Unbalance between armor weights

Juhasow

catnamedwill wrote: »

consider that medium had its weapon damage nerf to a max of 14% from 15%, while light armor had its penetration buffed from max 4.8k to max 6.5k

[Edit to remove bait]]

Remember that we all got additional 1k of weapon and spell dmg so that 14% right now gives more then 15% before.

Merllow

In the old system, it was possible at least to reduce the damage from physical attacks by throwing in more champion points, and now I receive an additional 5% damage. And every day to see a tank in heavy armor running towards you, absorbing all my attacks and then giving me 10k dizzy and executing 15k. Or a player in medium armor just dodges everything and also kills you with two hits.
And heavy armor has 2 times more resists than light armor, but has the same penalties for increasing damage from light armor. therefore there is a stone, there are scissors, and everyone wipes their ass with paper

Greek_Hellspawn

Merllow wrote: »

In the old system, it was possible at least to reduce the damage from physical attacks by throwing in more champion points, and now I receive an additional 5% damage. And every day to see a tank in heavy armor running towards you, absorbing all my attacks and then giving me 10k dizzy and executing 15k. Or a player in medium armor just dodges everything and also kills you with two hits.
And heavy armor has 2 times more resists than light armor, but has the same penalties for increasing damage from light armor. therefore there is a stone, there are scissors, and everyone wipes their ass with paper

100% agreed.

Jayserix

Merllow wrote: »

[...]
And heavy armor has 2 times more resists than light armor, but has the same penalties for increasing damage from light armor. therefore there is a stone, there are scissors, and everyone wipes their ass with paper

This is the best summary of the armor changes yet.

Oakmontowls_ESO

I still question how we are supposed to work around these changes since, unless you are using crafted gear, we can't pick the weight of our armor without breaking sets.

Joy_Division

If you run out there with 5 light armor, you're going to get hit with 9K Surprise Attacks.

Vevvev

After PVPing on my magDK in light armor for several days I've found myself dealing a lot more damage, but also unable to really take a blow from a stamina build. Finding myself using mistform and dodge rolls more now than ever when my back is pressed towards a wall, and I feel like it's a DPS race to put my target on defense. I can get around the increased damage taken, but the debuff that has really hurt me has been the block cost increase debuff. I struggled to hold block up for very long before this patch, but now I wouldn't dare unless I absolutely had to. (Like blocking a Meteor or Dawnbreaker.)

Athan1

People just count how many bullet points are listed as penalties or advantages to each armor type and infer that medium is OP... If you play close attention to the content of the bullet points, you'll see that the medium advantages are indeed less sharp. They revolve around sneaking, which is mostly important for thieving (or ganking, but there are different counters for that anyway), and then movement speed... The 2% mitigation is only when immune to cc so extremely circumstantial. The only real buff that medium gets is the block cost reduction, as it enables you to tank in medium or to not exhaust your main resource, but even that is circumstantial. I was super excited about how "OP" medium would be after the changes, but it's only OP for sneaky thief builds, really, where you were running 7 medium anyway.

Bodycounter

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

The thing i would like to discuss is to why does light and heavy armor get penalties while medium doesn't. I know heavy is overpeforming and most use heavy in pvp, but there is no reason to give light penalties while medium gets no penalties but it gets bonuses.

Light armor has more penetration, reduced sprint cost, reduced dodge roll cost, takes less magical damage, reduced effectiveness of snares and has reduced cost of break free? The only bad thing light armor got has been the 7% increased martial damage. I still think light armor got an overall buff.

The whole update literally brought a single drawback (up to 7% more martial damage) and several buffs to light armor but everyone seems to solely focus on that one drawback. I am not saying that stamina and magicka classes are well balanced in PvP. I am saying that people are overreacting alot lately. Same goes for heavy armor which is still in a very good spot where it should be in a good spot.

deleted210809-001958

i don't know about ic/bg, but in no-proc cyrodil my magcro feels really good (27k hp, 5 1 1, shield on backbar, 10% single/aoe reduction sloted in blue cp) and still can deal decent damage

olsborg

Heavy armor still nr 1. The biggest drawback is the 1% more dmg taken from magical attacks, but that weakness is very softened by the fact that heavy armor has great resists so its not such a big problem. Light armor taking 1% more dmg from physical attacks however, is a much bigger issue because their physical resist is atrocious.

