Streak

dachanchanman1

why is it okay to remove the stun from nightblade ambush but keep sorc streak stun?

Vevvev

For the same reason they got rid of stun on frags, Vampiric Drain, and old Stone Giant... "balance".

Vermintide

Entire dev team are sorc mains.

Firstmep

Same reason they removed the stun from both morph of spear shards.

universal_wrath

Same reason they remove the stun from destructive reach.

tsaescishoeshiner

dachanchanman1 wrote: »

why is it okay to remove the stun from nightblade ambush but keep sorc streak stun?

Nightblades get a stun on their melee spammable. And sorcs use both morphs of Bolt Escape, so Streak isn't necessarily overpowered. It's expensive, deals little damage, can be tricky to aim, and puts you out of place. It's also one of the most unique skills to the sorcerer class. I play both as a sorc and as non-sorcs, and if sorcs are overpowered, it's not just from this one skill, but a mix of everything in their toolkit. Streak doesn't give sorcs the burst damage to kill you, or the magicka recovery to shield stack.

Streak would probably still be useful without the stun, but I'm not sure what the stun should be replaced with.

Starlight_Whisper

Vermintide wrote: »

Entire dev team are sorc mains.

Strange cause I thought they were nightblade mains.

master_vanargand

Sorcerer has Rune Prison.
Rune Prison is a stun that cannot be blocked.

Long long ago, there used to be an update to prevent class skills from giving the same effect, right?

Now is the time to remove stun from Streak.

Seraphayel

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

relentless_turnip

master_vanargand wrote: »

Sorcerer has Rune Prison.
Rune Prison is a stun that cannot be blocked.

Long long ago, there used to be an update to prevent class skills from giving the same effect, right?

Now is the time to remove stun from Streak.

It can be roll dodged

relentless_turnip

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

No one cared about Streak until stats got a boost and sorc got a buff. Stamsorcs are in a good place for once... Magsorcs are top tier, but not unbeatable by any means. Slot a gap closer, it will change your life.

Arctic does too much, but Streak already has loads of restrictions limiting its use. No change needed to streak IMO.

Joy_Division

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

Probably because a short range teleport, "Bolt Escape", that did not temporarily incapacitate an enemy would be worthless as a means of escape.

Tommy_The_Gun

dachanchanman1 wrote: »

why is it okay to remove the stun from nightblade ambush but keep sorc streak stun?

Necromancer class is the answer.

NB received too many unnecessary nerfs in Elswey update, simply because ZOS wanted to push the sales of new class. NB is a base game class that unfortunately happened to be the most similar in terms of class "theme". You know, blood magick, vampiric - like skills, summoning dark spirits etc. ZOS did not wanted to make necro too OP (they actually did it anyway lol), so they nerfed most similar base game class and while they were at it, they essentially removed all the uniqueness NB had as a class, either with class skill nerfs or by buffing no-class skills, so other classes can basically be a NB, but better.

Very similar thing happened in Morrowind update to Templar class, as Morrowind Introduced Warden. But the difference is that a lot of time has passed and Templar class kinda recovered since then. Also, Templar nerfs back in Morrowind were not as severe as what NB got in Elsweyr.

NB has not recovered since. And the no-proc meta is only temporary, So I would imagine that NB will go to bottom in tier list again with new Chapter (it is when procs will be re-enabled).

Hegron wrote: »

dachanchanman1 wrote: »

why is it okay to remove the stun from nightblade ambush but keep sorc streak stun?

[Quoted post was removed]

Well, Mag NB is in a very bad state. Probably worst mag class and maybe even worst class in ESO. Stam is in a better spot, but as I mentioned, it is only temporary. Once Proc sets will be back with next update, stam nb will go down in the tier list.

Seraphayel

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

No one cared about Streak until stats got a boost and sorc got a buff. Stamsorcs are in a good place for once... Magsorcs are top tier, but not unbeatable by any means. Slot a gap closer, it will change your life.

Arctic does too much, but Streak already has loads of restrictions limiting its use. No change needed to streak IMO.

Streak in PvP is pretty much OP since the launch of the game in 2014. It was slightly nerfed over time, but it’s still a very, very powerful skill.

What kinds of restrictions has Streak besides the ramp up cost?

Joy_Division wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

Probably because a short range teleport, "Bolt Escape", that did not temporarily incapacitate an enemy would be worthless as a means of escape.

