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end game
SeaArcanist
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I think the end game at the moment is alright, since this 2.0 system is still new. in 6 months to a year from now is where i see this system failing. when that gap between levels is large. new commer entering an atmosphere where the games cp average is 2k by that point in time. we live i na day and age where "parse" or w/e is a thing? where any little advantage counts. and if the average is 2k cp to get that parse. newbies will be excluded from end game content until they achieve this.
same can be said for pvp advantages. alas ull need to pve alot now before you can pvp. non champ is a thing but I don't see people joining eso for pvp. any new comers join eso for pve and eventually give pvp a try. this gap in exp, when those people try, will only keep those people away from pvp. and if they want to level for pvp/pve they gotta do pve content to level. which will take them 3-4 months of pure dedication to catch up by then.
same issues with level gaps even over the tiniest of advantages have effected a vriety of mmo's. one that comes to mind is archeage, or black desert online. and i feel ESO is heading in that direction. nowbody wants to do a thing they dont necessarily want to do for 4 months, just so they can finally play the game how they want.
same can be said for pvp advantages. alas ull need to pve alot now before you can pvp. non champ is a thing but I don't see people joining eso for pvp. any new comers join eso for pve and eventually give pvp a try. this gap in exp, when those people try, will only keep those people away from pvp. and if they want to level for pvp/pve they gotta do pve content to level. which will take them 3-4 months of pure dedication to catch up by then.
same issues with level gaps even over the tiniest of advantages have effected a vriety of mmo's. one that comes to mind is archeage, or black desert online. and i feel ESO is heading in that direction. nowbody wants to do a thing they dont necessarily want to do for 4 months, just so they can finally play the game how they want.
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Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It keeps being said, but I'll say it again.
The gap between low and high cp players is the lowest it has been in forever.
So much more of a character's power now comes from the increased stats they gain just by leveling, and the power cp grants is greatly reduced comparatively.
Also 2k cp for a parse is a joke. At 1500 cp I had every single passive that increased my damage maxed (with the exception of Flawless Ritual, the weakest damage cp, which was only half filled) and all mitigation passives maxed. And if you were to forgo mitigation passives you could max your parse by like 1200 cp.Edited by Mindcr0w on March 18, 2021 9:27AM5 -
ACamaroGuy✭✭✭I agree. I don't see my self leveling from 1278 to 2200/3600 just to be where I was or slightly better then where I was at 810. I do like the added options the new system has to offer. I don't like how I have to waste points into things I don't want/need to unlock the ones I do want/need. They should've changed the original a bit and added some new ones with you, the player, getting to pick what you want. I feel that 1800 would've been a better CP number to work with for now until most of the ESO community got to close the gap.For the Empire1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭1200 CP is not low level player.
Low level may be 160 is, even 400+ is middle player i think ?0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ACamaroGuy wrote: »I agree. I don't see my self leveling from 1278 to 2200/3600 just to be where I was or slightly better then where I was at 810.
Good news.
As has been said, if you are dps, with 1200 cp you can max out all your damage cp's. By 1500-1600 you have your damage and mitigation maxed. Even hardcore pvpers trying to max every 0.01% of survivability aren't gaining even that past 1800ish.
All this talk of needing 2000+ cp to be effective is utter nonsense.5 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The actual power gap between cp and no cp was significantly lowered, amount of exp per cp was also heavily adjusted so nothing really changed that dramatically other than numbers of preference.1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭I read you, and am afraid of your logick.
1200+ low level players, 810+ cap was bad, now people need to LVL up.
I see no good in it.
A lot of players do not have such a lot of time, it was problem for them to lvl up to 500, now to 1200 ?
What if he want to play, not to grind ?
Can he ?
Or 1200- small level players do not count ?
And I do not understand what content, may be vMOL is considered like it, so it will be funny if 1200- small players are not enough for such high level content.
Change with CP was really bad, it takes time for grind from those who do not want and already take 3 time more to lvl up !1 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think players need to take stock and stop worrying so much. Yes there are high CP players but there are an awful lot of low CP players.
The average player CP is 410 as per Zos.
410 is not enough and they will experience a power loss, but is that such a bad thing?
