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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 13
How to Prosper In NO PROC PVP
orion_1981usub17_ESO
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Thanks for stopping by; I know many folks are scratching thier head over the many changes in PVP, especially console folks that find there way here after being blown up tomorrow. I hope this information helps you better understand the environment you are now in for three months.
First; Who are you?
To survive and prosper in PVP you need to understand your level of accomplishment and awareness. So obviously this is written to new, low or medium skill players (I do hope that highly skilled players add to the conversation). Knowing you approximate level of skill is the basis of choosing where, when and how to fight. As always you have to be honest with yourself.
New players: You need a group to learn the basics, Jump when others call for LFG folks. Tanks and healers are more forgiving to new players. Stick with big groups until you feel comfortable. Bring rams, ballista, oils, and door repair kits and your already half way to the road of being useful.
Low skill: You been playing for a while and your not getting better; you need to find small scale groups that give you fights that improve your reflexes. Get out of the zerg if it begins to hold you back. Look for bridge and resource fights, learn your LOS skills
Medium skill: Most people are here and that's alright, You already got the basics but the "how do they do it?" still eludes you when you measure yourself against your betters.
Second; The Return of real roles on mass PVP.
Understand with the new update, it is much more difficult to completely encompass the MMO role triad. This means most folks can not be a dsp/tank and healer all at once and that is a great thing. You will likely need to change your role based on what's need for your group if your organized. You dont need a lot of tanks or healersm, but you probably want a few
Tank: You take hits, you stay in front, you block for your squishes so they don't get chunked. !!!You can no longer be unsupported!!!! Tanks really require a set of Brass or likely better impregnable armor, resistance and health give you time to react to dangers, stamina also is needed. Your skill bar should include stuns, debuffs, charges, heals and a spammable. Your not there to kill people anymore, and this is a big change. If your tanky and your lighter folks are being chunked, you will die after they do because you did not support them and they can no longer support you. Word to the wise, Magical dps is increased against you, so if your facing magfolks , retreat behind your stamina dps.
Healers We are back to the glory days of healers, !!!cross healing is back!!!! Everyone is going to need you know, most of them don't know it yet. Being a healer is not easy, every enemy is gonna hate you the most. So how do you heal in a high damage environment? First you don't need penetration so take off the spinners, little inside joke. Going max magicka and/or crit is perfect and a set like law of juilanos can be crafted in a mixture of light and heavy armor. A little defense goes a long ways though it might seem it. Speaking of defense, the most important things on your skill bar will be SHIELDS. In a high damage environment shields are the best defense in stopping your buddy from croaking. You also need burst heals, hots, buffs, drains, stuns or immobilize. If folks are dying it is your fault because they will need you more than ever, and if you are dying then its their fault and they need to protect you better.
Stamina DPS You get to kill people from all over, go bow, go DW, go 2-H , keep a SnB for defense; stamina are the front line killers and or flankers. This is the easiest one as you need high burst spammables, and lockdown skills such as stuns and immobilize. If you don't have an escape skill, you need to have an escape plan. In high damage those front lines should take spriggans and defense sets but those who flank or gank can stay double offense. Penetration is easy to get for everyone, so its just as likely that your armor is as paper thin as light armor users so do not get carried away.
Magicka DPS For a year you have hidden away because of the meta, but now you think your gonna run out those gate and wombo combo the enemy.... Wrong, your in light armor and their is literally a ganker at every gate waiting just for you. Your armor is really paper thin and any attempts to alleviate this results in drastic loss of damage potential. Yes you can run spinners and rattlecage but do you want to really not use crafy aliq or mothers sorrow? More than ever you need to choose your fight carefully. Its is safer to rain the high magicka damage where the stamina folks cant reach you and chunk you with their big swords, that's in the middle of a crowd or up high. Things you'll likely need on your bar are shields, Escape skills, A detect stealth skill or potion, stuns and or immobilize, and a high damage spammable.
Third; Fighting in Cyrodiil
1. A high damage environment favors the ganker, he is going to wait in stealth nearby a resource, fort or castle and attack you when you are either picking your nose on your horse or you are the back of the line in your group. They're there, you know they're there, so don't be complacent. Everyone should have a means of detect stealth be it potion, flare or guild tree (which they give crit and are awesome just for crit... equip them, now!).
2. Its not gonna be as easy to soak damage while attempting to siege a keep, anyone shooting down on you might start dropping players faster than oils can. getting counter siege to hit the balconies will be more important. Like wise high damage favors defenders and you can rain more death and doom faster on peoples heads.