If you want to escape you usually do not teleport through your opponent, you teleport away from it. At least when you care about increasing distance between you and your enemy.

Chilly-McFreeze

Seraphayel wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

No one cared about Streak until stats got a boost and sorc got a buff. Stamsorcs are in a good place for once... Magsorcs are top tier, but not unbeatable by any means. Slot a gap closer, it will change your life.

Arctic does too much, but Streak already has loads of restrictions limiting its use. No change needed to streak IMO.

Streak in PvP is pretty much OP since the launch of the game in 2014. It was slightly nerfed over time, but it’s still a very, very powerful skill.

What kinds of restrictions has Streak besides the ramp up cost?

Joy_Division wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

Probably because a short range teleport, "Bolt Escape", that did not temporarily incapacitate an enemy would be worthless as a means of escape.

If you want to escape you usually do not teleport through your opponent, you teleport away from it. At least when you care about increasing distance between you and your enemy.

Serious question: do you even play a sorc in pvp?

Seraphayel

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

No one cared about Streak until stats got a boost and sorc got a buff. Stamsorcs are in a good place for once... Magsorcs are top tier, but not unbeatable by any means. Slot a gap closer, it will change your life.

Arctic does too much, but Streak already has loads of restrictions limiting its use. No change needed to streak IMO.

Streak in PvP is pretty much OP since the launch of the game in 2014. It was slightly nerfed over time, but it’s still a very, very powerful skill.

What kinds of restrictions has Streak besides the ramp up cost?

Joy_Division wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

Probably because a short range teleport, "Bolt Escape", that did not temporarily incapacitate an enemy would be worthless as a means of escape.

If you want to escape you usually do not teleport through your opponent, you teleport away from it. At least when you care about increasing distance between you and your enemy.

Serious question: do you even play a sorc in pvp?

Why is that relevant regarding the things I’ve stated in my initial post?

A lot of skill of other classes have been nerfed to the ground so that they only have one or at most two functions at the same time. Streak is one of those skills were this hasn’t been applied, the most infamous example is Arctic Blast, which I mentioned as well.

I know PvP Sorcs are very sensitive when anyone mentions slight adjustments or imbalances regarding their toolkit, but it doesn’t change the content of my initial post of overloaded skills vs. skills that were once overloaded and have been brought in line.

relentless_turnip

Seraphayel wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

No one cared about Streak until stats got a boost and sorc got a buff. Stamsorcs are in a good place for once... Magsorcs are top tier, but not unbeatable by any means. Slot a gap closer, it will change your life.

Arctic does too much, but Streak already has loads of restrictions limiting its use. No change needed to streak IMO.

Streak in PvP is pretty much OP since the launch of the game in 2014. It was slightly nerfed over time, but it’s still a very, very powerful skill.

What kinds of restrictions has Streak besides the ramp up cost?

Joy_Division wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Streak is the same as Arctic Blast, dealing too much things at once.

It’s a teleport, it’s a damage skill and it’s a stun on top of that and it’s just too much. It’s not as overloaded as Arctic Blast (Heal, HoT, damage, chill and stun), but it comes close.

For every other class they just removed or nerfed the skills that did too much at the same time. For Streak and especially Arctic Blast this is not the case, which is pretty stunning if you ask me.

Probably because a short range teleport, "Bolt Escape", that did not temporarily incapacitate an enemy would be worthless as a means of escape.

If you want to escape you usually do not teleport through your opponent, you teleport away from it. At least when you care about increasing distance between you and your enemy.

The scaling cost is the restriction... Not many stamsorcs could do it more than 3 times in a row. Obviously magsorc can do it a lot more. As an escape tool it's totally negated by gap closer. With the benefits to being cc immune often your opponent does you a favour by stunning you 😂
Turn evil is also an unblockable aoe stun. Besides it is a unique skill to the class and has been adjusted many times. It is just the meta ATM, every other complaint thread is about sorcs, because they thrive in a stat based meta. I hadn't read many other complaint threads prior to this patch since the last meta they were great in. Which was probably elsweyr? Any complaints about magsorc may also lead to unfair adjustments to stamsorc.

BOL is actually much more overloaded, but because it's defensive noone cares.

Chilly-McFreeze

So you haven't.