Tommy_The_Gun

Athan1 wrote: »

People just count how many bullet points are listed as penalties or advantages to each armor type and infer that medium is OP... If you play close attention to the content of the bullet points, you'll see that the medium advantages are indeed less sharp. They revolve around sneaking, which is mostly important for thieving (or ganking, but there are different counters for that anyway), and then movement speed... The 2% mitigation is only when immune to cc so extremely circumstantial. The only real buff that medium gets is the block cost reduction, as it enables you to tank in medium or to not exhaust your main resource, but even that is circumstantial. I was super excited about how "OP" medium would be after the changes, but it's only OP for sneaky thief builds, really, where you were running 7 medium anyway.

Yep. Medium has no penalties, because it has slightly weaker "core" passives. Besides, it was kinda nerfed (less crit rating and Weapon dmg %).
So even though it has "no penalties" - it is still not a clear "go to" armour for all stamina builds. I mean with 7 pcs you get like 7% more crit chance.

I think of it that way: If light armour would be somehow "converted" to provide weapon dmg, weapon crit and physical penetration - then it would be clear "go - to" armour for stamina builds (Despite penalties it has). I mean just look at the "core" passives of those 2 armours.

As for the Heavy Armour - it is still decent. As long as you balance penalties somehow by mixing armour types (5H, 1M, 1L etc.). Also, with CP, a lot of penalties can be reduced (sneak detection or speed or dmg taken). This applies to light armour as well - a lot of penalties can be reduced with CP.

In general, I like armour changes for a simple reason - the removal of 5 pcs requirement for some passives to trigger. We can now mix & match armour types as we want and what suits our playstyle the most. The only thing that is missing is armour skills - that still have 5 pcs requirement to use. At this point, it should be reduced to 4 or even 3 pcs.

Vetixio

Honestly as someone who enjoys play Mag/Casters in TES games including this one. I am getting more than fed up with the Elder Stamina Online, its been like this for 5+ years now Stam out performing Mag in PvP and PvE. I have lost a lot of interest in the game and constantly feel in PvP I gimp myself by playing a Mag toon, I also do not want to/have to motivation to grind to CP 1800+ to have all the passives I need for PvP/PvE. Its a shame, as I do love the game and love the community and my friends on here but the performance and the constant extreme changes, just really starts to take its toll on how much you can enjoy the game.

StarOfElyon

Bodycounter wrote: »

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

The thing i would like to discuss is to why does light and heavy armor get penalties while medium doesn't. I know heavy is overpeforming and most use heavy in pvp, but there is no reason to give light penalties while medium gets no penalties but it gets bonuses.

Light armor has more penetration, reduced sprint cost, reduced dodge roll cost, takes less magical damage, reduced effectiveness of snares and has reduced cost of break free? The only bad thing light armor got has been the 7% increased martial damage. I still think light armor got an overall buff.

The whole update literally brought a single drawback (up to 7% more martial damage) and several buffs to light armor but everyone seems to solely focus on that one drawback. I am not saying that stamina and magicka classes are well balanced in PvP. I am saying that people are overreacting alot lately. Same goes for heavy armor which is still in a very good spot where it should be in a good spot.

Point is: why did light armor need a 7% increased damage taken penalty when it was already by far the weakest armor to wear? The low armor value alone should have been the penalty. It didn't need even less protection. (@ZOS_GinaBruno pass it along)

Dakkx

Honestly the increased damage from stam needs to go. Light armor has lowest defense already. Not to mention 5/6 mag classes already can’t even compete with stam’s burst... [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Vermintide

I think the answer to all this armour stuff is movement speed.

The rest of the passives are/were mostly fine; there didn't need to be penalties for light and bonuses for medium or whatever. They had their own purposes; meanwhile heavy did what heavy armour should do- Protection.

So consider this. Light armour gets +2% base movement speed per piece. Medium gets normal movement speed. Heavy armour gets -2% base movement speed per piece.

And there we have it. You don't have to mess around with the values of the protection or offensive capability at all- But there would be no more of this nonsense where heavy armour brutes are running around like Sonic the Hedgehog on bath salts, and light and medium users would get some of the manoeuvrability they should have to make up for their lack of defence.