive for players to go with the harder content. You will have players thinking only good players will queue for the hard stuff so I can jump in and they will carry me. We know this will happen just as sure as we know we have fake tanks and healers.
Other problem is wait time. Diluting the player base with four queues means DPS will be waiting a very long time. I think queueing for the very low and very high would be a nightmare of a wait.
Still another problem is the queue is used to fill groups for people doing specific dungeons. Being able to exclude some dungeons gives players wanting a specific dungeon less chance of filling a group.

Random should remain as is. You want the reward for doing a random take your chance on getting any dungeon.

Tanks don’t get extra leverage. Why not give tanks 2 votes so they can kick subpar player from group easier. That’s incentive for people to play tank.

AlnilamE

Keep dlc in random dungeon

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

This.

To be more precice, I'd suggest splitting the two existing Queues into four new queues with increasing rewards:

Normal non-dlc = very low rewards.
Vet non-dlc = low rewards.
Normal dlc = moderate rewards.
Vet dlc = very high rewards.

Competent groups can easily complete 3 vet non-dlc dungeons in the time it takes to run 2 normal dlc dungeons, maybe even 4 or 5 if they get VFG1 tier dungeons.

The location should be random, but not the time investment or the rewards for said time, so split the time sponge dlc dungeons from the quick and dirty non-dlc dungeons and set the rewards appropriately.

There's no normal DLC dungeon that's as hard as vCoAII or vCoH II, so if you think that's the difficulty scale, then group vet non-DLC with normal DLC.

spartaxoxo

Keep dlc in random dungeon

BejaProphet wrote: »

That being said you can’t remove random and you can’t remove a good reward incentivizing it. That serves a very important function for game health. The reason I can get a group to a specificdungeon is because others are being bribed to doany dungeon.

This is the reason I voted keep. I think it's very important to the game's health that people actually be able to the dungeons without needing a guild since they sell the dungeons as standalone content. It's not even like with arenas and trials where you buy other content with your money too. You're paying only for the dungeons so they should create a system where you can get a pug for it. And randoms is that system.

I view those transmutes explicitly as rewards for agreeing to do any content you're both needed in and own the right to do.

phaneub17_ESO

They are the reasons I only sub to ESO+ 1-2 months throughout the entire year, I mostly do it to clear my storage containers when I'm overloaded and need to move to the crafting bag. However because of DLC dungeons its what keeps me away from subbing for any longer. They shouldn't remove it from random dungeons, but add a separate queue between "Random Base Dungeons" and "Random DLC Dungeons" with the latter giving more bonuses for completing it, for both normal and veteran mode.

Kurat

Keep dlc in random dungeon

Splitting queues and giving dlc ones higher rewards won't work. Then I'll just unsub, queue for random dlc and get ICP or WGT every time because that's the only ones I have access. Or buy some other easy ones like RoM and CoS. That would be again unfair to others who have all dlcs. I get better rewards just doing the easy dlc dungeons over and over while others risk getting LoM or MHK.
Just leave as is [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Evil_Rurouni

Remove dlc from random dungeon

AlnilamE wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

This.

To be more precice, I'd suggest splitting the two existing Queues into four new queues with increasing rewards:

Normal non-dlc = very low rewards.
Vet non-dlc = low rewards.
Normal dlc = moderate rewards.
Vet dlc = very high rewards.

Competent groups can easily complete 3 vet non-dlc dungeons in the time it takes to run 2 normal dlc dungeons, maybe even 4 or 5 if they get VFG1 tier dungeons.

The location should be random, but not the time investment or the rewards for said time, so split the time sponge dlc dungeons from the quick and dirty non-dlc dungeons and set the rewards appropriately.

There's no normal DLC dungeon that's as hard as vCoAII or vCoH II, so if you think that's the difficulty scale, then group vet non-DLC with normal DLC.

I didn't say a single word about difficulty.
I said TIME INVESTMENT.

DLC dungeon maps are way larger than almost all base game ones.
A higher minimum time to complete the dungeon should equal more rewards in total, if only to keep the potential rewards per hour at least somewhat balanced.

The alternative is to continue having a significantly large portion of queued players quit every time they get a footslog map because they either don't have enouth time to run it or it just isn't worth their time, both of which just creates half abandoned groups that clog up the queue.