It is relevant because you would lack half of the experience you need to completely judge a skill. You not only need to be on the recieving end but also use it yourself to fully understand the pros and cons of X, Y and Z in general.
It's always easy to say [snip] when you never tried to pull it off by yourself and see what it actually takes to do so. Call it being unbiased if you wish. Also it's unpractical to judge skills in a vacuum.

Point b: [snip] Many skills where multifunctional until some special someones began to take issue with it because their favorite class didn't have the exact same toy. Ignoring the weaknessess of the other class out of clouded judgement. Bias, again.

[snip] tell me how well your streak get's you out of range, how much damage it does, how long you can sustain streaking on a stamsorc, which other stuns you would use against permadodgers or health tanks and especially how well this class works outside of once in a game's life no-proc period.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Seraphayel

So you’re telling me Sorc is only strong in the no proc meta? It’s not like (Mag)Sorc has been the most overperforming class since the launch of the game in PvP. The dominance of Stamina is another point, but that’s not class related.

I wasn’t even debating for Streak to get nerfed, I just said that ZOS nerfed skills and removed additional functions but somehow forgot Steak, Arctic Blast and few others. There’s no reason why Templar‘s, DK‘s and Nightblade‘s toolkit has been gutted so Sorc, Warden and Necromancer can keep their overloaded skills.

master_vanargand

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So you haven't.

It is relevant because you would lack half of the experience you need to completely judge a skill. You not only need to be on the recieving end but also use it yourself to fully understand the pros and cons of X, Y and Z in general.
It's always easy to say [snip] when you never tried to pull it off by yourself and see what it actually takes to do so. Call it being unbiased if you wish. Also it's unpractical to judge skills in a vacuum.

Point b: [snip] Many skills where multifunctional until some special someones began to take issue with it because their favorite class didn't have the exact same toy. Ignoring the weaknessess of the other class out of clouded judgement. Bias, again.

[snip] tell me how well your streak get's you out of range, how much damage it does, how long you can sustain streaking on a stamsorc, which other stuns you would use against permadodgers or health tanks and especially how well this class works outside of once in a game's life no-proc period.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

The disadvantages of increasing the cost of Streak are negligible.
No one can catch up with three Streak.
And Sorc can escape with eternal Streak using with the Dark Exchange.

Chilly-McFreeze

Seraphayel wrote: »

So you’re telling me Sorc is only strong in the no proc meta?

No, I'm saying that magsorc is stronger in the current stat-meta than in the proc-meta. Respectively that other classes feel the no-proc thingy more than magsorcs do.
That's just how the game works. Some classes work better in certain environments. Be it no-proc or no-cp and etc.
Mind that no-proc cyrodiil is kinda done with the upcoming patch.

It’s not like (Mag)Sorc has been the most overperforming class since the launch of the game in PvP. The dominance of Stamina is another point, but that’s not class related.

StamDen/Cro are more of a beast than magsorc is. At least I'm having more of an issue fighting them than mS.
Isn't it that mS is the only mag class that can compete with the stam meta in general? So I don't really see the fuss about mS being strong.

I wasn’t even debating for Streak to get nerfed, I just said that ZOS nerfed skills and removed additional functions but somehow forgot Steak, Arctic Blast and few others. There’s no reason why Templar‘s, DK‘s and Nightblade‘s toolkit has been gutted so Sorc, Warden and Necromancer can keep their overloaded skills.

The bolded part is the gist of the issue (even tho I agree with Tommy_the_gun's statement on them havingrecovered, there was a patch where magplars performed exceedingly well).

Instead of complaining about magsorcs keeping up with stams AND complaining about stams being better than the other 5 mag classes, it would be more productive to suggest buffs to mag builds. Except you find that magblades should be the goldstandard that every other class should be brought "up" to.

Now to reiterate. It's always easy to say something overperforms if you're only ever on the recieving end. Go play one and you see that the not everything shiny is made of gold.
And I think that every class should have interesting, maybe even "overloaded" skills from which they pull their power from. Be it streak, cloak, wings or whatever. Bringing everything "in line" only makes classes stale.

Chilly-McFreeze

master_vanargand wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So you haven't.

It is relevant because you would lack half of the experience you need to completely judge a skill. You not only need to be on the recieving end but also use it yourself to fully understand the pros and cons of X, Y and Z in general.
It's always easy to say [snip] when you never tried to pull it off by yourself and see what it actually takes to do so. Call it being unbiased if you wish. Also it's unpractical to judge skills in a vacuum.