1200 is roughly the amount you need to have all the damage / mitigation CP's. Your average 410 player will reach that quicker than they would have reached 810 before due to the change in xp curve, the double xp events and all the scrolls they get thrown at them.
So the time taken to max power is reduced, they will have more health then ever before and will be able to do so called end game content quicker than before. Assuming they can actually play the game, learn a rotation, do high damage, etc.
High CP does not make a player good at this game. It helps a good player become better, it makes a bad player a potato.
There were plenty of 810 potatoes before, now they are 1250 potatoes instead1 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think players need to take stock and stop worrying so much. Yes there are high CP players but there are an awful lot of low CP players.
The average player CP is 410 as per Zos.
410 is not enough and they will experience a power loss, but is that such a bad thing?
1200 is roughly the amount you need to have all the damage / mitigation CP's. Your average 410 player will reach that quicker than they would have reached 810 before due to the change in xp curve, the double xp events and all the scrolls they get thrown at them.
So the time taken to max power is reduced, they will have more health then ever before and will be able to do so called end game content quicker than before. Assuming they can actually play the game, learn a rotation, do high damage, etc.
High CP does not make a player good at this game. It helps a good player become better, it makes a bad player a potato.
There were plenty of 810 potatoes before, now they are 1250 potatoes instead
While your right and i totally agree Ppl will always focus on the select few who are maxed cp. Its sad but it is what it is.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Bad people are bad people,for me it is meta people
So nothing changed.
And people who do records are good players who do thingth on their purpose. I do not feel like META about them.Edited by AyaDark on March 18, 2021 2:10PM0 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I read you, and am afraid of your logick.
1200+ low level players, 810+ cap was bad, now people need to LVL up.
I see no good in it.
A lot of players do not have such a lot of time, it was problem for them to lvl up to 500, now to 1200 ?
What if he want to play, not to grind ?
Can he ?
Or 1200- small level players do not count ?
And I do not understand what content, may be vMOL is considered like it, so it will be funny if 1200- small players are not enough for such high level content.
Change with CP was really bad, it takes time for grind from those who do not want and already take 3 time more to lvl up !
Newer players have it better now than anyone ever has, because they adjusted the XP required per CP level. Check this analysis for some details on why:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/565312/why-some-of-us-are-upset-about-cp-2-0#latest
Once you hit 1800, there is little left to fill out that is not purely horizontal progression. You are good to go in vet trials at 1200 or so, although the dev team has claimed that if you were at 810 before you'd see very little change in your ability to do the same content you were doing. I disagree with that, but the upside for someone just starting today is that it will take them a lot less time to get "trial ready" than anyone else who has been playing in the past 6 years. They will get pretty close without ever really getting frustrated at the grindiness of the game, and by the time they hit an appropriate level of CP, they can realistically start challenging themselves. I just wish they granted their long term players the same consideration.0 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭furiouslog wrote: »I read you, and am afraid of your logick.
1200+ low level players, 810+ cap was bad, now people need to LVL up.
I see no good in it.
A lot of players do not have such a lot of time, it was problem for them to lvl up to 500, now to 1200 ?
What if he want to play, not to grind ?
Can he ?
Or 1200- small level players do not count ?
And I do not understand what content, may be vMOL is considered like it, so it will be funny if 1200- small players are not enough for such high level content.
Change with CP was really bad, it takes time for grind from those who do not want and already take 3 time more to lvl up !
Newer players have it better now than anyone ever has, because they adjusted the XP required per CP level. Check this analysis for some details on why:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/565312/why-some-of-us-are-upset-about-cp-2-0#latest
Once you hit 1800, there is little left to fill out that is not purely horizontal progression. You are good to go in vet trials at 1200 or so, although the dev team has claimed that if you were at 810 before you'd see very little change in your ability to do the same content you were doing. I disagree with that, but the upside for someone just starting today is that it will take them a lot less time to get "trial ready" than anyone else who has been playing in the past 6 years. They will get pretty close without ever really getting frustrated at the grindiness of the game, and by the time they hit an appropriate level of CP, they can realistically start challenging themselves. I just wish they granted their long term players the same consideration.
the ability to do the "same" yes. thats like claiming when the level cap rises to 60 "if you're level 50 now you wont see a change in your dps!" the old becomes the obsolete method, and the new takes over. sure you wont see much of a change compared to 1.0 upon swapping from 810 in 1.0 to 810 in 2.0. but that isnt the point, a stick will hit just as hard as it did before, but now we have access to a sword. and the sword is the superior choice. get it?0 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭I think players need to take stock and stop worrying so much. Yes there are high CP players but there are an awful lot of low CP players.