I'll grant you that CoH2 is abnormally long by base game standards, and roughly at DLC map size.
Still, its just a lone outlier.
CoH2 is fine.

BejaProphet

Remove dlc from random dungeon

Kurat wrote: »

Splitting queues and giving dlc ones higher rewards won't work. Then I'll just unsub, queue for random dlc and get ICP or WGT every time because that's the only ones I have access. Or buy some other easy ones like RoM and CoS. That would be again unfair to others who have all dlcs. I get better rewards just doing the easy dlc dungeons over and over while others risk getting LoM or MHK.
Just leave as is [snip]

That’s a pretty darn good point.

Kurat

Keep dlc in random dungeon

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

This.

To be more precice, I'd suggest splitting the two existing Queues into four new queues with increasing rewards:

Normal non-dlc = very low rewards.
Vet non-dlc = low rewards.
Normal dlc = moderate rewards.
Vet dlc = very high rewards.

Competent groups can easily complete 3 vet non-dlc dungeons in the time it takes to run 2 normal dlc dungeons, maybe even 4 or 5 if they get VFG1 tier dungeons.

The location should be random, but not the time investment or the rewards for said time, so split the time sponge dlc dungeons from the quick and dirty non-dlc dungeons and set the rewards appropriately.

There's no normal DLC dungeon that's as hard as vCoAII or vCoH II, so if you think that's the difficulty scale, then group vet non-DLC with normal DLC.

I didn't say a single word about difficulty.
I said TIME INVESTMENT.

DLC dungeon maps are way larger than almost all base game ones.
A higher minimum time to complete the dungeon should equal more rewards in total, if only to keep the potential rewards per hour at least somewhat balanced.

The alternative is to continue having a significantly large portion of queued players quit every time they get a footslog map because they either don't have enouth time to run it or it just isn't worth their time, both of which just creates half abandoned groups that clog up the queue.

I'll grant you that CoH2 is abnormally long by base game standards, and roughly at DLC map size.
Still, its just a lone outlier.
CoH2 is fine.

Seems like l2p issue. Most vet dlcs have speed run achievements for 30min and are not difficult do get with even average group. And if vets are done in less than 30min then you should be able to finish normals in 15.
Most normals can also easily be soloed.

Evil_Rurouni

Remove dlc from random dungeon

Kurat wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

This.

To be more precice, I'd suggest splitting the two existing Queues into four new queues with increasing rewards:

Normal non-dlc = very low rewards.
Vet non-dlc = low rewards.
Normal dlc = moderate rewards.
Vet dlc = very high rewards.

Competent groups can easily complete 3 vet non-dlc dungeons in the time it takes to run 2 normal dlc dungeons, maybe even 4 or 5 if they get VFG1 tier dungeons.

The location should be random, but not the time investment or the rewards for said time, so split the time sponge dlc dungeons from the quick and dirty non-dlc dungeons and set the rewards appropriately.

There's no normal DLC dungeon that's as hard as vCoAII or vCoH II, so if you think that's the difficulty scale, then group vet non-DLC with normal DLC.

I didn't say a single word about difficulty.
I said TIME INVESTMENT.

DLC dungeon maps are way larger than almost all base game ones.
A higher minimum time to complete the dungeon should equal more rewards in total, if only to keep the potential rewards per hour at least somewhat balanced.

The alternative is to continue having a significantly large portion of queued players quit every time they get a footslog map because they either don't have enouth time to run it or it just isn't worth their time, both of which just creates half abandoned groups that clog up the queue.

I'll grant you that CoH2 is abnormally long by base game standards, and roughly at DLC map size.
Still, its just a lone outlier.
CoH2 is fine.

Seems like l2p issue. Most vet dlcs have speed run achievements for 30min and are not difficult do get with even average group. And if vets are done in less than 30min then you should be able to finish normals in 15.
Most normals can also easily be soloed.

I'm quite aware of the speed run achievements.
Got my Akatosh's scales gold dye for doing 'em before most people here even started playing ESO.
Back when there were only 7 non-dlc vet dungeons, and VWGT and VICP were the only DLC's.

That the non-dlc dungeons can be speedrun in a matter of minutes while DLC's tend to require half an hour or more is WHY I think base game should give low rewards while DLC's should be both seperate and highly funded with rewards for randoms.

Sounds like a L2R issue.