Point b: [snip] Many skills where multifunctional until some special someones began to take issue with it because their favorite class didn't have the exact same toy. Ignoring the weaknessess of the other class out of clouded judgement. Bias, again.

[snip] tell me how well your streak get's you out of range, how much damage it does, how long you can sustain streaking on a stamsorc, which other stuns you would use against permadodgers or health tanks and especially how well this class works outside of once in a game's life no-proc period.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

The disadvantages of increasing the cost of Streak are negligible.
No one can catch up with three Streak.
And Sorc can escape with eternal Streak using with the Dark Exchange.

Then maybe you should use a gapcloser. And not a single one of them has ramping up costs. Streak also won't prevent ranged damage. BoL does.
BTW stamsorcs exist too. Do you even know what 3 streaks costs in total?

relentless_turnip

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

So you’re telling me Sorc is only strong in the no proc meta?

No, I'm saying that magsorc is stronger in the current stat-meta than in the proc-meta. Respectively that other classes feel the no-proc thingy more than magsorcs do.
That's just how the game works. Some classes work better in certain environments. Be it no-proc or no-cp and etc.
Mind that no-proc cyrodiil is kinda done with the upcoming patch.

It’s not like (Mag)Sorc has been the most overperforming class since the launch of the game in PvP. The dominance of Stamina is another point, but that’s not class related.

StamDen/Cro are more of a beast than magsorc is. At least I'm having more of an issue fighting them than mS.
Isn't it that mS is the only mag class that can compete with the stam meta in general? So I don't really see the fuss about mS being strong.

I wasn’t even debating for Streak to get nerfed, I just said that ZOS nerfed skills and removed additional functions but somehow forgot Steak, Arctic Blast and few others. There’s no reason why Templar‘s, DK‘s and Nightblade‘s toolkit has been gutted so Sorc, Warden and Necromancer can keep their overloaded skills.

The bolded part is the gist of the issue (even tho I agree with Tommy_the_gun's statement on them havingrecovered, there was a patch where magplars performed exceedingly well).

Instead of complaining about magsorcs keeping up with stams AND complaining about stams being better than the other 5 mag classes, it would be more productive to suggest buffs to mag builds. Except you find that magblades should be the goldstandard that every other class should be brought "up" to.

Now to reiterate. It's always easy to say something overperforms if you're only ever on the recieving end. Go play one and you see that the not everything shiny is made of gold.
And I think that every class should have interesting, maybe even "overloaded" skills from which they pull their power from. Be it streak, cloak, wings or whatever. Bringing everything "in line" only makes classes stale.

Totally agree. Stamcros and especially stamdens are far worse to deal with. Magsorc is just strong in this meta and not even as strong as the the 2 I just mentioned. It seems strange that the focus is on streak, this is just the skill that makes them annoying to fight. The burst they are capable of is what is actually killing people.

master_vanargand

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So you haven't.

It is relevant because you would lack half of the experience you need to completely judge a skill. You not only need to be on the recieving end but also use it yourself to fully understand the pros and cons of X, Y and Z in general.
It's always easy to say [snip] when you never tried to pull it off by yourself and see what it actually takes to do so. Call it being unbiased if you wish. Also it's unpractical to judge skills in a vacuum.

Point b: [snip] Many skills where multifunctional until some special someones began to take issue with it because their favorite class didn't have the exact same toy. Ignoring the weaknessess of the other class out of clouded judgement. Bias, again.

[snip] tell me how well your streak get's you out of range, how much damage it does, how long you can sustain streaking on a stamsorc, which other stuns you would use against permadodgers or health tanks and especially how well this class works outside of once in a game's life no-proc period.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

The disadvantages of increasing the cost of Streak are negligible.
No one can catch up with three Streak.
And Sorc can escape with eternal Streak using with the Dark Exchange.

Then maybe you should use a gapcloser. And not a single one of them has ramping up costs. Streak also won't prevent ranged damage. BoL does.
BTW stamsorcs exist too. Do you even know what 3 streaks costs in total?

Streak is stun skill.
And after stun, use break free and target Sorc and use the skill.
In the meantime, Sorc uses Streak many times to move far away.
Do you know that the gap closer has a range of 22m?

Chilly-McFreeze

master_vanargand wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So you haven't.