3. Your gonna die more. Even the pros are having harder fighting groups of nubs. Don't get upset, don't get angry and don't come to the forums and say "nerf what killed me now".
4. Group up more, even the best players are realizing that you need to have good communication and folks you can trust to cover your rear. Do not try to go alone unless your a pro and don't need to listen to me anyway. And the best group is the one that talks; being able to let them know your getting jumped and by whom, has a better chance of saving your bacon or preventing them from dying; than a group with no coms.
I hope this helps folks going into no proc pvp understand the mindset changes you need to have to prosper in the high damage environment. Being aware of the fundamental mechanics of the game will help ensure that the next three months are higher adrenaline and greater experience than the previous meta. Please "PROs" remember the skill levels of whom you are talking to when you add your comments.
First; Who are you?
To survive and prosper in PVP you need to understand your level of accomplishment and awareness. So obviously this is written to new, low or medium skill players (I do hope that highly skilled players add to the conversation). Knowing you approximate level of skill is the basis of choosing where, when and how to fight. As always you have to be honest with yourself.
New players: You need a group to learn the basics, Jump when others call for LFG folks. Tanks and healers are more forgiving to new players. Stick with big groups until you feel comfortable. Bring rams, ballista, oils, and door repair kits and your already half way to the road of being useful.
Low skill: You been playing for a while and your not getting better; you need to find small scale groups that give you fights that improve your reflexes. Get out of the zerg if it begins to hold you back. Look for bridge and resource fights, learn your LOS skills
Medium skill: Most people are here and that's alright, You already got the basics but the "how do they do it?" still eludes you when you measure yourself against your betters.
Second; The Return of real roles on mass PVP.
Understand with the new update, it is much more difficult to completely encompass the MMO role triad. This means most folks can not be a dsp/tank and healer all at once and that is a great thing. You will likely need to change your role based on what's need for your group if your organized. You dont need a lot of tanks or healersm, but you probably want a few
Tank: You take hits, you stay in front, you block for your squishes so they don't get chunked. !!!You can no longer be unsupported!!!! Tanks really require a set of Brass or likely better impregnable armor, resistance and health give you time to react to dangers, stamina also is needed. Your skill bar should include stuns, debuffs, charges, heals and a spammable. Your not there to kill people anymore, and this is a big change. If your tanky and your lighter folks are being chunked, you will die after they do because you did not support them and they can no longer support you. Word to the wise, Magical dps is increased against you, so if your facing magfolks , retreat behind your stamina dps.
Healers We are back to the glory days of healers, !!!cross healing is back!!!! Everyone is going to need you know, most of them don't know it yet. Being a healer is not easy, every enemy is gonna hate you the most. So how do you heal in a high damage environment? First you don't need penetration so take off the spinners, little inside joke. Going max magicka and/or crit is perfect and a set like law of juilanos can be crafted in a mixture of light and heavy armor. A little defense goes a long ways though it might seem it. Speaking of defense, the most important things on your skill bar will be SHIELDS. In a high damage environment shields are the best defense in stopping your buddy from croaking. You also need burst heals, hots, buffs, drains, stuns or immobilize. If folks are dying it is your fault because they will need you more than ever, and if you are dying then its their fault and they need to protect you better.
Stamina DPS You get to kill people from all over, go bow, go DW, go 2-H , keep a SnB for defense; stamina are the front line killers and or flankers. This is the easiest one as you need high burst spammables, and lockdown skills such as stuns and immobilize. If you don't have an escape skill, you need to have an escape plan. In high damage those front lines should take spriggans and defense sets but those who flank or gank can stay double offense. Penetration is easy to get for everyone, so its just as likely that your armor is as paper thin as light armor users so do not get carried away.
Magicka DPS For a year you have hidden away because of the meta, but now you think your gonna run out those gate and wombo combo the enemy.... Wrong, your in light armor and their is literally a ganker at every gate waiting just for you. Your armor is really paper thin and any attempts to alleviate this results in drastic loss of damage potential. Yes you can run spinners and rattlecage but do you want to really not use crafy aliq or mothers sorrow? More than ever you need to choose your fight carefully. Its is safer to rain the high magicka damage where the stamina folks cant reach you and chunk you with their big swords, that's in the middle of a crowd or up high. Things you'll likely need on your bar are shields, Escape skills, A detect stealth skill or potion, stuns and or immobilize, and a high damage spammable.