The average player CP is 410 as per Zos.
410 is not enough and they will experience a power loss, but is that such a bad thing?
1200 is roughly the amount you need to have all the damage / mitigation CP's. Your average 410 player will reach that quicker than they would have reached 810 before due to the change in xp curve, the double xp events and all the scrolls they get thrown at them.
So the time taken to max power is reduced, they will have more health then ever before and will be able to do so called end game content quicker than before. Assuming they can actually play the game, learn a rotation, do high damage, etc.
High CP does not make a player good at this game. It helps a good player become better, it makes a bad player a potato.
There were plenty of 810 potatoes before, now they are 1250 potatoes instead
i agree, skill is a major factor regardless of advantage or disadvantage. however regardless of this people will always pick a player of higher level, unless they know them personally. skill isnt immediately recognized and levels are. two random people are you gonna pick the 400 or the 1,200 for your trial team? and guilds still advaertise "need x champ points" to join! etc etc. there is still prejudice vs low champ levels regardless of if they even make a difference after 810.1 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭ACamaroGuy wrote: »I agree. I don't see my self leveling from 1278 to 2200/3600 just to be where I was or slightly better then where I was at 810.
Good news.
As has been said, if you are dps, with 1200 cp you can max out all your damage cp's. By 1500-1600 you have your damage and mitigation maxed. Even hardcore pvpers trying to max every 0.01% of survivability aren't gaining even that past 1800ish.
All this talk of needing 2000+ cp to be effective is utter nonsense.
for pvp in some cases. 2k is needed. tehcnicly not needed as you stated. going from 1800-2000 will only give you like a 1 or 1.5% dvantage. hardly recognizable. but it;s all the little things that matter. and an advantage is an advantage non the less. thats what seperates the regulars from the big boys in pvp. the ability to recognize an advantage and take advantage.0 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭ACamaroGuy wrote: »I agree. I don't see my self leveling from 1278 to 2200/3600 just to be where I was or slightly better then where I was at 810. I do like the added options the new system has to offer. I don't like how I have to waste points into things I don't want/need to unlock the ones I do want/need. They should've changed the original a bit and added some new ones with you, the player, getting to pick what you want. I feel that 1800 would've been a better CP number to work with for now until most of the ESO community got to close the gap.
the issue isnt "trying to obtai nwhat we've lost" thats easy. getting to 1,200 is essentually where we left off at in 810 CP. obtaining what the norm is now will be hard.
players are so fixated by the words "if you were 810 in 1.0 you wont see a power decrease!" that they dont focus on the other half of the truth. there is a new "normal" a new "average" and it's higher than 1,200. sure 810-1,200 in 2.0 will see your stats be exactly how they were in 1.0. but it can go HIGHER now. people dont recognize that. the devs arnt saying 810-1,200 is the normal soft cap, they ae syaing 810-1,200 is how on par with your statsi n .1.0.. but thye CAN go higher. that is not the average anymore.
that phrase alone has confused the community, and every1 argues now you dont need mroe that 1,200, which isnt true0 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭It keeps being said, but I'll say it again.
The gap between low and high cp players is the lowest it has been in forever.
So much more of a character's power now comes from the increased stats they gain just by leveling, and the power cp grants is greatly reduced comparatively.