It is relevant because you would lack half of the experience you need to completely judge a skill. You not only need to be on the recieving end but also use it yourself to fully understand the pros and cons of X, Y and Z in general.
It's always easy to say [snip] when you never tried to pull it off by yourself and see what it actually takes to do so. Call it being unbiased if you wish. Also it's unpractical to judge skills in a vacuum.

Point b: [snip] Many skills where multifunctional until some special someones began to take issue with it because their favorite class didn't have the exact same toy. Ignoring the weaknessess of the other class out of clouded judgement. Bias, again.

[snip] tell me how well your streak get's you out of range, how much damage it does, how long you can sustain streaking on a stamsorc, which other stuns you would use against permadodgers or health tanks and especially how well this class works outside of once in a game's life no-proc period.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

The disadvantages of increasing the cost of Streak are negligible.
No one can catch up with three Streak.
And Sorc can escape with eternal Streak using with the Dark Exchange.

Then maybe you should use a gapcloser. And not a single one of them has ramping up costs. Streak also won't prevent ranged damage. BoL does.
BTW stamsorcs exist too. Do you even know what 3 streaks costs in total?

Streak is stun skill.
And after stun, use break free and target Sorc and use the skill.
In the meantime, Sorc uses Streak many times to move far away.
Do you know that the gap closer has a range of 22m?

Well, if he succesfully streaks/ cloaks+shades away, he did it ideally, so be it. That's what the skill is there for, isn't it?

On the other hand, sorcs usually don't escape when they aren't pressured. If you aren't cc immune during your pressure phase or burst combo, than the counter play is warranted. Besides that handing out cc immunity, which can be coupled to some amazing buffs nowadays, without following kill combo isn't exactly something to write home about.

And finally, most of the times you aren't dueling in cyro. So that isn't the type of fight that things gets balanced around. Someone else can still jump in. For group situations I want to get away from I'd 100% of the time would choose Ball of Lightning.

E: 22m is still longer than streak. I rarely have issues with someone sorc streaking away. Especially if he drags around some pets that usually stay behind as anchor points for my gap closers.

Seraphayel

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

So you’re telling me Sorc is only strong in the no proc meta?

No, I'm saying that magsorc is stronger in the current stat-meta than in the proc-meta. Respectively that other classes feel the no-proc thingy more than magsorcs do.
That's just how the game works. Some classes work better in certain environments. Be it no-proc or no-cp and etc.
Mind that no-proc cyrodiil is kinda done with the upcoming patch.

It’s not like (Mag)Sorc has been the most overperforming class since the launch of the game in PvP. The dominance of Stamina is another point, but that’s not class related.

StamDen/Cro are more of a beast than magsorc is. At least I'm having more of an issue fighting them than mS.
Isn't it that mS is the only mag class that can compete with the stam meta in general? So I don't really see the fuss about mS being strong.

I wasn’t even debating for Streak to get nerfed, I just said that ZOS nerfed skills and removed additional functions but somehow forgot Steak, Arctic Blast and few others. There’s no reason why Templar‘s, DK‘s and Nightblade‘s toolkit has been gutted so Sorc, Warden and Necromancer can keep their overloaded skills.

The bolded part is the gist of the issue (even tho I agree with Tommy_the_gun's statement on them havingrecovered, there was a patch where magplars performed exceedingly well).

Instead of complaining about magsorcs keeping up with stams AND complaining about stams being better than the other 5 mag classes, it would be more productive to suggest buffs to mag builds. Except you find that magblades should be the goldstandard that every other class should be brought "up" to.

Now to reiterate. It's always easy to say something overperforms if you're only ever on the recieving end. Go play one and you see that the not everything shiny is made of gold.
And I think that every class should have interesting, maybe even "overloaded" skills from which they pull their power from. Be it streak, cloak, wings or whatever. Bringing everything "in line" only makes classes stale.

Totally agree. Stamcros and especially stamdens are far worse to deal with. Magsorc is just strong in this meta and not even as strong as the the 2 I just mentioned. It seems strange that the focus is on streak, this is just the skill that makes them annoying to fight. The burst they are capable of is what is actually killing people.

Come on. Magsorc was very strong in the proc meta, but there were more counters to them. Magsorc is even stronger in no proc meta because many (Magicka) builds don’t have any effective counters.

I‘m usually a fan of buffing underperforming specs instead of nerfing overperforming ones. I didn’t even ask for nerfs right away. I just said that Streak is one of those very powerful jack of all trades skill that all classes had but most classes lost.