Third; Fighting in Cyrodiil
1. A high damage environment favors the ganker, he is going to wait in stealth nearby a resource, fort or castle and attack you when you are either picking your nose on your horse or you are the back of the line in your group. They're there, you know they're there, so don't be complacent. Everyone should have a means of detect stealth be it potion, flare or guild tree (which they give crit and are awesome just for crit... equip them, now!).
2. Its not gonna be as easy to soak damage while attempting to siege a keep, anyone shooting down on you might start dropping players faster than oils can. getting counter siege to hit the balconies will be more important. Like wise high damage favors defenders and you can rain more death and doom faster on peoples heads.
3. Your gonna die more. Even the pros are having harder fighting groups of nubs. Don't get upset, don't get angry and don't come to the forums and say "nerf what killed me now".
4. Group up more, even the best players are realizing that you need to have good communication and folks you can trust to cover your rear. Do not try to go alone unless your a pro and don't need to listen to me anyway. And the best group is the one that talks; being able to let them know your getting jumped and by whom, has a better chance of saving your bacon or preventing them from dying; than a group with no coms.
I hope this helps folks going into no proc pvp understand the mindset changes you need to have to prosper in the high damage environment. Being aware of the fundamental mechanics of the game will help ensure that the next three months are higher adrenaline and greater experience than the previous meta. Please "PROs" remember the skill levels of whom you are talking to when you add your comments.
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Thraben✭✭✭✭✭I like your effort. That's why I will only add one point:
Tanks should generally not fight in groups unless it's groups of tanks.
That being said, most Duelists ARE tanks by PvE standards, so they are not useless, but they are most effective when they do their own thing as "brawler" type players.Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.1 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭If duelists go out unsupported their gonna have a tougher time, can they still over come, but it always depends on the how intelligent your opponent is and what advantages they let slip away. The mechanics today now greatly favor dodge over block and heavy armor is going to increase that dodge cost. You can get cp perks but then you miss out on other perks. The average player is not gonna be able to be tanky and land the same amount of damage as the medium or light armor wearers. It hasn't been a great while but we can see the shift in armor meta in pc.0
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Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great post with helpful info for all playstyles and skill types this update. hopefully people read this and take some info on before racing out to rage post about how bad and dead PvP is without procs.1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Great post with helpful info for all playstyles and skill types this update. hopefully people read this and take some info on before racing out to rage post about how bad and dead PvP is without procs.
The last few months I had been PVPing in a full damage PVE style no-proc set up on console and did fine. I crafted a ridiculous proc set last week for CP farming and when I tried it in Cyrodiil I hated it.
Not only do I not understand how people can PVP using more than one proc set, I also don’t understand why max stats wasn’t always the meta. Anyway, looks like a good update for me!
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Peacatcher✭✭✭I really like this, thanks for posting. Looking forward to trying Cyro once patch maintenance is over
Ps4 EU0 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Dps proc sets are easy as its just math on how much extra dps they give per sec. And most proc sets easily out damage stat sets by a margin of more than 5 to 1. So it was a no brainer.
The real issue with proc sets were defensive sets, many that could give you a get out of jail card when you need it. If you stack get out of jail cards then no one could beat you. Then you only need one or two wind up, to clobber the poor fool that doesn't understand how vastly out performed his gear sets are in relation to the enemy... the poor bugger.
And that was the problem. Extra dps and extra survival turns into cheese that everyone must grab hold of... or perish like the poor foolish buggers they are.1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Dps proc sets are easy as its just math on how much extra dps they give per sec. And most proc sets easily out damage stat sets by a margin of more than 5 to 1. So it was a no brainer.
The real issue with proc sets were defensive sets, many that could give you a get out of jail card when you need it. If you stack get out of jail cards then no one could beat you. Then you only need one or two wind up, to clobber the poor fool that doesn't understand how vastly out performed his gear sets are in relation to the enemy... the poor bugger.
And that was the problem. Extra dps and extra survival turns into cheese that everyone must grab hold of... or perish like the poor foolish buggers they are.
Yup, the removal of the "proc" condition of proc sets made them the best sets in the game to run for PVP, since all you had to do was focus on LOsing, moving around, etc, and the sets did so much healing and damage that stacked, you would just get kills.0 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Moving back to consoles it's amazing to see how the factions are adjusting. It seems EP is absolutely the worse at least on ps4 grey host. Folks need to understand that you need to group up and EP, the most casual faction, has a serious problem organizing. Though the faction was leading, the no proc pvp completely dissolved the faction over the last two days. Maybe they're grinding cp, but...
Anyways it'll be interesting to watch players adapt to this new, more unforgiving, environment. Because tonight they were getting crushed by the boots of their betters.0