Also 2k cp for a parse is a joke. At 1500 cp I had every single passive that increased my damage maxed (with the exception of Flawless Ritual, the weakest damage cp, which was only half filled) and all mitigation passives maxed. And if you were to forgo mitigation passives you could max your parse by like 1200 cp.
thats all fine and dandy for pve. arguably those mitigation passives matter. especialy the 15% damage mitigation one for pve. (if im remembering correctly). more damage taken= less time damageing= less dps over all or reosurces blown to keep you alive.
you look at ur dps fro ma pencil to paper perspective, bunt dont take into account situations that pressure you to where you cannot fully unleash all your dps, and gotta focus on survivability. and these champ mitigations lessens the blows on you allowing you to spend more time in the ring dishing out damage. therefore sum totaling more damage.
i mean sure o nthe test dummy you hti the same, but in rpactice where ur activly taking damage avoiding moves etc. you will notice a diffrence.0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭needless worry.
actual skill in the game matters way more than arbitrary CP numbers. if i was looking at forming a score pushing group i wouldn't be asking for a dummy parse or CP, i'd be asking for logs of HM clears.
almost no one gets into an IR prog or TTT without people knowing who they are first and vet trial groups progging their way through vMoL are a lot less picky about max CP or dummy parses.1 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭needless worry.
actual skill in the game matters way more than arbitrary CP numbers. if i was looking at forming a score pushing group i wouldn't be asking for a dummy parse or CP, i'd be asking for logs of HM clears.
almost no one gets into an IR prog or TTT without people knowing who they are first and vet trial groups progging their way through vMoL are a lot less picky about max CP or dummy parses.
"logs of clears" and how many new players will have content cleared?0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SeaArcanist wrote: »needless worry.
actual skill in the game matters way more than arbitrary CP numbers. if i was looking at forming a score pushing group i wouldn't be asking for a dummy parse or CP, i'd be asking for logs of HM clears.
almost no one gets into an IR prog or TTT without people knowing who they are first and vet trial groups progging their way through vMoL are a lot less picky about max CP or dummy parses.
"logs of clears" and how many new players will have content cleared?
I run a vet trials guild and as long as you're CP 300 you're welcome to join. We have a specific trial night for people who are new to trials to gain experience and gear.
My logs comment is specifically targeted to people who are looking for HM and achievement clears. If you haven't done any trials at all, then this won't apply to you anyway.
My advice to anyone looking to get into vet trials is to use the guild finder and look for a vet trials guild that matches their experience level.0 -
ACamaroGuy✭✭✭SeaArcanist wrote: »needless worry.
actual skill in the game matters way more than arbitrary CP numbers. if i was looking at forming a score pushing group i wouldn't be asking for a dummy parse or CP, i'd be asking for logs of HM clears.
almost no one gets into an IR prog or TTT without people knowing who they are first and vet trial groups progging their way through vMoL are a lot less picky about max CP or dummy parses.
"logs of clears" and how many new players will have content cleared?
I run a vet trials guild and as long as you're CP 300 you're welcome to join. We have a specific trial night for people who are new to trials to gain experience and gear.
My logs comment is specifically targeted to people who are looking for HM and achievement clears. If you haven't done any trials at all, then this won't apply to you anyway.
My advice to anyone looking to get into vet trials is to use the guild finder and look for a vet trials guild that matches their experience level.
What platform and server?For the Empire0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ACamaroGuy wrote: »SeaArcanist wrote: »needless worry.
actual skill in the game matters way more than arbitrary CP numbers. if i was looking at forming a score pushing group i wouldn't be asking for a dummy parse or CP, i'd be asking for logs of HM clears.
almost no one gets into an IR prog or TTT without people knowing who they are first and vet trial groups progging their way through vMoL are a lot less picky about max CP or dummy parses.
"logs of clears" and how many new players will have content cleared?
I run a vet trials guild and as long as you're CP 300 you're welcome to join. We have a specific trial night for people who are new to trials to gain experience and gear.
My logs comment is specifically targeted to people who are looking for HM and achievement clears. If you haven't done any trials at all, then this won't apply to you anyway.
My advice to anyone looking to get into vet trials is to use the guild finder and look for a vet trials guild that matches their experience level.
What platform and server?
PC / NA0 -
Ceejengine✭✭✭I mean, no matter what you're limited to a total of 12 stars no matter how many you have. Passive bonuses are so tiny you won't see much difference between two identically geared players.
Sure someone with 2300 CP has more options unlocked at once, but I don't think its remotely doom & gloom. Lower levels are just more focused in their build, whereas after a point higher CPs allow you to dabble in multiple things at once.
