heavy armor is not nerfed enough

Renegader

Hi, heavy armor is still way stronger than medium and light on both stamina and magicka (necromancer and nb may get away in medium because of NBs mitigation via cloak, and necromancers passive mitigation from its toolkit) However my stamina dk, and majorty of other classes play heavy and thats because its the best option! i was hoping this patch could nerf heavy armor, and while it did nerf it a bit, and buffed light + medium armor (thanks for that!) it didnt nerf heavy enough.

we are in a malacath meta so heavy armors defense is just too good to give up (since we get free damage anyway) I play sometimes in cyrodiil where there is no proc test, but its too laggy for me to enjoy so i mostly play imperial city, and procs and malacath and heavy armor are very much apex there.

My suggestion is add a flat 0.3 second GCD to ALL abilities for each heavy armor piece used. This will result in a 2.45 GCD on skills with 5 heavy pieces, and roughly 3 second GCD to skills if you use 7 pieces. This seems like a fair and good suggestion, considering heavy armor users already match medium armor and light armor users in damage, but also provides far better defense

Sadly this game seems to always cater to PvE and roleplay, instead of PvP. I dont have faith this will go through, but it would make PvP far more enjoyable.

PvP will most likely be focused on last as always

waterfairy

"not nerfed enough" gtfo with that...so sick of nerfs and people asking for them because they can't compete with a select few

Rukia541

Thats a terrible idea, GCD is not fun gameplay. Just nerf the value of heavy in pvp would be enough, but I haven't pvp in so long I don't even know if its actually that good or not.

DreadDaedroth

Thanks, your ideas make it even less fun to play PvE tanks

Joy_Division

Here's just a wild and crazy idea to deal with all the Heavy armor is too strong complaints we have had for years.

Make Light and Medium armor more interesting and more enticing to use.

karekiz

IntenseRenegader wrote: »

Sadly this game seems to always cater to PvE and roleplay, instead of PvP. I dont have faith this will go through, but it would make PvP far more enjoyable.

PvP will most likely be focused on last as always

Cyrodiil no proc meta is best. Ask for it in BG's/ICP too.

LostHorizon1933

Every day a new Nerf herder.

And always the “Assassins Screed“

BlueRaven

If heavy armor is so good in pvp, have you considered actually wearing heavy armor in pvp and liking it?

nukk3r

Heavy armor was nerfed because of PvP, these nerfs almost killed PvE tanks as a viable play style. Maybe you should complain less and practice more. I've heard that learning to play makes wonders.

BTW, how are you faring against magsorcs now?

Agenericname

IntenseRenegader wrote: »

Hi, heavy armor is still way stronger than medium and light on both stamina and magicka (necromancer and nb may get away in medium because of NBs mitigation via cloak, and necromancers passive mitigation from its toolkit) However my stamina dk, and majorty of other classes play heavy and thats because its the best option! i was hoping this patch could nerf heavy armor, and while it did nerf it a bit, and buffed light + medium armor (thanks for that!) it didnt nerf heavy enough.

we are in a malacath meta so heavy armors defense is just too good to give up (since we get free damage anyway) I play sometimes in cyrodiil where there is no proc test, but its too laggy for me to enjoy so i mostly play imperial city, and procs and malacath and heavy armor are very much apex there.

My suggestion is add a flat 0.3 second GCD to ALL abilities for each heavy armor piece used. This will result in a 2.45 GCD on skills with 5 heavy pieces, and roughly 3 second GCD to skills if you use 7 pieces. This seems like a fair and good suggestion, considering heavy armor users already match medium armor and light armor users in damage, but also provides far better defense

Sadly this game seems to always cater to PvE and roleplay, instead of PvP. I dont have faith this will go through, but it would make PvP far more enjoyable.

PvP will most likely be focused on last as always

You want PvE tanks to play a turn-based game because someone killed you?

ArcVelarian

nukk3r wrote: »

BTW, how are you faring against magsorcs now?

If there's anything that actually needs to be nerfed, it's Magicka Sorcerers.

Araneae6537

No offense, but horrible suggestions! I would give up on tanking entirely. As for PvP, it depends on the class as to whether or not heavy is still meta, but for those where it isn’t, it will require active damage avoidance in the form of dodge-roll, cloak, shield, streak, etc. as applicable.

IMHO, the only thing that could use a nerf are proc sets that do a lot of damage independent of character attributes. Those don’t seem balanced to me and I don’t think any tanks use those so it should help PvP without hurting PvE.

drkfrontiers

Give the author what he wants. Remove Heavy Armour from pvp. Bam. Problem solved.

LostHorizon1933

How about no armor and everyone just runs around hitting each other with sticks?

BlueRaven

LostHorizon1933 wrote: »

How about no armor and everyone just runs around hitting each other with sticks?

Then the forums would be filled with “Nerf sticks”, or “Sticks hit too hard” threads.

radiostar

OMG, how much do tanks have to suffer for this?? WOW

LostHorizon1933

BlueRaven wrote: »

Then the forums would be filled with “Nerf sticks”, or “Sticks hit too hard” threads.

No class abilities either, since they’re all obviously overpowered

tomofhyrule

IntenseRenegader wrote: »

Sadly this game seems to always cater to PvE and roleplay, instead of PvP. I dont have faith this will go through, but it would make PvP far more enjoyable.

PvP will most likely be focused on last as always

...

Umm, how many PvE/RPers were asking for the armor changes we got?

I know when they introduced them, the idea was for them to be like rock-paper-scissors, where "light beats heavy, heavy beats medium, and medium beats light." Now maybe I don't know much about the mechanics of the game, but I don't think that the enemy's armor weight is counted when you're in a dungeon/trial/RP tavern. If it were, that'd make some of the fights really easy, since there are plenty of PvE bosses that don't even wear armor, so they should go down in no time flat!