Nobody is debating against Stamcro or Stamden not being super powerful as well. They are because Stamina in general is super powerful and the Warden and Necromancer toolkit just boost that even more. But with Magsorc these three specs are the top of the food chain and have been for a looooong time now. Proc or no proc doesn’t matter that much here.

master_vanargand

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So you haven't.

It is relevant because you would lack half of the experience you need to completely judge a skill. You not only need to be on the recieving end but also use it yourself to fully understand the pros and cons of X, Y and Z in general.
It's always easy to say [snip] when you never tried to pull it off by yourself and see what it actually takes to do so. Call it being unbiased if you wish. Also it's unpractical to judge skills in a vacuum.

Point b: [snip] Many skills where multifunctional until some special someones began to take issue with it because their favorite class didn't have the exact same toy. Ignoring the weaknessess of the other class out of clouded judgement. Bias, again.

[snip] tell me how well your streak get's you out of range, how much damage it does, how long you can sustain streaking on a stamsorc, which other stuns you would use against permadodgers or health tanks and especially how well this class works outside of once in a game's life no-proc period.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

The disadvantages of increasing the cost of Streak are negligible.
No one can catch up with three Streak.
And Sorc can escape with eternal Streak using with the Dark Exchange.

Then maybe you should use a gapcloser. And not a single one of them has ramping up costs. Streak also won't prevent ranged damage. BoL does.
BTW stamsorcs exist too. Do you even know what 3 streaks costs in total?

Streak is stun skill.
And after stun, use break free and target Sorc and use the skill.
In the meantime, Sorc uses Streak many times to move far away.
Do you know that the gap closer has a range of 22m?

Well, if he succesfully streaks/ cloaks+shades away, he did it ideally, so be it. That's what the skill is there for, isn't it?

On the other hand, sorcs usually don't escape when they aren't pressured. If you aren't cc immune during your pressure phase or burst combo, than the counter play is warranted. Besides that handing out cc immunity, which can be coupled to some amazing buffs nowadays, without following kill combo isn't exactly something to write home about.

And finally, most of the times you aren't dueling in cyro. So that isn't the type of fight that things gets balanced around. Someone else can still jump in. For group situations I want to get away from I'd 100% of the time would choose Ball of Lightning.

E: 22m is still longer than streak. I rarely have issues with someone sorc streaking away. Especially if he drags around some pets that usually stay behind as anchor points for my gap closers.

After stun to enemy player, Sorc uses a second streak to travel a distance of 30m(15m + 15m).

Sorc: Streak(15m) + Streak(15m) * many = 30m+
Enemy Player: Stun(0m) + break free(0m) + target Sorc(0m) = 0m

The 22m gap closer cannot be used.

Chilly-McFreeze

master_vanargand wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So you haven't.

It is relevant because you would lack half of the experience you need to completely judge a skill. You not only need to be on the recieving end but also use it yourself to fully understand the pros and cons of X, Y and Z in general.
It's always easy to say [snip] when you never tried to pull it off by yourself and see what it actually takes to do so. Call it being unbiased if you wish. Also it's unpractical to judge skills in a vacuum.

Point b: [snip] Many skills where multifunctional until some special someones began to take issue with it because their favorite class didn't have the exact same toy. Ignoring the weaknessess of the other class out of clouded judgement. Bias, again.

[snip] tell me how well your streak get's you out of range, how much damage it does, how long you can sustain streaking on a stamsorc, which other stuns you would use against permadodgers or health tanks and especially how well this class works outside of once in a game's life no-proc period.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

The disadvantages of increasing the cost of Streak are negligible.
No one can catch up with three Streak.
And Sorc can escape with eternal Streak using with the Dark Exchange.

Then maybe you should use a gapcloser. And not a single one of them has ramping up costs. Streak also won't prevent ranged damage. BoL does.
BTW stamsorcs exist too. Do you even know what 3 streaks costs in total?

Streak is stun skill.
And after stun, use break free and target Sorc and use the skill.
In the meantime, Sorc uses Streak many times to move far away.
Do you know that the gap closer has a range of 22m?

Well, if he succesfully streaks/ cloaks+shades away, he did it ideally, so be it. That's what the skill is there for, isn't it?