You still get 4 stars no matter what though. So even though 2 builds are fully unlocked, you must pick between them.
What I think might help alleviate new player stress is to just go back to displaying your level. The level that caps at 50. So you just have a bunch of level 50s running around.
If you really need people to show off their fictional internet points, add an 'Inspect Player' option that shows their gear + CP total + Allotment.
That would reduce traffic to Alcast but might allow a few new folks to get a sense of the builds experienced players are running.
I understand the function of CP, it still feels dumb to see a level 1,489 character.Edited by Ceejengine on March 18, 2021 11:43PM0 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭Ceejengine wrote: »I mean, no matter what you're limited to a total of 12 stars no matter how many you have. Passive bonuses are so tiny you won't see much difference between two identically geared players.
Sure someone with 2300 CP has more options unlocked at once, but I don't think its remotely doom & gloom. Lower levels are just more focused in their build, whereas after a point higher CPs allow you to dabble in multiple things at once.
You still get 4 stars no matter what though. So even though 2 builds are fully unlocked, you must pick between them.
What I think might help alleviate new player stress is to just go back to displaying your level. The level that caps at 50. So you just have a bunch of level 50s running around.
If you really need people to show off their fictional internet points, add an 'Inspect Player' option that shows their gear + CP total + Allotment.
That would reduce traffic to Alcast but might allow a few new folks to get a sense of the builds experienced players are running.
I understand the function of CP, it still feels dumb to see a level 1,489 character.
"passive bonuses are tiny"- wd increases, damage mitigations, recieved healing increases. penetration. all costing about 300-400 to obtain these passives. thats 900- 1,200 more champion levels to get these perks under warefare. not including your 4 passives ull need to slot. sum totaling 1800 at least for maximum efficentcy pve.0 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭as stated, nobody notices the advantages yet, hardly anyone has obtained that many champion points yet. it goes unrecognized atm. in 6 months it will ebcome noticeable and the new standard1
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Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SeaArcanist wrote: »as stated, nobody notices the advantages yet, hardly anyone has obtained that many champion points yet. it goes unrecognized atm. in 6 months it will ebcome noticeable and the new standard
Ok, and as someone who has enough cp that gaining more provide no real advantage I say lets pick this back up in 6 months. A million gold says that by then the playerbase will have realized that they don't need anything close to 2000 cp to be effective in most situations and that low cp players have it better than they've had it in a long time.
Deal?1 -
Ceejengine✭✭✭SeaArcanist wrote: »Ceejengine wrote: »I mean, no matter what you're limited to a total of 12 stars no matter how many you have. Passive bonuses are so tiny you won't see much difference between two identically geared players.
Sure someone with 2300 CP has more options unlocked at once, but I don't think its remotely doom & gloom. Lower levels are just more focused in their build, whereas after a point higher CPs allow you to dabble in multiple things at once.
You still get 4 stars no matter what though. So even though 2 builds are fully unlocked, you must pick between them.
What I think might help alleviate new player stress is to just go back to displaying your level. The level that caps at 50. So you just have a bunch of level 50s running around.
If you really need people to show off their fictional internet points, add an 'Inspect Player' option that shows their gear + CP total + Allotment.
That would reduce traffic to Alcast but might allow a few new folks to get a sense of the builds experienced players are running.
I understand the function of CP, it still feels dumb to see a level 1,489 character.
"passive bonuses are tiny"- wd increases, damage mitigations, recieved healing increases. penetration. all costing about 300-400 to obtain these passives. thats 900- 1,200 more champion levels to get these perks under warefare. not including your 4 passives ull need to slot. sum totaling 1800 at least for maximum efficentcy pve.
Yes passive bonuses are less powerful than they were before and CP 2.0 has done a fantastic job of leveling the playing field and bringing the floor up a few steps.
Saying that you need 1,800 points to unlock everything doesn't mean anything in relation to that. What I'm stating is that a player at CP 160 is WAY better off than they were, and can clear the same content just as effectively as a CP 900.
That's what is the best about the new system, you don't NEED all the passives. They're nice to have, but they don't make or break you.0