The armor changes were put in because of PvP. That was all for you guys. Now whether they addressed them properly or not is another question.

PvP has had a heavy/proc/malacath meta for a while that allows you to stack large damage with large resistances, and the fact that you're not getting crits isn't a problem when heavy doesn't really come with crit bonuses anyway. The changes of making heavy even more protective when CC immune (which a lot of people in PvP are) and taking more mag damage (which isn't common in PvP) and less physical damage (which is) are only reinforcing that meta. And they're not good changes for PvE tanks.

What they should do is make some penalties that shake up PvP without messing with PvE, like:

• Each piece of heavy gives a weakness to crits, which you don't get hit with in PvE. That'll shift back to a more crit-based meta and away from heavy
• Malacath's penalty is take extra crit damage instead of doing no crits. Also it shouldn't be able to affect things that can't crit in the first place.
• The resistance buff comes from standing still instead of from being CC immune. PvE could use the resist for tanking, but we don't get hit with much time CC immune, we just stand in the boss' face and don't move it so the deeps can burn it down. Meanwhile, PvP is all about bunny hops, so a bonus if you stand still (and make yourself an easy target) would shake that up.

What would completely screw PvE: "Oops, I dropped taunt on Z'Maja because I had to use a self-heal, hope you guys'll be okay for the next few seconds while I'm on cooldown!"

I have a request too - can we stop making life harder for PvE support roles because PvP is calling for nerfs? If PvP needs to be nerfed, fine. But stop nerfing stuff in such a way that it ends up making the game way worse for supports... who can't even get kills in PvP (if they ever were to even go into the warzones)

Nord_Raseri

No

SickleCider

This reads like "A Modest Proposal" but it's real.

Flaaklypa

Versispellis wrote: »

This reads like "A Modest Proposal" but it's real.

Yep. It is.

This is the scary part of the forum. Suggestions like this which is so insane one could very well think its a troll suggestion. But its not. Its a real suggestion that legit could destroy the game for everyone outside pvp

Agenericname

Versispellis wrote: »

This reads like "A Modest Proposal" but it's real.

Its all about the potatoes

Elo106

Flaaklypa wrote: »

Versispellis wrote: »

This reads like "A Modest Proposal" but it's real.

Yep. It is.

This is the scary part of the forum. Suggestions like this which is so insane one could very well think its a troll suggestion. But its not. Its a real suggestion that legit could destroy the game for everyone outside pvp

Outside PvP AND inside. No one likes increased GCD or Cooldowns of any sort, the cooldown tests were the most disliked ones.

Heavy armor does not do the same damage that medium and light does and has enough drawbacks. Op is comparing Heavy armor WITH a mythic against light/medium stand alone.
You can use malacath with light/medium if you want and if you dont, you can use another strong mythic instead.

woe

There doesn't need to be anymore changes.

techyeshic

I think you are out of your mind. Reactive defense way outdoes heavy armor now. I think they just made a mistake in making light armor even more squishy. Medium is good.

OneWingedAnge7

A solution I'd like which would help pvp but not hinder pve is that each piece of heavy you wear reduces your damage by 3% or whatever.
That way folk stacking heavy wouldn't be able to turn around and drop you in a flash and tanks wouldn't be complaining about their lack of dps in dungeons, you know as tanks don't need to do damage and that.

INe_Saninus

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Give the author what he wants. Remove Heavy Armour from pvp. Bam. Problem solved.

...but then it will be about how medium/light (or whatever he THINKS killed him last) needs nerfed.

Honestly, seeing all the "heavy armor" is OP threads through the years makes me laugh.

Most of those people were probably wearing medium to begin with.

We didn't get into a real heavy meta until Malacath and crit chance nerfs.

Talk class balance. Talk set balance. Give me something else to read.

BlueRaven

OneWingedAnge7 wrote: »

A solution I'd like which would help pvp but not hinder pve is that each piece of heavy you wear reduces your damage by 3% or whatever.
That way folk stacking heavy wouldn't be able to turn around and drop you in a flash and tanks wouldn't be complaining about their lack of dps in dungeons, you know as tanks don't need to do damage and that.

Horrible, horrible, horrible idea.

Tanks don’t just exist in dungeons. They have to do dailies, delves, and the like. And they may like to just quest through the new chapter as well.

And before you say tanks can wear different armor for that, I would suggest that if heavy is so good in pvp, maybe pvp players should start wearing it and leave pve alone.

Making tanks have to run through all of these extra requirements and still do inferior damage is why there is a pve tank shortage.

Sergykid

in pvp defense is pretty much the same considering the boost to healing and stats, and in pve tanking is even easier.
so it's just a bait thread, /next

jircris11

This right here is why i hate the pvp crowd (not all mind you just the ones who constantly complain) within my guild at least half pvp only and around 90% of those people complain constantly. I mean its a mmo with pvp and pve you will have a hard time balancing anything, especially when people dont want to learn how to ACTUALLY counter a build. To those of you who adapt you have my resect but these nerf threads need to freaking go away.

bmnoble

They have already screwed over tanks enough, if they want to do anymore do it with battle spirit.

If you turn tanking into some turn based mini game, that will be the straw that breaks the camels back.



Just out of interest but how do you know what armor weight someone else is wearing in PVP? I would hate all these nerf complaints to turn out to be about someone who has an outfit that is heavy armour in style but is actually wearing light or medium and people thinking there being killed by someone in heavy armour.

Even if its a proc set they could be using it in jewelry and weapons instead of the armour.