On the other hand, sorcs usually don't escape when they aren't pressured. If you aren't cc immune during your pressure phase or burst combo, than the counter play is warranted. Besides that handing out cc immunity, which can be coupled to some amazing buffs nowadays, without following kill combo isn't exactly something to write home about.

And finally, most of the times you aren't dueling in cyro. So that isn't the type of fight that things gets balanced around. Someone else can still jump in. For group situations I want to get away from I'd 100% of the time would choose Ball of Lightning.

E: 22m is still longer than streak. I rarely have issues with someone sorc streaking away. Especially if he drags around some pets that usually stay behind as anchor points for my gap closers.

After stun to enemy player, Sorc uses a second streak to travel a distance of 30m(15m + 15m).

Sorc: Streak(15m) + Streak(15m) * many = 30m+
Enemy Player: Stun(0m) + break free(0m) + target Sorc(0m) = 0m

The 22m gap closer cannot be used.

Let me repeat: if you aren't cc immune during your burst phase , the counter play (via getting away) is totally on you.
If he streaks while you're immune you have a chance of catching up. Especially when he drags his lame pets behind.

Sanguinor2

Streak being overloaded isnt a secret. Imo ball of lightning is the bigger offender of the 2 tho.
Said this in another thread and am gonna say it here: Either give all classes overloaded abilities or none. Giving overloaded abilities to 1 half but not the other is asking for balance issues.

relentless_turnip

Seraphayel wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

So you’re telling me Sorc is only strong in the no proc meta?

No, I'm saying that magsorc is stronger in the current stat-meta than in the proc-meta. Respectively that other classes feel the no-proc thingy more than magsorcs do.
That's just how the game works. Some classes work better in certain environments. Be it no-proc or no-cp and etc.
Mind that no-proc cyrodiil is kinda done with the upcoming patch.

It’s not like (Mag)Sorc has been the most overperforming class since the launch of the game in PvP. The dominance of Stamina is another point, but that’s not class related.

StamDen/Cro are more of a beast than magsorc is. At least I'm having more of an issue fighting them than mS.
Isn't it that mS is the only mag class that can compete with the stam meta in general? So I don't really see the fuss about mS being strong.

I wasn’t even debating for Streak to get nerfed, I just said that ZOS nerfed skills and removed additional functions but somehow forgot Steak, Arctic Blast and few others. There’s no reason why Templar‘s, DK‘s and Nightblade‘s toolkit has been gutted so Sorc, Warden and Necromancer can keep their overloaded skills.

The bolded part is the gist of the issue (even tho I agree with Tommy_the_gun's statement on them havingrecovered, there was a patch where magplars performed exceedingly well).

Instead of complaining about magsorcs keeping up with stams AND complaining about stams being better than the other 5 mag classes, it would be more productive to suggest buffs to mag builds. Except you find that magblades should be the goldstandard that every other class should be brought "up" to.

Now to reiterate. It's always easy to say something overperforms if you're only ever on the recieving end. Go play one and you see that the not everything shiny is made of gold.
And I think that every class should have interesting, maybe even "overloaded" skills from which they pull their power from. Be it streak, cloak, wings or whatever. Bringing everything "in line" only makes classes stale.

Totally agree. Stamcros and especially stamdens are far worse to deal with. Magsorc is just strong in this meta and not even as strong as the the 2 I just mentioned. It seems strange that the focus is on streak, this is just the skill that makes them annoying to fight. The burst they are capable of is what is actually killing people.

Come on. Magsorc was very strong in the proc meta, but there were more counters to them. Magsorc is even stronger in no proc meta because many (Magicka) builds don’t have any effective counters.

I‘m usually a fan of buffing underperforming specs instead of nerfing overperforming ones. I didn’t even ask for nerfs right away. I just said that Streak is one of those very powerful jack of all trades skill that all classes had but most classes lost.

Nobody is debating against Stamcro or Stamden not being super powerful as well. They are because Stamina in general is super powerful and the Warden and Necromancer toolkit just boost that even more. But with Magsorc these three specs are the top of the food chain and have been for a looooong time now. Proc or no proc doesn’t matter that much here.

I don't even have a magsorc and I have no issue with them. You Los at range and gap close between their burst combo. Where as stamdens and stamcros on a good player are unkillable solo.

Honestly this is a l2p issue, without meaning to sound condescending. It can easily be overcome though.

Ingroll

Serious? Discussion one skill out of class context?