How much self penetration should I be aiming for?

spartaxoxo

What's a good amount, in general, for a magicka class? A stamina class? Just a ballpark range as I'm sure it varies by class.

Sangwyne

[snip]

generally you want to shoot for no more than 7170. Tanks generally provide 5948 pen through Major Breach and 2974 through Minor Breach with Pierce Armor, alongside 2108 pen from a gold Infused Crusher enchant on backbar, for a total of 11030 pen, and no PvE enemies in game should have more than 18200. For a Magicka build, you should be wearing no fewer than 5 pieces of Light armor (for the Undaunted passives when going 5/1/1 and the ability to use Annulment), which would grant you 4695 base penetration, meaning you'd only need 2475 (at maximum) to cap, with 1400 of that available through the Piercing CP star. For Stamina builds, the math becomes a little more finicky, as you can't guarantee that the tank will be using Torug's, or that they'll be wearing Tremorscale for the additional physical pen, or that they'll even have Alkosh anymore, or that you'll have a Stamina Sorcerer with Crystal Weapon in the group, etc. So depending on your group composition, potentially expect to bring much more, up to even 7170 if needed.

[Edited for inappropriate content]

Tannus15

depends on the content you're doing

This is the bare minimum trial debuffs:

Major Breach 5948
Minor Breach 2974
Infused Crusher 2108

= 11,030

You want 18,200 pen total ideally, so aim for 7k pen on your character screen.

DinoZavr

For PVE:
- Bosses in group dungeons have 18,200 armor, and, ideally you would like to pierce through it
1) coordinated groups normally offer Major & Minor Breach, Crusher on tanks weapon and Alcosh, so
18,200 - 5,948 - 2,947 - 1,622 - 3,000 = 4,656
2) in PUGs the Roar of Alcosh is not guaranteed, so aim for like 7,656
3) For soloing 4mans you'd need to get all the 18,200 (or at least closely approach this value) by yourself

For PVP:
- On average consider 26,000 - 28,000 armor on tanky characters (thou some unkillable players go for 33,100 cap).

How do you get your weapon/spell pen:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/564985/penetration-cp2-0-question
(i forgot to mention some arena weapons, though they are of a niche use).

Tannus15

Alkosh can be replaced by better sets now since mag dps don't need any extra pen.

Tremor scale can make up the difference for stam if required with 2,395 and maces / sharp weapons

Vanya

Tannus15 wrote: »

depends on the content you're doing

This is the bare minimum trial debuffs:

Major Breach 5948
Minor Breach 2974
Infused Crusher 2108

= 11,030

You want 18,200 pen total ideally, so aim for 7k pen on your character screen.

Minimum trial debuffs set by whom? Are we talking about Normal,Veteran or Veteran Hard Mode?
Funny because I completed Normal with far less on my Altmer Sorceresess,Mayhaps further clarification?


I think some players are getting it to extreme. Beating Normal Dungeon or Trial ,world bosses or Arena is not a big deal. It gets way more seriously on Veteran thingys

Tannus15

Vanya wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

depends on the content you're doing

This is the bare minimum trial debuffs:

Major Breach 5948
Minor Breach 2974
Infused Crusher 2108

= 11,030

You want 18,200 pen total ideally, so aim for 7k pen on your character screen.

Minimum trial debuffs set by whom? Are we talking about Normal,Veteran or Veteran Hard Mode?
Funny because I completed Normal with far less on my Altmer Sorceresess,Mayhaps further clarification?


I think some players are getting it to extreme. Beating Normal Dungeon or Trial ,world bosses or Arena is not a big deal. It gets way more seriously on Veteran thingys

All bosses in PvE have 18,200 resists, normal or vet or HM.

pierce armour gives major and minor breach
infused crusher is literally just an infused staff on the tank with the armour break enchantment.

This is class and set agnostic and considered the expected minimum for any trials tank.

spartaxoxo

Next question, if I am solo should I be using lovers mundus or shadow mundus?

nukk3r

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Next question, if I am solo should I be using lovers mundus or shadow mundus?

What class, race, and gear? It wouldn't make any sense to use Shadow if your crit chance is low. Also for solo I'd recommend focusing on survivability and sustain rather than damage.

Grandchamp1989

I fully expected this thread to be dirty... But to my surprise everyone held back.

We may all be proud of ourself.

spartaxoxo

nukk3r wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Next question, if I am solo should I be using lovers mundus or shadow mundus?

What class, race, and gear? It wouldn't make any sense to use Shadow if your crit chance is low. Also for solo I'd recommend focusing on survivability and sustain rather than damage.

Breton, Templar, 51% crit or something like that. I'm not in front of the game but my chance to crit is decently high.

nukk3r

spartaxoxo wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Next question, if I am solo should I be using lovers mundus or shadow mundus?

What class, race, and gear? It wouldn't make any sense to use Shadow if your crit chance is low. Also for solo I'd recommend focusing on survivability and sustain rather than damage.

Breton, Templar, 51% crit or something like that. I'm not in front of the game but my chance to crit is decently high.

51% unbuffed is good for Shadow.

Nord_Raseri

Honestly on a solo mag build you should be fine with light armor pasives, cp, and the breach from destro.

Juhasow

It's also worth to add that the value of penetration You're aiming for changes based on the class You're playing. Necro for example have 1,5k penetration from passive and nb have additional 3k penetration on enemies You're flanking (whivh happens pretty often in PvE).

Juhasow

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Next question, if I am solo should I be using lovers mundus or shadow mundus?

If You want to min max for specific challenge all depends of setup You're playing on and variables like for example do You have acces to major breach etc. Personally I would go with shadow or thief because it's more versatile and very often there is no need for high penetration in solo encounters. For example in both maelstrom and vateshran arenas enemy resiatnce is sometimes 9k sometimes 12k and sometimes 18k (that includes the bosses) and it can be different for spell and physical resistance so fully optimising Your penetration is tricky there when with crit chance/crit dmg You can't go wrong. In overland content enemy reistances also differs in values.