Flamebait

Remove dlc from random dungeon

Kurat wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Give us dlc only random queue, with better rewards.

This.

To be more precice, I'd suggest splitting the two existing Queues into four new queues with increasing rewards:

Normal non-dlc = very low rewards.
Vet non-dlc = low rewards.
Normal dlc = moderate rewards.
Vet dlc = very high rewards.

Competent groups can easily complete 3 vet non-dlc dungeons in the time it takes to run 2 normal dlc dungeons, maybe even 4 or 5 if they get VFG1 tier dungeons.

The location should be random, but not the time investment or the rewards for said time, so split the time sponge dlc dungeons from the quick and dirty non-dlc dungeons and set the rewards appropriately.

There's no normal DLC dungeon that's as hard as vCoAII or vCoH II, so if you think that's the difficulty scale, then group vet non-DLC with normal DLC.

I didn't say a single word about difficulty.
I said TIME INVESTMENT.

DLC dungeon maps are way larger than almost all base game ones.
A higher minimum time to complete the dungeon should equal more rewards in total, if only to keep the potential rewards per hour at least somewhat balanced.

The alternative is to continue having a significantly large portion of queued players quit every time they get a footslog map because they either don't have enouth time to run it or it just isn't worth their time, both of which just creates half abandoned groups that clog up the queue.

I'll grant you that CoH2 is abnormally long by base game standards, and roughly at DLC map size.
Still, its just a lone outlier.
CoH2 is fine.

Seems like l2p issue. Most vet dlcs have speed run achievements for 30min and are not difficult do get with even average group. And if vets are done in less than 30min then you should be able to finish normals in 15.
Most normals can also easily be soloed.

Okay so what your saying is that you are leet everyone else sucks, so we should all just bow to your wisdom and do what you think we are supposed to do so we can all have fun the same way you know we should be. Honestly once you sit there saying LTP to everyone you have shut down your own argument as you are being a piece of trash to the large majority that disagree with you because a lot of the people that play this game do not solo LoM, Icereach, Moonfang or anything else in the DLC lineup. You might be a good player/person, or a terrible one I don't know you, but honestly looking at the fact you do so much bragging about how you are 80% of the DPS when you run a vet dungeon and how you do vet trials where you are more than 20% of the DPS all by yourself and stuff you come off as nothing but a *** and that kind of makes it hard to convince anyone of the validity of any arguments you make. Secondly it makes you appear highly elitist and that ensures more than the first reason that the majority will simply ignore or shrug off everything you say.

heartburnkid

Remove dlc from random dungeon

For me it’s a matter of time. I have limited time to play and 7 toons to run a daily on. Give me fungal grotto 1 every day all day and I am gtg. I say extra rewards for people that want dlc dungeons, I’d be one of them on my one day a week off work.

ccfeeling

Remove dlc from random dungeon

TBH , most of the players are not ready for DLC dungeons , especially the low CP .
When I pug in SCP , LOM , MG or related level DLC , we got a 200ish CP tank , I knew we won't make it , but I won't say anything and give it a try , 90% failed at the end .

Vet players and well prepared low CP players will que the DLC dungeons they like .

AllegedParadigm

Remove dlc from random dungeon

I personally feel like DLC dungeons can be quite punishing with dungeon finder groups. I don't mind trying something new, but in my experience it goes one of a few ways.
1. You all load in and someone leaves right away
2. You're all completely fine
3. Your group struggles with mechanics (and that itself can either go in the way of helpfulness or toxicity)

Kurat

Keep dlc in random dungeon

People who keep avoiding dlc dungeons and only do FG1 over and over will never get better. I agree that dlc ones are more difficult and time consuming but once you learn the mechanics and improve then they are no different from base ones. Some base game ones like CoA2 can actually take longer than some dlcs. So what next, we ask to #2 dungeons to be removed as well?
And I'm not an elitist. I just dont get the argument about not having time. If you dont have 15-20 minutes to play then why even queue at all. Come back later when you have more time. To me, the idea of a game is to have fun, I play because I like it. But for some in this thread it seems like work, "I wanna get it over with quick so I can go home "

BejaProphet

Remove dlc from random dungeon

There is a difference in saying that a vet DLC dungeon can be done in 30 minutes, and saying that you can count on the dungeon finder to give you such a group.

But then, I’m a tank. So I don’t bring the DPS with me.